| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Greywolf76 |
Posted - 04 Jul 2023 : 13:21:04
Hello and well met, everyone. It's been a very long time since my last post.
Anyway, I was wondering if someone could help me with a simple question:
I've been running a 2e FR campaign set in 1357 DR and based in and around the town of Daggerford.
I new player will be joining our group very soon and he wants to play a barbarian PC - not necessarily barbarian class (we're still working out some details) but from a barbarian tribe.
My first thought was the Uthgardts, more specifically someone from the Thunderbeast tribe. However, it seems the Uthgardts live too far from Daggerford.
Second option would be the High Moor barbarians, mentioned in both the Gray Box and in "Under Illefarn Anew". However, there's nothing much about their cultures. So, do you think it would be too far-fetched to consider High Moor barbarians a "lost" Uthgardt tribe?
I've thought about members of the Red Pony Tribe that didn't disappear in the Underdark and settled there, since the High Moor Pony is quite famous in the region.
Thanks in advance. |
| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Greywolf76 |
Posted - 01 Aug 2023 : 00:12:10
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hey, just if you want to pick some lore ideas up... check out the old Jakandor, Island of War, series. They create a fantasy barbarian society known as the Knorr (or Knorrmen). They worship "The Warmother", who could easily be an aspect of the Red Knight or Sif that's a bit less civilized. They are NOT vikings... I compare them to a mix of "if vikings and native Americans had comingled". Given that these guys have a love of horses, the red knight could fit in well with people training to be powerful light cavalry / horse archers that work against the local non-human threats. But partly, that product has some alternate rules that you may want to look at and possibly adapt.
Thanks for the suggestion, Philip. I have Jakandor, but it's been ages since I've read that book. I'll check it out. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 21 Jul 2023 : 16:24:42
quote:
Originally posted by Greywolf76
Hi, folks.
Just a quick update on this. Been talking to the player, and using the text from Elminster's Ecologies 2 as a basis, I decided to make the High Moor barbarians as a kind of inspired by pre-Roman Pict / Celt society - not a direct correspondence, mind you, since I don't like those (more as an inspiration with a society organized in tribes or clans, the types of weapons they use, blue war-painting, and so on) instead of a "lost" Uthgardt tribe.
Now I just have to fill in the details on some aspects of these barbarians society, such as religion (which I wanna keep simple, I'll probably stick to ancestor worship instead of gods).
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.
Hey, just if you want to pick some lore ideas up... check out the old Jakandor, Island of War, series. They create a fantasy barbarian society known as the Knorr (or Knorrmen). They worship "The Warmother", who could easily be an aspect of the Red Knight or Sif that's a bit less civilized. They are NOT vikings... I compare them to a mix of "if vikings and native Americans had comingled". Given that these guys have a love of horses, the red knight could fit in well with people training to be powerful light cavalry / horse archers that work against the local non-human threats. But partly, that product has some alternate rules that you may want to look at and possibly adapt. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Jul 2023 : 22:00:35
quote:
Originally posted by Greywolf76
Hi, folks.
Just a quick update on this. Been talking to the player, and using the text from Elminster's Ecologies 2 as a basis, I decided to make the High Moor barbarians as a kind of inspired by pre-Roman Pict / Celt society - not a direct correspondence, mind you, since I don't like those (more as an inspiration with a society organized in tribes or clans, the types of weapons they use, blue war-painting, and so on) instead of a "lost" Uthgardt tribe.
Now I just have to fill in the details on some aspects of these barbarians society, such as religion (which I wanna keep simple, I'll probably stick to ancestor worship instead of gods).
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.
One idea I once had for a variant version of ancestor worship... When someone died, they were buried and a tree planted on their grave. The shaman would then enter the grove/forest and commune with the trees, speaking to the ancestors through them. |
| Greywolf76 |
Posted - 19 Jul 2023 : 18:27:00
Hi, folks.
Just a quick update on this. Been talking to the player, and using the text from Elminster's Ecologies 2 as a basis, I decided to make the High Moor barbarians as a kind of inspired by pre-Roman Pict / Celt society - not a direct correspondence, mind you, since I don't like those (more as an inspiration with a society organized in tribes or clans, the types of weapons they use, blue war-painting, and so on) instead of a "lost" Uthgardt tribe.
Now I just have to fill in the details on some aspects of these barbarians society, such as religion (which I wanna keep simple, I'll probably stick to ancestor worship instead of gods).
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.
|
| Ayrik |
Posted - 13 Jul 2023 : 07:25:34
There are also horse barbarians in the region North of the Moonsea - Thar, The Ride, Vaasa, etc.
I don't know much about them. But it's a rugged, harsh, cold land. So they'd be rugged, harsh, cold people. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 13 Jul 2023 : 05:44:07
quote:
Originally posted by deserk
Dragon Annual 4 (pg 28.) states the barbarians of the High Moor speak (a heavily accented) Thorasta, which does not belong to the same language family as the Uthgardts (who speak the Bothii dialect of Illuski). That would seem to suggest that the High Moor barbarians are not related to the Uthgardt at all,
Uthgardt people have of at least 3 different origins: the Northmen (who came with Uthgar Gardolfsson), some of the locals (many appreciated defence against the goblinoids and became genuine followers) and the Netherese refugees who sought a strong gang for survival.
quote:
are most likely ethnic Tethyrians (who are the other major ethnic group of the Western Heartlands) with some likely some ancient influence from Chondathan/Jhaamdathan (who are the progenitors of the Thorass languages).
Depends on when they arrived.
The Chionthar basin is much closer than either Amn or Moonsea. Thus the tribes of Talfir seem likely, if this happened before they all were assimilated. After all, some of them ran from Shadowking all the way to Monshae isles. If others turned North instead, they could end up in High Moor. This would also explain why anyone wanted to live in such a place at all. |
| Greywolf76 |
Posted - 07 Jul 2023 : 01:08:13
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Personally, based on the description given above... I think the barbarians of the High Moor might be best to model after Conan's Cimmerians honestly. Giving them a reverence for making fine steel two handed swords.. making them at war with other local barbarians (granted nonhuman ones in the form of goblins and hobgoblins).... There are some notable differences, such as them having druids in their midst.
You know what, given their penchant for druids and no mention of worship of which deity... and you're interest in having the clan that your guy comes from be a lost tribe of Uthgardt.... what if you did them as something slightly different. What if THIS CLAN were barbarians who periodically venture north on a trip to become adults to the Unicorn Run? What if they call were members of the Red Pony tribe who have since turned from Uthgar to the worship of Lurue, and as such given up their fear of magic. Calling themselves the "Whitehorn" clan, maybe instead of the famed two handed swords, they make "Swirlhorn Spears" that are spears that have a spearhead that's shaped in the shape of a unicorn horn. Maybe their clan is a matriarchy with new leaders being chosen by being accepted by a unicorn. Given that there's supposedly dozens of these clans all over the high moor, you could easily have one that's a little different like this and it would just be another clan numbering a few hundred. The barbarians of the high moor don't seem to have a hierarchy or central authority, so there might be a few dozen groups like this.
Of course, your new player may not like this idea of coming from a matriarchal clan of unicorn worshippers...
Another idea that presents itself to my mind... they are specifically tribes who are noted as having herds of goats. They are also noted as having druids. What if this particular clan of barbarians likes to raise giant goats and use them as mounts? They might still have the reverence for steel, etc.. but this would be a way to differentiate them from Cimmerians. The tribal druid might awaken them as well, to give the character a truly different type of mount that's got a personality as well for you to use. They could be the "Hulking Horn" or "Black Ram" tribe or something similar.
Thanks, Sleyvas. I had just read the above excerpt from Elminster's Ecologies when searching for more info regarding the High Moor barbarians. But I really liked all of your suggestions, particularly the Unicorn clan.
Also, the region where they live according to the map in EE II is also close to a place that is considered sacred by Mielikki's clergy (or at least I remember reading that somewhere - probably in the FR wiki, I guess). So, here's another unicorn connection.
Loved the "Black Ram" name, though.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Uh, there's Blue Rose for that. 
quote:
Originally posted by deserk
Dragon Annual 4 (pg 28.) states the barbarians of the High Moor speak (a heavily accented) Thorasta, which does not belong to the same language family as the Uthgardts (who speak the Bothii dialect of Illuski). That would seem to suggest that the High Moor barbarians are not related to the Uthgardt at all, and are most likely ethnic Tethyrians (who are the other major ethnic group of the Western Heartlands) with some likely some ancient influence from Chondathan/Jhaamdathan (who are the progenitors of the Thorass languages).
I love the aforementioned article by Thomas M. Costa, so much so that I've been using it in my campaign (with some modifications).
I know that, by the book, the High Moor barbarians are not Uthgardts - I've had the feeling that those guys were heavily inspired by real-world Irish or Pictish peoples, except for the fact that Irish and Picts had kings and a highly agrarian society - neither of which the High Moor barbarians possess.
However, as I said above, since my player expressed interest in a Cimmerian-esque PC - and the Uthgardts themselves are clearly inspired by Hyborean Age's Cimmerians - I though about changing those barbarians into a "lost" Uthgardt clan. |
| deserk |
Posted - 05 Jul 2023 : 22:44:40
Dragon Annual 4 (pg 28.) states the barbarians of the High Moor speak (a heavily accented) Thorasta, which does not belong to the same language family as the Uthgardts (who speak the Bothii dialect of Illuski). That would seem to suggest that the High Moor barbarians are not related to the Uthgardt at all, and are most likely ethnic Tethyrians (who are the other major ethnic group of the Western Heartlands) with some likely some ancient influence from Chondathan/Jhaamdathan (who are the progenitors of the Thorass languages). |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 05 Jul 2023 : 22:37:50
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Of course, your new player may not like this idea of coming from a matriarchal clan of unicorn worshippers...
Uh, there's Blue Rose for that.
Lol, yeah, I wrote it up and then was like.... yeah, my girlfriend would love this idea... not so much most guys. But hey... that close to the unicorn run.. I would not be surprised if there aren't some barbarians worshipping Lurue. That being said, including them could make for a great group to add that perhaps acts in conflict with some of the other barbarians "who aren't as enlightened" as them. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 05 Jul 2023 : 17:54:11
The North mostly covers the conditions, but also under Misty Forest there's this:
quote:
This forest is partially patrolled by the local rangers, and several druids have shrines here. There is also a small community of wild elves who work with the druids and have some druids of their own. These forces can only cover a small fraction of the forest at any one time.
The barbarians of the High Moor come into the forest for hunting and wood gathering. The orcs of the High Moor use the protection of the forest for approaches to the Trade Way.
You can just see the complicated relations emerging. That's on top of the Moor as such. With so many group at various levels of hostility or cooperation around, it looks like these guys must have a lot of experience with "enemy of my enemy..." considerations.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Of course, your new player may not like this idea of coming from a matriarchal clan of unicorn worshippers...
Uh, there's Blue Rose for that. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 05 Jul 2023 : 15:24:55
Personally, based on the description given above... I think the barbarians of the High Moor might be best to model after Conan's Cimmerians honestly. Giving them a reverence for making fine steel two handed swords.. making them at war with other local barbarians (granted nonhuman ones in the form of goblins and hobgoblins).... There are some notable differences, such as them having druids in their midst.
You know what, given their penchant for druids and no mention of worship of which deity... and you're interest in having the clan that your guy comes from be a lost tribe of Uthgardt.... what if you did them as something slightly different. What if THIS CLAN were barbarians who periodically venture north on a trip to become adults to the Unicorn Run? What if they call were members of the Red Pony tribe who have since turned from Uthgar to the worship of Lurue, and as such given up their fear of magic. Calling themselves the "Whitehorn" clan, maybe instead of the famed two handed swords, they make "Swirlhorn Spears" that are spears that have a spearhead that's shaped in the shape of a unicorn horn. Maybe their clan is a matriarchy with new leaders being chosen by being accepted by a unicorn. Given that there's supposedly dozens of these clans all over the high moor, you could easily have one that's a little different like this and it would just be another clan numbering a few hundred. The barbarians of the high moor don't seem to have a hierarchy or central authority, so there might be a few dozen groups like this.
Of course, your new player may not like this idea of coming from a matriarchal clan of unicorn worshippers...
Another idea that presents itself to my mind... they are specifically tribes who are noted as having herds of goats. They are also noted as having druids. What if this particular clan of barbarians likes to raise giant goats and use them as mounts? They might still have the reverence for steel, etc.. but this would be a way to differentiate them from Cimmerians. The tribal druid might awaken them as well, to give the character a truly different type of mount that's got a personality as well for you to use. They could be the "Hulking Horn" or "Black Ram" tribe or something similar. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 05 Jul 2023 : 14:01:08
Yeah, Elminster's Ecologies says this in case it gives you any ideas.
The humans of the High Moor are considered barbarians by most other humans. I suppose it's all a matter of point of view. To the humans of the towns and cities, the High Moor tribes (clans, really) must seem barbarous since they don't have permanent settlements and their ways are rough. On the other hand, I'm seminomadic myself, so I can't say I find the locals all that different as people, and to be honest, I've always thought the travelers from settled lands to have some pretty barbarous ideas.
Well, anyway, the local clans of humans do not make permanent settlements. During the warmer months, they wander the High Moor with their flocks of sheep or goats, seeking the best forage for themselves and their herds. They engage in hunting and trapping, and grouse, flunderwings, rabbits, and moor rats are staples in their diets. They also gather plants for food, including cloudberries, bilberries, sugar beets, and bluecaps. Occasionally, they venture into the Misty Forest to gather spruce branches and twigs to make a rather vile concoction known as spruce beer, which requires parts of a spruce tree, sugar from the sugar beets, and molasses. They use the intoxicant brewed from this mixture for celebrations and ceremonies.
The clans spend most of their time gathering food so that they have sufficient stores when winter comes. In the winter they usually move into caves, though a few brave clans winter in various ruins. Some even build winter shelters of their own; they use rocks to make walls in ravines to provide protection from the vicious winds of the mesa. During the winter, they live in close quarters, and only hunting parties venturing forth except on the rare mild day.
In the spring, the clans come out and begin traveling again. Several clans come together in spring in various parts of the High Moor to celebrate the turn of the season, to exchange goods and information, and to acquire mates for the young women and men of the clan who have come of age.
At these gatherings, contests are held and stories of battle are recited. The clan leaders meet to discuss any problems they have had, such as with the goblins, hobgoblins, or the other clans, and brief alliances sometimes arise so that war can be made. At times, a couple of clans join together to form a raiding party that ventures off the plateau through the Misty Forest. However, such parties usually run afoul of the elves there before they can cause too much trouble.
The clans use spears and short bows for hunting and war. They also have craftsfolk capable of forging fine two-handed swords. These swordcrafters are the most settled of the humans, usually forming small clans around specific sites and remaining there for years so they can make weapons. The iron for the swords they make must be imported. The swordsmiths usually acquire iron through trade in Soubar or from caravans that detour temporarily onto the High Moor specifically to trade with the human clans at certain meeting areas. The local humans trade their knowledge of the area, sheep, and ponies (which they are expert at catching) for the ore or ingots of pig iron. Some "civilized" folk are also interested in trading for the sheepskin jerkins the locals make or in the beads and bangles with which the clothes are decorated.
The local human clans are proud and rough, and they tend to live in relative harmony with their environment. This is due in no little part to the efforts of myself and my predecessors. For more than a century, we have impressed upon the humans the importance of preserving the animals and plants of the region for the clans' own survival. Several of the clans follow druidic ways, and I have trained numerous initiates from these people, many of whom still reside on the plateau and help me watch over things.
|
| TBeholder |
Posted - 05 Jul 2023 : 01:27:16
quote:
Originally posted by Greywolf76
I've been running a 2e FR campaign set in 1357 DR and based in and around the town of Daggerford.
I new player will be joining our group very soon and he wants to play a barbarian PC - not necessarily barbarian class (we're still working out some details) but from a barbarian tribe.
My first thought was the Uthgardts, more specifically someone from the Thunderbeast tribe. However, it seems the Uthgardts live too far from Daggerford.
There are boats. If he did not have business down there, he could be hired as a guard by someone who does.
quote:
Second option would be the High Moor barbarians, mentioned in both the Gray Box and in "Under Illefarn Anew". However, there's nothing much about their cultures.
The North only mentions.
But those nomadic clans are briefly described (a bit less than a full page) in Elminster's Ecologies, Appendix 2.
See also answer in Questions for Ed Greenwood (2015). |
| Greywolf76 |
Posted - 04 Jul 2023 : 23:08:53
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't see any issue with that.
It could also be an offshoot of one of the other tribes. Mayhaps whatever tribe you like had some reason to split -- they got overly large, or there were competing visions about how best to serve their totem, whatever -- and the PC is from that offshoot.
That's a great idea. Thanks. I'm thinking about an offshot of either Red Pony or Golden Eagles.
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
Does the PC have to be human? Green elves also have primitive tribes.
Yep, the player wants a human PC (which I prefer, to be honest - we already have three demihumans, and that's enough for me )
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Northlanderhttps://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Northlander
The Northmen would be a fine fit for the 2E barbarian kit.
Although they're obviously meant to resemble stereotypical Vikings. So I'm guessing they'd have a lot of skills involving maritime and nautical stuff, not so many skills involving nature hunting and survival stuff. Raiders. Pirates. Barbaric, uncivilized.
Thanks! I thought about the Northmen, and including one of them would be much easier in the Sword Coast. But the player wanted something inspired by Conan, and that's why I thought about the Uthgardts or the High Moor barbarians.
Also, I don't use kits, but a Barbarian class inspired by (and adapted from) the Castles & Crusades barbarian. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 04 Jul 2023 : 20:04:58
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Northlanderhttps://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Northlander
The Northmen would be a fine fit for the 2E barbarian kit.
Although they're obviously meant to resemble stereotypical Vikings. So I'm guessing they'd have a lot of skills involving maritime and nautical stuff, not so many skills involving nature hunting and survival stuff. Raiders. Pirates. Barbaric, uncivilized. |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 04 Jul 2023 : 19:40:31
Does the PC have to be human? Green elves also have primitive tribes. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 Jul 2023 : 13:52:22
I don't see any issue with that.
It could also be an offshoot of one of the other tribes. Mayhaps whatever tribe you like had some reason to split -- they got overly large, or there were competing visions about how best to serve their totem, whatever -- and the PC is from that offshoot. |
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