| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Arravis |
Posted - 20 Jan 2005 : 20:39:55
An event took place in my FR campaign world, and I'd like to get your opinions on the fallout of such events.
A 24th level wizard cast the spell "Apocalypse from the Sky" (from the Book of Vile Darkness) over Thay. At that level the spell has a 240 mile radius and caused 10d6 points of sonic damage. We'll assume it did average damage, 30. Since it's sonic, it ignores hardness of objects, buildings, etc. The spell was cast late at night and most of the common populace would be asleep.
What do you guys think the overall effect of this would be? Would there be enough infrastructure left for Zulkirs to still remain in control? How would the refugee situation be? How would neighboring countries react? Well, any suggestions are welcome! Thanks guys! |
| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Varl |
Posted - 11 Feb 2005 : 02:44:05
quote:
The reason for my original post was because the current campaign has come to the time of the apocalypse in Thay. And I simply wanted it to be as accurate as was possible in its effects. I want the gravity of it to be felt by the PC’s, I don’t want to lessen the atrocity any.
It sounds like you want it to occur again, in which case, there's already been plenty of good advice on the effect of such a powerful spell, and the disease and hardship that will result. The only thing I wanted to bring up is the idea that, as with time travel in other entertainment forms, time travel is implied to be dubious at best regarding whether the outcome seen in the future will actually transpire once you go back to the past, meaning, your actions can alter the timeline and affect whether or not the destruction of Thay actually occurs again when the time comes.
If you so deem that this is what you want to occur, no action by the characters will change that, but if you deem that they can make an impact on the timeline and change the course of the future, you need to be prepared for any whiplash from the failure to cast such a powerful spell at the moment it is cast. The massive, multiple vacuums created from the near-total desctruction of a nation is going to have tremendous impacts on the entire region surrounding Thay. If you still decide to take this time path, let's just say I won't envy you on the amount of preparation you should do to explain what happened, what will happen, and why.
From an in-game point of view, it couldn't happen to a nicer country as Thay imo. Heh.  |
| Arravis |
Posted - 04 Feb 2005 : 16:37:13
Well, I've decided to have a compromise level of devistation. Alot of infrastructure is gone, roads, crop fields, cattle, weak buildings, etc. There was much loss of life, probably about 10-20% of the population initially, rising to 20-30% after as the sick died, etc. Many in coastal and border cities who could afford to leave, attempt to do so in fear of another attack. The Zulkir's individually consolidate their power, each trying to gather power from the other in the process. Tam and his undead minions creates large quantities of undead from the victims of the disaster. He shows little interest in bringing stability to individual Tharches, but uses the undead troops to shore up the borders around Thay from invasion. Some areas of Thay near Rashamen and Mulhorand are lost, but the undead do their task well of maintaining most of the borders.
The Zulkirs and other powerful figures of Thay form fiefdoms throughout the land, each using whatever sort of troops they can muster to enforce their laws. This ranges from human and gnoll warriors known to the land, to mercenaries, undead and other odder footsoldiers from unknown places.
Anyway, there we go :). |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 30 Jan 2005 : 01:09:31
quote:
Originally posted by The Whackmiester
Apocalypse from the sky? Damn, I's just gotta get me a Book of Vile Darkness!
You do realize that the spell caster most likely will die from casting the spell, right?
10d5 hit hits in damage, no save
3d6 Con damage.
On average 35 hit points in direct damage, plus 9 .5 in Con damage, rounding down for a level 24 Wizard an additional 96 hit points lost.
There is a chance of not having any Wisdom either 4d6 acerage loss is 14 points. |
| The Whackmiester |
Posted - 30 Jan 2005 : 00:31:55
quote:
Originally posted by Arravis
An event took place in my FR campaign world, and I'd like to get your opinions on the fallout of such events.
A 24th level wizard cast the spell "Apocalypse from the Sky" (from the Book of Vile Darkness) over Thay. At that level the spell has a 240 mile radius and caused 10d6 points of sonic damage. We'll assume it did average damage, 30. Since it's sonic, it ignores hardness of objects, buildings, etc. The spell was cast late at night and most of the common populace would be asleep.
All Across Thay:
Survivors flee into the mountains, caverns, fortresses, what have you, fearing the wrath of this powerful wizard.
Off Topic: Apocalypse from the sky? Damn, I's just gotta get me a Book of Vile Darkness! |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 28 Jan 2005 : 15:40:53
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Arravis
The reason for my original post was because the current campaign has come to the time of the apocalypse in Thay. And I simply wanted it to be as accurate as was possible in its effects. I want the gravity of it to be felt by the PC’s, I don’t want to lessen the atrocity any.
So when are you going to let us know how you decided to handle the spell?
Hear, hear.
And on a further note, I should probably have written earlier that with something this big, the only toss of the die I make is out the window In short, I simply make up an effect that suits my own campaign. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 27 Jan 2005 : 23:26:58
quote:
Originally posted by Arravis
The reason for my original post was because the current campaign has come to the time of the apocalypse in Thay. And I simply wanted it to be as accurate as was possible in its effects. I want the gravity of it to be felt by the PC’s, I don’t want to lessen the atrocity any.
So when are you going to let us know how you decided to handle the spell? |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 24 Jan 2005 : 23:19:31
Well looking a little more it appears the spell has no save. The short descriptor provides. "All in a 10-mile radius/level take 10d6 damage. " so no 5 percent survival of low level. I can not find anything yet relating to cover.
I found this quote about the spell "One spell in particular stands out, because it is almost on the brink of Epic-ness. It's a 9th level corrupt spell called Apocalypse from the Sky. The short...everything in a 10 mile radius (centered on caster) takes 10d6 points of damage. The corruption cost? 3d6 points of con damage and 4d6 points of wisdom. Is this high? Sure. Will I still have my next evil NPC use it to torture my PC's? Definitely. This spell also requires an artifact to be corrupted to power the magic." Which explains the Paladin's sword.
As sonic was used every building with less then 35 hit points is gone, though if the line descriptor is correct cover might not matter.
Cover though is what realy matters, as does location spell was cast form. If cover applies (though with a 10 mile range per level, that seems unlikely) you need to map out line of sight.
I go with all 7th level characters (unless had real high Con) and lower dead (with some higher levels dead as well, most wooden buildings gone, all animals gone, a lot of metal gone. Basically anything with less then 35 hit points gone.
What would be left in my opinion, is many dead bodies and a few strong wood buildings, most stone (though they might have lost wooden doors) buildings.
|
| Arravis |
Posted - 24 Jan 2005 : 21:55:14
I’ve been getting a lot of requests for details on the events surrounding this event. Where to begin…
I will begin with the statement that I’m not an expert on the Forgotten Realms. I’ve played them since they first came out in that lovely grey box, but I’m not a guru or any such thing. I try to run as accurate of a campaign as I can though, but I realize that it is my gaming group’s game world, and not Ed Greenwood’s anymore. I think that’s what he intended anyway, to see what other people would do with his ideas and tales. That’s why I believe, that essentially, there is no such thing as a “wrong” FR campaign. Everyone makes it their own, and that’s what makes it great. This is especially true in a campaign where the entire group plays and DM’s (each with their own knowledge and interpretation of the Realms). We all take turns at the DM’s chairs, but if there was a “main” DM, I suppose that would be me. Anyway, let’s move along…
I guess it all starts when we started a new FR campaign (Run in 3rd edition, but using 2nd edition FR books and upgrading them to 3rd as they came out). My character was a Mulhorandi wizard by the name of Sharantyr (no relation to the ranger). I’ll spare you the long and sad story of Sharantyr’s family; suffice it to say that vengeance against Thayans became a family obsession. This was blessed by Horus-Re himself (before the Times of Trouble), since he still remembers well his once role as god of vengeance. Horus-re gave his family the ability (and a nearly tactile push) to track all those that were responsible for their family’s dark fate. It was part blessing, part curse. The family hobby had a high price to pay, the wiping out of most of the able-bodied, except for the youngest brother, Sharantyr.
The campaign took over two years of real-life time and spanned seven years or so of game time. It was a role-play heavy campaign full of intrigue, ethical dilemmas, and all manner of events. Over that time Sharantyr went from being lawful neutral (nearly lawful good), to lawful evil, to finally neutral evil. He went from being a fervent follower of Horus-Re, to seeing the gods nearly as an enemy and vengeance feeling hollow. The events that had happened during that time shook the foundations of everyone’s ideas of right and wrong, some turning to evil, some turning to good. Enemies became allies, and ally’s enemies. Many close to the group died, and adventuring (and revenge for Sharantyr) begun to loose it’s splendor as the reality of it sunk in. Nothing was clear and the only thing that seemed to have any real foundation were the feelings the characters felt for each other.
In that campaign was that our characters came across a powerful and dark tome holding several spells from the Book of Vile Darkness, Apocalypse from the Sky being one of them (this was when the BoVD first came out). Sharantyr took the tome, hiding it among his books. Quite sometime after that event, the party was journeying in the Nine Hells on a quest to save a friend who had become trapped there. On Avernus they came across a small devil-defended fortress that had been recently damaged in the blood-war. Only a small garrison was left to defend it and the party defeated them and searched the place. There they found what the keep was holding, a powerful artifact of good. The sword of some long lost paladin that had perhaps fallen in that very spot, and the keep was built around it to keep the forces of good from reclaiming it. The power of hell had not yet turned the blade to evil, but it was on that razor’s edge change.
Knowing exactly what was needed for the Apocalypse spell, and a kernel of an idea having germinated, Sharantyr asked for the blade. No one in the group could use the blade, and since the wizard never asked for items they conceded after much discussion. Were in-character lies given and promises made? When have they not been in the search for power?
During this entire game campaign, my wife had kept an in-character journal/diary of all the events therein (the thing is huge, let me tell you). During the times that several in-game months would pass between games and my wife would write detailed accounts of events that transpired (all approved by the gaming group). So in the end the journal encompassed much more then what was done at the gaming table.
When the campaign finally retired Sharantyr had found love and married (to my wife’s character). He had also found a tiny measure of wisdom and had just briefly begun down the road that might one day lead him to redemption.
Though the campaign was finished, over the next year my wife kept writing about what happened to Sharantyr and her character, Runa. She wrote of their life together, the children they had, and all new events. It was great stuff, spawning great characters in the children of the two ex-PC’s.
My wife would often consult with me on how Sharantyr would react, so her stories could be as “accurate” as possible. Over time she gained a keen understanding of Sharantyr’s personality and knew his reactions without even needing to ask. One of the events that occurred in her stories is that Runa, while she was pregnant with their first child, was attacked by Thayan assassins. She barely survived the attack and nearly lost the child. She asked me how would Sharantyr react to this?
I thought long on this, I considered what really drove the wizard to action, what burned inside of him. I thought of the weight of being the last of his family line, the weight of two generations seeking vengeance and never having attained it. I thought of the love he had for his wife and unborn child. I thought of the curse and blessing the child would be born with, to seek vengeance against the Thayans. Sharantyr’s father had doomed his bloodline with Horus-Re’s blessing to always seek revenge, regardless of their own desires.
It was then that I told her of the scroll the wizard had made (why memorize it, when you can cast it from a scroll) and why he had wanted the sword. I told her of the plan Sharantyr had long ago, but had decided against. I told her that after such an event… I saw the fire burning inside him and driving him to such an act. The stage was set; all he needed was a few final steps.
Sharantyr made the last of the dark preparations to the blade and went to Thaymount, and flew high above it. He had already prepared a series of contingencies, conditional spells, potions and other protections before casting that horrible spell. Once cast a battle ensued with Tam himself, which didn’t last long. Sharantyr fled crippled from the battle and barely escaped with his life. He went directly to the Pharaoh in Skuld, the representative of Horus-Re on Faerun.
Barely standing from his wounds he explained that he had extracted revenge on Thay in a way that generations of his family never could. Before he collapsed he asked to be free of the “blessing” that his blood and family had. Wordlessly, the request was granted.
In the end Sharantyr’s family had to flee Aber-Toril, not only to escape the Thayans but the Harpers and all who thought that no one person should have such a spell. They fled to Union, where Sharantyr destroyed all traces of that spell.
Anyway, when a new group (different players from those in the original campaign) was ready to tackle the Forgotten Realms, we had the option of setting it in the standard realms, or in the same FR that the previous campaign had taken place in. We had such a rich pool of interesting NPCs, events, and stories that it seemed like a waste not to use them. So we talked to group and they all agreed eagerly, having heard many of the stories and wishing to be part of that world.
We decided that the new campaign should take place one year after the original campaign had ended. This was before the events in Thay, the fleeing of the family and all that.
My wife wasn’t sure what character to play in this new campaign; she spoke of wanting to play something similar to the daughter of Runa and Sharantyr, Nydia. She was very passionate about the character and had written many stories about her. The last story ended tragically with Nydia researching a new spell and accidentally slaying Runa, her own mother, when the spell was miscast. The family called on all the magics they had to bring her back, but nothing worked, she was gone.
Of course, since Nydia hadn’t even been born yet in the campaign setting, she couldn’t play her… That’s when I researched chronomancy from the old 2nd edition book and the Encyclopedia Arcane: Chronomancy. I gave her the possibility and Nydia’s new story was born. She would attempt to turn back time itself to stop her mother’s death.
No one in the party, save one of the other DM’s, knew her true identity or that she was a time traveler. But as with all good plans, they go wrong. I’ll avoid the details of how she traveled back in time, or what exactly went wrong. Suffice it to say that all her powers and abilities were lost, and she was not when she wanted to be, she had gone back too early. She had gone to the time of the current campaign. How very convenient. She's also finding out that time may not be able to be changed... that perhaps sometimes that we have to live with our sins. But, we shall see what her future holds.
The reason for my original post was because the current campaign has come to the time of the apocalypse in Thay. And I simply wanted it to be as accurate as was possible in its effects. I want the gravity of it to be felt by the PC’s, I don’t want to lessen the atrocity any.
Well, I hope that answers some of the questions you’ve had, though I know I’ve left volumes out. If I can provide any other details, please let me know. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 00:08:15
Minor note, Average 10d6 is 35 hit points, not 30.
As for the spread I do not see vocanoes being effected, though still have not seen the text of the spell.
Arravis does appear to be using a spread rule in campaign. If using this theory instead of an instant effect in the 240 mile area. The hills, building of 35 hit points will stop the effect from causeing harm. One can argue that if it took 34 hit points to take out a building only 1 hit point would continue until used. The building or even a person stoped the spread to its maximun reach. I find this idea unlikely as well.
The spell intent (at least based on name) does not appear to be that limited.
I certainly agree that anything in the open with less then 35 hit points are in great danger. Buildings certainly will colaspe or disappear.
There in ruls does appear to indicate that damage items (re: magic items) continue to work until out of hit points left and becomes broken and unuseable, this inclues doors I wood think. If it take three rounds to chop down a door the door still works the first two rounds.
I expected the sound to travel through the walls at full force causing damage to the walls and contents. The results of course will be far different depending on how it is applied. Even instant duration does often imply a spread, just one that is faster then a free action. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 21 Jan 2005 : 22:55:33
Okay, here's how I'd play it.
Player: I cast Apocalypse from the sky.
DM: Sorry, Mystra won't let you
Joking aside though...
Player casts the spell -> all hell breaks loose, and if your campaign takes place before the events in "Crimson Gold" that's almost meant literally (change hell for really nasty demon).
Pretty much all buildings without magic protection on the second escarpment that hasn't got Thaymount between them and the origin of the blast are turned to nothing but so much gravel as the sonic vibrations pulverizes the mortar of stone buildings and those buildings who manage to remain in somewhat decent condition will be blown to pieces by the following blast of air. Furthermore, those vibrations I mentioned earlier may not be enough to bring down Thaymount, they are however enough to cause some of its volcanoes to erupt... So far this hasn't had any direct influence on the majority of the nation's population though as quote:
originally written in Unapproachable EastThe Thayans do not build great cities here, although a number of well numbered towns populate the southern and western regions of the plateau... ...These lands are unsettled except for the occasional Red Wizard determined to raise a tower in a particularly remote spot. Wild gnolls, orcs, and other humanoids haunt these lands...
Now as for what happens below the second escarpment - Mostly quakes brought about by the sonic vibrations, with the air-blast (thankfully) passing overhead. The effects of these quakes wouldn't be ver large though.
As for long-term effects. Well - I would definately do rolls to see how all zulkir and tharcions on the second escarpment did in terms of surviving the blast, and then have the country fall into a state of disorder lasting from as little as two or three days to as long as a year depending on how many of these prominent figures was killed or severely damaged.
Oh, and if the character that cast the spell isn't chaotic evil already I'd bump him there straight away. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 20 Jan 2005 : 23:15:58
quote:
Originally posted by Arravis
Near Thaymount.
I had assumed that anything indoors is protected, unless the building collapses. The spell wouldn't affect things held in a stone building for example, unless the building itself collapsed. Am I misreading the spell in that? I don't think it would be quite as bad as Kentinal thinks. People indoors may be killed, but I suspect most would live. Parts of a building may collapse, etc. As far as anything left out... yeah, it doesn't look good.
The spell will still take out all commonor buildings. Depending on your interpertation of the spell it might not kill many at all (as I indicated I do not know the text of the spell) because their buildings are all that will disappear. The best I have found so far is the effect is instant. If the spell is a spread anything that blocks the expansion will protect everything beyound the spead. Hills of course will also block the spread if the spell is not sphere in effect. Location of caster becomes a factor, was he flying, on top of a tower or in the middle of a valley.
I see the spell is designed to distroy realms ( based on Kajehase's reply to you) so I infer massive damage to the realm. Sound does pass though walls in RL however the game model certainly can stop sound at wall distristion.
If you correctly infer that buildings prptect people and items inside unless building colaspes, the damage certainly will be far less. I could in fact argue that the spell caused only 30 hot boint buildings disappeared not killing anyone inside (using your theory) if wood id distroyied it can not fall on anyone.
In this case the damage is far less it still can raze the crops, the trees might also suffer (certainly trees 3 inches or less would be gone).
As far as large item hit points go often hit points are described as 10 X 10 with a thickness, this used in seige events, the spell you are using however is attacking every inch of items in area of effect. Only the most hardy or shield should be protected from this.
Best case would be no stone building would be effected of its contents (despite open or broken doors or windows) just have reduced hit points if attacked again. Most wood still would be wiped out, most wood is less then the 3 inches though if just having disappear there would not be falling damage (unless roof had more the 30 hit points due to material and walls did not).
If spell becomes too weak as to damage inflicted it shpold not be even 9th level. Able to kill crops and animals are nice over a large area Druids however can grow crops.
Still might be at least 10 level considering the range of damage done to things outside.
In any case the realm could survive this much easier then my last look at it if this is how you understand the spell.
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| Kajehase |
Posted - 20 Jan 2005 : 22:30:44
quote:
Originally posted by Arravis
Near Thaymount.
I had assumed that anything indoors is protected, unless the building collapses. The spell wouldn't affect things held in a stone building for example, unless the building itself collapsed. Am I misreading the spell in that? I don't think it would be quite as bad as Kentinal thinks. People indoors may be killed, but I suspect most would live. Parts of a building may collapse, etc. As far as anything left out... yeah, it doesn't look good.
Well, a strong enough blast to affect the entire country (it does, I checked), is probably going to be powerful enough to affect even stone structure for at least a part of the blast-radius.
If I were the one describing the effects (supposing I'd allow the thing to happen that is), I'd probably say that every building not magically reinforced on the upper escarpment at least would be razed to the ground. (Most Thayans live on the lower escarpment though, but still...) |
| Arravis |
Posted - 20 Jan 2005 : 22:07:47
Near Thaymount.
I had assumed that anything indoors is protected, unless the building collapses. The spell wouldn't affect things held in a stone building for example, unless the building itself collapsed. Am I misreading the spell in that? I don't think it would be quite as bad as Kentinal thinks. People indoors may be killed, but I suspect most would live. Parts of a building may collapse, etc. As far as anything left out... yeah, it doesn't look good. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 20 Jan 2005 : 22:03:14
quote:
originally posted by Kentinal
though arguable there would be a food supply available from the killed animals.
(sorry for improving the grammar of the sentence Kentinal, no offense meant, just a bad habit I picked up when I did temp-work as a teacher)
Until said animals started to rot. You can see this happening in the real world at the moment with the fishing-industry in the countries affected by the Tsunami in South-east Asia being unable to sell what they get in their remaining nets. (Although I think this is mainly to do with the fact thatthis is mainly due to the fact that the fishes are suspected of having eaten corpses and contracted diseases from that).
quote:
The society would be greatly weaken but however could survive if a strong leader steps forward to deal with what little remains.
Szass Tam?
quote:
I do not have the spell (or the source book) to look at the spell effects, however find that such a spell causes too much damage (based on your description) to be 9th level of lower and currently (at least in FR) 10th and higher are not castable.
The spell designed to distroy everything certainly will do so, however I would not allow that spell to be used in such a way that it would distroy common items.
It's a 9th level spell alright. But I agree with you on it being WAY too destructive, and had I DMed the session I'd have ruled that Mystra wouldn't allow it, telling the player to read her description in Faiths & Pantheons and the 2nd edition sourcebooks if he/she disagreed |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 20 Jan 2005 : 21:49:44
Working on an answer, but before I really get going I need one more detail... Where in Thay is the centre of the blast located?
After some measuring with my ruler I've already noticed that unless the event took place in the eastern part of the country it will affect parts of Thesk as well (I made my measurements with Thaymount at the centre), so if that country is also affected I suppose there could be a chance that the neighbouring countries would instinctively try to help Thesk before Thay. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 20 Jan 2005 : 21:46:49
quote:
Originally posted by Arravis
What do you guys think the overall effect of this would be? Would there be enough infrastructure left for Zulkirs to still remain in control? How would the refugee situation be? How would neighboring countries react? Well, any suggestions are welcome! Thanks guys!
Lets see, all paper and glass distroyied, wook buildings less then 3 inches thick also gone, many stone buildings uneffected. 95 percent of all low level gone (A nactural 20 always saves), no rope left, no leather left, a lot of metal gone as most is less then one ince thick, even small stones gone. Most tools gone as well.
Magical equipment and attended equipment gets a save as well so 95 percent of guards on duty will certainly have there equipment they are wearing (could be a little more as a roll of one does not take out all equipment.
The economy is distroyed that is certain with a major lose of life and equipment.
How bad would it be it could be very bad, applying sonic effect to everything stored food would be wiped out, fields rased, there though arguable be a food supply available from the killed animals.
If you allow the spell effect to distroy all items that fail a save and have less then 30 hit points there will not be much left, including people. The spell books will be gone as well as clothes and food and tools.
The only power force would be the armed guards, high levels that survived the attack, Clerics (whill using holy symbol , if not sleeping with it on) would be weakened some, the Wizards in dire striats, the Sor and Bards would become a power force.
There would not be that much of a reugue problem because so few would be left and those fleeing would have nothing at all.
The society would be greatly weaken but however could survive if a strong leader steps forward to deal with what little remains.
The biggest issue would be food creation, followed closely with by item ceation. The society certainly will be extremely weak its effective ability to defend itself would be reduced to something of an order of 1 percent of pervious ability. There also would be later deaths resulting from pnic, lack of food, exposure (depending on local conditions) could also kill more then half of those that survived.
I do not have the spell (or the source book) to look at the spell effects, however find that such a spell causes too much damage (based on your description) to be 9th level of lower and currently (at least in FR) 10th and higher are not castable.
The spell designed to distroy everything certainly will do so, however I would not allow that spell to be used in such a way that it would distroy common items.
As far as the Zulkirs with the loss of their spell books and no paper availble easy odds are they would lose control, the only spells they would have are memorised ones and would take time for them to get new spell books written. That period of time would allow for others to enter the area and hunt down the wizards. In time if the Zulkirs manage to arrange that they certainly might be able to regain control, some spell boos of course could survive if a wizard had one on body at time of attack. Others could use books that survive to at least try to relearn spells.
A lot depends on how much distruction you impose on the area. I can see it turning into a desert with trees growing. I suspect the spell intent was not designed to do that much distrustion it is worst then Earthquake (Level 8) by seveval orders by the area of effect and damage it does. |
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