| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| MarkTheRed |
Posted - 05 Oct 2023 : 20:26:57
My apologies if this is a thread that already exists somewhere in the far reaches of this forum, but I'm not someone who spends much time on forums and the proper search of them.(?)
In short, I'd loved to know more on the in character process of performing magic. I know the various components and etc, holding a 95% casted spell in your mind until later use, but all of these are more generalized imo.
Specifically the school of Abjuration and Abjurers are my focus. The long and short I play a prestigious Wizard (an Abjurer) on a game set within Faerun, although on a custom stretch of land outside of the canon lore, but I had planned to host a lecture or training seminar about the more detailed workings of the school of Abjuration, like getting more into the knitty gritty of it all.
From all I can remember and find about Abjuration, both 1pp and 3pp, is that is a VERY structured school of magic and not at all flowy or open to many different forms of interpretation. Is this correct? Does anyone have any details they could explain? The biggest issue with that is that... I don't know what that exact format/strategy is for casting any magical let alone Abjuration magic, and because it's so stiff, I don't think I should have the power to decide that, since it's only my interpretation on the subject that is meant to not have interpretations. (Atleast based on what I know of it) And I know that people will likely disagree with me if I go down this route.
If anyone has delved into this topic before, I'd love to hear about it. Whether it be to set me straight on anything I've said here, or to introduce ideas of how I could do such a thing. |
| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| bloodtide_the_red |
Posted - 07 Oct 2023 : 05:48:00
Abjurers: These spellcasters specialize in protection spells and as a result tend to think defensively. The teachings in abju¬ ration magic set forth the idea that the Realms is a dangerous place and a wizard needs all the help he can get to merely stay alive.
Abjurers are also easily recognizable by the large groups of well-armed servitors and guards and the number of mechanical and magical traps and warning devices in their quarters. Abjurers are viewed as cowardly by other groups (in particular the transmuters), but consider themselves sensible, solid, and cautious.
Abjurers prefer robes of dark green and brown, the better to fade into the back¬ ground with. They follow local styles, so if tabbard and slacks are the common fashion, abjurers will be found looking like the local population. There is safety in camouflage.
Ethos: Concerned with protection, abjurists have a deep reverence for life and are
attracted to philosophies stressing compassion and selflessness. Accordingly, most
abjurers are of good alignment. Evil-aligned abjurers are often toadies of an intimidating
evil warrior or in the service of a more powerful wizard of another school. Abjurers tend
to be thoughtful, orderly, gentle-natured, and soft-spoken, going out of their way not to
attract attention.
Of all the wizards, abjurers seem to have the strongest family ties. Abjurers take
comfort in the security of marriage and often choose their mates at an early age; many
abjurers have ten or more offspring. Owing to their mastery of protective forces, abjurers
tend to live to a ripe old age; it's not unusual to find abjurers well into their eighties in
adventuring parties.
Abjurers make their homes anywhere, but prefer small villages to large cities. Because
of their kind hearts and generous spirits, abjurers are held in high esteem by society in
general. Abjurers commonly earn a living as guides, bodyguards, merchants, and teachers.
There are few know Abjurers in the Realms, but there are lots of powerful and unique Abjuration spells. Wizards have been casting "Spell Mantles" to protect themselves for some 2,000 years. And while Warmist is not an abjuration, there are a lot of ward type spells to protect places.
Many of the Seven Sisters have crafted unique and powerful abjuration spells. Maybe the most famous Abjuration spell in the Realms, after dispel magic, is the spell Ironguard. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 07 Oct 2023 : 05:02:58
D&D has no magic system to speak of. There's little explanation for how spells are cast, and absolutely none for how magic actually produces the effects it does. Things just happen, because the Weave or whatever other force was somehow manipulated into making it happen.
This means you're entirely free to come up with your own idea of how abjuration spells would actually create the effects ithey do. Keep in mind that in FR, wizardly magic tends to do stuff by moving around and rearranging connections in this ever present "raw magic" circuitry that is the Weave. So you could draw inspiration by any real world discipline that deals with networks of any kind, from the likes of electronics to machine learning to neurosciences. You could even come up with some specifics like "connect branches like this to obtain effect X". |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 07 Oct 2023 : 02:50:31
quote:
Originally posted by MarkTheRed
I'm at my wit's end about trying to reword this another way, I'm really trying not to get short and rude but I'm not having my question even remotely answered I feel.
But AGAIN, I am not talking about 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th... nth... edition. I am talking about general Faerun/DnD lore about casting magic. I do not want, and I do not care about specific edition mechanical benefits. If Abjurers were floating turds in space, I would still be playing it, because I'm not looking for a mechanic advantage, nor do I want advice on how to to properly use said mechanical advantage, purely roleplay and flavor backed up by real lore, or if the lore doesn't exist then that's fine, that's still an answer.
Well, that's the problem... the way magic works in one edition kind of defines how wizards work. You need to understand that. Because in 2nd edition when an abjurer would never be able to learn certain spells that essentially scream his "end goals" just because of opposition schools... that makes them work different. In 5e where they can't stack spell after spell upon themselves, they are going to act differently than they would have in earlier editions of D&D. It's all well and good to say "they will all act this way due to roleplaying"... but the realities of things are that people act certain ways because the world works a certain way.
And as far as "not giving you anything to work with..." reread half of what I just posted... its basically edition neutral talking about concepts of magic... We can't help it if you don't understand mechanics well enough to speak the lingo. Like I said... an abjurer will look at a magic mouth spell and go "so what, it makes a mouth that talks... oh wait, how does that trigger work". They'll barely care about the end effect and be all up into how you made the effect trigger. That's what would make them different than the illusionist that would be all about making the mouth look and sound different. |
| MarkTheRed |
Posted - 06 Oct 2023 : 22:25:27
I'm at my wit's end about trying to reword this another way, I'm really trying not to get short and rude but I'm not having my question even remotely answered I feel.
But AGAIN, I am not talking about 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th... nth... edition. I am talking about general Faerun/DnD lore about casting magic. I do not want, and I do not care about specific edition mechanical benefits. If Abjurers were floating turds in space, I would still be playing it, because I'm not looking for a mechanic advantage, nor do I want advice on how to to properly use said mechanical advantage, purely roleplay and flavor backed up by real lore, or if the lore doesn't exist then that's fine, that's still an answer. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 06 Oct 2023 : 21:56:55
quote:
Originally posted by MarkTheRed
Maybe I'm stupid, or I am asking a stupid question or I'm just asking the wrong question. but I don't feel like it's been answered regardless. I know what each school and subschool does, and the various ways Abjuration can be used to perform different tasks, but that's not what I'm asking. That is far too much focus on the mechanical PnP usages of the school and magic in general.
The nature of my question(s) is far more lore and flavor driven, regardless of if I've used mathematical equations to try and explain them, but that is the simplest way my brain can formulate the comparisons.
To use terminology from someone else when I tried to ask the same question to; is Abjuration an "Emergent field" where people are always making new discoveries on the new techniques of how Abjuration spells are cast, or is a one and done kind of thing. Where there is ONLY one way or technique to use when casting the magic, regardless of what kind of Abjuration spell you're trying to cast.
I understand that this kind of question likely hasn't been asked before, and for good reason, as I said in the original question if it is the latter, where there is only one train of thought, I wouldn't wish to introduce my train of thought as if it were the only way.
So, let me make this statement first.
I assume you're talking 5e, and I'll also add this.... 5e needs more spells...
The assumption in the realms is that wizards all over the place are developing new spells. Now, they may try to keep their spells secret, but lets face it... people see you casting it, they can get the gist enough to either copy your idea or outright steal it from your spellbooks. In fact, in most of my campaigns, wizards readily share spells they've found... the operative thing being share and share alike... I'll copy two spells of yours and let you copy two of mine... or even an uneven trade of "I want your new spell... you can copy ten of mine".
Now people will point to Ed saying that all wizards are secretive and try to hide their stuff... but its human nature to collaborate and share if they can learn something in return. It may take some time, but all magic will "start to get around".
So, that being said, Abjurers should be watching trends and they should be developing counters for spells of various types. To give you an example, one of my favorite abjurations that my character made was "Sleyvas Magical Battery". In essence, any spell that would last a long duration, he'd first cast the battery and then the long lasting spell and "tie it into the battery" ... so that if exposed to an antimagic shell the spell he had on him would still function. Another favorite of mine was "Sleyvas' Change Contingency" which essentially allowed a wizard to change the trigger, the exact effect that would occur, etc... on a "hung" spell that someone had (you could even make it a trigger that was relatively impossible to occur). These were interesting and useful spells in prior editions, but would be less so in 5e... but I think this gives you an example of how an abjurer's mind should think.
Abjurers will be fascinated by things like "whatever, a magic mouth can make a noise... but how does that trigger mechanic work". They will consider things like "Is there some way that I can turn protection against fire into vulnerability to fire"? They'll wonder "Is there some way I can turn a lich's link to a phylactery into a negative thing that hurts them"? |
| MarkTheRed |
Posted - 06 Oct 2023 : 21:54:46
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Ayrik
But, I bet he's playing 5e, since most new people have since it came out about 8 or 9 years ago.
In particular I am playing a homebrew version 3rd edition, that steals from 3.5e and Pathfinder, and I've been playing 3/3.5/PF for around a decade, but such a small portion of it has involved Wizards and Magic. Again none of my questions have been based off of mechanics of any addition, purely and entirely flavor based. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 06 Oct 2023 : 21:37:24
Ayrik
Bear in mind, you're thinking in probably 2e and 3e terms.
The whole "specific opposition schools" to each school was so silly that the very next edition they got rid of it in 3e. In that edition all schools got to choose 2 opposition schools (except divination which only had to pick one).
But, I bet he's playing 5e, since most new people have since it came out about 8 or 9 years ago.
5e very much changes specialization AND very much changes abjurers. No longer are there opposition schools. Also, the class abilities of an abjurer gives them an effective personal shield that blocks damage. It's then renewed anytime they cast an abjuration spell by the level of the spell (which bear in mind, alarm is a ritual, so they can cast this abjuration for free if they simply take the time). There's some other things as well. Suffice it to say abjurers in 5e are quite viable. Now, I say that, but bear in mind that 5e also applies a rule that requires concentration ona lot of spells that previously didn't require it and the inability to concentrate on more than one spell at a time... so they can no longer do a lot of the trickery that I used to do in 2e and which was tamed further in 3e. Also, the number of spells in 5e definitely needs expansion.
That being said, I've written up several house rule feats that can be taken by various specialists to improve their abilities as well. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 06 Oct 2023 : 21:09:35
I agree that abjurers are great conceptually. A mage wrapped in magics which absorb, deflect, reflect, counter, neutralize, repurpose any "hostile" incoming magics. Using magic to be immune to magic (and to be immune to everything else) is quite potent.
But abjurers are rather pathetic in their D&D implementation. They get trivial bonuses which don't help much - which don't really do anything at all by the time an abjurer has survived low-level-magic-user-wimpyness and reached Archmage-like experience levels. I mean, no player character would decline another 1 point defensive bonus, it could make a world of difference at beginning levels, but it's basically a useless forgettable thing at the high near-retirement levels, and it's a really disappointing thing to get when compared vs all the increased blasting power or illusory armies or planewalking abilities that others gain as their specialist bonuses. |
| MarkTheRed |
Posted - 06 Oct 2023 : 19:56:37
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
What does an abjurer get which makes the specialty attractive?
Counterspells which aren't as good as dispel magic? Small bonuses to AC which aren't as good as armor, shield, or stoneskin spells? Minor defensive adjustments and distractions which aren't as good as resilient sphere or displacement or countless illusion-based spells?
To be sure, there are many spells in the school of abjuration. Including some I've listed above. But a generalist mage can cast these abjuration spells. An adjacent specialist - like say, a transmuter - can also cast these abjuration spells, along with a huge selection of incredibly potent and useful alteration spells.
I'm not trying to trash Abjurers. But I've never found them compelling or interesting. Judging by choices and comments made by many fellow players over the years, I think it's fair to say abjurers are rather unpopular. Nobody ever plays one. So I'm curious why this fascination with a seemingly uninteresting, unpopular subclass?
It's a strange addiction of mine personally, to play tanky or support builds with Abjurers appealing to me far more than any other school of magic, regardless of what game or universe I'm in and regardless of their meta-ness. I am not usually a Mage player, and I am not playing to Min/Max or play FoTM.
This particular question has nothing to do with ANY mechanical PnP bonuses, and is strictly a question on flavor, lore and theories of magic in character. I couldn't currently care less if Abjurers got a -1000 AC penalty, and every other specialist got an additional +1000 AC, making a 2000 AC difference. I would still play them just the same as I do currently on this game, infact on this game Abjurers lose access to ALL Conjuration spells as a balance change, instead of Illusion like they normally would in lore. Meaning I do not get Mage Armour, I do not get sustenance, I do not get any form of summons beyond those of Evocation and Necromancy.
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| Ayrik |
Posted - 06 Oct 2023 : 19:46:24
What does an abjurer get which makes the specialty attractive?
Countermagics which aren't as good as dispel magic, counterspell, or globe of invulnerability spells? Small bonuses to AC which aren't as good as armor, shield, or stoneskin spells? Minor defensive advantages and distractions which aren't as good as resilient sphere or displacement or countless illusion-based spells?
To be sure, there are many spells in the school of abjuration. Including some I've listed above. But a generalist mage can cast these abjuration spells. An adjacent specialist - a conjurer or a necromancer - can also cast these abjuration spells, along with a huge selection of potent and useful spells from their own schools, without losing access to the incredibly versatile schools of alteration or illusion. Indeed, a transmuter (the exact opposite of an abjurer) has access to plenty of defensive spells which are basically just as good as anything the abjurer can get - and still gets access to "universal school" spells like counterspell, dispel magic, etc - and actually gets more useful specialist bonuses than a small +bonus to AC or Saves or whatever.
I'm not trying to trash Abjurers. But I've never found them compelling or interesting. Judging by choices and comments made by many fellow players over the years, I think it's fair to say abjurers are rather unpopular. Nobody ever played one (although there have been some necromancers, illusionists, transmuters, and conjurers). So I'm curious why this fascination with a seemingly uninteresting, unpopular subclass? |
| MarkTheRed |
Posted - 06 Oct 2023 : 19:19:52
Maybe I'm stupid, or I am asking a stupid question or I'm just asking the wrong question. but I don't feel like it's been answered regardless. I know what each school and subschool does, and the various ways Abjuration can be used to perform different tasks, but that's not what I'm asking. That is far too much focus on the mechanical PnP usages of the school and magic in general.
The nature of my question(s) is far more lore and flavor driven, regardless of if I've used mathematical equations to try and explain them, but that is the simplest way my brain can formulate the comparisons.
To use terminology from someone else when I tried to ask the same question to; is Abjuration an "Emergent field" where people are always making new discoveries on the new techniques of how Abjuration spells are cast, or is a one and done kind of thing. Where there is ONLY one way or technique to use when casting the magic, regardless of what kind of Abjuration spell you're trying to cast.
I understand that this kind of question likely hasn't been asked before, and for good reason, as I said in the original question if it is the latter, where there is only one train of thought, I wouldn't wish to introduce my train of thought as if it were the only way. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 06 Oct 2023 : 18:02:45
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
As far as abjurer personalities go, they are not always stern. Lallara Mediocros was a former Zulkir of Abjuration and the other zulkirs thought she was a bit absent-minded and unfocused.
This could use a little clarity. Lallara Mediocros isn't necessarily absent-minded.... she's just got interests OTHER than magic and OTHER than being a statesman. When she puts herself to something, she's noted as being somewhat driven and devoted. To some degree, this might be seen like Yennefer's portrayal in the Witcher TV series. She's interested in magic... but also sex and apparently torture/bondage... and at times one will overrule the other. She may even "throw herself" into sex as a means to quickly satiate herself in order to refocus on some niggling problem. I would say that politics is something that she suffers only because it gives her the free hand she wants for other things. So, people that are devoted to politics will see her as "unreliable".
The one thing I've never liked about the 2nd edition portrayal of her though was the part where they portrayed her without the required intelligence to cast 9th level spells. That is entirely hard to swallow, because Thay is first and foremost a meritocracy of sorts. The abjurers choose their Zulkir. There's no way I see them choosing someone lacking the intellect. So, I could see an abjurer who might not have the intelligence to cast a level of spells that they have access to, but I don't see them being elected as Zulkir. With the changes in editions and the ability to raise ability scores, that's definitely something I dropped. It might be interesting if mechanically it could be said something like "she has never been able to devote herself to certain subjects like memorizing history, dates, and names of important individuals in the past" to kind of show that she's good with magic, but not all things that a book smart person may normally excel with. Basically, don't reduce her magical aptitude, but rather other things that would normally be increased by having a high intelligence (like certain knowledge skills), and then owing this lack to her focus on sex, torture, bondage, etc....
Another way to do it, if you actually wanted her to lack the intelligence to cast her most powerful spells, might be that she's suffered an intelligence loss as a result of some kind of magical or psionic assault. Maybe she was captured and her intelligence drained away (in a way similar to Dumbledore and his Pensieve ... but much crueler where they stripped away certain memories from her mind in order to find out something and now she has "holes" in her mind). If this were the case, she'd likely be trying to hide it from her fellow red wizards, and she may use her sybaritic excesses as a means to hide this failing (she may be actually faking what she's doing in order to go seek information that she previously knew... using a simulacrum to act out these sybaritic excesses, etc...).
In fact, you know what... that last idea would make for a great storyline in which Zulkir of Enchantment, Lauzoril, acted against Lallara BECAUSE she was working with Szass Tam... because Tam and Lauzoril have been noted enemies since even before the Thayan civil war. It would fit that the Zulkir of Enchantment might be able to affect her in this way and even hide the memories of it, even though Lallara should have been a master at protecting herself from it... in other words one master working against another master and since Lallara may have never seen this "new spell" maybe she had no counter developed yet.
From Spellbound
Though chaotic and unreliable (she is as interested in inflicting new torments on her slaves and prisoners as she is in affairs of the nation), the Zulkir of Abjuration is an influential and useful ally of Szass Tam in his struggle to unite Thay. She is currently searching for a way to increase her intelligence in order to gain access to 9th level spells.
A devoted scholar and collector of enchanted items, Mediocros is also something of a decadent, indulging in many excessive luxuries in the privacy of her several manses throughout Thay and beyond. (She is known to have at least one residence in Amn.) Though she is powerful and skilled in the sorcerous arts, Mediocros is also somewhat flighty, often breaking off important tasks to rush off to some new sybaritic excess at one of her homes. When she brings herself to work, she can be a potent ally.
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| sleyvas |
Posted - 06 Oct 2023 : 17:42:43
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
As far as abjurer personalities go, they are not always stern. Lallara Mediocros was a former Zulkir of Abjuration and the other zulkirs thought she was a bit absent-minded and unfocused.
This could use a little clarity. Lallara Mediocros isn't necessarily absent-minded.... she's just got interests OTHER than magic and OTHER than being a statesman. When she puts herself to something, she's noted as being somewhat driven and devoted. To some degree, this might be seen like Yennefer's portrayal in the Witcher TV series. She's interested in magic... but also sex and apparently torture/bondage... and at times one will overrule the other. She may even "throw herself" into sex as a means to quickly satiate herself in order to refocus on some niggling problem. I would say that politics is something that she suffers only because it gives her the free hand she wants for other things. So, people that are devoted to politics will see her as "unreliable".
The one thing I've never liked about the 2nd edition portrayal of her though was the part where they portrayed her without the required intelligence to cast 9th level spells. That is entirely hard to swallow, because Thay is first and foremost a meritocracy of sorts. The abjurers choose their Zulkir. There's no way I see them choosing someone lacking the intellect. So, I could see an abjurer who might not have the intelligence to cast a level of spells that they have access to, but I don't see them being elected as Zulkir. With the changes in editions and the ability to raise ability scores, that's definitely something I dropped. It might be interesting if mechanically it could be said something like "she has never been able to devote herself to certain subjects like memorizing history, dates, and names of important individuals in the past" to kind of show that she's good with magic, but not all things that a book smart person may normally excel with. Basically, don't reduce her magical aptitude, but rather other things that would normally be increased by having a high intelligence (like certain knowledge skills), and then owing this lack to her focus on sex, torture, bondage, etc....
From Spellbound
Though chaotic and unreliable (she is as interested in inflicting new torments on her slaves and prisoners as she is in affairs of the nation), the Zulkir of Abjuration is an influential and useful ally of Szass Tam in his struggle to unite Thay. She is currently searching for a way to increase her intelligence in order to gain access to 9th level spells.
A devoted scholar and collector of enchanted items, Mediocros is also something of a decadent, indulging in many excessive luxuries in the privacy of her several manses throughout Thay and beyond. (She is known to have at least one residence in Amn.) Though she is powerful and skilled in the sorcerous arts, Mediocros is also somewhat flighty, often breaking off important tasks to rush off to some new sybaritic excess at one of her homes. When she brings herself to work, she can be a potent ally. |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 06 Oct 2023 : 16:50:59
As far as abjurer personalities go, they are not always stern. Lallara Mediocros was a former Zulkir of Abjuration and the other zulkirs thought she was a bit absent-minded and unfocused.
Concerning abjuration paths, do you want to concentrate on 1. counterspelling in spell duels, 2. removing baneful magical effects, 3. protecting against energy/force/physical attacks, 4. stop spying or mental intrusion from hostile parties or 5. banish extraplanar entities.
All five areas fall under the abjuration school. They are not mutually exclusive paths but you generally want to focus on a couple rather than master every facet.
As far as in-character learning abjuration is concerned, is the character a spontaneous character or do he/she/it prepare spells? Using your coding example, spontaneous casting is like executing precomplied code. The caster who prepares spells, however, would use as you would say either human-language, assembly or binary code depending upon their accomplishments. Novices typically are limited to human-language.
Luminaries such as Karsus or the Shrinshee not only have mastered binary but they have practiced quantum computing to get results such as High Magic or Karsus' Avatar.
One last question from me. How did your wizard get a 40 intelligence unless you are playing Azuth himself? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 06 Oct 2023 : 14:54:38
Sounds like your a misunderstanding the basis of the schools. I'll kind of give an on the fly overview below in case it helps. To note, some of these sound vaguely familiar... and they should because often something that can be done with one school can also be done with another school.
Abjuration is protection magic and magic meant to counter other magic. That's the gist of it. That's why its so structured, because its the idea that a person who focuses on this school is intent to study other magic and prepare for countering it (or prepare for bad situations and be able to provide protection from them). So abjuration does things like put up shields versus certain energy, stops blades from cutting people, and takes someone else's spell and either destroys it or flips it to another purpose. If you are familiar with magic the gathering, it would very much resemble "blue" magic minus ties to air and sea. Think Hermione Granger for another practical example.
Transmutation / alteration magic is all about taking something and changing it. That may be taking an object and changing it, changing someone's form (i.e. polymorphing), or changing the properties of something to provide some kind of protection to it, etc...
Illusion - this should be pretty self explanator
Invocation / Evocation - working with energy, primarily in a destructive way. Its practictioners are generally hot heads (but this is FAR from always true). Also using the magic of "force" ... as in kinetic magic like telekinesis. In comparison to Magic the Gathering, this would be red magic minus any ties to mountains, goblins, ogres, dwarves, etc...
Necromancy - magic involving death, draining life, causing disease, creating undead, etc...
Conjuration / Summoning - magic generally involving taking something from somewhere else and bringing it to you, or moving you somewhere else. So, summoning aid in the form of fiends, angels, elementals, fey, animals, undead... but also teleportation, portals, or spells that might "create" a wall of some material, etc..
Divination - Magic about finding the hidden or covered by illusion, discovering properties of things, revealing the truth, foreseeing the future and revealing the past, etc...
Enchantment - Magic affecting the mind (sometimes in the form of protecting it, sometimes in the form of affecting the minds of others). In some older editions, this also including some minor ability to create basic magic "charms that worked somewhat like luck" as well, but this created some confusion and people were linking it to all magic item creation.
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| MarkTheRed |
Posted - 05 Oct 2023 : 23:35:32
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
In AD&D 2E (which introduced Abjuration and the other schools of magic), you can check books like PHBR4: Complete Wizard's Handbook, Tome of Magic, and Player's Option: Spells & Magic to learn a lot of details and get a lot of options.
Late-2E settings (Darksun and Planescape) expanded on the details even more, although in peculiar setting-specific ways.
D&D 3E/3.5E and later editions produced countless books on the topic you might find interesting. Third-party OGL/D20 products glutted the market with special rules for every category, school, class, and subclass of magic imaginable, although quality varied greatly from utterly amateur, juvenile, embarassing garbage to products vastly superior to anything Wizbro official published.
I'll look into some of these if I can find them, I personally have nothing physical or pdf beyond the CRBs/MM/DMG for 3.5e
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
On the issue of Abjuration being strict on matters of interpretation, do you refer to Dungeons & Dragons rules for Abjuration spells? Or for that matter any game rules rather than role-playing context?
If this is about in-game flavor, Abjuration is no easier or tougher than any other school. Would you please explain the in-game or out-of-game focus of your question?
I'd like to keep things within Faerun/DnD lore, as the the game/server I play on requires it all to be (within reason).
It doesn't have to be how they're performed in a mechanical or game sense, but in general the more in character working of how to cast spells, namely Abjuration. Not necessarily harder or easier like you've said, but basically every single Abjurer that I'm aware of has always been the stern and calculated sort, and I assume that's not without reason. The school from various descriptions I can find say its a very strict form of magic, comparatively like a Binary leaning coding language vs a more human- coding language (I forget the proper term), as opposed to a rather fluid or forgiving kind.
I guess the MOST specific question I can ask... is Abjuration a school that has various different "paths" one could follow to reach the same result, (Ex 1+2=3, 3x1=3, 12/4=3,.6x.6-.6=3 etc) a more fluid reasoning, or is there only one way to do it period, (1=1, 2=2, 3=3 etc) a strict reasoning.
I'm sorry if my question is sorta stupid... idk. Like I said above if it is such a strict system to cast the spells I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to introduce my own interpretation as the "correct" way, my PC in particular is a 40~ Int Wizard, mistakes involving magic shouldn't be common!  |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 05 Oct 2023 : 21:48:21
On the issue of Abjuration being strict on matters of interpretation, do you refer to Dungeons & Dragons rules for Abjuration spells? Or for that matter any game rules rather than role-playing context?
If this is about in-game flavor, Abjuration is no easier or tougher than any other school. Would you please explain the in-game or out-of-game focus of your question? |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 05 Oct 2023 : 21:39:37
In AD&D 2E (which introduced Abjuration and the other schools of magic), you can check books like PHBR4: Complete Wizard's Handbook, Tome of Magic, and Player's Option: Spells & Magic to learn a lot of details and get a lot of options.
Late-2E settings (Darksun and Planescape) expanded on the details even more, although in peculiar setting-specific ways.
D&D 3E/3.5E and later editions produced countless books on the topic you might find interesting. Third-party OGL/D20 products glutted the market with special rules for every category, school, class, and subclass of magic imaginable, although quality varied greatly from utterly amateur, juvenile, embarassing garbage to products vastly superior to anything Wizbro official published. |
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