| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Kuje |
Posted - 06 Dec 2004 : 23:42:50
Here's a debate that has been raging on the WOTC boards. Yes I know what the 2e and 3e lore says on the topic also.
What it now boils down to is could half-elves wield high magic in canon official FR?
The 2e books as well as the 3/3.5e sourcebooks make this clear but there is this one poster, after being told that half-elves are not elven enough to wield High Magic, still disagrees. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 25 Aug 2015 : 02:05:23
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
There was also a short story (I think it's in Realms of Infamy, because I know it's really old and I don't have that book) that describes the creation of the sahuagin by the drow back in the days of the Crown Wars.
It doesn't describe the creation of the sahuagin by the drow back in the days of the Crown Wars. It frames a story told by a non-elf that describes the creation of the sahuagin by an archmage from Ilythiir back before the Crown Wars.
quote:
Originally posted by Senbar Flay
but waht about the Avariel can they use High Magic and the star elves must be able to since they used high magic to create that demiplane they live in right?
Probably, though human archmages create demiplanes all the time, and without HM.
As to the Avariel, they have good sense a curious inclination to steer clear of all other elves unless the cooperation is absolutely necessary.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Jul 2006 : 14:52:12
quote:
Originally posted by Akryn
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
They were both 2E products, so they're out of print. Cormanthyr is available as a free download, here.
And for a fee, Elves of Evermeet can be downloaded here.
Is it just me or does this not work anymore? :( Is there another location where i could downloads this for free?!
Cheeerios..
SV Games no longer offer TSR products as PDF downloads. They changed their policy mid-last year.
Instead, I suggest you try paizo.com for the same PDF of Elves of Evermeet for just $4US.
|
| Akryn |
Posted - 20 Jul 2006 : 12:59:01
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
They were both 2E products, so they're out of print. Cormanthyr is available as a free download, here.
And for a fee, Elves of Evermeet can be downloaded here.
Is it just me or does this not work anymore? :( Is there another location where i could downloads this for free?!
Cheeerios.. |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 20 Jul 2006 : 11:16:40
quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
Funny enough, I do not think anyone pointed out that Eliminster participated in the creation of the Myth Drannor Mythal, which is an elven high magic ceremony if my memory serves me right. That would have helped halfway through this discussion. 
my sketchy memory tells me in second edition rules, the Mythal in Myth Drannor was a wizardly mythal? Why would Mythalanthar (sp?) have to ahve researched it if it was high magic? the Cormanthor mythal certainly wasn't the first mythal
Mythanthar had to research it as a wizardly mythal because he'd suffered a backlash as a High Mage and was stripped of those abilities to use High Magic directly. Thus, he tried to do an end-run around it by making what's now referred to as an epic-level spell.
All things considered, I think he did an okay job. At least his work's still around and getting better again...
Steven |
| GothicDan |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 22:01:50
I'd love to know some of the mechanics behind the High Magic Ritual being used in Steve's novel, too. ;)
Yeah, I finally managed to procure a copy of it, and - as I always do - I skipped to the back and read a little bit. |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 21:59:09
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
No, Elven High Magic was traditionally passed down from mentor to student, if I remember correctly. Which was one of the ways that it differed from standard wizardry, and which was why, when some Rituals were lost, you couldnm't just research them again.
And yes, Myth Drannor's Mythal was Wizardly, but it still required that the primary caster be an elf, and it still required other spellcasters to participate in it.
Thats true..and thats thy non-pureblood elves could participate in the raising of the mythal in cormanthor..
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| GothicDan |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 21:44:21
No, Elven High Magic was traditionally passed down from mentor to student, if I remember correctly. Which was one of the ways that it differed from standard wizardry, and which was why, when some Rituals were lost, you couldn't just research them again.
And yes, Myth Drannor's Mythal was Wizardly, but it still required that the primary caster be an elf, and it still required other spellcasters to participate in it. |
| Wandering_mage |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 21:37:31
 Don't you have to research high evlen magic? Like from the notes of people who have used it before and to manipulate it into creating...mythals? I'm no pro so lemme know if I am wrong.  Wouldn't be the first time.  |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 21:06:48
quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
Funny enough, I do not think anyone pointed out that Eliminster participated in the creation of the Myth Drannor Mythal, which is an elven high magic ceremony if my memory serves me right. That would have helped halfway through this discussion.
my sketchy memory tells me in second edition rules, the Mythal in Myth Drannor was a wizardly mythal? Why would Mythalanthar (sp?) have to ahve researched it if it was high magic? the Cormanthor mythal certainly wasn't the first mythal |
| GothicDan |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 21:05:46
Elminster was in the Secondary Circle, which allowed those of non-Elven blood even in the old rules. :) |
| Wandering_mage |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 20:52:21
Funny enough, I do not think anyone pointed out that Eliminster participated in the creation of the Myth Drannor Mythal, which is an elven high magic ceremony if my memory serves me right. That would have helped halfway through this discussion. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 02:51:16
Small wonder elves are a bit hesistant to teach other races elven high magic because of their parental mindset....still occassionally they got their hands "burnt" playing around with magic like the Netherese. |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 02 Jul 2005 : 17:46:43
quote:
Originally posted by Arlenion
I believe that in Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves( although I am not sure) it states that High Magic is a manifestation of elven unity and the support of the elven race for the individual. Very few half-elves would be supported in this fashion by elves as a whole and would therefore lack the ability to use High Magic.
Just remember this--the assumption on many sections of CORMANTHYR was either that this was lore of the elves about the elves or observations and writings by humans and others about elves. The idea that High Magic could ONLY be done because of elven blood is a sound one, but it's also just as likely to be elven propaganda to keep humans from repeating the same abuses the Netherese did after they learned magic from the elves and then going off on wild tears....
After all, in my mind, most elves (whether they realize it or not) have a parental sort of "we know better and are protecting you from yourselves" sort of attitude. Y'all have seen it--Khelben's got the same mindset 75% of the time....
Steven
Who knows that the truths behind the Realms (and life in general) are as slippery as an underdone eel hand-tart from Mother Tathlorn's... |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 04:37:48
I know that gold/silver/copper elves generally do not start learning High Magic traditionally unti age 300, but I would imagine that Avariel traditions might be different, especially WAY back when the Mythal would have been created. Of course for that matter Avariel life spans might have been longer back then as well. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 04:35:28
quote:
Originally posted by StromLancer
So that means we may see avariel high mages very soon?
All things are posible in the Realms, though last time I looked the short life avariel just do not have enough time to even start to learn High Magic due to old age. Of course 3.x might have extended how long they live and the training rules have been droped. Also of course from all indications High Magic has been droped as well, replaced by Elven Epic Magic (still have not found any notable difference from Epic magic).
There also ha been asserted that 3.x rovides for rapid advancement that even the 300 expected life span would not pervent reaching character lvel to 20 (and beyound) wirh in a few years of game time. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 04:27:30
quote:
Originally posted by StromLancer
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I'm still betting my gold on the Mythal in the Year of Rogue Dragons being of Avariel origin, thus showing Taegan that his people have a lot more depth than he realizes. It seems like it would make sense, since Dragons of long ago considered avariels tasty snacks that had the added benefit of giving them a good workout before supper . . .
So that means we may see avariel high mages very soon?
Interesting, Avariel High Mages? So that refers to what Taegan call "Avariel Wizardry"? |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 04:26:20
Hey, I'm just guessing, but that seems to my feeble mind to be the direction that everything is heading. If I'm right someone can buy me a bottle of Garnet Wine . . . |
| StromLancer |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 04:22:43
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I'm still betting my gold on the Mythal in the Year of Rogue Dragons being of Avariel origin, thus showing Taegan that his people have a lot more depth than he realizes. It seems like it would make sense, since Dragons of long ago considered avariels tasty snacks that had the added benefit of giving them a good workout before supper . . .
So that means we may see avariel high mages very soon? |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 04:14:43
I'm still betting my gold on the Mythal in the Year of Rogue Dragons being of Avariel origin, thus showing Taegan that his people have a lot more depth than he realizes. It seems like it would make sense, since Dragons of long ago considered avariels tasty snacks that had the added benefit of giving them a good workout before supper . . . |
| Sandhrune |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 00:48:58
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
There was also a short story (I think it's in Realms of Infamy, because I know it's really old and I don't have that book) that describes the creation of the sahuagin by the drow back in the days of the Crown Wars. The reason the drow (whose name I forget, he also shows up in Evermeet Island of Elves) created them was he wanted to study sea elven magic. So he created a whole bunch of pearls to capture the souls of slain sea elven mages and unleashed his hordes.
That short story was in Realms of the Arcane, "Secrets of Blood, Spirits of the Sea" , by Elaine Cunningham. |
| Arlenion |
Posted - 30 Jun 2005 : 17:26:52
I believe that in Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves( although I am not sure) it states that High Magic is a manifestation of elven unity and the support of the elven race for the individual. Very few half-elves would be supported in this fashion by elves as a whole and would therefore lack the ability to use High Magic. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 21:37:58
Right. Maybe passed down from generation to generation from parent to most-worthy child. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 20:27:21
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I would say that the avariel could use High Magic (and most likely did during their golden age), but that any High Mages they might have had were killed off long ago. Remember, there's only about a 1000 left. I don't think that's a high enough population to support High Magi.
Or, at most, only 1 or 2 High Magi... |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 19:02:06
I would say that the avariel could use High Magic (and most likely did during their golden age), but that any High Mages they might have had were killed off long ago. Remember, there's only about a 1000 left. I don't think that's a high enough population to support High Magi. |
| Senbar Flay |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 18:43:09
Hi I was reading through the thread and it seemed to eventually answer its qwestions about sea elves and half elves but waht about the Avariel can they use High Magic and the star elves must be able to since they used high magic to create that demiplane they live in right? |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 23:17:25
There was also a short story (I think it's in Realms of Infamy, because I know it's really old and I don't have that book) that describes the creation of the sahuagin by the drow back in the days of the Crown Wars. The reason the drow (whose name I forget, he also shows up in Evermeet Island of Elves) created them was he wanted to study sea elven magic. So he created a whole bunch of pearls to capture the souls of slain sea elven mages and unleashed his hordes.
What he didn't know (I don't think) is that with those souls out of circulation, magic ability began to die out of the sea elves until it was entirely gone. It wasn't until Anarzee's transformation that magic began to move back into them.
All that's for the outer sea. For the Sea of Fallen Stars I can see either of two ideas, and I can't decide which is more likely: 1) the sahuagin didn't focus much of the small(er) sea, leaving the original sea elven magic alone, or 2) the sea elves lost it and then got it back virtually immidiately thanks to all the Crown Wars refugees. Either way, for thousands of years after the Crown Wars, the Outer Sea had no magic and the Inner Sea had magic up the wazoo, complete with High Magic. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Dec 2004 : 14:09:50
quote:
Originally posted by Lina
Thanks. I actually know a retailer that has some of the older out-of-print FR novels in stock. That's where I got some of the Sembia series from, in particular the Halls of Stormweather which isn't in print. Plus I think I saw Cormanthyr, Elves of Evermeet, a complete set of the Songs & sword series and the Moonshae triology.
Whoa, that's some good stuff, there. Clean off their shelves, chica! |
| Lina |
Posted - 12 Dec 2004 : 07:08:41
Thanks. I actually know a retailer that has some of the older out-of-print FR novels in stock. That's where I got some of the Sembia series from, in particular the Halls of Stormweather which isn't in print. Plus I think I saw Cormanthyr, Elves of Evermeet, a complete set of the Songs & sword series and the Moonshae triology. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Dec 2004 : 17:05:07
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
They were both 2E products, so they're out of print. Cormanthyr is available as a free download, here.
And for a fee, Elves of Evermeet can be downloaded here.
Or, if you prefer the print versions, you can likely find them on eBay. I'm sure someone else will chime in with suggestions for other retailers. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 08 Dec 2004 : 15:45:56
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
They were both 2E products, so they're out of print. Cormanthyr is available as a free download, here.
And for a fee, Elves of Evermeet can be downloaded here. |
