| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 26 Dec 2022 : 09:37:08
To help with research i've decided to organise everything FR by subject - region, organisation, deity, npc, etc (a mammoth task i know).
At the moment i've got it on a wordpress site (and its all private while Work in Progress).
Thus far i've done all the Realms By Night and Forging the Realms articles and am starting on the Class Chronicles now.
If anyone wants to help out i'd be glad of the assistance, as well as any suggestions on what i should use to actually host it as i fear wordpress will not be able to contain the volume of text for some subjects (like Cormyr, Mystra, or Waterdeep) |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 13 Sep 2023 : 20:38:47
Lots of D&D-related and RPG-related softwares, tools, databases, libraries, etc on google. "World-building" has become something of a big industry. Some is subscription-based but much of it is still (and will always be) entirely free. Even Wizbro has migrated over to "digital tabletop gaming", from what I hear (although I'm a dinosaur with sometimes bad hearing, lol).
If you're struggling to reinvent the wheel then maybe take a look at some of the fancy suites out there.
The example you've provided is what they call "phonebook format" (traditionally name/address/number). So you might be able to adapt a "phonebook" template into your database or simply copy one over as-is with the text descriptors changed to fit your purposes. |
| zyzzyva |
Posted - 13 Sep 2023 : 19:59:05
quote:
If your database isn't able to contain and organize all the information you need to store in it then you should rethink the way it's structured. You may need to add more fields to contain references, sources, bibliographical or video game information, etc. There's always tradeoffs, of course - more fields means more size and more performance impact.
I suppose this is the question I'm struggling with. It's one thing to have a robust system of referencing data within a specific game (I've seen some excellent databases for Disco Elysium's dialogue, for instance), but a simpler system that can be abstracted for all games (and cohabitate with citations for books, magazines, etc.) is a much more challenging prospect.
FWIW, the database I'm building only cares about locating information within a specific place, and not actually providing that information. So a citation might look like:
Location: Mulsantir
Source: NN2: MotB
Information at: [NPC name]
I'm not sure if there's anything more granular I can include here in a generalizable way, but I'm still in the conceptualization stage here, hence my question. I assume there might be resources available for more specific dialogue tags for, perhaps, the Baldur's Gate series, but I doubt I'd be able to find something similar for, say, Darkness Over Daggerford. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 13 Sep 2023 : 19:10:13
quote:
Originally posted by zyzzyva
Question for anyone working on a database--if you're thinking about tracking references within video games, do you have any thoughts on how to reference where a piece of information is located?
A good database is supposed to do that for you.
Each record should contain fields for each datum. So when you look at a record or you search for a pattern/filter of records then you should automatically be able to see all the related data.
If your database isn't able to contain and organize all the information you need to store in it then you should rethink the way it's structured. You may need to add more fields to contain references, sources, bibliographical or video game information, etc. There's always tradeoffs, of course - more fields means more size and more performance impact.
An alternative is to use external databases. IMDb is a good online database for tracking people who work on video games. (Although it's a useless database for tracking Realmslore in video games, lol.) |
| zyzzyva |
Posted - 13 Sep 2023 : 18:49:35
Question for anyone working on a database--if you're thinking about tracking references within video games, do you have any thoughts on how to reference where a piece of information is located?
My (very initial) thoughts are to separate references into 'locations' and 'sources'. So a 'location' will be a place that physically appears in the game, while a 'source' will be any NPC/item description/lore book that appears in the game. Of course this doesn't provide a place to find where in a NPC's dialogue tree such information might exist, but it seems a little better than just saying 'There's some information about Mulsantir in this game somewhere' and leaving it at that. Thoughts? |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 19 Jul 2023 : 21:22:38
Recursive search by tags works, all i have to do is be careful about setting the correct parent for each tag.
Now all i need to do is catalogue every piece of lore that has ever been written about the realms and i have a working encyclopedia that can find anything by tag search or by a regular search for a single word |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 19 Jul 2023 : 11:09:47
And i think i now have a recursive search on parent categories.
So if i were to search for sword-coast it will also search everything in amn, tethyr, calimshan, and everything relating to cities within those regions.
|
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 19 Jul 2023 : 08:30:37
Randomly picking thus up again.
Just figured how to do triggers so that adding record or updating records in one table now updates other tables.
Data entry is now twice the speed because I only need update one table.
Working on tag parents and children next so I can search for sword coast and include everything with tags for all the cities in the sword coast, etc. |
| zyzzyva |
Posted - 22 Feb 2023 : 18:00:23
quote:
Why are you joining multiple tables with the same name?
I structured my regions table so that I can use a single table for any region, regardless of what other regions it's located inside.
Basically, each region row includes a numerical ID for the region, the region name, some additional information (type, alternative names, etc.) and several parent key columns that specify the region id(s) of regions in which that region is located.
The above query structure is basically used just to visually display child regions within their parent regions (i.e., a query with 'Waterdeep' as the topmost region will show each of the wards, then each of the buildings located within those wards, etc.)
|
| Delnyn |
Posted - 22 Feb 2023 : 17:04:38
quote:
Originally posted by zyzzyva
Then I'll use multiple JOIN statements in a query to display sub-regions within each region. For instance:
SELECT A1.region_id, A1.region_name, A2.region_id, A2.region_name, A3.region_id, A3.region_name, A4.region_id,A4.region_name
FROM FR_Biblio.FR_Regions A1
LEFT JOIN FR_Biblio.FR_Regions A2 ON (A1.region_id = A2.parent_key1)
LEFT JOIN FR_Biblio.FR_Regions A3 ON (A2.region_id = A3.parent_key1)
LEFT JOIN FR_Biblio.FR_Regions A4 ON (A3.region_id = A4.parent_key1)
WHERE A1.region_name LIKE '%great dale%'
Why are you joining multiple tables with the same name? |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 21 Feb 2023 : 21:41:54
Finally finished the Anauroch sourcebook, the database is currently at 1 mb. Assuming a linear correlation in size, the database would reach 1 gb in size at 1000 sourcebooks. |
| zyzzyva |
Posted - 08 Feb 2023 : 19:25:27
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Sounds like a good idea. I'd be interested to see how you did that recursive link. I'm a novice at this so I've just been tagging things with parent tags.
I've just been tagging them with parent tags as well (usually just one, but occasionally two when different regions overlap in non-contained ways.)
Then I'll use multiple JOIN statements in a query to display sub-regions within each region. For instance:
SELECT A1.region_id, A1.region_name, A2.region_id, A2.region_name, A3.region_id, A3.region_name, A4.region_id,A4.region_name
FROM FR_Biblio.FR_Regions A1
LEFT JOIN FR_Biblio.FR_Regions A2 ON (A1.region_id = A2.parent_key1)
LEFT JOIN FR_Biblio.FR_Regions A3 ON (A2.region_id = A3.parent_key1)
LEFT JOIN FR_Biblio.FR_Regions A4 ON (A3.region_id = A4.parent_key1)
WHERE A1.region_name LIKE '%great dale%'
displays subregions within The Great Dale, then settlements within those subregions, then buildings within those settlements, etc. (LEFT JOIN used to avoid losing regions that don't have their own subregions)
|
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 08 Feb 2023 : 19:22:26
I wrote a tool years ago that would allow me to OCR text out of a screenshot that was in the clipboard. MS has pretty much replicated that with one of the tools in their Power Toys:
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/text-extractor
That way, whether or not what you are looking at has been OCR'd, you can still pull out the text as you need. Hope this helps. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 08 Feb 2023 : 18:53:55
Sounds like a good idea. I'd be interested to see how you did that recursive link. I'm a novice at this so I've just been tagging things with parent tags. |
| zyzzyva |
Posted - 08 Feb 2023 : 16:59:50
I've been working on something similar in MySQL, essentially a geographical bibliography to use as a DM's reference (because I'm both the type of masochist to run my campaigns open world and the type of sicko who finds data entry fun.)
I'm using a three table structure--one table of sources, one table of geographic regions, and one table of references, which notes the pages where information on a particular region is found within a particular source. Regions also include a recursive reference to their parent region, so you could search within, say, Unapproachable East, and see Aglarond, Thay, etc. and all locations within them.
I don't really have an end goal for it yet, though may end up linking it to a map or somesuch eventually. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 04 Feb 2023 : 21:41:39
Nearly done with anauroch, just debating whether to include the rumours section or not but I think I will for completeness sake.
It's been eye opening cataloguing a sourcebook in that level of detail. Never knew anauroch once referred to the high ice, makes much more sense of ranauroch in giantcraft and the perilous gateway article. Might also help explain why giants suddenly invaded netheril and general matick had to fight them off (because netheril plundered one of the last remnants of ostoria. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 12 Jan 2023 : 21:37:35
50% through the Anauroch sourcebook.
Up to 500 lore entries (although some entries are 3 pages long as they are just a great big blurb about flora or fauna in the sword).
Lots of other random bits though.
The number of tags i have to remember is a slight problem, and whether to make a new tag or not is sometimes a tricky decision.
On the plus side though, i get to read all the sourcebooks and adventures again, and this time in lots of detail because i have to pay attention to it to figure out the tags. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 09 Jan 2023 : 21:19:09
Thanks for that i'll check it out. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 08 Jan 2023 : 19:46:29
-I can offer this, it's not much, but it might be useful for tags for what you're doing. Years ago (damn, literally like a decade ago), me and some other people started tagging topics in novels. Never really got that far, but hopefully it helps you tag things or give you leads where to find info about things:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090430101828/http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1062902 |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 07 Jan 2023 : 11:06:16
300 entries and counting.
Got a list of 8 or 9 of azoun's bastards
A few high knights
A growing list of harpers
A few netherese archmages (which i take to mean were former owners of an enclave)
3 poisons
6 minor secret societies
30 books
The list of tags i have used so far is astoundingly large, but on the plus side, the db is really easy to search in and find lore that i havent tagged previously (because i only created the tag later). |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 04 Jan 2023 : 21:08:28
I've reached the 200 lore entries (and 656 tags) milestone
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| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 02 Jan 2023 : 22:09:41
Cheers for the offer. In a few months when I'm sick of copy and paste I may take you up on the offer, but despite being a software tester by trade I'm very old school and prefer to do things the manual way. |
| Italian Archmage Karsus |
Posted - 02 Jan 2023 : 21:22:10
XD for what it's worth, Valhaeria is supposed to index freely available sources, precisely so that people intending to write about a subject in the wiki but who haven't the book can still get those hands on something.
Gary, I think over time you will need to figure sone automatization in order to speed things up. Let me know if you need help on that front! Valhaeria has taught me some things lol. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Jan 2023 : 19:28:38
But it's still a collaborative effort, with MANY people adding to it, and where the work of setting it up and making it accessible to everyone is already done.
While I'd prefer to see all editions embraced (like the way Wookieepedia has a "Canon" and a "Legends" entry for a lot of stuff), the FR wiki already has a lot of info there and people adding to it on a regular basis.
Maybe it's just me, but I think it's better to have one thing that everyone can access and work on, rather than many individual efforts going in a lot of different directions. Even if the one thing is less than perfect, it's still centralized.
Also, I've never had any real issue searching the FR wiki. If the info is there, I've found what I was looking for. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 02 Jan 2023 : 18:03:06
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
We already have the FR Wiki.
It’s a wiki.
It’s on a wikifarm without decent search.
And it was overrun by sneaky edition wars and assorted loons long ago. Either the same who raids the entire fandom.com, or it’s a slow zombie apocalypse. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 02 Jan 2023 : 16:43:05
I'm busy populating the db with information.
I've got 100 entries sharing about 300 tags in various ways.
Thus far it all seems to work fine. I can run a query to pull out all records with a specific tag and export them to csv.
Its lightweight and I intend to keep it that way I think so improvements will be limited if any beyond the date query I might add.
Still need someone to try it out as user if anyone wants to volunteer.
I have a one page instruction sheet all ready to go.
Otherwise I'm happy with it and will likely spend the rest of my life copy pasting paragraphs and tagging them. |
| Italian Archmage Karsus |
Posted - 02 Jan 2023 : 16:22:49
Let us know how it goes, Gary! You'll want some experience under your belt with this thing before the next improvement- because believe me, the first one is never enough. |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 31 Dec 2022 : 13:18:44
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
I'm not sure that it does repeat what others have done. If what I am intending to make already existed I would be using it and not making it.
I'm intending that this database will contain every paragraph or line or large block of text ever written about the realms. It wont paraphrase, it wont be interpreted, it will be the full text.
Each block will be tagged by any number of subjects, from geographic region, to deity, to important npcs or events.
It will be a lot of work and may never get finished but what does that matter. The wiki sort of does this but it doesnt include the exact text, is open to the writers interpretation and bias. Other things are limited in what they can include because they are on the internet so cannot include text that is not publicly available.
My solution is a personal one so I can do what I want. When finished it may be available to others but will not be openly available to anyone as it is a research tool for those continuing to develop the realms.
If I'm wrong and something does exist that includes the exact text of everything arranged by subject, then please point me to it as it will save me 50 years of work.
Yeah, the reason we don't copy the text verbatim over at the wiki is because that would be copyright infringement and would likely result in a bunch of takedown notices. |
| HighOne |
Posted - 29 Dec 2022 : 19:25:07
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
I'm not sure that it does repeat what others have done. If what I am intending to make already existed I would be using it and not making it.
The scanning and OCRing have been done by others. But these books are still under copyright, so no one is going to come into a public forum like this and say, "Hey, I digitized all the FR books and put them online! Here's the link!" |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 29 Dec 2022 : 18:34:15
I'm not sure that it does repeat what others have done. If what I am intending to make already existed I would be using it and not making it.
I'm intending that this database will contain every paragraph or line or large block of text ever written about the realms. It wont paraphrase, it wont be interpreted, it will be the full text.
Each block will be tagged by any number of subjects, from geographic region, to deity, to important npcs or events.
It will be a lot of work and may never get finished but what does that matter. The wiki sort of does this but it doesnt include the exact text, is open to the writers interpretation and bias. Other things are limited in what they can include because they are on the internet so cannot include text that is not publicly available.
My solution is a personal one so I can do what I want. When finished it may be available to others but will not be openly available to anyone as it is a research tool for those continuing to develop the realms.
If I'm wrong and something does exist that includes the exact text of everything arranged by subject, then please point me to it as it will save me 50 years of work. |
| HighOne |
Posted - 29 Dec 2022 : 18:16:42
Just so you know, you guys are repeating a lot of work that other people have already done. |
