| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Rajorke |
Posted - 30 Apr 2005 : 06:34:20
i was just reading the "Bane vs. Cyric" scroll that was closed by Alaundo, though i agree that versus scrolls are pointless and add little the library it did bring the interesting topic of religious wars in Faerun.
I was wondering what everyone thought about there being more conflicts between the establishments of the churches that are so prominent in the realms, and how we could incorperate such into games and stories. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Forge |
Posted - 06 Jun 2005 : 22:24:03
Honestly, in response to the initial post, there are very few large-scale conflicts that are NOT religeous based. There are many issues with all out war between sects.
1) Even the "evil" gods are revered and given homage by many "good" peoples, to placate them and avoid notice if nothing else.
2) Many religeous wars are fought over intangible doctrine. It's hard to have such vagarities when your god is a gestalt entity who can and will touch their clergy and grant divine powers.
3) Pursuant to #2, in the case of a stalemate with much involved, the gods themselves would possibly be called upon to manifest and such a clash could rend the known world and perilously unbalance the scales. (Hence the discussion of Ao preventing physical confrontation of the gods, though certainly not physical confrontation of divine beings a la Finder/Moander.)
4) What spoils go to the victor? It's not a binary solution set, winner doesn't take all. Winner winds up with a depleted following and a handful of other gods thirsting to take them out before they can acclimate themselves to their new domains and become a threat. The only one who benefits is Kelemvor, and he doesn't care that much.
5) Winning a war with another religeous group doesn't wipe it out, that's something that takes generations and massive subtle campaigns of (dis)information in FR.
|
| Urlithani |
Posted - 06 Jun 2005 : 21:55:46
There is an adventure seed in Lost Empires of Faerun on page 111. It's pretty good if you are thinking about creating a religious war imo.
"Unbeknownst to Kyriana or the adventurers, this task is but the latest move in the endless chess match between Selûne and her archrival, Shar. If the adventurers reach Elah'zad despite attacks by agents of the Shadovar and clerics of the Dark Lady and then correctly perform the required ritual, a temporary portal to the Gates of the Moon opens in the sky above the temple. Then, to the amazement or horr of all who watch, the ancient Netherese floating city of Selûnnara returns to faerun to wage war against the Shadovar of Thultanthar(aka the city of shade).
Two ancient floating cities over Anauroch. Selûne vs. Shar. Not much collateral damage to the outlying lands. Kerplowie!
P.S. Selûne rules!! |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 06 Jun 2005 : 21:12:21
quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
Greetings everyone. So if Lord Ao will stop any physical confrontation between the gods, which I think would be based on terms of physical combat duels and action. But even som, I believe the gods themselves wage some kind of 'non-physical' or 'covert' war against their foes where they secretly plot against each other and using mortals as their pawns in their secret wars. I think Lord Ao would not interfere in such 'non-physical' or 'covert' wars. Are there any contradictions to my suggestion?
This is what I meant by mortals clashing - as pawns to their patron deities  Let us remember that the amount of mortal worshippers defines the power of the deities themselves... |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 09:24:15
Greetings everyone. So if Lord Ao will stop any physical confrontation between the gods, which I think would be based on terms of physical combat duels and action. But even som, I believe the gods themselves wage some kind of 'non-physical' or 'covert' war against their foes where they secretly plot against each other and using mortals as their pawns in their secret wars. I think Lord Ao would not interfere in such 'non-physical' or 'covert' wars. Are there any contradictions to my suggestion? |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 13:27:31
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Rajorke, that's the thing: all the deities have good reasons and purpose to start a war with another deity. Shar and Mystra could start a war because of the whole Shadow Weave/Weave issue. Torm and Bane could start a war because Torm killed Bane during ToT. Lathander could start a war with Shar because one is darkness and the other is light. Tempus could start a war with any deity just because he's the God of War. Lol.
My point is, you could randomly pick two gods out from the Faerunian pantheon and could make up reasons for them to fight.
Perhaps they know what would happen if gods make war on each other. I think AO would certainly stop any 'physical' confrontation before other deities would step in, or choose sides (ToT and Dawn Cataclysm caused serious damage both to Faerun and gods themselves). However, this does not prevent mortal worshippers from clashing, burning churches, assassinating members of enemy faiths etc.
I remember some piece of Realmslore (maybe from the original Pool of Radiance-computer game?) describing a thunderous battle between Tempus and Bane, and how mortals on Faerun cowered when the skies themselves echoed their mighty blows. I may be wrong, but I also remember that there is a reference to this 'heavenly clash' in F&A. |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 13:19:07
quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
You know Lowtech.You might be onto something.A holy crusade between a church of the Faerunian pantheon against members of the Mulhorandi pantheon.That would be explosive.,diverse,and one of a kind.Never really written about in novel form.Has it ever been written about at all?????Has anything like this happened????
Yes, if you consider that during the Dawn Cataclysm a few of the "old gods" were either replaced,destroyed, or "transformed" (like Tyche) |
| Darth KTrava |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 04:00:14
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Other than the "religious war" happening between Cyric and Bane, I'm surprised that there's no other big conflicts happening between other deities. One that I would expect to occur a long time ago would be Bane and Torm. After all, Torm killed Bane during ToT and I'm sure the God of Strife is still angry over that.
Oh, you know both gods are just itchin' for a rematch! But it won't be nowhere as equal as during the ToT when both were basically mortal and on even ground as far as power levels go.
I'd root for Torm any day!!! 
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| Darth KTrava |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 03:57:24
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Rhezarnos
quote:
Originally posted by Rudar Dimble
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I imagine Sunes paladins would have been more organised
They've got plenty of time to do so...
Yea... half an hour for shining their helms, an hour grooming themselves, another hour grooming their steeds, etc.
Sounds like an episode of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. From now on, the promos for that show will never be viewed in the same light by this scribe.
Hmm.... queer paladins.... (unwilling to go there on that one... ) |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 17:57:29
quote:
Originally posted by tauster
not only that, but it also relieves me of the headaches of having been a bit too generous with treasure (monetary and magical)- you wouldn´t guess how much rebuilding a keep, keeping it in good repair and founding a new order costs!
Yes, I can imagine Our characters in a long-running Waterdeep campaign built a magical tower as a temple to Helm. It certainly took several months, even with the aid of the wizard Savengriff, and the dwarves of Sundabar. We had to sacrifice several powerful magical items (which he had JUST acquired from a dragon´s hoard) in order to enchant the tower with the proper magical abilities (teleporting once/day and prismatic spray once/day). This tower was built on the lower slopes of Mount Waterdeep, and called the Beacon of the North. It took also most of the treasure we had acquired from two dragon hoards (this happened when we still played with ad&d-rules, when slaying ancient wyrms was still possible...) *sigh*
quote:
...and rewarding it feels! i had never thought that my players set their hearts on the keep and the new order so much!
besides: it gives me another chance to keep them on their toes - i would only have to threaten either keep or the new religious order itself and the players would jump at it immediately! 
I can well imagine. Your players have succeeded in making a dream come true, one that they probably have hoped to do for a long time. Now they have long-term goals tied to their order and the keep. It also offers wonderful roleplaying opportunities, and the chance to really make a difference. Since I have felt the same as a player (as I wrote above about one of our campaigns), it is easy to imagine how your players must feel. Something like this is a lot better than a powerful magic item or heps of gold. And it also offers so many possible plot hooks to you as a DM
quote:
the centerpiece of my campaign is night below , so the (yet unknown) main villains are a city full of aboleth - so tell me about slime and tentacles!
tsornyl will stay in the background for a while. the party chose to ignore one particular branch of a tunnel in the underdark (that would have lead below tsornyl) and cleared the other way down there, so when i finally reveal just what they missed years and levels ago, the effect will be all the more rewarding.
I have long yearned to run the Night Below... I once planned to introduce in into my campaign, but the players didn´t "swallow the hook", so I decided to postpone the events until a suitable opportunity comes up.
Hopefully your players will travel to Tsornyl eventually...
quote:
hmmm... that´s a twist i will seriously consider... perhaps someone else appears (seemingly "from nowhere", respectively from somewhere the players would not have thought of) who believes that turaglas and moander are one and the same. enticing idea - causing confusion that way!
Sounds good - even if you decided that this wasn´t true and they are two separate entities. Since there is so much false information (and assumptions instead of facts) about gods being told all around the Realms, it may be impossible to discern what is true and what is false. I remember that Ed Greenwood used a lot of NPCs with the same name in his campaigns to confuse his players... why not confuse things with deities in a similar manner
quote:
btw, tomorrow i plan to let the aforementioned npc hint at the infiltration of the cult of the dragon by the church of tiamat (which happens in the first half of 1371, see "powers and pantheons"). that´s another example of a religious war/conflict, not between two religions, but between one religion and one secular organisation. i could well see the potential for a whole campaign in that!
The ´Old Empires´-module offers some potentially useful Realmslore about the Cult of Tiamat in addition to Powers & Pantheons.
And you can really use NPCs of several evil priesthoods (see LoD) if this conflict expands to involve most of the Cult (Talos, Velsharoon, Cyric...)
It certainly is an idea worth a whole campaign, or at least a central part of a campaign. Perhaps the cultists of Tiamat are searching for a base, and the ´Eye of the Storm´ might very well seem like a suitable choice for them. Maybe they start this by infiltrating a few priests into the keep, and then there would be ´mysterious´ murders during several nights, as the cultists are weeding out the NPCs/guards?
|
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 17:14:39
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I just love Moander, and the other "Slimy-all-eyes-and-tentacles" -deities I have also plans for the Great Dread God in my campaign...
Be sure to share your these plans here then. I'm rather fond of reading campaigns that include these deities myself...  .
Certainly, Sage...
Thus far my PCs have explored some ruins in the Vast Swamp, including a tomb of a blackguard of Moander (Willie Walsh´s adventure in a Dungeon, don´t remember the title right now). This blackguard was part of a minor cult of Moander (called "Darkwatch", established originally at Darkwatch), which operated mainly in rural areas of Cormyr and Sembia about fifty years ago, spying and corrupting many officials and relatively important people into Moander´s worship. Sometimes they took hold of wayside inns and preyed on lonely travelers, planting seeds of Moander into victims (especially in Lathander´s followers) and sacrificing them in horrendous rituals as the victims were consumed by the Eating from Within.
Recently, they acquired some magical gems from a forgotten, lonely tomb ("Guardians of the Tomb", Dungeon issue #1). I modified the gems into relics from Netheril - powerful "Soul traps" (resembling the Moanderite spell from F&A - but permanent) created by either Netherese followers of Moander or Jergal (haven´t yet decided which). These gems have undead shadows bound to them, and while the PCs are happily spending them, the shadows are following them
Eventually they will cause a lot of havoc with these gems in upcountry Sembia, and Cult of the Dragon (Cyric´s and Velsharoon´s clergy) will step in to gain control of these undead. As the PCs try to battle the Cult, an insane Fey´ri cleric of Moander (he fell into Moander´s faith as he tried to acquire lost items of Tsornyl, in Darkwatch), masquerading as a gold elf, will manipulate everything from within shadows... including both the Eldreth Veluudra and the Dragon Cult.
I am intending to use some modules of the Mere of the Dead Men-series in the Vast Swamp, where I will probably change all references of Myrkul to Moander.
This was a short (=confusing ;) description of how I will use Moander in my campaign... 
|
| Shadovar |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 01:35:15
Faerunian pantheon going against the Mulhorandi pantheon? Hmm, interesting, but that will sure need Lord Ao approval. Well some questions, will Lord Ao approve of a war between these opposing pantheons for creating something glorious in histoty or for his entertainment?
Also, given that the Faerunian pantheon already has its internal squabbles between the gods of the light and dark, I don't think they could unite and go to war against the Mulhorandi pantheon unless Lord Ao sanction it. |
| VEDSICA |
Posted - 27 May 2005 : 15:40:17
You know Lowtech.You might be onto something.A holy crusade between a church of the Faerunian pantheon against members of the Mulhorandi pantheon.That would be explosive.,diverse,and one of a kind.Never really written about in novel form.Has it ever been written about at all?????Has anything like this happened???? |
| tauster |
Posted - 27 May 2005 : 10:44:40
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by tauster
half a dozen npc priests from all over the realms are now on their way to mistledale, and the rebuilding of the keep is already well underway. it will be called "the eye of the storm" and is meant to be the staging ground for the campaign to prevent the god of corruption from returning.
Sounds really good. I like the idea of Shaundakul allying with Waukeen
I also like the ´Eye of the Storm´ - it is rewarding to allow your PCs to achieve these kind of goals. It makes them feel like "Hey, we are having a major impact on the Realms"
not only that, but it also relieves me of the headaches of having been a bit too generous with treasure (monetary and magical)- you wouldn´t guess how much rebuilding a keep, keeping it in good repair and founding a new order costs!
...and rewarding it feels! i had never thought that my players set their hearts on the keep and the new order so much!
besides: it gives me another chance to keep them on their toes - i would only have to threaten either keep or the new religious order itself and the players would jump at it immediately!
quote:
I just love Moander, and the other "Slimy-all-eyes-and-tentacles" -deities I have also plans for the Great Dread God in my campaign... which sounds a bit like yours (without Turaglas). If all goes according to my plans, my PCs are up for a trip to the ruins of Tsornyl (Darkwatch)
the centerpiece of my campaign is night below , so the (yet unknown) main villains are a city full of aboleth - so tell me about slime and tentacles!
tsornyl will stay in the background for a while. the party chose to ignore one particular branch of a tunnel in the underdark (that would have lead below tsornyl) and cleared the other way down there, so when i finally reveal just what they missed years and levels ago, the effect will be all the more rewarding.
quote:
I would make Turaglas either an ally (or servant), or maybe even better, an aspect of Moander. Having read the said Dragon-article, I would maybe seriously consider him/it being the part of Moander's essence imprisoned within Darkwatch... but that is just me.
hmmm... that´s a twist i will seriously consider... perhaps someone else appears (seemingly "from nowhere", respectively from somewhere the players would not have thought of) who believes that turaglas and moander are one and the same. enticing idea - causing confusion that way!
btw, tomorrow i plan to let the aforementioned npc hint at the infiltration of the cult of the dragon by the church of tiamat (which happens in the first half of 1371, see "powers and pantheons"). that´s another example of a religious war/conflict, not between two religions, but between one religion and one secular organisation. i could well see the potential for a whole campaign in that! |
| lowtech |
Posted - 27 May 2005 : 06:17:58
quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
I'm not sure if this was mentioned before because basically I am too lazy to read the whole thread.I am surprised,though I never really noticed it before,but there has never been anything mentioned about a crusade of The Church of Tempus.His church would be the prime example since he is the God of War....
I mentioned this briefly regarding a holy war between faerunian deities and the Mulhorundi pantheon. Basically, Tempus will get involved against Mulhorundi expansion due to Anhur's (the Mulhorundi God of War)invasion of his turf. Tempus would also initiate a holy war against Garagos. A sect-wide holy war against other Faerunian deities would be contrary to the principles Tempus believes in and the responsibilities inherent in his portfolio (unless, of course, another god is stupid enough to attack him...) |
| VEDSICA |
Posted - 27 May 2005 : 05:01:33
I'm not sure if this was mentioned before because basically I am too lazy to read the whole thread.I am surprised,though I never really noticed it before,but there has never been anything mentioned about a crusade of The Church of Tempus.His church would be the prime example since he is the God of War.... |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 May 2005 : 02:38:44
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I just love Moander, and the other "Slimy-all-eyes-and-tentacles" -deities I have also plans for the Great Dread God in my campaign...
Be sure to share your these plans here then. I'm rather fond of reading campaigns that include these deities myself... .
|
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 26 May 2005 : 14:50:28
quote:
Originally posted by tauster
half a dozen npc priests from all over the realms are now on their way to mistledale, and the rebuilding of the keep is already well underway. it will be called "the eye of the storm" and is meant to be the staging ground for the campaign to prevent the god of corruption from returning.
Sounds really good. I like the idea of Shaundakul allying with Waukeen
I also like the ´Eye of the Storm´ - it is rewarding to allow your PCs to achieve these kind of goals. It makes them feel like "Hey, we are having a major impact on the Realms"
quote:
the slain god of corruption is not quite dead yet: in ancient times, moander ripped out a part of his divine self and hurled it against an elven city. the city was completely destroyed, but the divine part of moander was trapped beneath the surface by elven high mages (iirc). see volos guide to the realms, the entry of dark watch (high dale, iirc) for more details. several decades ago someone discovered old lore about that event and founded a new cult cell with the goal of freeing moander.
I just love Moander, and the other "Slimy-all-eyes-and-tentacles" -deities I have also plans for the Great Dread God in my campaign... which sounds a bit like yours (without Turaglas). If all goes according to my plans, my PCs are up for a trip to the ruins of Tsornyl (Darkwatch)
quote:
in truth, she is follower of moander, has discovered what happens at hunters down and has founded the cult cell that tries to free the last surviving bit of the god of corruption. she thinks that she can smehow "merge" the bound turaglas with the divine pieve of moander, so she hunts down cult cells of turaglas to prevent them from freeing their lord before she is ready. ...wheels within wheels within wheels...
I would make Turaglas either an ally (or servant), or maybe even better, an aspect of Moander. Having read the said Dragon-article, I would maybe seriously consider him/it being the part of Moander's essence imprisoned within Darkwatch... but that is just me.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 26 May 2005 : 14:28:00
quote:
Originally posted by silvermage
quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
Mystra followers do have a military wing called the Sisters of the Silver fire
Sisters of the silver fire? Strange name, I had never heard that Mystra followers do have a military wing. Is there information on this military wing of Mystra?
The Sorority of the Silver Fire serve Mystra. They are a secretive sisterhood of spellcasters who have dedicated themselves to opposing Sammaster and his vile plans.
They are detailed in the Cult of the Dragon tome, available for free download on the WotC site.
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| silvermage |
Posted - 26 May 2005 : 14:02:43
quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
Mystra followers do have a military wing called the Sisters of the Silver fire
Sisters of the silver fire? Strange name, I had never heard that Mystra followers do have a military wing. Is there information on this military wing of Mystra? |
| StromLancer |
Posted - 26 May 2005 : 13:58:40
Hide and seek game? Well I think those religious factions without a military wing of their own may seek outside the faith services to complete the destruction of an enemy deity followers except perhaps those who follow Bhaal. Bhaal is widely worshipped by assassins before Bhaal death, so I guess these followers do not need a military wing at all since the followers already comprise the military wing as they all posssess martial skills of their own.
Yes, Shadovar is right. Unless an avatar comes to lead a deity followers in a campaign against an opposing faith-which may mean another RSE- who is considered a deity major enemy, they will just wage pocket wars of their own. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 26 May 2005 : 13:44:43
Well, i beleive the various religious factions of followers worshipping various deities fight with the opposing deity followers with their own religious military wings. Mystra followers do have a military wing called the Sisters of the Silver fire(Please do not be mistaken that the military wing are comprised of the Seven Sisters or the other Chosen)
Selune followers also have two military wings:
1) The Moon Guard
An elite group, handpicked from the finest of the Silverstars. It is their duty to guard and protect the Priestess of the High Moonlight, and the main Temple to Selûne in Deephaven. They are the only Silverstars not required to leave the city on Field duty on a regular basis.
Within their own ranks there are many levels and rankings, but this works internally and is kept a secret amongst their own. This is to better protect their officers from infiltrators and threats from outside such as the many secret cults dedicated to Shar.
2) SilverStars
These are the Protectors of the Faith. Their ranks consist mainly of Fighters, often with minor Incantation or Healing skills.
They will fight with any weapon, but Maces are preferred. The mace will almost always carry the blessing of the Lady; these weapons are referred to as a Moons Hand. The Moon Guards' version of this weapon is always smooth-headed, and usually inset with pieces of Moonstone.
Silverstars are not always actual members of the Faith. Those who receive Bloodstones can choose to accept Her blessings and fight in Her name and need only a Selûnite of Priestly ranking or higher to bless their weapons.
Well, for the religious factions of followers lacking a military wing, I guess they will just attack a follower of a deity who is the enemy of their deity on sight. They are unlikely to go to the extent of all out warfare against the other unless Avatars of their patron deities are there to lead them. Otherwise, i think it is a hide and seek game of hunt or be hunted.
|
| Defender |
Posted - 26 May 2005 : 13:37:05
Excuse me for raising this topic up again, since there are religious wars on Faerun. I wonder how did the various religious factions of followers fight with each other, surely each religious faction possess a military wing such as The Faction of Selune followers possess a military wing known as the Silverstars(heard that more women than men in the ranks) and I heard that Mystra followers also has a military wing though I can't recall the military wing name.
Do they fight each other with their military wings or through paladins of the various factions? What about the other religious factions of followers who do not possess a military wing, do they fight their god/goddess enemies(including the enemy god followers) by stealth and trickery or other means such as messy melee warfare? |
| lowtech |
Posted - 07 May 2005 : 09:17:37
The Faerunian Gods that might get involved in a religious war with the Mulhorandi Pantheon are Hoar (read 2e Powers and Pantheons), Selune (FRCS), Mystra (the Messemprer(sp) wizards), Tiamat (Powers and Pantheons), Bane (Mourktar), and Tempus(there's the Furrifax faction if one needs a direct connection,he would fight for the principle of the thing, anyway).
While the Faerunian Dieties for obvious reasons are hesitant to sponser crusades, I think the Mulhorandi invasion will make it unavoidable. I do NOT think either side will send Avatars into the fray, because the likely result will be another wasteland of purple dust. (Besides, its much more interesting to have mortals act on their behalf.) |
| tauster |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 21:28:52
the following is my variant of the "religious war - theme". it´s part of a larger campaign, centered around the plot of the night below- campaign, placed in mistledale, campaign date 1371.
the good:
shaundakul
one pc is a speciality priest (2nd edition, the party is around lvl. 10) of shaundakul and at the moment organizing the rebuilding of an old keep at the fringes of cormanthor in eastern mistledale (where in canon lore the wild "beast lands" are). he helped to free waukeen from gra´azzt (sp?) by slowing a horde of minor demons on the celestial staircase, thus keeping the rescuers of the goddess out of additional trouble. during the triumphant return of waukeen on her homeplane, the market eternal, he met a small congregation of shaundakuls faerunian priests that were present (together with their god) to witness the new alliance between the the helping hand and the traders friend. of course after the ceremony (see "for duty and deity" for more details) the priests were busy talking with each other and since the character belongs now to the more important (i.e. higher level-) priests of shaundakul, he managed tp persuade a handful of the others to help him establish a new temple in the old keep in mistledale.
back from the market eternal, shaundakul took about two dozen priests with him to his temple in myth drannor, where he explained some of the changes to come: the new portfolio of portals for example, and that his followers are about to devolope new spells (see portal domain in "underdark" and "magic of faerun"). the god hinted that moander is not as dead as everyone thought and that trouble from that direction might be expected in the near future but said even he does not know more at the moment. after the "hearing", every priest was sent home.
half a dozen npc priests from all over the realms are now on their way to mistledale, and the rebuilding of the keep is already well underway. it will be called "the eye of the storm" and is meant to be the staging ground for the campaign to prevent the god of corruption from returning.
waukeen
the eye of the storm will also house a shrine to waukeen. when waukeen´s avatar burst into a shower of golden coins as she received her divinity back from liira at the market eternal, many of the attendees managed to grab several of these coins. the priest of shaundakul and his collegues own several dozen of them, and plan in to collaborate with waukeens priests (whoever that will be in the near future) to create a series of minor magic items (with the tendency to alleviate travel, bargaining and perhaps the looming war against moander). since the priest played an important role during waukeens liberation, the shrine or temple might become an important place of pilgrimage soon.
lathander
the keep also houses a shrine/temple dedicated to lathander, as the rosestone, a minor artifact from myth drannors temple was recovered recently and brought into the keep.
the bad
"the bad" are several evil gods or demon-worshipping cults. the main protagonists i called "the dark triade", and consist of cults ot moander, turaglas and tharizdun. the players already wiped out two minor groups of magic user- kidnapping followers of cyric (the main plot of night below) and encountered a revenant (the former leader of one of those groups, sent back by xvim to punish the pc).
turaglas
see dragon magazine #312 for details of this god. in short, turaglas is a god of hunger and destruction. several small cabals of the ebon maw try to free him from his planar prison, where he is trapped since eons.
tharizdun
i´ll integrate, besides "the forgotten temple of Tharizdun" (WG4), the monsters from "Children of Tharizdun" (dragon annual #5). these cabal is the 3rd and least powerful group of the dark triade, it´s place in the story arc is still undefined and will be determined by the course of the pc´s actions. i already introduced one follower of the dark god (modelled after the entropomancer, see http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040502a) that haunts the pc from time to time without showing himself (invisibility), so the players are left clueless who or what harasses them.
moander
the slain god of corruption is not quite dead yet: in ancient times, moander ripped out a part of his divine self and hurled it against an elven city. the city was completely destroyed, but the divine part of moander was trapped beneath the surface by elven high mages (iirc). see volos guide to the realms, the entry of dark watch (high dale, iirc) for more details. several decades ago someone discovered old lore about that event and founded a new cult cell with the goal of freeing moander.
the older sister of one pc (one of the party´s two mages) recently appeared in game. the player had mentioned in his background story that more than ten years ago (well before the campaign started), she ran away from home and finally hooked up with the rot grubs in ordulin, a minor thiefes guild. when the group was attacked by demonic minions of turaglas in waterdeep several sessions ago, she unexpectedly emerged and helped to save their skins, getting badly injured herself during the battle. she told her brother that she has quitted the rot grubs long ago, becoming a mage like her younger brother and began hunting not only the cult of the dragon in sembia but also dedicated herself to eradicate cult cells of turaglas, whose history she stumbled over several years ago.
she revealed that she had died at least once and was brought back to life (but without telling which god granted her ressuraction) and discovered that magic and blood are closely related to each other since that crucial event for her (i made her a blood mage from "tome and blood"). in truth, she is follower of moander, has discovered what happens at hunters down and has founded the cult cell that tries to free the last surviving bit of the god of corruption. she thinks that she can smehow "merge" the bound turaglas with the divine pieve of moander, so she hunts down cult cells of turaglas to prevent them from freeing their lord before she is ready. ...wheels within wheels within wheels...
...and the unrelated:
there´s a temple of ghaunadar in the underdark below ordulin that the group destroyed, at the moment not related to the other religious groups, and the temples of chauntea and silvanus in mistledale are not contacted by the players yet. it is possible that they will join in the fray in the future, it depends on what the players will do.
that´s the gist of my little inter-religious war.
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| Xysma |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 20:01:35
quote:
Originally posted by Rajorke
this may be a long shot, but it could possibly come about as an agreement by the churches of say Tyr Ilmater Torm and possibly Sune to band together in some way to deal with the religious and political tyranny of a nation like Mulhorand and fight on the side of Unther to free from Mulhorandi rule. Like I said this is a long shot but it seems like a situation that could be considered a massive holy war in the realms that doesn't involve the Zhentarim. Many established nations have strong ties with those dieties' churches so they could back the churchs' ambitions to fight the war... i'm just throwing this out there
The church of Hoar would undoubtedly participate in any war against the Mulhorandi pantheon, that's almost Hoar's dogma. |
| Fletcher |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 16:28:18
quote:
Originally posted by The Blue Sorceress
quote:
Another thought is that there are very few locations in the Heartlands where the majority of any location is one religion. It is hard for a mass uprising when only a 5 percent of the population worships that deity as a primary god.
But that doesn't take into account places like Dambrath where the government is a theocracy. Everone in the nation might not claim Loviatar as their personal patron, but the people who run the government do. If they were so inclined I could easily see them declaring a "holy war" on their neighbors as an excuse to promote their own power and their goddess'.
-Blue
Oh sure! Take one specific example out of about thirty available that shoots down my whole theory.
On a more serious note: I could easily agree that there are theocracies that could and probably would order attacks on neighboring states. And I can see those more evil theocracies even forcing a diplomatic tiff, in order to start that war. Or doing a judicious amount of bad mouthing their target to the populace. Sort of a publicity campaign to invade the target nation.
I can even see a goodly aligned theocracy starting a holy war to stop slavery or wipe out some enclave of shadow sorcerers.
Others I see doing a more quiet annexation, like Cormyr and its annexation of what used to be Tilverton. They just sort of moved in and refused to leave.
That is the beauty of FR. It is so diverse and has so many options.
But I think the main reason we haven’t see the holy wars is that the authors have focused on other things. Perhaps to not strain relations, perhaps because they see the whole religious war thing as a cliché, or perhaps because they enjoy developing a couple of characters in detail.
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| DDH_101 |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 06:23:31
I agree with The Blue Sorceress. The perfect example of this was in Prince of Lies. Cyric basically had the whole Zhentil Keep under his religious control and used the city as his center of worship. |
| The Blue Sorceress |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 05:54:42
quote:
Another thought is that there are very few locations in the Heartlands where the majority of any location is one religion. It is hard for a mass uprising when only a 5 percent of the population worships that deity as a primary god.
But that doesn't take into account places like Dambrath where the government is a theocracy. Everone in the nation might not claim Loviatar as their personal patron, but the people who run the government do. If they were so inclined I could easily see them declaring a "holy war" on their neighbors as an excuse to promote their own power and their goddess'.
-Blue |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 May 2005 : 17:37:53
'Tis a good point. Taking it a bit further... Most real-world religious wars were either "my deity is better than your deity!" or "my deity is better than your pantheon!" or vice-versa. In a world where there are a gazillion deities covering so many aspects of life, religious wars become less likely. When the average person might call on a half-dozen deities on a daily basis, it's harder to motivate him to go to war over another deity. The people most likely to participate in religious wars are the clerics and those who are exceedingly devout worshippers of only one deity. |
| Fletcher |
Posted - 05 May 2005 : 17:22:01
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
I've been pondering this a little.... And to me the deities and thier clergy don't make large scale wars because it would decimate thier followers. Nations would be annoyed and deeply upset that thier cities and or lands are being used as a battle ground. Magic would also decimate large swathes of lands, etc.
I just don't see FR as a setting where large divine wars would happen. There are to many factors that would restrict them.
But that's my opinion.
Another thought is that there are very few locations in the Heartlands where the majority of any location is one religion. It is hard for a mass uprising when only a 5 percent of the population worships that deity as a primary god.
Second there seems to be most religions active in most areas. Every city you look at has at least 2 or 3 major temples, and a couple of shrines, not to mention the hidden churches.
Kind of hard to go and smack down the evil baddies when the good guys make up a third of the town guard trying to protect their families.
Think of it like this: The President would have a hard time convincing congress that attacking the Nazis, when 30% of the armed forces of the 3rd Reich are americans defending their families, is a good thing. That would be americans killing americans. Needless to say there would be an uproar at home, and congressmen would lose their seats.
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