| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 14 Dec 2021 : 03:24:51
A small review of the errata:
Curse of Strahd: Mostly changes to some problematic language, and making it so Ezmerelda is no longer weirdly ashamed of her prosthetic. A few fixes to monster stats, but no major gameplay tweaks.
Dungeon Master’s Guide: Again, largely changes to some problematic language (including dialing back some of the darker or more adult elements that many tables might not be comfortable with), but also moving towards acultural races, which we've seen in Strixhaven, Fizban's, & Witchlight (told y'all). Also, player races no longer have suggested alignment.
Player’s Handbook: Again, removing suggested alignments from all races, but also changing the Drow entry to reflect that Drow are not the same across settings, and that Lolth worship isn't universal in Drow societies. Also there's no longer an entire text box dedicated to telling you how EVIL the drow are and how you're playing one of the "Good Ones". Also they tweaked the layout of the find familiar spell to help it read better.
Storm King’s Thunder: Zephyros, Klauth, Claug-something, Turlang, Storvald, Sansuri, Slarkrethel, and all other spellcasters now use the Spellcasting action as opposed to spell slots. Uthgardt shamans have been tweaked slightly to make them a bit more balanced. The word "Barbarian" has been replaced by other terms in most places, likely to avoid confusion with the Class. Wandering orcs are no longer automatically hostile, and in many cases simply looking for a new home (as detailed in a tweaked sidebar).
Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide: KEEN SENSES FOR HALF-ELVES IS GONE. Clarifications for Radiant Sun Bolt and Rakish Audacity, and Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade have been changed to their Tasha's versions.
Tales from the Yawning Portal: Slight tweaks, and a Ring of Fire Resistance has been changed to a Ring of Protection. All-Tiefling parties rejoice.
Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything: Updating wordings to accommodate the changes coming to Races (also clarifying that you can't take racial feats as a custom lineage). Some minor tweaks and fixes, Creation Bards can no longer animate their enemies armor (you shouldn't have been able to do that in the first place, calm down), the new weapon feats have been added to the builds for Battlemasters, and Weapon Master has been removed from all builds. Y'all can breathe easy now, the evil has been defeated. Eldritch Adept now lets you use any mental ability score as your spellcasting ability.
Tomb of Annihilation: Mad Monkey Fever has been replaced with Blue Mist Fever. And I can see why.
Volo’s Guide to Monsters: Probably the biggest batch of changes, it is explicitly stated that the words in this book are the thoughts of one dude from one part of the multiverse, and the lore is limited mostly to the forgotten realms. Some lore sections have been removed entirely (again, largely the darker stuff not suitable for every table), as have alignments for player races. Any time the book makes suggestions in terms of personality traits it clarifies that these are possible suggestions and you're free to do whatever.
(credit to some redditor for the compilation)
https://dnd.wizards.com/dndstudioblog/sage-advice-book-updates
|
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Azar |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 06:20:41
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
All I can say is: this is why we should leave monsters as monsters.
Monsters are meant to be evil, vile and blah blah blah...not played as Player Characters!
As soon as someone starts wanting to BE something, that something has to become "Good" somehow.
barf
EDIT: Gary warned the WORLD it would happen in the DMG...nobody freaking listened and now here we are!
Along similar lines, connecting (or attempting to connect) monsters to real-world human cultures wasn't the best of ideas. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 04:44:02
Final word, since you've brought up the only episode pulled from circulation. Yes, pulled by the showrunner, Albert Brooks since it had a cameo by Michael Jackson. He pulled it shortly after Leaving Neverland came out and did not want the episode to air and thus generate royalties for Michael.
It was NOT pulled due to political correctness, but because Albert Brooks felt that offering any support to Michael was wrong.
In response to the freedom to watch or play what you want? You can do that, anytime. The producers are just now realizing that by putting stereotypes in their product is bad business these days, any don't want to make money off people that would purchase material like that. |
| HighOne |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 03:25:40
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertAs for ceasing sales of prior edition materials, I think it highly unlikely. The disclaimer that some already rail against covers any issues there, and ending those sales would end a revenue stream for them.
You could say the same about the Simpsons or Monty Python, two highly lucrative properties that have had episodes pulled from circulation due to perceived insensitivities. In other words, revenue isn't the only factor in these decisions; there's also PR. Which is why it wouldn't surprise me if Wizards started pulling old products from online stores. Why would it surprise me when so many other corporations are already doing the same thing?
I call BS on that.
The first episode of Season 3 of the Simpsons ("Stark Raving Dad") was pulled from circulation (including Disney+) back in 2019. There were several articles about it at the time:
https://screenrant.com/simpsons-episode-not-on-disney-plus/
https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/the-simpsons-michael-jackson-leaving-neverland-stark-raving-dad-1203158114/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/michael-jacksons-simpsons-episode-pulled-after-leaving-neverland-documentary/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/simpsons-episode-featuring-michael-jacksons-voice-to-be-pulled-11552007802
So no, it's not BS. That's all I'll say on the matter, though, since Wooly has asked us to stop discussing it. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 03:09:50
All I can say is: this is why we should leave monsters as monsters.
Monsters are meant to be evil, vile and blah blah blah...not played as Player Characters!
As soon as someone starts wanting to BE something, that something has to become "Good" somehow.
barf
EDIT: Gary warned the WORLD it would happen in the DMG...nobody freaking listened and now here we are! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 02:10:05
Can we get off of this tangent, please? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 02:01:16
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertAs for ceasing sales of prior edition materials, I think it highly unlikely. The disclaimer that some already rail against covers any issues there, and ending those sales would end a revenue stream for them.
You could say the same about the Simpsons or Monty Python, two highly lucrative properties that have had episodes pulled from circulation due to perceived insensitivities. In other words, revenue isn't the only factor in these decisions; there's also PR. Which is why it wouldn't surprise me if Wizards started pulling old products from online stores. Why would it surprise me when so many other corporations are already doing the same thing?
I call BS on that. Do you have Disney+? They have everything on there (except for Song of the South, that will NEVER see the light of day). They slap on a content advisory:
"This program includes negative depictions and/or mistreatment of people or cultures. These stereotypes were wrong then and are wrong now. Rather than remove this content, we want to acknowledge its harmful impact, learn from it and spark conversation to create a more inclusive future together."
In other words, it's wrong, we know it's wrong, you're wrong for believing it, but we like money and still feel we can educate you on how wrong you are and make a buck.
Just love when people tell other people they're "wrong" for simply enjoying stories that aren't much different than a lot of things that I see on tv today that I would proclaim as so much worse. How about we let people use their freedom to decide for themselves what's "wrong" and not worry about trying to constantly proselytize to them. |
| Azar |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 01:58:00
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
(except for Song of the South, that will NEVER see the light of day)
Gone with the Wind is - essentially - a love letter to a rose-tinted view of the Confederacy, but it is still in circulation/being sold. How very bizarre... |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 01:47:27
quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertAs for ceasing sales of prior edition materials, I think it highly unlikely. The disclaimer that some already rail against covers any issues there, and ending those sales would end a revenue stream for them.
You could say the same about the Simpsons or Monty Python, two highly lucrative properties that have had episodes pulled from circulation due to perceived insensitivities. In other words, revenue isn't the only factor in these decisions; there's also PR. Which is why it wouldn't surprise me if Wizards started pulling old products from online stores. Why would it surprise me when so many other corporations are already doing the same thing?
I call BS on that. Do you have Disney+? They have everything on there (except for Song of the South, that will NEVER see the light of day). They slap on a content advisory:
"This program includes negative depictions and/or mistreatment of people or cultures. These stereotypes were wrong then and are wrong now. Rather than remove this content, we want to acknowledge its harmful impact, learn from it and spark conversation to create a more inclusive future together."
In other words, it's wrong, we know it's wrong, you're wrong for believing it, but we like money and still feel we can educate you on how wrong you are and make a buck. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 01:42:51
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
So much to say that I can't/shouldn't.
Oh well...adios
We all walk away from Wizbro and their "canon", eventually.
But I don't think it matters much to WotC. They're done with us, we're not the "market group" they target anymore.
The detail they seem to overlook is that we played our D&D with friends, with family, with our children, with their friends. All of those people who enjoyed the game - the ones who are now the targeted "market group" - who are increasingly unimpressed what Wizbro keeps on doing to their fun. |
| Azar |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 00:45:08
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Well, that was the actual Forgotten Realms lore, though maybe you were sarcastic and I didn't detect it.
What they're saying is that the drow always liked caves, and some of them decided to follow Lolth, though only a minority. No Corellon involved here.
Partly I was being sarcastic...
But I'm legit confused now about what is "Real" for the Forgotten Realms regarding Drow.
Are all Drow still suffering the curse of the Elven High God still or no?
No, no curse apparently. Maybe for the better (even in the original lore, I would have much preferred that the drow were simply forcefully driven underground by the remaining elven nations after losing the Crown Wars).
My favorite Underdark Villains...gone.
So much to say that I can't/shouldn't.
Oh well...adios
Dalor, you'll always have AD&D through D&D 4e. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 00:37:43
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Well, that was the actual Forgotten Realms lore, though maybe you were sarcastic and I didn't detect it.
What they're saying is that the drow always liked caves, and some of them decided to follow Lolth, though only a minority. No Corellon involved here.
Partly I was being sarcastic...
But I'm legit confused now about what is "Real" for the Forgotten Realms regarding Drow.
Are all Drow still suffering the curse of the Elven High God still or no?
No, no curse apparently. Maybe for the better (even in the original lore, I would have much preferred that the drow were simply forcefully driven underground by the remaining elven nations after losing the Crown Wars).
My favorite Underdark Villains...gone.
So much to say that I can't/shouldn't.
Oh well...adios |
| Azar |
Posted - 18 Dec 2021 : 22:29:39
"You were once a man of Rohan." |
| HighOne |
Posted - 18 Dec 2021 : 18:34:51
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertAs for ceasing sales of prior edition materials, I think it highly unlikely. The disclaimer that some already rail against covers any issues there, and ending those sales would end a revenue stream for them.
You could say the same about the Simpsons or Monty Python, two highly lucrative properties that have had episodes pulled from circulation due to perceived insensitivities. In other words, revenue isn't the only factor in these decisions; there's also PR. Which is why it wouldn't surprise me if Wizards started pulling old products from online stores. Why would it surprise me when so many other corporations are already doing the same thing? |
| Azar |
Posted - 18 Dec 2021 : 17:32:39
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
How likely is it that WOTC will recolor and/or remove certain pieces featured in old FR/D&D supplements?
https://i.imgur.com/wjvVclq.png
Not at all likely. Why waste time and effort changing content of something that only generates a trickle of income?
I can't answer the "why", but after witnessing other companies commit to courses of action that were economically counterproductive, I wouldn't automatically rule out any possibility. Besides which, someone up the ladder could throw an intern a few bucks and have them speed-read/skim through PDFs while flagging any art deemed objectionable by current business standards. Leaving huge gaps in classic books would be a manifestly stupid decision, but...
Anyhow, I truly hope nothing is altered.
quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
How likely is it that WOTC will recolor and/or remove certain pieces featured in old FR/D&D supplements?
https://i.imgur.com/wjvVclq.png
They're more likely to stop selling them (which I think is likely at some point in the near future). They've already slapped a disclaimer on all their old products:
"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end."
But you know this disclaimer won't be good enough in a few years. We're currently living through a purity spiral, which demands more and more zealotry with each passing year. It will not end well.
Ah. I heard something about that a while back, but I never actually looked into what - precisely - it entailed; by that point, I was through purchasing digital old school material. Here's to hoping that's the worst of their appeasements  . |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 18 Dec 2021 : 17:02:42
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Not at all likely. Why waste time and effort changing content of something that only generates a trickle of income?
Never underestimate managerials. They'll waste time screwing up already-finished work if you give them enough money and scapegoats to spend. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Dec 2021 : 17:02:14
Enough of that "purity spiral" kind of thing, please. It's been proven time and time again that we are not capable of holding civil discourse on such topics, here.
As for ceasing sales of prior edition materials, I think it highly unlikely. The disclaimer that some already rail against covers any issues there, and ending those sales would end a revenue stream for them. Honestly, I don't think it will even occur to them to touch those books again. |
| HighOne |
Posted - 18 Dec 2021 : 16:44:35
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
How likely is it that WOTC will recolor and/or remove certain pieces featured in old FR/D&D supplements?
https://i.imgur.com/wjvVclq.png
They're more likely to stop selling them (which I think is likely at some point in the near future). They've already slapped a disclaimer on all their old products:
"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end."
But you know this disclaimer won't be good enough in a few years. We're currently living through a purity spiral, which demands more and more zealotry with each passing year. It will not end well. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 18 Dec 2021 : 13:34:14
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Well, that was the actual Forgotten Realms lore, though maybe you were sarcastic and I didn't detect it.
What they're saying is that the drow always liked caves, and some of them decided to follow Lolth, though only a minority. No Corellon involved here.
Partly I was being sarcastic...
But I'm legit confused now about what is "Real" for the Forgotten Realms regarding Drow.
Are all Drow still suffering the curse of the Elven High God still or no?
No, no curse apparently. Maybe for the better (even in the original lore, I would have much preferred that the drow were simply forcefully driven underground by the remaining elven nations after losing the Crown Wars). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Dec 2021 : 12:19:25
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
How likely is it that WOTC will recolor and/or remove certain pieces featured in old FR/D&D supplements?
https://i.imgur.com/wjvVclq.png
Not at all likely. Why waste time and effort changing content of something that only generates a trickle of income? |
| Azar |
Posted - 18 Dec 2021 : 11:11:19
How likely is it that WOTC will recolor and/or remove certain pieces featured in old FR/D&D supplements?
https://i.imgur.com/wjvVclq.png |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 18 Dec 2021 : 11:01:44
I've checked out Fizban's, from an FR perspective its not even worth pirating. No lore, just kewl ideas you can probably come up with yourself.
As for the next few books, i doubt it will be a case of editing so Greedo shoots first, more a case of Greedo and Han have a deep and meaningful but politically correct chat before hugging it out and becoming best friends forever. |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 18 Dec 2021 : 10:41:44
This scroll does not persuade me to buy more official products from WoTC, whether digital or hardcopy. Even ignoring legal or moral constraints, the material does not seem worth pirating.
|
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 18 Dec 2021 : 05:49:34
-Han shot first! |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 17 Dec 2021 : 14:41:58
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
I think you mean politically correct.
Regardless, when I see either term I immediately think "boring as f**k"
Well, this is just a preview of the books that will be released in 2024. |
| Azar |
Posted - 17 Dec 2021 : 10:16:14
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
I think you mean politically correct.
Regardless, when I see either term I immediately think "boring as f**k"
I was aiming for emphasis; after all, when we're talking "family friendly", we could be dealing with the Addams or Manson clan  . |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 17 Dec 2021 : 10:08:39
I think you mean politically correct.
Regardless, when I see either term I immediately think "boring as f**k" |
| Azar |
Posted - 17 Dec 2021 : 10:06:46
At least we are one step closer to a family friendly politically correct game of decimating hordes, ransacking tombs, defending monarchies and trying to one-up Elminster in the wooing arena. |
| Azar |
Posted - 17 Dec 2021 : 10:00:26
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
They probably retained the high elven god in case it offended drug users, and imposing a punishment upon an entire race sounds too much like genocidal social engineering so that's gone too.
Plus WoTC never bothered to look up the history in the first place so they actually have no clue of the current state of FR anything.
Besides their version of a race of shape changing, gender changing, kewl people that worship a cult of wizards that live on the Sword Coast is much better, so why bother with anything else.
A hole, but no bottom. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 17 Dec 2021 : 07:36:22
They probably retained the high elven god in case it offended drug users, and imposing a punishment upon an entire race sounds too much like genocidal social engineering so that's gone too.
Plus WoTC never bothered to look up the history in the first place so they actually have no clue of the current state of FR anything.
Besides their version of a race of shape changing, gender changing, kewl people that worship a cult of wizards that live on the Sword Coast is much better, so why bother with anything else. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 17 Dec 2021 : 04:56:16
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Well, that was the actual Forgotten Realms lore, though maybe you were sarcastic and I didn't detect it.
What they're saying is that the drow always liked caves, and some of them decided to follow Lolth, though only a minority. No Corellon involved here.
Partly I was being sarcastic...
But I'm legit confused now about what is "Real" for the Forgotten Realms regarding Drow.
Are all Drow still suffering the curse of the Elven High God still or no? |
|
|
