| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| PattPlays |
Posted - 29 Jul 2021 : 10:22:45
When researching the Sarrukh, I came across this item regarding the Ba'etith. The source seems to be Grand History of the Realms.
quote:
As the sarrukh civilization expanded, they discovered that the shamans of the primitive races living in certain wilderness areas held magical lore that they had not yet encountered. The sarrukh studied these primitive forms of magic and consolidated their discoveries into a series of tomes. Upon completion, these books, which contained both easily researched magical knowledge and obscure information, were brought to Oreme, the capital of Isstosseffifil, for study, where the most magically gifted among the sarrukh and their servitor races pored over them. The sarrukh empires did not last long enough to gather the full fruits of their work, but this collection of minds grew into its own secret organization the Ba'etith. This group's members consolidated and extrapolated the bounds of their newly found knowledge, penning the Golden Skins of the World Serpent (discovered by the Netherese centuries later and renamed the Nether Scrolls) many thousands of years after the fall of their empires
I had always assumed the Sarrukh were some phenomenally magical society with fantastical connections to the esoteric world serpent mythos. Sure, they have portals and extraplanar connections and have man-handled their own faith over their vast history. However I couldn't find anything specific on their spellcraft until discovering this paragraph.
So.. this phenomenal source of magical power throughout Toril's history is.. collected magical traditions of unnamed peoples? Potentially old humans? If the humans, then does this mean that ancient human traditions looped back around to influence their own descendants?
This kind of blows my mind, for ever since I heard of the skins of the world serpent and the discovery by Finder of the scrolls in a Sarrukh-styled building, they always seemed to have a reptilian origin by some grand arcane tradition that knew something humans never could.
But if they found shamanistic traditions of pre-draconic pre-elven pre-EVERYTHING humans or any of the other 'thousands of races' like, that's just insane to me..
On the potential other races, the same article identifies that there were at least a thousand varied races living among the Sarrukh in their own empire in its golden days. Apparently the Days of Thunder were filled with a wild diversity, which makes pinning this down on any one or few peoples seem impossible even if we had written history on them. I'm just stunned that this magic wasn't actually created by the Sarrukh..
The only reasonable theory I can end up at it seems is that nearly all peoples not raised up by the creator races must have emerged into the world with some cultures that each held either a piece of arcana or a unique mastered hunk of arcana. Even the Sarrukh could not complete this massive cultural documentation in a timely fashion- or rather they could not form it into a sensible and useful compilation in a timely fashion. This must have been either due to piecing together countless minute arcane superstitions or translating countless arcane cultures or both.
Did a specific shamanistic culture possess the understanding to create artifacts as per the Ars Factum, or was the entirety of arcane knowledge as the netherese would come to know it exist as a tangled noise amidst countless peoples' magical tricks?
Very rambly question, but this is kind of maddening to me. A player is researching a netherese noble's personal ramblings on her studies of the Ars Factum soon, and I was going to research the Sarrukh's magics to provide deep flavor beyond the comparably naive netherese. However, how am I to interpret the fact that this kobold artificer is not reading ancient reptilian secrets but in fact the results of their anthropological research on unnamed primitive shamans? What is the legacy of these shamans- or are we to assume the Sarrukh pruned these shamans as they collected the knowledge?
Edit: It would seem that the answer to the secret lies in deciphering what the source means by "certain wilderness areas". |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 04 Aug 2021 : 18:13:56
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
I think the rule of new lore trumps old no longer applies given the quality of new lore and consideration for the work of others.
This is completely subjetive and should not be taken into account, lol.
quote:
That aside, there are multiple instances of dragons being on the outer planes and nowhere does it mention a loss of spellcasting ability (there are probably instances of then casting spells on the planes but I dont recall).
As far as I know, that happened in 3.x products onwards, so... you are using the "newer lore trumps over the old" thingy here.
quote:
If the statement about being Prime bound is wrong then we could assume the unreliable narrator (very much prevalent I'm 2e draconomicon) may have confused the weave with them being prime bound. So dragons could be closely bound to the weave and if they leave the confines of the weave they lose their spellcasting ability. This we know is partly true but after a period of adjustment those dragons can learn to use magic again outside the weave (im sure Ed has said as much before in his replies regarding weave users on other worlds - although interestingly he implied that other worlds may have their own versions of the weave).
Or saying that dragons are weave-bound may be a lie spread by Mystra and her followers. Ed has also said that the gods and their followers lie to make the gods seem more than what they truly are.
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
And though in modern times we see dragons as sorcerer casters for their monster entries, isn't it Realms flair that Dragons acquire spellbooks and such (even using magical items to help them utilize humanoid spellbooks) and have been prolific wizards in a variety of cases across history?
That paragraph says that "some of dragonkind's magical abilities are inextricably linked to the Prime Material plane", with "some" being the key word here. Not all of the magical abilities of dragons are drawn from their connections to the Prime. Which means that, if they want to use the magic of humanoids they should use magic items and spell books. And that also means that if Mystra decides to die again, or play tyrant against dragons, they will not lose all of their magical abilities for being cut off from the Weave.
Now, do "some" means "most" of their abilities? Or just a few? That would be the real question here? IMO, they should derive nearly all of their abilities from the Plane and just the copied magical stuff of the humanoids from the Weave, but my opinion is biased here. I do like that dragons are not Weave-dependant, as I don't like Mystra's control over the access to magic.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
That all being said, I'm a fan of "it works that way for some things", such that we end up with reasons for say the different types of dragons. For instance, maybe gem and lung dragons are the way we're describing, but metallic and chromatic are less tied to the land and draw on the weave. Maybe this comes from "falling from the sky", given Selune's/Shar's ties to magic and Mystra. At the same, time, while I say gem and lung... given gem's ties to psionics, maybe they have another different power source, so that we don't even have it separated into 2 camps, but several.
Thing is, the book is talking specifically about Metallics and Chromantics. Lungs and Gems are not in that book, so really saying that this only applies to the ones not mentioned in the book is changing all the info there. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 04 Aug 2021 : 13:46:40
I like the idea of dragon's being tied to THEIR crystal sphere or prime material plane for their power. It could even be interesting if we found out that the dragons that came to Toril from Abeir lost power if they ever left Laerakond (even if it were only true for the more powerful ones).
That all being said, I'm a fan of "it works that way for some things", such that we end up with reasons for say the different types of dragons. For instance, maybe gem and lung dragons are the way we're describing, but metallic and chromatic are less tied to the land and draw on the weave. Maybe this comes from "falling from the sky", given Selune's/Shar's ties to magic and Mystra. At the same, time, while I say gem and lung... given gem's ties to psionics, maybe they have another different power source, so that we don't even have it separated into 2 camps, but several. |
| PattPlays |
Posted - 04 Aug 2021 : 08:16:35
And though in modern times we see dragons as sorcerer casters for their monster entries, isn't it Realms flair that Dragons acquire spellbooks and such (even using magical items to help them utilize humanoid spellbooks) and have been prolific wizards in a variety of cases across history?
Also with the elves being alien invaders, I would assume their high magic would tap into whatever are the greatest sources of magic available to them on any world. Toril's elven high magic came from elven desire that would likely exist in equal measure in other dimensions and realms they traveled to, where they would likely tap into whatever they find. Elves found and grasped the weave for their magics in the past just as elves in more recent time tapped into Faerzress during the dark disaster. I don't think an elf quite cares where they anchor themselves for their mass sacrificial spells of high-minded disaster rituals. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 04 Aug 2021 : 08:14:02
I think the rule of new lore trumps old no longer applies given the quality of new lore and consideration for the work of others.
That aside, there are multiple instances of dragons being on the outer planes and nowhere does it mention a loss of spellcasting ability (there are probably instances of then casting spells on the planes but I dont recall).
If the statement about being Prime bound is wrong then we could assume the unreliable narrator (very much prevalent I'm 2e draconomicon) may have confused the weave with them being prime bound. So dragons could be closely bound to the weave and if they leave the confines of the weave they lose their spellcasting ability. This we know is partly true but after a period of adjustment those dragons can learn to use magic again outside the weave (im sure Ed has said as much before in his replies regarding weave users on other worlds - although interestingly he implied that other worlds may have their own versions of the weave).
I do love unreliable narrator books |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 04 Aug 2021 : 07:40:20
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
I'm not certain the dragon bit is true for FR dragons. In several sources it is said that dragons are part of the weave (a similar thing has been said about elves). Now it doesnt explain what that means, but to my mind it indicates why dragons have an innate spellcasting ability.
Besides the fact that the new Fizban's book will overwrite and retcon any previous lore, and thus this new lore applies to dragons of the Realms, this is from the 2e Draconomicon (p.85), that as far as I know, is a Realms sourcebook:
quote:
Dragons are creatures innately bound to the Prime Material plane. (Excerpts from the Book of the World, which was mentioned in Chapter 1, seem to confirm this by describing dragons as "wyrms of the earth, linked to the fundament of all.") Some of dragonkind's magical abilities are inextricably linked to the Prime Material plane, and will vanish should a dragon ever travel to another plane.
That is basically what the Fizban's book says, just that Fizban's elaborates more and changes a few things (as stuff like lair effects didn't existed back in 2e). |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 04 Aug 2021 : 07:19:34
I'm not certain the dragon bit is true for FR dragons. In several sources it is said that dragons are part of the weave (a similar thing has been said about elves). Now it doesnt explain what that means, but to my mind it indicates why dragons have an innate spellcasting ability.
Now how that link to the weave happened is anyones guess, but mine is that it involves attuning an entire race to one of the early weave anchors somehow.
When the elves did something similar I'm gonna guess that is how they obtained access to elven high magic, which Ed has said still uses the weave even though it is more like a ritual than it is a spell.
There is such a thing as weave masters who are able to change bits about spells on the fly, this is probably provided through a closer link to the weave.
So using the above to explain dragon magic. They are closely linked to the weave, may have their own set of spells but equally it may just be that they can spontaneously alter spells on the fly to make them seem different from the spells everyone else uses.
Dragons should still use the weave though, but it is possible that of all the races they have preserved some knowledge about how to use raw magic.
The use of raw magic is how I imagine Epic Magic to be, really complicated even for the most basic of effects, there are no predefined spells, and if you get it wrong you arm might burn off or you transform into a blob of green goo, or you disintegrate yourself. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 04 Aug 2021 : 05:42:09
"..without the weave there is only raw magic that can be accessed through ritual casting.." Or by being a dragon (or dragon-related creature), who can access the raw magic of their plane of origin (usually, the material, but there are planar dragons) directly without any risks. IMO, I can see dragons not adding their knowledge to the Scrolls just because of that. They don't cast magic as the rest of creatures do. They are closer to the D&D concept of sorcerers. |
| PattPlays |
Posted - 04 Aug 2021 : 03:11:50
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
To note, the ORIGINAL Mystryl was noted as CN .... so all 3 goddesses of magic have had vastly different viewpoints on things. Only one of these was worried about morals, and she held the power for the least amount of time.
Aw man, now I want NE Mystra to cancel it all out. Rule of threes is pretty great though. LN CN and NG are over their average, NG.
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
The current Mystra is NG. So, we are stuck with a version of Mystra who has the same views than Midnight...
Anyways, I don't want to derail this topic sny longer.
I'm not exactly in a hurry to get back on topic, but, yeah I do think "..without the weave there is only raw magic that can be accessed through ritual casting.." was a pretty succinct answer to build off of for the original question on the skins. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 03 Aug 2021 : 15:54:59
The current Mystra is NG. So, we are stuck with a version of Mystra who has the same views than Midnight...
Anyways, I don't want to derail this topic sny longer. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 03 Aug 2021 : 15:34:59
Just one thing to bear in mind regarding the "withholding of the weave" that happened as well. That Mystra is presumably dead, and she was notedly different from the original (alignment change from LN to NG). We don't exactly know what we have back now, but it may not be "Midnight/Mystra" or as some of us call her Mystra II. In the original FR campaign set it said
"She is said to have given the first teachings that unlocked the forces termed 'magic' to the races of the Prime Material plane (and, some say, has forever after
regretted the deed.) Mystra was made lawful neutral on the premise that magic is inherently neutral and exhibits internal order and laws."
The goddess that then took over from 1359 to 1385, was worried about how people used magic morally, etc...
To note, the ORIGINAL Mystryl was noted as CN .... so all 3 goddesses of magic have had vastly different viewpoints on things. Only one of these was worried about morals, and she held the power for the least amount of time. |
| Storyteller Hero |
Posted - 03 Aug 2021 : 04:35:21
It's worth mentioning that psionics does not use Mystra's Weave as it involves creatures having their own personal Weave -- 3e Player's Guide to Faerūn.
Before the Weave of Realmspace was formed, there probably has always been the basic principle of forming a medium to cast magic, so even if the Weave never existed, there would still be some method to channel magical energy and shape it into spells.
It's also worth mentioning that magic beyond the scale of 9th level was never fully banned. It was the standard method to achieving post-9th magic that was banned. Now, to cast epic level magic, methods that have a lot of extra steps or requirements are required, making it easier to regulate. Szass Tam for example tried to take advantage of Mystra's absence to cast an unregulated ritual that would normally have been denied by Mystra because it surely threatened the Cosmic Balance (fortunately he failed).
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Aug 2021 : 04:00:19
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Mystra did it in one novel, to one deity, and was slapped down for it.
I do not recall any such implications in the Netheril set. Page numbers?
A deity being willing to do something to protect their portfolio doesn't make them a tyrant.
1. Well, you just need to kill once to be called a killer, so...
2. Page 49 of the the book that talks about the gods. it says that Mystryl withheld the ability to cast spells to those spellcasters that didn't revered her. She also did it to some gods, as well.
3. Perhaps being willing to do something doesn't make you a tyrant. But when you have an historial of doing something...
1. You're not called a killer if you're defending yourself.
2. Page 49 does not say that she did that. It said she COULD do that.
3. There's no history of this, aside from a single conflict in the modern era when she was still mostly mortal. Even then, it was just against a specific enemy, and not to his followers. And again, she was slapped down for it. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 03 Aug 2021 : 03:02:36
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Mystra did it in one novel, to one deity, and was slapped down for it.
I do not recall any such implications in the Netheril set. Page numbers?
A deity being willing to do something to protect their portfolio doesn't make them a tyrant.
1. Well, you just need to kill once to be called a killer, so...
2. Page 49 of the the book that talks about the gods. it says that Mystryl withheld the ability to cast spells to those spellcasters that didn't revered her. She also did it to some gods, as well.
3. Perhaps being willing to do something doesn't make you a tyrant. But when you have an historial of doing something... |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 03 Aug 2021 : 02:44:17
IIRC it was either The Trial of Cyric or Prince of Lies novel Wooly. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Aug 2021 : 02:29:06
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Well, she already did it (and not only as Mystra, but the Netheril boxed set implies Mystryl did it on a regular basis) and is still willing to do it (as per one of Ed's tweets). I don't know more instances of another god who actually withheld access to their portfolio only because they could.
Mystra did it in one novel, to one deity, and was slapped down for it.
I do not recall any such implications in the Netheril set. Page numbers?
A deity being willing to do something to protect their portfolio doesn't make them a tyrant. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 03 Aug 2021 : 01:53:01
Well, she already did it (and not only as Mystra, but the Netheril boxed set implies Mystryl did it on a regular basis) and is still willing to do it (as per one of Ed's tweets). I don't know more instances of another god who actually withheld access to their portfolio only because they could. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Aug 2021 : 01:04:14
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
To the point that Mystra can shut down their magic when she wants (and people says she is not a tyrant...)
By this standard, every single deity is a tyrant. Chauntea can stop things from growing. Lathander can stop the sun from rising. Gond could prevent all inventions. And so on.
I grow weary of people constantly bashing Mystra, especially when it's on a topic that applies equally to all deities. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 02 Aug 2021 : 23:17:45
Actually, what Ed has said is that while the gods do use the Weave to grant divine magic to their worshippers, people can use divine magic without the Weave. Is just harder for the gods to do it that way (Ed has compared the Weave to an avenue while using divine magic directly from the gods as small and difficult road).
So, I guess the gods were also tricked by the Baeth, or the spellweavers, to rely too much in the Weave. To the point that Mystra can shut down their magic when she wants (and people says she is not a tyrant...) and they will not resort to use their own power to cast/grant spells, because reasons... |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 02 Aug 2021 : 18:09:28
Ed has said several times in his various times that divine magic uses the weave. |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 02 Aug 2021 : 17:48:34
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Or by being a dragon. They can draw the natural magic of the plane itself without any intermediaries and, it seems, without any of the risks as well. And I guess this also applies to any dragon-blooded spellcaster who draws its magic from their dragon heritage.
(Sources: Draconomicon 2e, Dragon #388, "Old Souls: Heroes of Legend Reborn", Fizban's Treasury of Dragons)
Well, combining this with what Gary said about the Weave being created 30,000 years ago, wouldn't that mean that any system of magic created before then would necessarily not have a dependency on the Weave? If so, the Rune Magic of giants would fall into that category, right? Would there be any others?
There are many systems that don't depend on the Weave. Elminster's Forgotten Realms mentions pluma magic, true name magic, table magic and rune magic as some of these. I dunno if they predate the Weave or not.
Divine magic should also be Weaveless, or else Mystra would become a tyrannical goddess worthy of Bane...
Aren't divine casters affected by Dead/Wild Magic zones? If they are, that would indicate they use the Weave in some manner. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 02 Aug 2021 : 17:16:49
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Without the weave there is only raw magic that can be accessed through ritual casting. It's much more powerful and customisable (you are not limited by anything but your own ability), but it is expensive, it has a high failure rate, and it is very dangerous (any failure could be fatal).
Or by being a dragon. They can draw the natural magic of the plane itself without any intermediaries and, it seems, without any of the risks as well. And I guess this also applies to any dragon-blooded spellcaster who draws its magic from their dragon heritage.
(Sources: Draconomicon 2e, Dragon #388, "Old Souls: Heroes of Legend Reborn", Fizban's Treasury of Dragons)
Well, combining this with what Gary said about the Weave being created 30,000 years ago, wouldn't that mean that any system of magic created before then would necessarily not have a dependency on the Weave? If so, the Rune Magic of giants would fall into that category, right? Would there be any others?
There are many systems that don't depend on the Weave. Elminster's Forgotten Realms mentions pluma magic, true name magic, table magic and rune magic as some of these. I dunno if they predate the Weave or not.
Divine magic should also be Weaveless, or else Mystra would become a tyrannical goddess worthy of Bane... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Aug 2021 : 16:25:16
I'd like a source on that Weave creation date, myself. It's not something I recall seeing before. |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 02 Aug 2021 : 14:28:48
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Without the weave there is only raw magic that can be accessed through ritual casting. It's much more powerful and customisable (you are not limited by anything but your own ability), but it is expensive, it has a high failure rate, and it is very dangerous (any failure could be fatal).
Or by being a dragon. They can draw the natural magic of the plane itself without any intermediaries and, it seems, without any of the risks as well. And I guess this also applies to any dragon-blooded spellcaster who draws its magic from their dragon heritage.
(Sources: Draconomicon 2e, Dragon #388, "Old Souls: Heroes of Legend Reborn", Fizban's Treasury of Dragons)
Well, combining this with what Gary said about the Weave being created 30,000 years ago, wouldn't that mean that any system of magic created before then would necessarily not have a dependency on the Weave? If so, the Rune Magic of giants would fall into that category, right? Would there be any others? |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 02 Aug 2021 : 01:15:39
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Without the weave there is only raw magic that can be accessed through ritual casting. It's much more powerful and customisable (you are not limited by anything but your own ability), but it is expensive, it has a high failure rate, and it is very dangerous (any failure could be fatal).
Or by being a dragon. They can draw the natural magic of the plane itself without any intermediaries and, it seems, without any of the risks as well. And I guess this also applies to any dragon-blooded spellcaster who draws its magic from their dragon heritage.
(Sources: Draconomicon 2e, Dragon #388, "Old Souls: Heroes of Legend Reborn", Fizban's Treasury of Dragons) |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 22:04:47
These weave spirits had to attune themselves to the Weave (certain races have done similar things in the distant past - elves, and dragons, and i suspect sarrukh), then they merged with it.
Karsus i dont think did any such thing. I also dont believe he would ever trust anyone or anything enough to merge with it. He's just too paranoid.
The spellweavers would never reveal their hand in any of this, it was their secret way of eliminating enemies without ever having to fight them. By making themselves known in any way would make themselves a target. |
| PattPlays |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 21:54:36
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
The Golden Skins / Nether Scrolls is the end stage of that plan wherein the spellweavers manipulate the creator races into creating a planet wide magical device that provides quick and easy access to magic.
We have established that Karsus' Avatar (W13) was not intended to be based on the Nether Scrolls, and that Karsus was apparently more unhinged than your ordinary Lorosse speaking maniac with their own private server. Is Karsus' Avatar in the spirit of the Nether Scrolls because we assume Karsus is a product of High Netheril which is a product of the Nether Scrolls? Or is it so wrapped up in ego that this maniac would have found a way to do it in whatever high arcane society he may have found himself in?
Whether or not a spellweaver would take credit though probably depends on if their ancestor was directly involved or not, not to mention the rarity of them addressing you at all.
quote:
[Originally posted by Gary Dallison
There are also hints at sentience hidden in the Weave, i like to think these are members of the baetith that found a way to merge with the weave like Weave Ghosts in modern times. These sentiences merge over time.
I'm guessing the goddess of magic dying multiple times didn't exactly keep them sane through all of that. |
| Baltas |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 21:40:00
In the newest version of Jergal's lore, Eric and George avoided connection between the Ba'etith and Spell Weavers, with Jergal being (relativelly) far younger, only being born right before -3939 DR, and it doesn't seem Issarnathass/Arthindol/Terraseer is a Spell Weaver (being only referred as Sarrukh), or at least opposes Jergal. It isn't outright denied though.
|
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 20:58:42
Its from Jergal, Lord of the End of Everything first by George Krashos and then by Eric Boyd and George together, and from various conversations about it.
The crux of it is the spellweavers use nefarious means to make their enemies or potential rivals destroy themselves, they provide cheap and easy magic far beyond the natural development of a race and then sit back and watch them annihilate themselves (all this is from an ecology of the spellweaver article). The Golden Skins / Nether Scrolls is the end stage of that plan wherein the spellweavers manipulate the creator races into creating a planet wide magical device that provides quick and easy access to magic.
You can see from history that the plan worked perfectly many times. The sarrukh destroy themselves in civil wars and making planar enemies. The batrachi create the tearfall. The Aearee create the dragons.
There are also hints at sentience hidden in the Weave, i like to think these are members of the baetith that found a way to merge with the weave like Weave Ghosts in modern times. These sentiences merge over time. They can communicate somewhat with people who use the weave (whispers in the weave) and even manifest (see the woman in grey from Volos Guide to Magic). I believe this is what gives rise to various deities of magic in different pantheons. Mystryl is one such example, Mystra is a later one. The sentience in the weave communicates with people who then start worshipping it as a god and that belief ends up creating a god.
Also its important to realise that the Weave now is not the same as the Weave before Netheril's Fall. The Weave before Netheril's Fall collapsed when Karsus cast his spell (i think he actually tried to drain the Weave itself rather than a god). Azuth (before he became a god) had to go around and reconnect the weave anchors into a new weave (one that did not include the Nether Scrolls). This is why the new Weave is different, why it doesnt have the Netherese spells stored in it, and why it took several decades for magic to return to normal after the collapse. |
| PattPlays |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 20:31:49
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
It was the baetith (manipulated by spellweaver members) that did exactly as you said the gods did with faezress, they got the whole world hooked on the cheap, easy, and safe magic of the weave. It wasnt divine in nature (and to me it still isnt).
Please give me a name for the source of this information during their future research bender in Candlekeep. I want this exact line, in universe, for our 7 int 20 wis druid to see so he can feel validated.
Also it sounds like since nobody has sorcerer levels in my party, I should open Metamagic up to everyone if they start screwing around with wild magic. They've already experienced *multiple* sources of wild magic to the point where it isn't even a surprise anymore. I feel like I'm doing 4e's turf proud.
Edit: Listed source: The YYth phoenix prophecy, according to a maddenned young genasi calimshan war criminal caught raving sarcastically at perplexed Whatedvarians as they're dragged off into the next ward during the late stages of the modern Sundering.
I'm having a djiini attack loudwater on the second night. I don't have much time left with the nonsense elemental madness of Abeir being a thing so I am absolutely going to cause some chaos in the last moments of the Sundering. I need to start a thread about modern Calimshan because that big crystal prison is a confounding thing- and the Genasi "Secret Empires" surprise revolutionaries thing is new to me and it means I get to make the Renshas relevant in Loudwater one last time. Their poor High Lord.. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 19:36:53
For a very long time Toril did have a weave without mystra. The golden skins were the inception of the weave and they were created 30000 years ago. Mystra has only been around since just after the Fall of Netheril.
That being said, Mystra is part of the Weave and likely cannot be uncoupled without causing it to collapse again (as it did when Karsus cast his spell and magic went nuts for several decades).
It was the baetith (manipulated by spellweaver members) that did exactly as you said the gods did with faezress, they got the whole world hooked on the cheap, easy, and safe magic of the weave. It wasnt divine in nature (and to me it still isnt).
Without the weave there is only raw magic that can be accessed through ritual casting. It's much more powerful and customisable (you are not limited by anything but your own ability), but it is expensive, it has a high failure rate, and it is very dangerous (any failure could be fatal). |
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