| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 18:29:33
Alright, anyone that pays attention to my post can probably pick out my misspent youth reading comic books, and they have had at least a little bit of an influence on how I view other fantasy settings.
That having been said, does anyone know of any lost city intelligent monkey (ape) type cities in the Realms, you know, like Gorilla Grod from Flash and his city (okay, to look more worldly, like all those degenerate nearly intelligent apes that lived in lost cities in Robert E Howards stuff . . . except they can talk and are smarter than you).
Obviously there are some places for them in the Realms, but have any actually ever been mentioned? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 19:02:07
EXCELLENT!
I am so book-marking this thread. 
Edit: I just found another variant that is most certainly native to the Realms - the Su-Monster.
Several made an appearance in one of the Cleric Quintet novels. |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 12:24:05
Well-done, Icelander! Impressive!  |
| Icelander |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 12:18:03
I kept expecting this thread to lead into a lecture by the Sage of Shadowdale, beginning something like this:
"Ye're seeking lore on intelligent monkeys walking Faerûn? Are ye sure 'tis not merely information about Volo ye seek, traveller?
Nay, ye mean genuinely gibbering apes who walk and talk and are smarter than ye, ye say? Still sounds something like Volo, except for the part about great intelligence, but ye'll know best, of course.
Apart from the obvious wizards' familiars and strange beings from other planes, many of whom can take on the form of ape-like creatures if they please, Faerûn has its share of fireside tales of a long-lost City of Apes. Rich in gold, gems or magic; the way most lost cities tend to be when the ale is good, the fire is crackling and the audience is gullible.
The kind of tales told among folk who have seldom travelled further than the next town for a trade fair tend to place it somewhere in Chult, the place most people think of when they hear jungle mentioned, but wise folk who have been there say that while the Chultan jungles conceal many secrets, what lost cities there are are more apt to be serpentine in their architecture than filled with gibbering primates, if ye catch my drift.
More credible are tales which place the mythical City of the Apes within the Tashalar, but I've heard no whisper of these legends from the natives themselves, which places them in some doubt. Rather, when the Tashalars speak of a City of Apes, they'll place it within the mysterious land of Samarach.
According to them, it's ruled by a silverback gorilla of monstrous size and frightening intelligence, who can command strange magic of the mind. The jungle around the city is patrolled by warlike bands of apes who kill every explorer who might discover the secrets of the Ape King or plunder his fantastic wealth, gleaned from the diamond mines his people worked for the Shoon Imperium in ancient days..." |
| Quale |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 10:35:33
not in FR, but what about Spirit of the Air |
| Markustay |
Posted - 27 Jul 2008 : 19:47:18
Well, the topic is still there, it's just gotten a wee bit muddled. Talking about intelligent simians in FR naturally leads to the only canon god for them we have in FR, Monkey (or Mad Monkey, although IIRC that was his avatar).
Anyhow, as part of the topic I presented my take on the enigmatic Monkey, and Wooly was giving me suggestions on how to properly... equip... him...
Okay... I'll stop. 
But the subject was there... somewhere... 
Back to the original topic - is there any mention of other Ape species - intelligent or not - in FR? Maybe those four-armed ones, or 1e's Blood Apes?  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Jul 2008 : 18:34:42
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm sure there was a topic here somewhere.
There was. We're ignoring it.
... Actually, Sage does have a point, as much as I hate to admit it...  |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Jul 2008 : 17:07:36
I'm sure there was a topic here somewhere. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Jul 2008 : 16:53:17
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Yes... I looked up Kokopelli after that post...
Since when is 'Well Endowed' a godly attribute? 
A blessing, maybe.....
Not just well-endowed... It was detachable. I'm thinking that the ability to have sex without being there is pretty special. Pretty odd, too, but some of the gods have always been weirdos.
And think of all the trouble Zeus could have avoided with Hera, if he'd been similarly equipped. "I couldn't have gotten her pregnant, dear, I was with you the whole time!" |
| Markustay |
Posted - 27 Jul 2008 : 16:38:20
Yes... I looked up Kokopelli after that post...
Since when is 'Well Endowed' a godly attribute?
A blessing, maybe..... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Jul 2008 : 06:24:40
It actually depends on the mythology... Some of the myths have Coyote as a benefactor of mankind, and some actually have him as the creator of man! Most versions of Coyote that I've read about have him being mischeivous mostly for the fun of it, but also sometimes to teach a lesson.
Kokopelli is also a Trickster, and a fertility god... According to the myths, that tune by King Missile applied to him -- and he took full advantage of it. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 27 Jul 2008 : 04:36:55
I used to think Coyote at first as well, but then when I checked their entries in the original DD (first printing), Coyote comes off as a bit of a 'bastard', if you know what I mean.
Whereas Raven plays tricks for fun and to teach lessons, Coyote is kinda mean about it.
Monkey never struck me as mean - but he can be vengeful if you cross him.
I'll have to look up this "Kokopelli" - thanks for the heads-up. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Jul 2008 : 04:08:54
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Pretty Much, but he is also very similar to the American-Indian trickster god Raven (which I am placing as one of his aliases).
Raven? Bah! Coyote and Kokopelli were better! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 22:42:22
Pretty Much, but he is also very similar to the American-Indian trickster god Raven (which I am placing as one of his aliases).
On some levels, he is almost all-powerful, yet on others, he seems to be only as powerful as a mortal.
If you've ever read the Wellworld series of novels, I'm picturing him being similar to Nathan Brazil, the wandering Jew (or perhaps even the character Gypsy, from the same series, who was even more of a conundrum then Nathan himself). He is a being so incredibly ancient he pre-dates the universe, and he is basically bored out of his mind (which is why he is so entertained by new and unuasual things). |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 22:34:07
so mad monkey is the realms version of the monkey king?? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 22:04:53
Thanks - the lore surrounding Monkey varies from source to source, as does his 'divine rank' - he has been referenced as everything from a 'Greater Spirit' to a demi-god, all the way on up to a Greater Power. Rather then nailing him down and over-writing some of the existing canon stuff, I decided to present him as something of an 'enigma' - something outside of the normal rules of the Gods or even the Universe.
I'm not sure Ao even knows just what the Hell he really is. |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 21:56:41
Great dialogue between Ao & Monkey, MT! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 18:29:01
There's also a Dire Wereape Ogre down in the Shining South. |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 09:57:00
I was going to suggest the Beast of Malar, but afaik it doesnt have an ape form.
although it could....... |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 09:27:12
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
The Forgotten Realms Monstrous Compendium pages also list the Monkey Spider (that's the correct word order).
I went with the word order from the first volume of the Realms Bestiary by Eric L. Boyd and Thomas M. Costa. I like it better; "monkey spider" sounds like a spider that's associated with monkeys.
Yep. The "spider monkey" is just a third edition version of the monkey spider -- with updated stats and its name order switched. The original order reflects the fact that they were believed to be spiders until someone took the trouble to actually look at them (and presumably counted their legs!).
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| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 06:45:34
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Markustay, I think Monkey lives wherever Monkey wants to live! Just in case you missed it, here's a (painfully obvious, in retrospect) reference (SPOILER!): in the Mad Monkey module, the teacher is Monkey! I think that I have only looked at it once or twice since I first downloaded it, because my players haven't reached the "Far" East yet.
Monkey comes and goes where Monkey wants, but his lair is fully written up in The Horde boxed set.
This is an excerpt from my Kara-Tur Netbook project concerning the enigmatic Monkey. I posted it awhile back on the WotC boards - it works as an 'Intro' to the Deities section of the book -
Somewhere, in a place outside of time, a meeting occurs…
Ao had gathered together all of the powers represented in Realmspace. After much deliberation, he let his edict be known. The Gods of Faerûn would be cast out of the Heavens, and would be made to walk upon the green world of Toril as mortals do. Such was his ruling, and so it was passed, and the powers of the Faerûnian Pantheon were removed from the chamber (if such a place could be described thusly) to meet out his sentence. He cast his gaze about, at the various members of the other human pantheons. “I am sorry; although you do know wrong I must pass this judgment upon thee as well. Think it not a punishment; for the others have gone before thee, and although their might is greatly diminished, still they possess power anon to bring much suffering to thine own followers. Go now, so as to protect your people.” Fate, Maztica, and the Celestial Emperor (amongst others) simply bowed their heads, excepting judgment, and then they and their troupe also vanished. Turning to the non-human pantheons, he saw smug expressions on several faces. “Do not think that ye hath avoided their fate, for you too shall be sent to the world, until such a time when all have learned of humility”. Both Gruumsh and Moradin shot from their seats, but it was the clear, regal voice of Corellon Larethian that cut through the din. “You have NO right….” he began, but Ao merely arched his eyebrow in response and interrupted him. “No RIGHT? By the Ancient Accords I have EVERY RIGHT!” his voice booming off the walls of the extra-dimensional chamber. “You will each provide me with a manifestation, and then retire the remainder of your being to your own domains. The manifestations will be sent amongst your followers, and you will know what it is like to live as they. The core of your being will still be able to access any other worshippers you may have elsewhere, but all conduits, gates, portals, and connections from your realms to Abeir-Toril will be severed until further notice; and know ye this – if anyone of you attempts to enter within 100 Kilometers of the planet’s surface, I will hold you in violation of The Accords!” Opening his mouth, it looked as if Corellon was about to speak again, but Ao once again interrupted him. “And if ANY of you deem this unfair… I will simply summon the tribunal…”, and with those few words all murmuring in the room ceased. One by one, the leaders of each pantheon bowed their heads in acquiescence and disappeared. Looking about, Ao saw that there were only two beings remaining in Cynosure. Looking at the one seated in close proximity to where the Celestial Bureaucracy once stood, he addressed him, “And why are YOU still here?”. The furry, amused looking fellow got up and stated flatly “This whole thing sounds boring, and I don’t DO boring”. If Ao had a physical body, his face would have turned red with rage. “YOU DARE?!” he boomed, the very ground and walls quaking with the sound. “You will relinquish your power to me at once and travel to Toril with the others…”. The being known simply as Mad Monkey, looking around at the still quivering domain, turned to Ao. The corner of his mouth was pulled up in an amused smile, and with a snap of his fingers he stated flatly “no”, and with that he too vanished. Ao continued to stare at the spot Monkey last stood, his eyes narrowing. Suddenly Ptah, the sole remaining power in the room other the Ao, spoke “You are going to have big problems with that one, old friend”. Staring deep into the twin pools of infinite blackness that were the eyes of Ptah, Ao allowed his face a sad smile “Aye”. Ptah chuckled ruefully and faded from sight. Shaking his head wistfully, Ao made to go back to the business of ruling reality. Turning one last time to the spot Monkey had stood defiantly, he whispered “Aye… indeed”.
A bit over-the-top, but I wanted to capture folks attention when I detailed the Celestial Beauracracey (and yes, Ao does sound a wee bit too much like Elminster).
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 02:49:09
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
The Forgotten Realms Monstrous Compendium pages also list the Monkey Spider (that's the correct word order).
I went with the word order from the first volume of the Realms Bestiary by Eric L. Boyd and Thomas M. Costa. I like it better; "monkey spider" sounds like a spider that's associated with monkeys. |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 22:31:01
Markustay, I think Monkey lives wherever Monkey wants to live! Just in case you missed it, here's a (painfully obvious, in retrospect) reference (SPOILER!): in the Mad Monkey module, the teacher is Monkey! I think that I have only looked at it once or twice since I first downloaded it, because my players haven't reached the "Far" East yet.
The Forgotten Realms Monstrous Compendium pages also list the Monkey Spider (that's the correct word order). I apologize if someone already mentioned it, but I'm using Quick Reply and earlier posts aren't displayed. They are more intelligent than grommam and form sophisticated (frequently criminal) societies. They don't have any "lost cities" -- well, maybe they do, but they themselves have only been "discovered" so recently that I'm sure no humanoids have bothered to investigate. It would be fun -- for the DM, at least! -- to have the PCs set out in search of some "lost city," only to discover after many perilous adventures that it is scaled to fit Monkey Spiders, which is to say that the largest monuments would be about the same size as we put in fish tanks for decorations, and the largest coins and gems would be as small as sequins, all but worthless to Medium humanoids. In the alternative, if the PCs have glasses of minute seeing or some such thing, they may discover that someone's fish tank decorations are covered with intricate writing and bas-reliefs too fine to have been carved as mere aquarium decor; if they decipher the writing they realize that it is part of a much larger structure, and curiosity may compel them to search for the rest, especially if they can be convinced that the "decorations" were shrunken from larger size.
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| Markustay |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 04:30:06
Interesting... this gives me a connection between Monkey and Thoth to play around with.
Considering where Monkey lives (on the old Imaskari border), I'm sure I can work with this.
Thanks. |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 01:44:49
No problem, Jamallo!
If I ever run an Old Empires campaign, baboons of Thoth will make appearances. They seem much cooler than ibises....
But I would enjoy seeing an enclave in serpent-ridden Chult environs, too. |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 01:06:08
Thanks. I'll check it out.
The baboon was definitely associated with Thoth. As a baboon he was sometimes portrayed sitting atop the scale which weighed the heart of the dead, acting as what we might call "court reporter;" ibis-headed he would stand beside it.
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| monknwildcat |
Posted - 24 Jul 2008 : 21:29:35
Jamallo: One of my players was an Egypt fanboy and wanted to switch the ibis form of the Divine Servitor PrC for a baboon form. The A'an/Aani role associated with Thoth was his justification. I'm no Egyptologist, so I cannot vouch for his work, but when the 1E Old Empires sourcebook had baboons associated with Thoth, I letit ride.
I don't have access to primary sources, and the only info about A'an or Aani I found via googling was Wikipedia's article for "Thoth" citing older (like 1960's) secondary sources and for "Aani" citing 19th century secondary sources.
That's the best I've got, Jamallo. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Jul 2008 : 19:45:37
That's right! I forgot I had the Taer on my list as well (as an evil off-shoot of the Hsing-sing of Kara-Tur! It's been awhile since I looked over all my notes...
@Jamallo Kreen - I mentioned the RH basis for my 'Man-Apes' (the 'cursed men'). I was planning on using the mechanics from Conan.
They pretty much look just like the Planet of the Apes guys, hidden away in their secret city for untold milennia, after being Cursed by Monkey. |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 24 Jul 2008 : 10:46:51
the TAer's from UE
http://wizards.com/dnd/images/ue_gallery/49899.jpg
the dude throwing the finger to the gnoll.
and what ever this dude is
http://wizards.com/dnd/images/ue_gallery/49897.jpg
the only FR apelike intelligent creatures i know of.
they would be more or less normadic
whoa monkey king race in that OA pic |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 24 Jul 2008 : 10:17:01
If I ever needed proof that synchronicity is a real force in the universe, this is it: What was Monkey Magic all about? Prepare to be astonished.
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| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 24 Jul 2008 : 03:23:01
quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
My apologies for the thread necromancy, but I wanted to put this out there while it was in my thoughts.
Thoth, IRL, had an incarnation as A'an, a baboon associated with judging the dead and balance. I can't remember the exact relationship between Mulhorand's Set and the serpent deities, but, if Set is Sseth or related to the whomever the yuan-ti currently venerate, perhaps Thoth would take an interest in sentient apes, or just their baboon subgroup, to balance Set.
Baboons are much smaller than gorillas, though, and, subsequently, less cool. :)
monknwidcat, where did you find the reference to "A'an"? I am not familiar with it.
Markustay, you may want to look at the man-apes in the Conan RPG. Robert E. Howard had an ... unhealthy ... obsession with man-apes and ape-men (e.g. "Rogues in the House").
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