| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| jinat |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 17:30:38
What real world ethnicities would correspond to the ones listed in the Players Guide to Faerun and Races of Faerun. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Jul 2004 : 06:41:34
jinat, to better answer your last question, here's a couple things trimmed out of responses to questions on the "Ask Ed" scroll...
quote:
Alexandra (or Zandilar; which do you prefer?), yes, the "original" Realms had many lesbian, gay male, inter-race, and multiple-partner unions (as a matter of calm, everyday norm), but these were simply omitted from the printed version because of TSR's standards (which even forced the change of the word "brothel" on my maps to be changed to "festhall"). And no, to everyone, I'm not a lust-fixated man, I was merely taking the National Geographic approach: "I'm merely reporting what the natives are, and do..."
quote:
In ‘my’ Realms, there’s no stigma attached to homosexual relationships, only to any sexual behaviour that involves exploiting children, and any sexual behaviour that involves force or coercion (please note: WILLINGLY undergoing pain or bondage doesn’t count).
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Jul 2004 : 22:41:07
I'd have to look for the exact quote when I get home, but according to Ed, Faerûnians are a lot more open about such things than we are. I believe his general statement was that so long as all involved are consenting adults, no one is going to pay too much attention to it. |
| jinat |
Posted - 06 Jul 2004 : 19:33:52
[/quote]
It adds depth to roleplay - and depending on the amount of detail one dedicates to the creation of PCs - and, to the character as well.
[/quote]
Amen to that sage. Its the little cultural details here and there that add atmosphere and depth to your FR setting. And it helps to have comparisions. Do you think that Suneites practice polygammy ? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 05:26:05
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
So, any way, the point is that such things can easily come as part of religion, as you pointed out. Of course, it's not necessary. Sometimes normal, secular events produce such traditions. After all, a visitor from the planet Lirot-Riba might look at the United States this weekend, see all the people exploding things in the sky and eating mostly the same type of food -- a long piece of meat (or meat-substitute) in a bit of baked plant matter. Often cooked the same way, outdoors at a sort of small alter, presided over by a priest with a white half-robe at some locations, after which the food is shared among the congregation.
That's a rather interesting point Bookwyrm. It's also an aspect of gameplay that I've dedicated some significant attention to. I like to think that such "small" cultural customs are at play regularly across many of the cities and nations in the Realms.
I've only put together a few notes so far (and mostly about Waterdeep and other small hamlets in the North), but it's a project that I wish to expand in order to include most of the Western Heartlands. One example includes details on the different eating and dietary habits of the various wards within the city.
It adds depth to roleplay - and depending on the amount of detail one dedicates to the creation of PCs - and, to the character as well.
|
| Windancer |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 03:08:05
That is a fact. There are many different people in the realms. I for one am a half elf who travels the realms. |
| Capn Charlie |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 13:28:39
don't even get me started with a theological discussion using real orld religions as examples, we could be here all night, and likely pull down the wrath of more than one faith upon my heads as a result.
THing is, I was suggesting it asa quaint custom in a small town somehere, with perhaps a light nap afterwards. I was picturing it more in the late afternoon, like around four or five o clock. Assuch it is a day capper in the winter, and a respite from working oneself to death in the long summer days. Likely you are right though, however I might stay away from doing it once per tenday, unless this is somehow part of the inspiration for the now opular rest day. |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 12:37:57
I mentioned ruined castles. I didn't do any more than that, though, because it was the ones you can actually get into that were in question. I suppose you could sneak into a ruined one to play, but that would require complete stealth -- which means, likely, no lights. And while some of us play characters with darkvision, I doubt any of the players do.
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
With sembia's culture, it might be interesting to develop at least one region there with some old tradition where even in that country the people of a city sit down to a long two hour meal in the afternoon. Perhaps the story behind it is that at some point a god chided the populace for working themselves too hard, never enjoying one of the finest things of life. A commandment that is likely to be followed and embellished upon.
I don't know much about Sembia. However, I could imagine a goddess like Chauntea saying something like that. Or Lliira, perhaps. This might not mean a two-hour meal every day, but if there were some religious point to it, then perhaps once a week/tenday. And it could have been something very simple that was suggested.
I would point to real life, where the Jews (and some Christians) interperate the command to "Keep the Sabbath holy" as "Don't dare do anything to anger God -- in fact, don't do anything at all." Yes, it's simplistic, and doesn't carry everything. And the Jews were looking for rules like this. Every other people had things like this, where the priests instituted all these rules. I don't even think they knew it, but they probably couldn't imagine religion without it.
Well, I'd been planning on more things to say, but I think I've wandered off enough.  I was even planning on a mention of Judeo-Muslim dietary habits . . . . 
So, any way, the point is that such things can easily come as part of religion, as you pointed out. Of course, it's not necessary. Sometimes normal, secular events produce such traditions. After all, a visitor from the planet Lirot-Riba might look at the United States this weekend, see all the people exploding things in the sky and eating mostly the same type of food -- a long piece of meat (or meat-substitute) in a bit of baked plant matter. Often cooked the same way, outdoors at a sort of small alter, presided over by a priest with a white half-robe at some locations, after which the food is shared among the congregation.
|
| Sarelle |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 10:42:51
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
I had thought that ther were still some castles not so heavily regulated? More than a few I have read stil rent out rooms, but those are likely not in britain.
Several, actually. Remember, Britain is the island, not a country. Most of the English castles aren't open to the public, either because they're too old or they're privately owned. Anne McCaffery owns a Scottish castle she calls Dragonhame, actually. (I think that was the name.) I'm jealous. Though I have to wonder what the heating bill is like. 
The Welsh castles (or rather, English castles built in Wales) are in very good condition. I don't think any of them rent out rooms, but you can get a lot of walking tours.
Smaller castles do rent out rooms; this is both from people who buy the castles for that purpose, or from people who find that it's really hard to keep up their ancestral homes. I can't name any right now, but they're there.
In Ireland, there are at least two castles that are big tourist attractions. One (Dunbire? I can't remember) gives nightly feasts with traditional style (meaning it's finger-food), with mead and wine. Lots of dancing, song, and two people are chosen to be king and queen. (And someone gets thrown in the dungeon.  )
None of these, though, are likely to let people just come in with a gaming table. You might be able to set it up ahead of time, but I doubt it. You'd have better luck with one of the old-style taverns, I think. Even then the price wouldn't be worth it, in my opinion.
Ah but you speak of the castles that are restored, or constantly kept up like Windsor, or Tudor to Victorian mock-castles. Medieval castles, for the most part, are in ruins, and are looked after by the national Trust, to serve as tourist attractions. At least to my knowledge.
However, thinking back, I did have the opportunity to play D&D in a castle - one on a Greek island was wholly unregulated, and very often free of tourists. We used to go up there an awful lot. Of course in Greece I didn't have my gaming group, my books or my table.... but looking back I think playing D&D in the castle ruins would have been envigorating.
But yes, back to Realms ethnicities. |
| Capn Charlie |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 07:04:50
Or at least an application of some real world styles of eating and philosophies to the realms.
Ever since Ed's writeup of Turmish Cuisine I have been picturing it more and more with a very mediteranean feel.
What portion of the realms has a feel that is conducive to relaxive and drawn out dining? I could see certain parts of Sembia very much like the wy Venice was in the 1300s. With sembia's culture, it might be interesting to develop at least one region there with some old tradition where even in that country the people of a city sit down to a long two hour meal in the afternoon. Perhaps the story behind it is that at some point a god chided the populace for working themselves too hard, never enjoying one of the finest things of life. A commandment that is likely to be followed and embellished upon. |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 06:40:53
But we should probably start talking about Realms ethnicities again, don't you think? |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 06:38:45
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
I have always been enamoured of ITalian food, especially the spices, seasonings and emphasis on tomatoes and carbs, but now find I aam in love wit htheir philosophy as well.
Sadly, anymore, I find I have to go to a good all you can eat joint to be left the hell alone enough to enjoy a lengthy meal, and be finished when I say I am, not some idiot with a spatula and half a high school education.
Well, if you ever come to DC, I'll direct you to a nice Italian resturaunt that I've never been kicked out of. No waiters, though they bring it to you. It's like a fast food place in some respects, but that's hard to do in an Italian way. (You'd be surpised at what the McDonald's places -- all four of them -- in Rome are like. Standard McD fare is less than half the menu.) The owner likes me -- I'm one of the few people whom he talks to that can speak enough Italian to at least order lunch.
(I was surprised at that -- every "Italian" place I'd been to in the US never had Italian speakers. But I decided to try this place and ordered in Italian, as I usually do -- it confuses the staff. But he just nodded and got my food.  ) |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 06:30:32
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
I had thought that ther were still some castles not so heavily regulated? More than a few I have read stil rent out rooms, but those are likely not in britain.
Several, actually. Remember, Britain is the island, not a country. Most of the English castles aren't open to the public, either because they're too old or they're privately owned. Anne McCaffery owns a Scottish castle she calls Dragonhame, actually. (I think that was the name.) I'm jealous. Though I have to wonder what the heating bill is like.
The Welsh castles (or rather, English castles built in Wales) are in very good condition. I don't think any of them rent out rooms, but you can get a lot of walking tours.
Smaller castles do rent out rooms; this is both from people who buy the castles for that purpose, or from people who find that it's really hard to keep up their ancestral homes. I can't name any right now, but they're there.
In Ireland, there are at least two castles that are big tourist attractions. One (Dunbire? I can't remember) gives nightly feasts with traditional style (meaning it's finger-food), with mead and wine. Lots of dancing, song, and two people are chosen to be king and queen. (And someone gets thrown in the dungeon. )
None of these, though, are likely to let people just come in with a gaming table. You might be able to set it up ahead of time, but I doubt it. You'd have better luck with one of the old-style taverns, I think. Even then the price wouldn't be worth it, in my opinion. |
| Capn Charlie |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 06:29:10
I have always been enamoured of ITalian food, especially the spices, seasonings and emphasis on tomatoes and carbs, but now find I aam in love wit htheir philosophy as well.
Sadly, anymore, I find I have to go to a good all you can eat joint to be left the hell alone enough to enjoy a lengthy meal, and be finished when I say I am, not some idiot with a spatula and half a high school education. |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 06:20:59
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Of course, they also are jealous that I've been to Heidelberg castle in Germany.
What, not Nueschwanstein? (I'm probably spelling that one wrong -- phonetically it's Noi-shvan-styne.) That's the castle that Walt Disney copied. Personally, it's interior is decadent. Far too many golds and reds and such. Its grounds, construction, and walkways are good, though.
Just watch out when you're there in winter. My father fell down the hill. When he got back to the US embassy, he told his coworkers that the bruises on his face were from his wife.
Personally, for castle feels, you can't go wrong with Carcassone in southern France. It's not only the best preserved castle in continental Europe, it's also the longest-used. It was started by the Romans, and people just kept adding on. You can find enough achetectual styles there to get your imagination runing for just about any setting.
A good one I've been to in Italy is the Rocca Majore (the Big Rock) in Assisi. It's a nice little place that you can go looking at for the idea of a frontier fort. It wasn't one, but that was what I thought it looked like. Small but well-defended. It's surprising that it wasn't bigger, considering that Assisi was pretty important at that time. However, it was also one of the last forts built in Europe. With better and better cannon coming into play, it simply wasn't worth it any more. |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 06:09:44
quote:
Originally posted by Gerath Hoan
Someday i wish there could be a sucessful movie or tv drama that completely bursts the English or British stereotype in America...
I was listening to an American professor of history the other day. He'd once been the chair of the history department at Oxford, and he had some insight into the differences between American and British attitudes.
He said that the worst thing you can be in Britan is a bore, while the worst thing in America is to be a fake. (One wonders why plastic surgery's so popular then, but moving on . . . .) He drew a conclusion that the British automatically consider American seriousness to be one heck of a bore, while Americans can't stand people who pretend to be something they're not.
Now, I don't know how far that goes. I know plenty of unserious Americans, but the culture as a whole is built around being successful. British culture I don't actually know much about, or at least not enough to let myself guess. However, I can understand the Italian view -- never rush when it isn't necessary. (However, if you have a car, it's apparently very necessary. ) They, too, find American attitudes boring.
(There was a recent radio ad for an Italian resturaunt that summed that up: "Americans say things like 'I'm going to grab some food,' or 'I'm going to do lunch.' What is all this doing and grabing?" Having lived there, I know: the worst thing you can do in Italy is rush through a good meal.) |
| Faraer |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 22:48:26
There's more public access to Stonehenge than there was a few decades ago, for instance at the recent summer solstice. (The druids, i.e. the people who call themselves druids, had special-occasion access for some years before that.)
Been meaning to visit Avebury for months. Must get act together and do it. |
| Capn Charlie |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 19:46:52
You mean there aren't troupes of dancing, singing chimney sweeps running around over there? The dream is dead then, I guess...
I had thought that ther were still some castles not so heavily regulated? More than a few I have read stil rent out rooms, but those are likely not in britain.
No, seriously, it wasn't so much a stereotype of britons, more of gamers in general. I have personally spent hours rummaging around ruins several hundred years old, and doing all manner of questionable things to get a feel for a period, myself.
Maybe it is a matter of perspective, but I for one would be in castles twelve hours a day if they were around, just going through them stone by stone for the atmosphere.
But, I guess, that would get old pretty quick. I know I for one got over the whole romance of the cowboy/pioneer by the time I was twelve, so I reckon that europeans would likewise be "over" the whole medievil thing by then as well.
Oh, and by the way, I ain't no colonial, I'm a native!  So I know all about woefully misinformed steretypes, and ludicrous notions. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 19:09:21
quote:
Originally posted by Gerath Hoan
Someday i wish there could be a sucessful movie or tv drama that completely bursts the English or British stereotype in America...
What? Keen Eddie didn't do that? People, I can only take so many shocks in one day.
By the way for all the UK scribes, lovely country. The two ladies in my life are deeply jealous that I've been and they haven't.
Of course, they also are jealous that I've been to Heidelberg castle in Germany. Unfortunately, I didn't game there although I really should have thought of it as the group I was with at the time would have gone for something like that. |
| Gerath Hoan |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 19:04:00
Someday i wish there could be a sucessful movie or tv drama that completely bursts the English or British stereotype in America...
For example: I love Family Guy, but the episode with that English twerp makes my skin crawl. I know its mostly tongue in cheek, but its not even a good pastiche.
Anyway, as for unusual gaming locations, i live not far from the Avebury stone circle in Wiltshire (part of the west country of England), and we've had outdoor gaming sessions there before now. If you get chance do a search about Avebury on the net, not as famous as Stonehenge but in terms of sheer area and volume of historical sights nearby it beats it hands down. Plus you can walk amongst the stones and actually touch them... or even sit in the one known ominously as "The Devil's Chair"  |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 18:50:10
quote:
Originally posted by Sarelle
 Oh for the American view of Britons - we could well live in quaint gum-drop houses, armed with rapiers and whistling cockney tavern tunes with incredibly high-class accents. (No offence to Americans intended here.)
Wait a minute! You don't?!! Thanks for ruining my nice mental image.
I'm gone. I'm going to put in the DVD to My Fair Lady and return to my nice delusional state free of Sarelle's influence.
SiriusBlack (Proud Colonial for over three decades...just in case Britain ever makes a comeback over here again, I like to stay on their good side). |
| Sarelle |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 18:46:18
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
Ok, Sarelle, this is completely off topic and has little to do with anything, but...
Have you ever played dnd in a castle or in stonehenge? Somehow I jsut think that would be quite awesome...
Oh for the American view of Britons - we could well live in quaint gum-drop houses, armed with rapiers and whistling cockney tavern tunes with incredibly high-class accents. (No offence to Americans intended here.)
Bookwyrm is correct - Stonehenge is closed off to the public, both sadly and for the best. As for castles - I can't imagine a group setting up a gaming table being welcomed by the National Trust. From what I know of them they would set four-leaf-clover hell hounds on us, and curse our descendants. Seriously - castle ruins have to respected, not used to help crank up a D&D atmosphere.
Even if there weren't these complications the thought would just never have occurred to me - and probably more British gamers - save, possibly, for those who play a party of Eldath-worshippers, spend too much time sneaking into Stonehenge as is, and tend to smoke too much of a certain substance (i.e. my dad minus the D&D aspect!) |
| Capn Charlie |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 07:53:23
Hmm, just recently I thought I saw a bunch of druids and revelers in and around stonehenge for the solstice. It might have been stock footage they were using though.
Anyhow, we weren't supposed to do a lot of thingss, in a lot of places, when I was younger. We still did them anyway. And it is just a 15 foot cyclone fence with a single strand at the top, in the last video I saw, I have climbed worse to get a drink of water. |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 07:15:43
Stonehenge? How could he? Last I heard, Stonehenge was closed off to all public access. I recall some of the druids were upset about that. |
| Capn Charlie |
Posted - 30 Jun 2004 : 22:34:44
Ok, Sarelle, this is completely off topic and has little to do with anything, but...
Have you ever played dnd in a castle or in stonehenge? Somehow I jsut think that would be quite awesome... |
| Sarelle |
Posted - 30 Jun 2004 : 18:00:17
*Points to location*
I'm actually holed up within the Barrens myself, so I'm allowed a bit of criticism. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 30 Jun 2004 : 03:15:08
quote:
Originally posted by Sarelle
Skullport = London
or possibly
Barrens of Doom and Despair = London
Not even going to touch that one. Nope....knew too many people from the UK....they can be intimidating to us colonials. |
| Sarelle |
Posted - 30 Jun 2004 : 00:54:09
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
[quote]
Waterdeep = London (Which made me long to see London again. Next time I need to walk up to a person on the street and say, "Take me to your ruler. I demand to see Piergeiron!"
 LMAO! 
Whoever posted that... needs to take a trip to Britain. I think London was as much Waterdeep - even back in Medieval times - as Sirius loves Realms Prestige Classes. A more appropriate comparison, speaking first-hand:
Skullport = London
or possibly
Barrens of Doom and Despair = London |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 29 Jun 2004 : 07:52:14
Most people who've been here for more that a few months probably think of me as a champion of realism in fiction, both mine and those of other people.
Guess what? It only goes so far. There comes a point where realism gets in the way. There comes a point where you have to fudge something to give people a connection to the setting. I consider that to be the reason for such things as the Calimshan/Arabia connection. It doesn't work completely, but it's a sort of measuring stick.
Now, some might point out that this sounds like hypocrasy. After all, I railed against something like Maztica. However, that's a wholesale lift. And really, I was arguing against the story it was brought forth in -- Cortez in the Realms.
For ethnicity, there are some things that are pretty inevitable. Unlike D&D race (which is actually species), ethnicity ("race" in the Real World) is an indication of climate. In some cases things like diet as well -- I'm an archetypical Paleskin, the male WASP that was the "elite" American for so long (thank goodness I didn't grow up with that). My ancestors' diet was poor, and lacking in certain vitamins; especially vitamin D. That's why I can sit out in the sun and absorb it though my skin.
So, because of that -- though it's really just a guess -- I would assume the barbarians of Icewind Dale would be like an Anglo-Saxon body type. The Ffolk are farther south, and have land that's far more naturally ariable, so I'd say they would look less like Anglo-Celts than those of, say, Spain, or southern France.
Calimshites would be a darker-skined race, because (again, as I understand it -- I don't know as much biology as it sometimes sounds) their ancestors wouldn't have wanted as much sun as those of the Frozen North would have. Whether that means they'll have facial features similar to modern Arabs, I don't know. Same goes for the thin nose and chin my ancestors had showing up among the inhabitants of Icewind Dale.
Most comparisons die out on close inspection. They have to, or it would get boring. Some stories can support that -- but not many. Unless it's an important part of the story, it just gets distracting after a while. Once things get too familiar, it's defeating the purpose of fantasy. So I don't think Waterdeep can be compared to London, other than that both are large cities. London was never a slouch, but it wasn't ever the trading town Waterdeep is. The government and culture are all wrong as well. Cormyr could be compared to France, but I'd prefer not to. It doesn't actually work. If anything, it's closer to a fudal England -- Richard III, perhaps, but he and Azoun IV are incompatible. (Except that both were kings, and both fought wars, and both died. But that fits a lot of people in history.)
Bottom line, if you're complaining that some similarity to Real World history is too much, then you're a worse nitpicker than I am. And that's saying something. In fact, I'd have to wonder why you're accepting the idea of "humans on another planet" in that case. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Jun 2004 : 19:53:52
quote:
Originally posted by jinat
ok fine forget it.
I dont think there was anything offensive about my posts nor do i think that asking for /paralells/similarities/comparisons whatever word ud like to use is complicated or demeaning to the realms.
but you are entitled to your opinions and principles - so ill just take this to another thread.
Thankyou for your time
Oh no, don't get us wrong. You neither did nor said anything offensive. It's just that some of us saw a similar discussion that got very heated and very ugly over on the WotC forums. People were making arguments based on artwork, text descriptions, real-world cultures, etc...
I think it safest to say that while later regions of the Realms (in other words, the stuff Ed didn't do) are certainly influenced by real-world cultures, it's only a rough mixture at best. To use the Kara-Tur region as an example, it's pretty safe to say that Shou Lung was based loosely on China, and Kozakura was based loosely on Japan. But in both cases, it's only a loose itineration of the original. It may have some similiarities, but there are some serious differences, as well.
Me, I don't try to make real-world comparisons too much, because it is a fantasy world. A fantasy culture is going to have some influences that a real-world culture never had, like magic, monsters, gods, other intelligent races, etc.
It's all about flavor. Look at it this way: Japan and Kozakura, on the surface, have a lot of similarities. But so do an old Volkwagen Beetle and a Porsche 911 (in fact, from what I've read, the original Porsches were made from Volkswagen parts). Under the hood, they're seriously different.
The real-world similarities and flavors were just the starting point. The source material may have been similar, but where it went may be really different.
So I say stick with the flavor, but don't worry about trying to draw real-world parallels. We can not parallel a fantasy world, so there's little reason to try. |
| jinat |
Posted - 28 Jun 2004 : 19:24:06
ok fine forget it.
I dont think there was anything offensive about my posts nor do i think that asking for /paralells/similarities/comparisons whatever word ud like to use is complicated or demeaning to the realms.
but you are entitled to your opinions and principles - so ill just take this to another thread.
Thankyou for your time |
|
|
