| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Thelonius |
Posted - 04 Oct 2005 : 13:41:46
I've just read about the "Kingdom Come" and I am thinking of doing that based in the Realms as a campaign..., for those that don't know what it is, is about a battle bewteen superheroes, just as Superman, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel,.... that ends with the death of the most part of them after a cataclysm. If a similar struggle happened in the realms, for some odd reason, Elminster, Khelben, Laeral, Drizzt... against Tam, Fzoul, Kymil Nimesin, Manshoon,... I am talking in a great scale struggle, (I know that people as Fzoul, Jarlaxle, or Manshoon would never get involved in such a battle but let's imagine...)How would this affect to the Realms, what consequences would this have in the order stablished, and, would this affect the magic in a deep way and if some of you want to imagine, who of them would survive? |
| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 09 Oct 2005 : 01:35:20
Why thank you Steven . . . I'm truly honored. |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 08 Oct 2005 : 17:52:27
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Of course, as with all things that I equate, I can see Khelbun and his Moonstars acting much the same was Batman did with his subversive group of "riding the fence" super heroes.
PERFECT analogy there.....and now I want to go back and reread Kingdom Come, despite having no time and needing to go sharpen the revision for BLACKSTAFF that's imminently due on Phil Athans' desk....
SES |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Oct 2005 : 17:47:27
quote:
Originally posted by Beirnadri Magranth
about the loss of fzoul or manshoon.... no big deal semmemon would rightfully succeed them.
I'm not so sure about that, now. He's a free agent now. He might prefer to keep things that way... |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 06 Oct 2005 : 17:14:19
also-
spider mans dark twin thing is called Venom
i believe. im not a fan nor have ever been a fan of comics though so i dont know
i also agree that the wizards lords of Faerun are not held in the same we as the super heroes bc alot of minor people can access magic too whereas superheroes were the only ones to have any super power at all.
about the loss of fzoul or manshoon.... no big deal semmemon would rightfully succeed them. |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 06 Oct 2005 : 17:05:14
quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius
I've just read about the "Kingdom Come" and I am thinking of doing that based in the Realms as a campaign..., for those that don't know what it is, is about a battle bewteen superheroes, just as Superman, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel,.... that ends with the death of the most part of them after a cataclysm. If a similar struggle happened in the realms, for some odd reason, Elminster, Khelben, Laeral, Drizzt... against Tam, Fzoul, Kymil Nimesin, Manshoon,... I am talking in a great scale struggle, (I know that people as Fzoul, Jarlaxle, or Manshoon would never get involved in such a battle but let's imagine...)How would this affect to the Realms, what consequences would this have in the order stablished, and, would this affect the magic in a deep way and if some of you want to imagine, who of them would survive?
this reminded me of the return of the archmages series, where khelben, and elminster actually fight in the books... it seems to me fo all the power that these archmages have... they still run out of spells and can be beaten. One of my favorite scenes in a series was the battling of Gromph baenre against the agrach dyr lichdrow. Gromph is the most powerful wizard in teh city but is beaten by agrach dyr!
this being said i think it applies to elminster etc. too.
there are more powerful wizards than elminster in faerun!
-Larloc
-the lichkings of Oreme
-and many other powerful forgotten archmages (liches mostly... and some from netheril)
I havent finished the archmages series so i dont know how the shadow lords of the city shade fare against elminster etc. but they would probably wreak some havoc using their shadow magic!
the question really is... who would think to cast disjunction?
disjunction is one of the best spells in a wizard duel/spell battle .  |
| Thelonius |
Posted - 06 Oct 2005 : 13:49:44
I know that the battle in Kingdom come is between "old heroes" and "newbies", but I think that would be interesting to see it in a good vs evil battle, I will create some scrolls that allow the players to know how the battle went, I mean wich heroes and bad guys took part on it, the actions of them, and the survivors... And I am thinking in the appearence of Errtu too, who will problably fall against Drizzt, who will fall agains the Balor... It still leaves me with the doubt of what to do with Cattie-Brie and Wulfgar though and who will be the one making the last sacrifice just as Captain Marvel... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Oct 2005 : 04:51:30
quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
  Many Thanks, Shadovar... I am familiar with the Simbul, but, as the Chosen are not a big interest of mine I had never heard her called by that name. I am very embarrased, as I should have been able to figure that out regardless! Thank you for your patience! In what book is she first called by that name? Thanks!
Hmm...maybe try reading the Simbul's Gift( a old novel) and check page 201 of the FRCS, the answer is there.
I believe that the 2E sourcebook The Seven Sisters was the first one to give the proper names of all the Sisters. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 06 Oct 2005 : 02:01:41
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
Many Thanks, Shadovar... I am familiar with the Simbul, but, as the Chosen are not a big interest of mine I had never heard her called by that name. I am very embarrased, as I should have been able to figure that out regardless! Thank you for your patience! In what book is she first called by that name? Thanks!
Hmm...maybe try reading the Simbul's Gift( a old novel) and check page 201 of the FRCS, the answer is there. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 06 Oct 2005 : 01:19:40
Nope, its the one where all of the old established people, like Superman, Batman, and Wonderwoman, are all retired, and "young punk" super heroes, their leader a thinly veiled version of Marvel's Cable, are running amok. The "young punks" have no compunction against killing, or even killing innocents as long as they "do more harm than good." Oh, and Captain Atom gets a rupture and goes nuclear and blows away Kansas . . .
Its a pretty good story. I do think you are thinking of one of the "Infinity" series. That one freaky multiarmed Spider Man clone . . . what the heck was the name of that thing? |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 06 Oct 2005 : 01:07:55
Hey KEJR - what was that one comic war where everyone had like a dark clone made of them? All that is coming to my mind is the Infinity War, but I know that's not it.
Could you imagine an evil Elmister? Or a naughty Storm... oh wait, you know what I mean.
C-Fb |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 06 Oct 2005 : 01:04:10
Oh, one more thing to throw out there. The real conflict in Kingdom Come wasn't between the old supervillains of the DC Universe. With the exception of Lex, most of them were pretty well either washed up or under Lex's thumb. The conflict was between the "new breed" of "hero" that beleived the ends justified the means and that they deserved special status and exceptions from the laws and rules of society becuase they fought "bad guys," and the "old guard" like Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and the like, who beleived that as heroes they had to hold themselves to a higher standard.
The conflict in the Realms then would be with up and coming adventurers and the "old guard." Actually, it does kind of remind me of the kind of adventurers that people on certain boards play that are fifteen different classes and 50th level and claim to want to get rid of Elminster and Khelbun and really run things the right way.
Of course, as with all things that I equate, I can see Khelbun and his Moonstars acting much the same was Batman did with his subversive group of "riding the fence" super heroes.
Yeah, once I get warmed up I can't help myself. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 06 Oct 2005 : 00:57:13
Wow . . . for being the one that usually equates everything with comics and ties them into epic comic story lines, I'm at a loss. Maybe its becuase I don't think that all of the major NPCs in the Realms are seen the same way the superheroes were in Kingdom Come. Part of the point of Kingdom Come was that the common people started to see superheroes almost as gods, and started to accept anything they did as morally right. Then when the old guard passed out of fashion, the newer "grim and gritty" heroes started pushing the envelope more and more, until there were almost no rules for "supers" and and the common person lived in absolute fear of them, rather than looking up to them. The "old guard" was so far removed that they couldn't relate anymore, and still considered whatever they did to be "the right thing" even without consulting the "commoners" that their decicions would affect. Long story short, it led to disaster and the superheroes had to admit that they were human and the common person had to take responsibility for their actions.
I have a hard time putting the Realms in the same frame of mind. I know its probably shocking, since I tried to equate the Crisis on Infinate Earths with retconned cosmology, but I don't think most people think of famous NPCs as infallible. Even the Chosen are often viewed with as much fear as with awe. And unlike those of us here and now, and the common man in the story, the average Realmsian hasn't lived with a few hundred years of democracy so that they even feel that they might have a stake in the greater destiny of the world.
Dispite all of that, it sure was fun to posit all of that. Still a fun topic to at least try to wrap my brain around. Thanks for bringing it up! |
| ShadowJack |
Posted - 05 Oct 2005 : 19:10:29
Many Thanks, Shadovar... I am familiar with the Simbul, but, as the Chosen are not a big interest of mine I had never heard her called by that name. I am very embarrased, as I should have been able to figure that out regardless! Thank you for your patience! In what book is she first called by that name? Thanks! |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 05 Oct 2005 : 13:34:41
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
Shadovar,
pray tell me, kind sir, Who is Alassra Silverhand and how is she connected to Zzass Tam?
Alassra Silverhand or some called her as Alassra Shentrantra is known as the Famous Simbul or The Witch-Queen of Aglarond in the east of the Sea of Fallen Stars. She is a stiff strong opponent of the Red Wizards of Thay and the Zulkirs of Thay including Zulkir Szass Tam, Zulkir of Necromancy. |
| ShadowJack |
Posted - 05 Oct 2005 : 13:24:18
Shadovar,
pray tell me, kind sir, Who is Alassra Silverhand and how is she connected to Zzass Tam? |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 05 Oct 2005 : 03:27:32
Hmmm....interesting and a thinking question this is I say.
Szass Tam is constantly involved in Thayan And Red Wizard politics too much to bother with foreign affairs, but if Szass Tam were really to be vanquished assuming his phylactery is smashed, then the first thing that will happen is Revolution in the Red Wizard ranks, all the Zulkirs will be fighting each other for Szass Tam property and for his position as well. I expect some kind of major upheaval in Thay, with big street spell battles, for Szass Tam was never a popular lich in the Red Wizards anyway. Unlikely to affect the Realms much except for Thay and of course, much to the joy and celebration of Alassra Silverhand.
Manshoon fall? Manshoon always return somehow, but recently, his importance in the Zhents' leadership seemed to have diminished. So his loss is no big deal to the Zhents, but a relief or temporary reprieve for Manshoon's foes. The Zhents are unlikely to squabble for Manshoon's position. Fzoul loss, will cause a big uproar in the Zhents' ranks, there will be a major "revamp" or inter-fighting in the Zhentarim if Fzoul really perishes, but Cyricists may move in to take command once the Leading Banite dies, and maybe the Zhentarim will again be under the Cyricists once again. A big problem to the Realms with Cyricists in command of the Zhents, who knows there will be mass scale murders everywhere in the Realms for the Cyricists proclaims to be fighting and killing the Enemies of Cyric, and Cyricists never bat an eye about killing who.
Kymil Nimesin? His loss would avenge those who were wronged by him, no big deal to the elves. His loss would just benefit the realms and the elves, at least a insidious elf is removed and no longer a threat to the Elves and Evermeet.
Loss of the Chosen....I think the loss of the Chosen would only temporaily cause an unbalance in the Balance of Powers in the Realms, of course, enemies of the Chosen would rejoice at the fact, I assume places where the Chosen lived will be the first to be assaulted and invaded just for revenge and maybe desecrate the homes of the Chosen, of course this is a no good news for the Realms. But Mystra would very likely replace those fallen Chosen with new Chosen instead.
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| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 04 Oct 2005 : 15:42:32
Well, it would affect the Realms by taking some of the people that basically hodl many empires together. With Tam and Fzoul gone, Zhentil Keep and Thay might spiral out of countrol - Manshoon disappearing would cause less of a disturbance. Kymil Nemisin's disappearance would make all Elves rejoice! :)
The chosen, along with their allies - that would just take the moral from a lot of places. The Silver Marches would survive, but may be a bit grim for awhile. Shadowdale would probably drop dead of sadness. Not many would be affected by Drizzt's death, but Bruenor's would cause a power vacuum.
I don't think magic would be affected to majorly - after all, Mystra would still be around, albeit weakened. She would probably just have to inhabit a new half-elf. 
Who would survive? Qilue - the rest of the chosen are noble enough to sacrifice themselves for surface dwellers - and not saying Qilue is not noble, but she might not even have a chance to get involved. And I believe both Tam and Manshoon would survive. They, I believe, are crafty enough to survive a lot!
C-Fb |
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