| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Naeryndam |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 19:03:56
This is purely my opinion so don't take this as "news". I think there should be a new series on Shade, I mean all these years we keep hearing about Larloch and Ioulaum, and how Halruaa is descended from Netheril. How about a series that coveres Shade trying to rebuild Netheril. Maybe from an ALliance with Halruaa and open an Alliance with Larloch. For all we know Telamont and Larloch may be old buddies. Seriously though, Shade should at least try to recover ancient Netherese artifacts. So far they haven't really accomplished much of anything besides partially melting the High Ice and forming an alliance with Malygris. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| scererar |
Posted - 04 Dec 2005 : 05:40:55
i would be interested in more info on the city of shade, especially after it shifted into the plane of shadow ( I think that is what it is called) Some story lines of how they survived and some of the cities heroes would also be interesting. I was just looking through the siege and right before the palace of the most high, there are 10's of thousands of statues representing the heroes of the shade enclave. Fleshing out a few of these stories would be cool. |
| Darkheyr |
Posted - 29 Nov 2005 : 09:19:53
My main beef with all these obscenely powerful wizard nations/cities is still that it makes very little sense that ANYONE can stand up against them.
Honestly - what good are your 50'000 soldiers with a handful of spellcasters gonna do against the 5000 red wizards of Thay? Or 1000 arcanists ontop their floating city?
All *I* would want about the shades is an explanation about that... Just check out how many wizards the magically well-armed Cormyr could field... |
| Vangelor |
Posted - 29 Nov 2005 : 08:51:55
quote:
Originally posted by Vangelor
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I wouldn't want to see the Shade become something like the drow are now -- a year long focus on the fallen wizards of Shade might grow a little tiresome.
Amen, brother!
I am sure we will see plenty on Shade. It's plainly a Big Thing. Pray it is done well, and not to death.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
In addition to political upheaval, I'd also like to know what the effects of the damaged mythallar are on the city. Can it move at all, now? Can it be repaired? Have there been any attempts to do so?
These are questions I'd want my players to ask, so I could smile enigmatically at them and say, "That does seem to be the question, doesn't it?"
"Epic Magic Gone Wrong" is a recognized subgenre of Tel'Quessir balladry, from the Sundering on down. I've played an elven bard long enough to tell you that it is probably not a good thing. If this goes the way it usually does, the damage can't really be repaired but can be worked around with enough thought, and whoever tried to fix it first is either very cautious, very lucky, divinely protected, or dead. If the city can move, it will probably only stay aloft long enough to land on some innocent people luckless enough to be in the way, rendering the region uninhabitable for generations to come. Naturally, legends will persist of the treasures to be found amidst the smoking ruins, for those bold enough to sieze them...
High Magic is wonderful stuff. But you really, really don't want it to break.
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| Vangelor |
Posted - 29 Nov 2005 : 08:43:01
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I wouldn't want to see the Shade become something like the drow are now -- a year long focus on the fallen wizards of Shade might grow a little tiresome.
Amen, brother!
I am sure we will see plenty on Shade. It's plainly a Big Thing. Pray it is done well, and not to death.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
In addition to political upheaval, I'd also like to know what the effects of the damaged mythallar are on the city. Can it move at all, now? Can it be repaired? Have there been any attempts to do so?
These are questions I'd want my players to ask, so I could smile enigmatically at them and say, "That does seem to be the question, doesn't it?"
Epic Magic Gone Wrong is a recognized subgenre of Tel'Quessir balladry, from the sundering on down. I've played an elven bard long enough to tell you that it is probably not a good thing. If this goes the way it usually does, the damage can't really be repaired but can be worked around with enough thought, and whoever tried to fix it first is either very cautious, very lucky, divinely protected, or dead. If the city can move, it will probably only stay aloft long enough to land on some innocent people unlucky enough to get in the way, rendering the region uninhabitable for generations to come.
High Magic is wonderful stuff. But you really, really don't want it to break.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Nov 2005 : 17:26:58
quote:
Originally posted by Magus Rages
quote:
originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So long as we don't have Selūnarra start doing what the Vorlons did towards the end of that war
Who are the Vorlons? Unheard of and a strange name. Selunarra would do well to stay where they are for now, I doubt they have any special "weapons' to fight the Shadovar.
The Sage had made a Babylon 5 reference, to which I responded in kind. The link he provided does have a lot of information on the race.
quote:
Originally posted by Magus Rages
I admit I agree that no RSEs involving the Shadovar for now(at least until a resonable period of time had passed), for I pity them, their enclave is a ruined hulk and even their leaders and military need a style and face make-over, they look "ridiculous" in their current dressings. (Turns and saw a sneering Shadovar trooper wrapped in bandages and on a wheelchair)
Yeah, they do need to spend some time taking care of home before doing much of anything else.
It is a bit incongruous, at least to me, that they'd spend time in conquest and such when their own homes are falling apart.
quote:
Originally posted by Magus Rages
Alright, a new series on the Shadovar would be ideal, plainly there are a few resonable areas that can be focused on:
1) What were the Shadovars thinking, planning, managing during the final moments of Netheril, example: Are the people running amok, is Telamont berating his sons in a frantic effort to save the enclave. And what happened during the transition to the Shadow Plane through the eyes of the Shadovar Lords and subsequent important events in the Shadow Plane during the 1700 years of exile.
That could make for an interesting novel or trilogy... But WotC seems to stay away from devoting novels to past events in the Realms, so it's not likely to be something we'll see.
After watching years of inactivity in the Dragginglance setting, I can understand their desire to stick to the here-and-now, but it would be nice to have the occasional foray into the past.
quote:
Originally posted by Magus Rages
2) The 700-year War between the Malaugrym and Shadovar, there was a mention by Escanor and Melegaunt that they fought the shapeshifters and it would be good to know how the Shadovar lost/truimphed/draw against the Malaugrym. This war had been a very interesting thought for me, of course, a battle in an odd strange environment is a very new perspective I had been thinking about especially with vast Shadovar armies fighting in the Shadowdeep instead of the usual few lost adventurers.(Surely it won't be called an RSE as it is held in the Shadowdeep.)
Indeed, this is another interesting idea. But I think it will also fall into the "it's in the past, we're not touching it" mentality, unless it's covered in a Shade-specific sourcebook.
quote:
Originally posted by Magus Rages
3) Something about some political upheaval in the enclave, surely the Princes of the enclave and some military officers are fed up of listening to Telamont, plus a map of the whole enclave would be nice.
In addition to political upheaval, I'd also like to know what the effects of the damaged mythallar are on the city. Can it move at all, now? Can it be repaired? Have there been any attempts to do so?
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| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Nov 2005 : 14:02:47
quote:
Originally posted by Magus Rages
quote:
originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So long as we don't have Selūnarra start doing what the Vorlons did towards the end of that war
Who are the Vorlons? Unheard of and a strange name. Selunarra would do well to stay where they are for now, I doubt they have any special "weapons' to fight the Shadovar.
The Vorlons are an alien species from the science-fiction series Babylon 5. They were mostly known for their highly secretive and manipulative ways.
The Grand Wiki has more:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorlons
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| Magus Rages |
Posted - 28 Nov 2005 : 12:34:31
quote:
originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So long as we don't have Selūnarra start doing what the Vorlons did towards the end of that war
Who are the Vorlons? Unheard of and a strange name. Selunarra would do well to stay where they are for now, I doubt they have any special "weapons' to fight the Shadovar.
I admit I agree that no RSEs involving the Shadovar for now(at least until a resonable period of time had passed), for I pity them, their enclave is a ruined hulk and even their leaders and military need a style and face make-over, they look "ridiculous" in their current dressings. (Turns and saw a sneering Shadovar trooper wrapped in bandages and on a wheelchair)
Alright, a new series on the Shadovar would be ideal, plainly there are a few resonable areas that can be focused on:
1) What were the Shadovars thinking, planning, managing during the final moments of Netheril, example: Are the people running amok, is Telamont berating his sons in a frantic effort to save the enclave. And what happened during the transition to the Shadow Plane through the eyes of the Shadovar Lords and subsequent important events in the Shadow Plane during the 1700 years of exile.
2) The 700-year War between the Malaugrym and Shadovar, there was a mention by Escanor and Melegaunt that they fought the shapeshifters and it would be good to know how the Shadovar lost/truimphed/draw against the Malaugrym. This war had been a very interesting thought for me, of course, a battle in an odd strange environment is a very new perspective I had been thinking about especially with vast Shadovar armies fighting in the Shadowdeep instead of the usual few lost adventurers.(Surely it won't be called an RSE as it is held in the Shadowdeep.)
3) Something about some political upheaval in the enclave, surely the Princes of the enclave and some military officers are fed up of listening to Telamont, plus a map of the whole enclave would be nice.
4) It is well known the Shadovar is digging for their toys, so it would good to see how the Shadovar "con" the usual adventurers into braving hazards to get their toys while the Shadovar plan something in their sleeves. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 03:49:15
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I trust Paul to handle the Shadovar well, and not just turn them into a rampaging force across the face of Faerun.
As am I.
Paul has shown us that he can handle the subtleties that come with exploring potentially powerful characters and themes -- I offer the Erevis Cale books as an example of Paul's fine work. And with the Shade, I look forward to seeing how they develop under his attention.
quote:
And one aspect I don't think has been fully explored is this . . . these are powerful, selfish, arrogant wizards. How long before either a group of arcanists outside of the Royal family acts against the royal family, or Telemont's sons start thinking that perhaps they could do things better than their father?
This is an interesting point. It's important to remember the arcane roots of the Shadovar, and I think this quickly gets overlooked when their more recent activities as "conquerors" come into play.
If the future attention they receive is something on their "arcane-ness" rather than just their intentions for the return of a Shade Dominion... I'll be happy.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 03:14:16
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
To use a SW analogy, I think the Shade work better when they are portrayed like the Sith during the Prequels. Or for those of us who are B5 fans -- like the Shadows just before the war -- secretly, subtle, and behind the scenes.
It's when they start acting openly that the potential for "overuse" becomes a reality.
I like the Shadows idea... So long as we don't have Selūnarra start doing what the Vorlons did towards the end of that war...  |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 03:09:44
I really like the Shadovar as enemies, especially with the whole looking for lost Netherese items and tracing lost Netherese bloodlines ideas. These are subtle things that you can work into a campaign, and they make for good villains (just describe them to your players sometime and watch how they react . . . they litterally exude evil), and I am glad that no author until now has made them a major focus (and I liked the low key presense they had in Mistress of the Night).
When I first read the ROTAW books, I was afraid that the Shadovar were going to take over all the villainous spots in Faerun, much like Cyric became THE evil god after the Avatar trilogy. Thankfully, having their Mythallar damaged, having the Chosen infiltrate their own city and kill some of their princes (even if they appear to have returned), and loosing the Karsestone seems to have made them think that they need to get a better handle on what the Realms are really like now, and to shore up "Old Netheril" before they go on their conquering spree.
I trust Paul to handle the Shadovar well, and not just turn them into a rampaging force across the face of Faerun. And one aspect I don't think has been fully explored is this . . . these are powerful, selfish, arrogant wizards. How long before either a group of arcanists outside of the Royal family acts against the royal family, or Telemont's sons start thinking that perhaps they could do things better than their father? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 01:36:35
To use a SW analogy, I think the Shade work better when they are portrayed like the Sith during the Prequels. Or for those of us who are B5 fans -- like the Shadows just before the war -- secretly, subtle, and behind the scenes.
It's when they start acting openly that the potential for "overuse" becomes a reality.
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| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 01:14:33
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I wouldn't mind seeing more of Shade... So long as it wasn't an RSE and someone other than Denning was writing it. 
Agreed.
Additionally, I wouldn't want to see the Shade become something like the drow are now -- a year long focus on the fallen wizards of Shade might grow a little tiresome.
Agreed on both points - there are some advantages with having Shade involved in some underhanded dealings. In one of my campaigns, they are trying to spread through the caverns because Shar has taken over that portfolio.
C-Fb |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 00:37:39
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I wouldn't mind seeing more of Shade... So long as it wasn't an RSE and someone other than Denning was writing it.
Agreed.
Additionally, I wouldn't want to see the Shade become something like the drow are now -- a year long focus on the fallen wizards of Shade might grow a little tiresome.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 20:26:02
I wouldn't mind seeing more of Shade... So long as it wasn't an RSE and someone other than Denning was writing it. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 19:30:59
quote:
originally posted by Paul S Kemp
Second, "The Twilight War" will pick up some threads established in "Midnight's Mask" (the third and final book of the first Cale trilogy) and will feature the surviving characters from that book (as well as some others). It will also feature the Shadovar of Thultanthar and events of significance for all of the Realms. Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to say much else at this time. Careful readers and loremasters of the Realms will no doubt deduce some things from "Midnight's Mask," when it is released in November.
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