| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 11 Jun 2005 : 22:41:47
On Paizo's Dragon Magazine Site there is a discussion thread about weather the Forgotten Realms is a dying game world. Rather than bring my fellow scribes in on a "praise the Realms" session I am curious to know of anyone actually has a good idea of how the Realms products are selling.
I know during the TSR days FR carried the company. I know the novels don't sell like they once did, but that is due to outside fantasy fiction growing, not becuase Eberron, DragonLance, or Greyhawk fiction is doing better. I also would be surprised that the FR books would get the deluxe treatment that they do if the sales were on the downslide (rather, they know a lot of us are willing to pay a little more for our Realms books than for standard D&D core books). I also beleive that RAS is still selling like a Thayan in the Scardale bazaar.
So I guess what I am wondering is has anyone heard anything hard and fast about the Realms in comparison to Core, Eberron, DragonLance, etc? I am curious to know if this thread is truly representative or if this is just the case of someone that prefers the newer settings to the older ones and wants to be the first to ring the death knell.
The thread can be found here: http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/dragon/generalDiscussion/isTheForgottenRealmsADyingGameWorld |
| 28 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Faraer |
Posted - 17 Jun 2005 : 16:32:15
Well, I posted. It was more positive than I expected because when I tried to write out equivocations, the problems I suspect the Realms publishing program has now and in the future seemed mostly just as purely speculative as the doom posts, even if likely more accurate. |
| Dracandos the Spellsage |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 18:03:32
quote:
Originally posted by GreatDrake
I think it's amusing, and kind of sad, that everyone jumped on Drac for the comment that he downloads anything he can find. I, at first, thought he meant realms lore like what is found here. Or the freebies on the WoTC site.
Could he not of meant that? No wonder he got defensive, with people attacking him based on that one comment that could have misinterpreted. A better post would have been "I hope that you don't mean downloading it illegaly?". I always wait for clarity on such things, because look at what this turned into, an attack, a retort, counter-retort. Basically the sort of thing you don't want to see, and something that could turn very nasty. And I think Drac said he hasn't downloaded any books illegaly, which is what the arguement was. But then people continued to attack him. Apparently the integrity of the people over 28 who don't download anything doesn't extend to being civil on the forums. I for one took offense to that attack on my generation, and agree that there are probably just as many over 28 illegal downloaders as there are under. Where are the statistics proving otherwise?
By the way, every realms book I have is bought, and I've never downloaded anything illegaly off the internet, that's including music. I do, however, do the ipod thing and purchase songs off of there. I also download a lot of the free realms material that is available on the net, whenever I can.
My thanks for the assist. However I shall leave this discussion as Alaundo ordered |
| Chosen of Moradin |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 14:04:33
Well, good gentlemen, let´s go back to the topic, as Big Al sugets, eh? 
I reallys stay anoyed by that statement, and don´t find inner peace until I put a reply in the Paizo´s thread. Because to me, and to us here in Brazil, that statement sounds purely as a joke, nothing more than a joke. I´m not talking this because I´m a FR fan, it´s serious, but because I´m here (in rpg) since the old and bitter "brazilian" beggining (too few books - with too high prices!  ; too few spec. magazines; too few players, and so...). And, since that time, FR have gained a special ground in brazilian hearts. Oh, we love the other " old TSR" settings, too. Dark Sun, Planescape, DLance (I´m a DM of these), Birthright, Ravenloft (specially Ravenloft, the only one with so good sales as FR). And mind it, I´m talking about 2nd Edition!!! Now, with the D&D 3rd Edition, we have a great space for FR (and Ravenloft) here. DLance is coming, too, with translated books this year (beyond some interesting brazilian settings - some good, some bad, and some - very - ugly...). Here, I don´t know no D&D group that is, in the worst, fond of FR.
And, after all of this, hear that FR is a "dying setting"... really, that is a joke. I don´t believe in any other thing about it...   |
| GreatDrake |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 11:32:08
I think it's amusing, and kind of sad, that everyone jumped on Drac for the comment that he downloads anything he can find. I, at first, thought he meant realms lore like what is found here. Or the freebies on the WoTC site.
Could he not of meant that? No wonder he got defensive, with people attacking him based on that one comment that could have misinterpreted. A better post would have been "I hope that you don't mean downloading it illegaly?". I always wait for clarity on such things, because look at what this turned into, an attack, a retort, counter-retort. Basically the sort of thing you don't want to see, and something that could turn very nasty. And I think Drac said he hasn't downloaded any books illegaly, which is what the arguement was. But then people continued to attack him. Apparently the integrity of the people over 28 who don't download anything doesn't extend to being civil on the forums. I for one took offense to that attack on my generation, and agree that there are probably just as many over 28 illegal downloaders as there are under. Where are the statistics proving otherwise?
By the way, every realms book I have is bought, and I've never downloaded anything illegaly off the internet, that's including music. I do, however, do the ipod thing and purchase songs off of there. I also download a lot of the free realms material that is available on the net, whenever I can. |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 08:46:18
Well met
Hmmmm, let us leave this discussion here. We at Candlekeep certainly don't approve of downloading material here, and any suggestions to do so will be removed.
|
| Dracandos the Spellsage |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 06:58:40
That wasnt an excuse, it was my reasoning. And Im not one of those people that download thousands of songs and books and movies. There are tons of things people do every day that is illegal. And Im willing to bet that most of the scribes here are included in that list as well. If not downloading, its something else. No one is perfect, we all have something that isnt exactly "pure." And I challenge anyone to say that they are perfect |
| Mr. Wilson |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 06:32:51
Downloading in my generation, sadly, is seen as a fundamental right more than theft (which it most assuredly is).
I'm sad about that, but it's really common. After all, the vast majority of illegal downloaders are 28 and under. I know people who have entire movie databases that are downloaded, not to mention thousands upon thousands of songs, books, etc. and don't view this as theft.
It boggles my mind because they use poor excuses like the one above. |
| Dracandos the Spellsage |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 05:49:43
Well thats fine, and if I was an adult with a career, not just a job, and was basically set in my life with money, house, and family, ect, then I would certainly spend the money on the books. But I am not in that situation. Its not like I dont buy any of the books, I have bought quite a few of them, and I will continue to buy the ones I really want. I was just saying that I would buy more if they wernt so expensive |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 05:39:28
quote:
Originally posted by Dracandos the Spellsage
So you dont download anything? Thats fine if you dont, Im justr curious. And I am not spitting in the face of anyone. Im stil la fan arent I? But Im in college and I have food to buy, bills to pay, no family yet, but Im saving up for one, and dont really know if I want to spend that much on a book when I have other things to pay for that are necessities. Like you said: food, gas, school, ect.
And the writers, editors, and everyone else involved in publishing also have bills to pay. Even Ed works. Doing illegal downloads keeps money from reaching their pockets, which makes them less likely to keep writing the books.
I'd rather be tight for a few days until payday, because I bought a Realms book, than have a few extra bucks and no Realms books at all to buy. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 04:55:02
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
It is the price of dinner and a movie for you and a date.
Gamers date? When did this start?
I'm just venting my frustrations since one of the three (including myself) long lasting members of my group recently got divorced and quit gaming as he started dating again. 
|
| Dracandos the Spellsage |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 04:30:17
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
How are their prices ridiculous? It's cheaper than a video game. (which only provides 10-30 hours of enjoyment on average.) It is the equivalent of 6-10 happy meals at McDonalds. It is the price of dinner and a movie for you and a date. It is the price of a tank or two of gas.
How can you say that the hours of fun the game provides you is not worth the price of a cheap date now and again? Most groups probably spend more on pizza and snacks when they get together for a gaming session than the cost of a single Realms book.
The authors and designers and editors and illustrators spend months and years of their lives putting this material together for Realms fans, and they certainly deserve to be paid for their services. They have families and kids to feed, and bills to pay.
Downloading an illegal copy of a Realms book because one doesn't like the price is just theft plain and simple and it makes one a criminal, and a very bad person, and it is a spit in the eye of Ed and all the writers and authors and artists who work so hard to bring us great realmslore for the hobby we love so much. 
So you dont download anything? Thats fine if you dont, Im justr curious. And I am not spitting in the face of anyone. Im stil la fan arent I? But Im in college and I have food to buy, bills to pay, no family yet, but Im saving up for one, and dont really know if I want to spend that much on a book when I have other things to pay for that are necessities. Like you said: food, gas, school, ect. |
| khorne |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 21:31:11
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
How are their prices ridiculous? It's cheaper than a video game. (which only provides 10-30 hours of enjoyment on average.) It is the equivalent of 6-10 happy meals at McDonalds. It is the price of dinner and a movie for you and a date. It is the price of a tank or two of gas.
How can you say that the hours of fun the game provides you is not worth the price of a cheap date now and again? Most groups probably spend more on pizza and snacks when they get together for a gaming session than the cost of a single Realms book.
The authors and designers and editors and illustrators spend months and years of their lives putting this material together for Realms fans, and they certainly deserve to be paid for their services. They have families and kids to feed, and bills to pay.
Downloading an illegal copy of a Realms book because one doesn't like the price is just theft plain and simple and it makes one a criminal, and a very bad person, and it is a spit in the eye of Ed and all the writers and authors and artists who work so hard to bring us great realmslore for the hobby we love so much.
I would never stoop to downloading, but my problem is that I am 17, still in school and thus no job, so I depend on my mother for money, and so I have to use a friend`s books since I also buy a lot of manga and FR novels(and my mother pays me a rather small sum each month). And my friend lives in holland so I can`t play that much(but I am going there soon so then I can continue playing) |
| Ty |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 19:38:49
I don't put much stock in the rabble-rousers over on the boards at Paizo. As for the fortunes of the Forgotten Realms, simply look about you. I'm continually impressed by the quality of the books released to support the Forgotten Realms in terms of content, editing, and art. The generic materials produced by WotC for these same rabble-rousers is quite lacking in the same amount of dedication to work product. |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 18:50:46
How are their prices ridiculous? It's cheaper than a video game. (which only provides 10-30 hours of enjoyment on average.) It is the equivalent of 6-10 happy meals at McDonalds. It is the price of dinner and a movie for you and a date. It is the price of a tank or two of gas.
How can you say that the hours of fun the game provides you is not worth the price of a cheap date now and again? Most groups probably spend more on pizza and snacks when they get together for a gaming session than the cost of a single Realms book.
The authors and designers and editors and illustrators spend months and years of their lives putting this material together for Realms fans, and they certainly deserve to be paid for their services. They have families and kids to feed, and bills to pay.
Downloading an illegal copy of a Realms book because one doesn't like the price is just theft plain and simple and it makes one a criminal, and a very bad person, and it is a spit in the eye of Ed and all the writers and authors and artists who work so hard to bring us great realmslore for the hobby we love so much. |
| Dracandos the Spellsage |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 17:11:49
I dont know how the products are selling but I know I would buy a lot more if the prices were lower. $30-$40 for a cardover book I think is absolutely rediculus. Those books are way to expensive and thats why I usually just download whatever I can find. But hey, thats just me. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 08:36:16
Well, according to Erik Mona in this month's Dragon, "The setting currently receives a fantastic level of support from Wizards of the Coast, with a full novel line and a series of impressive hardcover sourcebooks written by true fans of the setting. In many ways, there's never been a better time to be a fan of the Forgotten Realms... So the Realms are coming back to Dragon, in a big way." He goes on to talk about Ed's new series, "Cities of the Realms" and the load of upcoming Realmslore we can look forward to in Dragon. I would hazard a guess that the Realms aren't "dying" anytime soon. |
| AlacLuin |
Posted - 13 Jun 2005 : 01:08:45
This is just my opinion, butt I think the new world will die out before Faerun.
Sure, it’s got scores of new people going there, but I feel the same things that draw them there, away from the realms or other worlds.
Each and every sourcebook, novel, adventure, etc will be introducing NPCs / Heroes of an increasingly higher and higher level.
These higher level “other people” of the world is one of the main reason people flocked there.
I do like that setting; I do visit the forums for it on the “boards that must not be named” and it obvious that there is a growing sense of dissatisfaction with it.
Sure it is small and subtle, but the trend is there and at this time it looks like people are leaving almost as fast as they are coming.
At this point, it’s still a relatively new setting to have people leaving so soon.
It’s also old enough to have seen the major influx of it’s fan base.
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| Prince Forge of Avalon |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 21:35:05
Ah,Sirius the magic idea indeed!
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Moreover, if the FR product line was dying or not turning a profit, wouldn't we see a dramatic decrease in the number of Realms products?
Sirius I think you hit the nail on the head!!!!!
Personally I cant ever see it happening, at least not anytime soon.
PFoA |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 14:02:57
quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord
I believe SKR wrote somewhere that wotc FR books outsold TSR FR books many times.
I've also saved a post from Richard Baker where he comments generally on the sales figures for FR products. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 13:01:22
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I never give much heed to such discussions.
Exactly, often times in such threads I get the feeling it's more wishful thinking on the part of some individuals.
quote:
There was just a recent discussion of a similar vain about the DL line on another forum. And it comes just after 'Sovereign Press' announced a whole slew of new DL accessories...  .
Moreover, if the FR product line was dying or not turning a profit, wouldn't we see a dramatic decrease in the number of Realms products? |
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 05:31:24
I always thought that FR novels sold very well. RAS's recent Hunter's Blade Trilogy was on the New York Time's Best Seller's List and so was several of the books in the WotSQ series. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 05:07:41
I have a post to that thread partly in mind, certainly not a rah-rah piece as those who know Faraer will know, but I've just exhausted myself finishing an editing job and I have to get up soon. Nex' week then. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 03:27:24
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
And whatever happens, 'official' products or not, I'll never stop working on FR projects, linking lore, filling in the blank spots or just e-chatting with FR friends re the place - and I'm positive I won't be alone in that regard.
-- George Krashos
Never alone Krash, and always with friends . I know that as long as there are always dedicated Realms devotees with a true appeciation of good Realmslore, I'll be there.
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| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 03:00:04
Its always difficult to predict too far into the future, but at the same time, since I am a fan of the setting and the novels and not just the game setting for D&D I am likely to be looking for other fans of the Forgotten Realms for years to come to chat with, even as I have over the years with Star Wars (even before the new novels/movies/role playing games). So in the end you are correct, this will indead live for quite some time, even if WOTC somehow decided to axe the whole thing tomorrow.
Of course if they did, Ed might catch up on his questions at some point . . . just kidding! |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 02:51:59
THO has mentioned that from info gleaned from Ed (sans hard data or details) that the FR line has always turned a profit - from its earliest days to now. I would find it hard to credit claims that it's on the way out. And whatever happens, 'official' products or not, I'll never stop working on FR projects, linking lore, filling in the blank spots or just e-chatting with FR friends re the place - and I'm positive I won't be alone in that regard.
-- George Krashos
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| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 02:45:54
I was prepared to ignore it, but I guess the mood I was in this afternoon, I was getting more and more upset with some of the comments, and then I wanted to check in with my more level headed compatriots to make sure that I wasn't just blindly defending my personal favorite.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 02:40:10
I never give much heed to such discussions.
There was just a recent discussion of a similar vain about the DL line on another forum. And it comes just after 'Sovereign Press' announced a whole slew of new DL accessories... .
|
| Snotlord |
Posted - 11 Jun 2005 : 23:48:06
I believe SKR wrote somewhere that wotc FR books outsold TSR FR books many times. |
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