| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Rhezarnos |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 02:48:02
Like the title says, which do you prefer: demons or devils?
Personally, I'd go for devils. All the masterminding is better than just chaotic destruction to me. |
| 29 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 05:00:09
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
What exactly is a "true" Tanaar`ri?
Imps  .
Or rather, imps like to claim that the various fiendish races evolved from their smaller forms.
|
| TymoraChosen |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 02:39:56
Well, quite true, shadovar, in some ways. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 02:21:54
Not really, I beleive they may have other sources of soul energy to supplly themselves with to keep themselves strong and fit, at elast able to survive a fight with say: Heaven's forces. |
| Rhezarnos |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 02:15:49
I see. So they're like the gods in some ways still, right? At least they'll still survive without any followers...weaker, but still alive |
| TymoraChosen |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 01:54:25
Not really in a sense, but feeding on the worshipper soul energy that strengthens them. much in the same way as worshippers of the various gods being strengthened and well sort of kept alive by their followers soul energy. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 01:54:02
Planescape's Faces of Evil: The Fiends is the best source of the fiends. :) It explains what true, lesser, etc, tanar'ri are. Thar book gets int othe fiends habits, what they like to eat, if they sleep, etc. |
| Rhezarnos |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 01:49:15
If the baatezu gain power through their human followers, won't that make them something like gods? Feeding of worship (if you can call it that) of their followers? |
| Alhoon |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 19:09:12
^ hah. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 17:21:27
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
What exactly is a "true" Tanaar`ri?
One that's made locally, instead of being made overseas by cheap labor.  |
| khorne |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 16:06:15
What exactly is a "true" Tanaar`ri? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 05:45:32
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Could someone please clarify the main differences between demons and devils? It's a very broad description for me and I never really think of them since 1st edition being as they have so many variants these days (probably brought on by Planescape).
Which is the more powerful? Which is highest in the hierarchy?
Thanks
From thine archives, and taken from the WotC Message Boards PS Creature Project -
quote:
Baatezu are a strong, evil-tempered, well-organized race of fiends from the Nine Hells of Baator. In their rigid caste system, authority derives not only from power but from station. Changes in station come from participation in the Blood War or (as is more often the case) from the high attrition rate in the upper ranks. If a baatezu performs a great feat that cripples the enemy, it is rewarded by promotion – actually a physical transformation – to a higher station.
The baatezu pursue two obsessive goals. First and foremost, they wish to destroy their ancient blood enemies, the tanar’ri. Both races treat the conflict not only as a war of annihilation, but as a definition of existence. Second, the baatezu have recently (by immortal standards) noticed a small but interesting group of beings: humanity. By infiltrating humankind’s world and gaining followers there, the baatezu gain magical energy and, thus, power over the tanar’ri. Toward this end they strive to dominate humanity by convincing victims they have godlike powers.
Baatezu also pursue a long-range goal of dominion by their whole race throughout the planes. They prefer to encourage humanity’s intellectual evils, such as pride and ambition, rather than the immediate sensual appetites tanar’ri exploit.
The baatezu, with their evil, twisted honor, have a definite path of progress. By performing deeds that further the cause of evil, one gains honors, station, and power. For instance, an enterprising spinagon might advance and, in a long and torturous process, transform into an abishai. Often, too, a baatezu simply “disappears,” whereupon its immediate subordinate takes its place in the chain of command. Covert assassination is common among the baatezu.
In appearance the baatezu are diverse, though a Gothic gargoyle look, grotesque and unsightly by human standards, is common.
Except when otherwise noted, devils speak Infernal, Celestial, and Draconic.
And for the Tanar'ri, also from the same source -
quote:
In Sigil the streets teem with denizens of a thousand planes, and each claims to have visited a thousand more. In every back-alley gambling haunt in the Lower Ward, in half the tiefling halfway houses, in the incense-heavy air of vapor shops where old men debate weird philosophies, tales pass back and forth. Those tales debate the absolutes of the Outer Planes, the greatest and least, loftiest and most base, best and worst. Every tale that turns upon the worst inevitably stops with the place of despair, the infinite bleak layers that represent the suffering and toil of existence made tangible. There chaos and hopelessness reign.
There in the Abyss, where others endure endless torment, the tanar’ri thrive.
The tanar’ri are demons, chaotic evil personified, motivated not by doctrines but by insane, violent inner drives. They tempt mortals into crimes of passion and vice, evils of appetite. Less intelligent tanar’ri often attack without question and fight until slain. Greater tanar’ri roam the planes, driven ceaselessly to seek fresh victims.
The tanar’ri are one of the two major factions in the Blood War. This disordered race wages the Blood War only because true tanar’ri seem to have a primal urge to destroy baatezu. They force those less powerful than themselves to serve their wishes.
|
| SirUrza |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 01:05:57
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Seriously though, if the secrets about the origin and reality of the succubi were actually known, it is likely that neither mortal males or females would find them as attractive no matter how they looked externally.
We need to find out then! :) |
| Arivia |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 18:05:36
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Could someone please clarify the main differences between demons and devils? It's a very broad description for me and I never really think of them since 1st edition being as they have so many variants these days (probably brought on by Planescape).
Which is the more powerful? Which is highest in the hierarchy?
Thanks
Demons and devils are two different groups, each of which has their own power levels and hierarchies.
Collectively, evil outsiders are generally referred to as fiends.
All demons have two things in common: They possess the Chaotic and Evil subtypes, and are denizens of the Abyss. In 3e, not all demons are tanar'ri-the tanar'ri make up the majority of demons, though.
All devils have two things in common: They possess the Lawful and Evil subtypes, and are denizens of the Nine Hells. In 3e, not all devils are baatezu-the baatezu make up the majority of devils, though.
Neither of them is really more powerful then the other-they war with each other in the Blood War, which is quite evenly matched. I'll let someone with a bit more knowledge than me tackle the hierarchy question, as I'm really weak on that.
Heh. I got beaten to this post by a Finn-because I was drooling over the Canadian concert dates for a Finnish band(Children of Bodom). |
| khorne |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 17:47:49
The devils are lawful evil, the demons are chaotic evil. That`s the difference between them summed up in a nutshell. |
| Beowulf |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 16:28:33
My knowledge of demons and devils pretty well begins and ends with 1st Ed. too.
Nevertheless, I think that the primary difference still remains; devils are more thoughtful, cooperative, organized and monolithic in their approach to evil, while demons are more impulse driven, more given to in-fighting, selfishness, and generally just one big, scattered eclectic mess.
This would perhaps explain why 666 layers of them can't defeat a measely 9 layers worth of devils?
|
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 09:56:27
Could someone please clarify the main differences between demons and devils? It's a very broad description for me and I never really think of them since 1st edition being as they have so many variants these days (probably brought on by Planescape).
Which is the more powerful? Which is highest in the hierarchy?
Thanks |
| elven_songstress |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 05:38:51
Devils mainly because I think demon's are heavily over used. |
| Alhoon |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 03:21:59
Demons seem so much more destructive and I prefer the descriptions of the demons more interesting. |
| Defender |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 11:35:43
Well, either way, I will fight them both. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 05:45:01
for me, I rather take on the demons in a all out war than play 'hide and seek' with the devils. *chuckles* |
| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 05:32:49
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Who doesn't like a succubus? :)
The incubi perhaps .
Seriously though, if the secrets about the origin and reality of the succubi were actually known, it is likely that neither mortal males or females would find them as attractive no matter how they looked externally.
|
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 05:15:06
Once you go Daemonfey you never go back. |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 05:12:16
Who doesn't like a succubus? :) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 04:59:17
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Archons!
I'd have to agree with Gray here. Archons it is.
quote:
Oh wait, Devils & Demons are the only choices? Well, if I had a choice of whom I had to deal with, I would prefer devils, as they obey some sort of law and are not as likely as demons to slay me right off the bat.
True. But then given the overall manipulation of laws and contracts that the baatezu are known for, it's just as likely in the long run, to be as dangerous dealing with a devil as it is with a demon.
quote:
As a DM I throw them around pretty evenly, depending on the challenge rating and type of encounter.
I'm pretty much the same, although given the fact that some of the northern realms in my FR campaign are now under the thrall of an reforged devil lord who escaped from his duties in the Blood War, devils have greater influence.
|
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 04:40:20
Wow you're fast Wooly. I wander off for three minutes and you've already responded!
Do either of us have a life? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 04:35:52
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I prefer tanar'ri and baatezu, myself.
Ditto that. It makes them sound more exotic. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 04:25:02
I prefer tanar'ri and baatezu, myself. |
| Karesch |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 04:00:07
For me it really breaks down to what sort of thing I'm doing at the time. They both fill their roles out very well, they're tough and destructive, have good difficulty to them. So it's a matter of, am I adventuring and just looking for a fight, or am I campaigning, and need something at the top of the little pyramid of intrigue?
Similarly if DM'ing, do I need something to just cause some grief for the PC's? or am I looking for the role of the leader to some devious little web of things the PC's have to overcome, and want a fine battle scene for their finally, that lets them look back on it and feel that it wasn't just a, smalltime web of smugglers, or cultists, that they were rooting out, but something somewhat bigger, and more significant?
Kar |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 03:56:46
Archons!
Oh wait, Devils & Demons are the only choices? Well, if I had a choice of whom I had to deal with, I would prefer devils, as they obey some sort of law and are not as likely as demons to slay me right off the bat.
As a DM I throw them around pretty evenly, depending on the challenge rating and type of encounter.
In my Silver Marches campaign I tended to favor devils only because the bad guys were the Arcane Brotherhood, and since Arklem Greeth had made a deal with the devils for lichhood, I figured in exchange he was working to subvert the newly formed Silver Marches and would use a lot of devils as his agents.
I tend to use demons as grunts, when sheer mindless ferocity is called for, and devils when I want fiends with minds to lay more complex plots. |
|
|
