| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Celebrant Moonflower |
Posted - 02 Sep 2002 : 23:13:18
Well this is a huge controversey in my area which edition is better 2nd or 3rd. I have played both (and original rules) And Have found that 2nd is the most enjoyable in my eyes. I like the skills and feats system somewhat in 3rd but other then that I find characters getting more powerful faster in 3rd. Besides Nonweapons fill in just as well as skills, and feats well not much fill in for the way of feats unless you take a character class such as archer and get a called shot or something similiar.
Post your thoughts! 2nd or 3rd? or hey even original!
When has truth been utterly devoid of paradox? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Trafaldi |
Posted - 28 Feb 2003 : 13:38:16
I have to say that 3e is the better because it simplifies the game and allows you to get more wrapped up into the actual game. The feats and skills make the game better as well. I still like to play 2e on occasions but 3e allows the game to expand further. |
| zemd |
Posted - 05 Feb 2003 : 10:20:25
As far as i'm concerned, i think a big word was made on 3rd Ed
-> 2nde was a real mess, there were books about everything and nothing
-> New rules are quite simple, much more attractive for beginners
-> The new look is terrific
So i vote for the 3rd, and i'm waiting for the 3.5 (who wants to buy my 3rd ed by the way? ) |
| Mumadar Ibn Huzal |
Posted - 27 Jan 2003 : 18:42:16
quote:
Originally posted by Jeffrey Williams
quote:
For those who've been paying attention, Eric has been working on some of the 3e FR products, and IMO his hand is visible in the fine 'fluffy' details.
When, where, how? I wish to buy them. 
I know you haven't kept up with the novels section of the FR Jeff, but in the Return of the Archwizards series, Eric made some big contribution (just look at the 'thanks to...' pages) |
| Exodus |
Posted - 27 Jan 2003 : 17:29:07
Good day my lords ladys and peasants. For this topic you are all on each race has its benefits and down falls but for one to say that one race is better then another is childish. For I hate to say no one race is better then any other. |
| Jeffrey Williams |
Posted - 08 Dec 2002 : 07:08:43
quote:
For those who've been paying attention, Eric has been working on some of the 3e FR products, and IMO his hand is visible in the fine 'fluffy' details.
When, where, how? I wish to buy them.
|
| Mumadar Ibn Huzal |
Posted - 05 Dec 2002 : 07:57:12
Well put Captain, I would agree with you on this. Afterall, D&D is a roleplaying game. How I would like for the likes of Steven Schend and Eric L Boyd to produce some more 'fluff' along the lines of Lands of Intrigue and Empires of the Shining Sea...
For those who've been paying attention, Eric has been working on some of the 3e FR products, and IMO his hand is visible in the fine 'fluffy' details. |
| Captain Louis |
Posted - 04 Dec 2002 : 18:57:28
I had a debat about this in a chatroom a few days ago, and I'll try to remember the conclusions I came up with. 2nd edition had its advantages, but the best part about 2nd edition was the quality of the books released. Alot more of the books were devoted to "fluff," things like history, adventure hooks, and things that would help with role-playing. For this reason people have claimed that 2nd edition was for role-players, while 3rd edition was for roll-players. This is completely false. A true role-player can play with any edition, because the rules will matter less. So the biggest argument that 2nd edition is better (which doesn't make sense, as better is an opinion, so there can be no answer) because it is used to role-play is false. The advantages of 3rd edition are many. In my opinion the rules are easier to use, the books are much better layed out, and it is easier to find rules in other books. One of the biggest problems with 2nd edition was the fact that a new book might reffer to a rule in a book that has been out of print for 5 years. And finally, when someone gets that book, it will reffer to a book that is 7 years old. If you didn't have many out of print books, then some rules were impossible to find. So, overall, there is no better edition, as 2nd has better info and third has better mechanics. |
| The Defence Minister |
Posted - 03 Dec 2002 : 17:00:24
My favourite D&D edition is definately the 3rd. It's like the 2nd edition.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. only better!
TDM |
| Kitira Gildragon |
Posted - 03 Dec 2002 : 13:51:09
Third Edition all the way! It might be new, and you all might have had experience with the 2nd, but it really helps speed games up!
You underestimate halflings, men. Look at Mazzy from BG2! She KICKS ARSE! One of my favorite quotes: "Explosives come in small packages". Need I say more? |
| Echon |
Posted - 03 Dec 2002 : 13:50:44
quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
quote:
The whole subject being very subjective - after all it's called Favorite Edition - there cannot be a conclusive answer... and there doesn't need to be one. As long as people are enjoying the game in whatever edition, the main goal has been reached.
It was not meant to be a vote for the best edition. I simply wanted to know what people preferred.
[quote]And to enjoy the Forgotten Realms is something that can be done completely without 'editions'. Just look at the amount of people that enjoy reading about the world (or playing computer games set in the Realms) who have never played D&D, AD&D or D&D 3e.
True. However, I am starting to dislike the FR novelse (and the Dragonlance as well) the older I get. Thet are very mediocre.
I read the Avatar series mainly due to the knowledge of the Time of Troubles I would get and not because I enjoyed it overly much. It was good as times but bad at other times as well.
-Echon |
| Mumadar Ibn Huzal |
Posted - 03 Dec 2002 : 13:45:55
ROTFLOL... since the 2nd edition line is officially dead, your 'Period' is very well placed
The whole subject being very subjective - after all it's called Favorite Edition - there cannot be a conclusive answer... and there doesn't need to be one. As long as people are enjoying the game in whatever edition, the main goal has been reached.
And to enjoy the Forgotten Realms is something that can be done completely without 'editions'. Just look at the amount of people that enjoy reading about the world (or playing computer games set in the Realms) who have never played D&D, AD&D or D&D 3e. |
| Echon |
Posted - 02 Dec 2002 : 19:47:08
I was going to make a new topic with the same...topic...but I decided to check to see if there was an old one first and it turned out there was. Anyway, a lot of the new members (myself included) have not vote here yet so it is about time.
AD&D Second Edition. Period.
-Echon |
| The Great Drizzt |
Posted - 17 Oct 2002 : 06:18:16
I don't think its a good idea to make a DM outta someone that doesnt know very much about the game, like in your case, if you know more about it, then maybe you should be DM, just a thought.
The Great Drizzt |
| BoneHead |
Posted - 16 Oct 2002 : 05:59:15
Well he has finally made it into the combat chapter, and is liking things about the enw edition more and more, but his few visits to the WotC official d&d boards have gotten him down recently, and im inclined to agreee with him about them.
The attitude there of being only one right way to play, the attitude "official only" has got him down, he doesnt like the rules lawyering there, the way people let rules wording fly in the face of common sense.
Not much i can do for that, but if he will hurry up and finish the book we will all discuss wether or not to stay with 3rd or go back to second.
Trips to the official d&d boards make me want to go back to second just to be free of the rampant rules lawyering common among 3rd edition communities, even though i like the new rules better.
Ah well.
I mean this guy was a bad lawyer in 2nd, but the new generation has approached the game with a magic the gathering mindset that demands things be done a certain, as the books, regardless of how silly they may be, such as the fact that by strict wording a wish spell cannot tie your shoes. |
| The Great Drizzt |
Posted - 12 Oct 2002 : 08:24:36
I still like 2nd best, third isnt broad enough for my tastes yet, dont get me wrong, ive tried it, and its ok, but it doesnt have enough history and literature behind it yet, I think in time I will switch, but right now i'm PERFECTLY content with second edition.
The Great Drizzt |
| eilinel |
Posted - 10 Oct 2002 : 04:40:18
Why don't you propose him to be the DM with the 3rd edition. A DM has to be a rule lawyer.
Well, i guess he 'd be a DM but start with the 2nd ed.
I don't know how to help you... I was like this guy, staying in the 2nd edition because i was a ****ing good lawyer, but what? I turned progressively to the 3rd ed, pushed by my friends. And finaly, i prefer the 3rd ed now. But i don't know how i did the curve. It was just like that. I think you have to wait a little bit more...
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| BoneHead |
Posted - 10 Oct 2002 : 04:15:24
I dont know if it is lack of interest or what but he has only read character creation and multiclassing since i last posted.
Just shoot me. |
| BoneHead |
Posted - 28 Sep 2002 : 08:34:51
Thanks for the reply, i gave him my spare copy of the 3e phb tonight and told him he has 7 days to skim over the basics, understand the action types, read about character creation & advancement, get the jist of combat and magic, ect, and he agree'd that he would make the time to do so.
I repeatedly told him just to read a little, that it wasnt gonna be an exam or anything like that, just to read about how 3e handles all the 2e rules he has memorized, and that he could call about any questions.
I think, since for me 3e brought back that 1e feel(assassins & barbarians yay!), that he would truly love it, especially once he see's how the one xp chart simplifys things and the new multiclass & feats systems give him more customization ability than ever before.
I hope he truly does read through it with an open mind instead of going fishing instead, and i know that if he will just wrap his mind around it he will see that it is more streamlined and even hearkens back to his favorite edition, 1e, with such staples as the barbarian & assassin, whose loss as classes he griped about when 2e came out.
Heh this reminds me, he did this same thing with each new edition as it was released, and even said tonight that he would still be playing 1e if we hadnt changed to 2e on him. I told him that in a lot of ways it was like 1e again, and that it is a time again when he can know the rules without having more books beyond the phb.
His response was "thats probably true, but these new books give me a different feel than the old ones, i dont like the feeling, sure what i saw of the game was much simpler than what 2e had evolved into near its end and even incorporated by default some of the nicer things that came along such as attacks of opportunity, but for some reason to look at these shiny new things and their art makes me feel this version of the game is aimed at younger people, the DBZ crowd, and my friend....we are NOT young anymore".
Theres not much i can do for him about the artwork, i dont know if its the color scheme or what but my group of 6 all say the new artwork is cartoonish.
I tend to agree, i prefer the artwork of earlier editions such as elmores' pieces, stuff like the first color painting in the front of 2e's phb or the cover of the old red basic D&D boxed set for levels 1-3.
Ive been coming to this site off and on, and many others just as sporadiclly, i started running forgotten realms back during the 1e to 2e transition, and have always found this place to be an excellent resource, more so than the offical wotc even, but it took this situation to compel me to look for a forum link so as to ask for assistance.
Anyway ill stop hijacking this thread now and just say:
Ive played through them all and like each new rules set better than its predecessor.
I swear each time a new edition is about to be released that i wont go for it, but after picking up the books in the store and skimming through them i am always won over.
This last time the feeling of "ill never change!!" was stronger than ever, especially since i had invested so much money in FR products for 2e, but one glance in each of the 3 core books at the bookstore and i was saying "wow that makes great sense! streamlined! a must have! ill convert my stuff over....wow look it converts easy as heck!!!"
Thanks again, and i hope he comes around on this, since everyone but him was won over after an hour or less of skimming through the phb.
Cheers all. |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 27 Sep 2002 : 09:33:15
Welcome to the Candlekeep Forums, Bonehead!
hmmmmm, quite a problem you have there! How many are in your group? Its good that all the others have given 3rd edition a chance and a quite enjoying it, although I dont understand the problem with not liking the artwork, certainly to a point where they feel the need to cover it with old artwork....1st edition at that!! Still, each to their own!
I think the problem with your player lies with the fact that hes a rules lawyer. He sees himself at the moment, when you play 2nd edtion, as THE guru and master of all knowledge of 2ed, moving to 3ed takes away his status and makes him feel more inferior whereas before he stood tall. It will also make it harder for him due to the fact that the other players havent shown a dislike to 3ed and are quite happy to continue playing with those rules.
What do you think would happen if you told your players that the campaign is on hold until they have all read the 3ed PHB or something?
I suggest to try that method. Maybe just do a few chapters at a time, like "ok, by next game everyone should be familiar with...." I think that if youre all enjoying 3ed then you should stick with it. I was very reluctant to switch to 3ed, but after sitting down with the PHB and DMG and going through it, I found that the rules are much much better, make more sense and are easier to work with, and now i LOVE 3ed! I never thought id see the day but there ya go!
I know that leaving him out isnt an option, but maybe if you called his bluff and stated that youre sticking to 3ed and thats final, then he may learn to embrace it. Many people hate change, its human nature to stick with what you know, knowledge is power and he has that knowledge to make him feel good. If you all agree to learn together then the transition shouldnt be too hard for him.
Hope this helps.
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| BoneHead |
Posted - 27 Sep 2002 : 07:37:31
Well one of my players doesnt like the new rules, or rather, he doesnt want to take the time to get to know them and the new artwork has totally turned him off to 3e.
Ive done all i know to do to get him interested but the only thing that even made him blink in interest was my offer to convert 2e's gothic earth setting to 3e.
I like 3e, seems easier to understand and has plenty of flexibility a creative dm can utilize, but nothing i say will help get this guy into it. He has played about 4 games of 3e (excellent games, all the other players had a blast and he should have to)and now its hard to get him to come over and make a character for it, he was a rules lawyer and doesnt want to take the time to learn the new rules to lawyer with.
To me, aside from artwork, 3e is simpler, easier to add to, interpret, and change, and overall a better system in my opinion, the only thing i miss about 2e is the core rules program.
We all do hate the new generations mentality (wotc's official boards at least)concerning how the game is approached though, you know what i mean, the "magic the gathering" way of thinking that all us vets know is a campaign crippler.
You know, the way they think the game is only run a certain way, the "official" way, and that strict computer like adherence to rules wordings and their incumbent loop holes (cleave + whirlwind, immortal vampires ect), that is silly and counter productive, not the way a rpg is supposed to be.
=================================================================
AnyWay....
Getting rid of him is not an option, we have been gaming together since the 70's, but it seems if i play 3e i have lost him.
The other players are veterans too, but love the new rules minus the artwork (one guy had the unearthed aracana cover laminated over his phb and taped his own sketches over the interior artwork in places)and the only thing they miss about 2e is the core rules as well.
What should i do here?
Go back to 2e to keep my friend in the group?
(the others would do so reluctantly if i retain some of the better features of 3e in our 2e games such as how multiclassing is done)
Put it all on hold until he reads & understands the new rules?
What if after that he still doesnt like them?
Help please!!!!!
Opinions!!! Please!!!
How many here have tried both for at least an entire campaign?
Which did your groups prefer and why?
I am getting depressed someone please help here give me input..... |
| king-tiax |
Posted - 24 Sep 2002 : 20:28:57
I had a Harfling monk called Isodeen Bink once. |
| Strahd Von Zarovich |
Posted - 24 Sep 2002 : 18:46:59
As you know my dear Rad I once played a Halfling, and he was aptly name Meriadoc. A character which is still alive and kicking. Goes to show that the little folk can be quite resilient.
When is all this Gay banter going to stop on these boards. It is getting a little bit boring now. I wish that Tiax would just give it a rest so that Dritz does not have to reply back with even more gay banter.
Please lets get back to a decent forum and stop filling it with your gay spam!
The Count Strahd Von Zarovich
www.strahds-library.co.uk
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| Lord Rad |
Posted - 24 Sep 2002 : 14:18:03
LOL 
I assume you mean "cannon fodder" Tiax?
I think Halflings are very under-rated. I never played one myself and people do tend to stick a "bard" or "thief" tag on them 90% of the time.... has anyone ever played a halfling as another class?
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| king-tiax |
Posted - 24 Sep 2002 : 14:02:18
No, I don't, all they are good for are Theives, or can folders. |
| The Great Drizzt |
Posted - 24 Sep 2002 : 08:20:20
Yea, but not pondlife, its more associated with halfling i would think, i dont like them to much, you?
The Great Drizzt |
| king-tiax |
Posted - 23 Sep 2002 : 20:22:52
year, each to his own, I like the Mason work of skilled Dwarves, the mandratard of Red Wizards, and you, well you like the outcast Elves and other pond life. |
| The Great Drizzt |
Posted - 23 Sep 2002 : 06:17:32
Lol, Well to each his own I guess!
The Great Drizzt
P.S.-OOOOOAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!! |
| king-tiax |
Posted - 20 Sep 2002 : 19:34:39
Well thats good you pointey eared outcarst Drow sucker, J\K, wait a minute no I'm not. |
| The Great Drizzt |
Posted - 20 Sep 2002 : 03:22:21
I have a Dragon campaign setting with dragon character sheets and all, its for 2nd edition, its called Council of the Wyrms, maybe you should pick it up tiax, it'll give you a break from all those lame Dwarf PC's your sooooo in love with. J/K man, I know how you feel, im always a dark elf.
The Great Drizzt |
| king-tiax |
Posted - 19 Sep 2002 : 20:42:39
I wish there were some games where you could be things like Song Dragons. I mean you could turn human and turn into your natural form to fight. |
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