| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 07:12:56
Ok, first, let me admit without restraint that there is no actual evidence of this new theory.
So, with that out of the way here it is:
Undermountain Manshoon - the clone that sheltered with Halaster, got adopted by the skulls of Skullport, like their other two wizards (the Rag Mage and Shradin Mulophor).
Now, bound to the mantle of Skullport, his nature is changed sufficiently that he was no longer an active participant of the Manshoon Wars.
Part of me really likes this idea. Permanent Skullport Manshoon. |
| 22 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Balmar Foghaven |
Posted - 15 Jun 2022 : 12:43:36
*Adventurers gather around the bearded old man in the cloak sitting at the fireplace in the inn, the flames crackling in the hearth causing shadows to dance upon his hooded face*
Adventurer: So what was the this rival of yours like?
Elminster: He was a great mage, once. He fought in the clone wars back in the day.
Adventurer: What happened?
Elminster: The dark side claimed him. He's more Shoon now than man.... |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 13 Jun 2022 : 14:29:07
New Skullport skulls Manshoon - stolen mostly from Ravenloft :P
The Nightmare Man, 20th level Mage (Dex 15, Int 20, Wis 16, Con 16, Cha 10): Manshoon Prime was one of three clones whose paths eventually took them into the depths of Undermountain. The least of these sought refuge in the subterranean city of Skullport in the Year of Three Streams Blooded (1384 DR). He lasted longer than most in its treacherous byways before running afoul of the local powers, surviving almost a year before fate, and the Skulls, came for him. The unbelievable collision of his spells and theirs with the onrushing wave of the Spellplague burned away much of his physical form, bound him to Skullport’s mantle like The Rag Mage and Shradin Molophor before him, and created a colossal Wild Surge. This surge effected him incredibly – in essence, permanently encasing him and those he touches in the nightmares of a mindspin (for details of the effect, refer to the description of the 7th level wizard spell).
While the Rag Mage assumes a vaguely humanoid form composed of bits of refuse, and Shradin’s new state resembles a cloud of pale red mist. What remains of Mashoon’s clone, known as “The Nightmare Man” among the residents of Skullport, wears dark, tattered robes, and a hood always drawn over his head. The hood’s shadows hide his face. Only his hands emerge from the folds of the robes, and these appear as gnarled, pale appendages that are more skeletal than flesh. While the Rag Mage uses raggamoffyns to bleed the magical and life energies from a victim, and Shradin converts both the physical and magical essences of his victims into the essential energies required to sustain Skullport’s mantle, The Nightmare Man drains life from his victims dreams. While damage suffered by victims of a mindspin is normally illusory only, his victims are permanently drained.
Like the Rag Mage and Shradin, The Nightmare Man is inextricably bound to Skullport’s mantle, providing him a measure of immortality, and he is incapable of wandering beyond the confines of Undermountain. At most two of the following group may be absent from the Port of Shadow or its immediate environs at any one time: The Nightmare Man, Shradin, the Rag Mage, and the 13 Skulls. Although The Nightmare Man, Shradin and the Rag Mage retain separate identities, all are inextricably bound to the collective sentience of the Skulls and, over time, are likely to merge with the group mind. The Nightmare Man seems to venture away from the Port of Shadow more readily and more often than any of the others; recently he has been reported to have been encountered near Murial’s Gauntlet in the deep levels of Halaster’s Halls.
If attacked, the Nightmare Man wields freely wields the spells he had memorized at the moment of his death, and a unique fiery attack known as dream fire which unleashes the raging blue energy of the Spellplague. It leaps from the Nightmare Man’s hands to bathe victims in cold terror. The Nightmare Man can call upon dream fire once every three rounds of combat. It explodes from his gnarled fingers in a straight line that is five feet wide and extends as far as 30 feet. All within its path must make save vs. breath weapon or suffer its effects. Dream fire inflicts 4d10 points of damage to those who fail the save. Those who succeed receive half damage. In addition, those who fail suffer further effects from the cold fire. The blue energy opens the subconscious stores of its victim’s mind, unleashing feelings of absolute terror. Such a victim must further save vs. spell or be afflicted with a mindspin. No matter what the result of the check is, the victim is shaken by the unleashing of imagined terrors. The victim suffers a -2 penalty to all attack rolls and ability checks for 1d4 rounds.
The Nightmare Man has the ability to travel through shadows. By shadow walking, he can step into a deep shadow in the Port of Shadow and step out of a shadow in Wyllowwood – or anywhere else within Undermountain. So far, this ability seems to bypass all of Halaster’s prohibitions on magical travel within the dungeon.
|
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 23 Nov 2021 : 16:19:35
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I came up with a new variation on the Undermountain Manshoon clone sub-theme.
Manshoon of Many Faces
A greater doppleganger from the Unseen in Waterdeep that kills and absorbs the mind/magic of a nearly slain Manshoon clone. So now there is a Manshoon in Waterdeep and Undermountain that is not bound to the clone compulsion and changes form and has other identities.
:)
For his other primary identities, I have him absorbing a Waterdhavian noble Lady, the fey-ri infiltrating the Unseen, the yuan-ti of the Iron Ring, and the potions dealer in Skullport as well.
Instant Kingpin of slave trade / poison & exotic potion shipping / information gathering
That's all a bit much for my liking. It seems like such a character would be over-extended, without enough time to do all of these things.
Trying to make an "ALL THE THINGS!" character runs the risk of making one that is less believable.
I'd have the character do just a couple of those things, preferably ones that are complimentary, and really focus hard on that.
Its kind of the whole idea behind the dopplegangers :P... key is to have identities that don't go out in public much and have underlings.
I might need to pull back on the owner/proprietor of an inn part, but otherwise i think its reasonable as long as teleportation is available. Transform + teleport takes 2 rounds - call it a full turn if you include changing clothes.
Assuming the noble and the potion girl only take meetings by appointment (no store front, for example), and the slave master makes a daily inspection of things, all the scheming and whatnot can be done from safely behind an army of security and locked doors.
Pretty much everything they do is complementary.
Trading & shipping & smuggling (wines, potions, poisons, slaves) /
plus Information gathering /
That's pretty much everything they do. The information doesn't care which identity gathers it, and the goods don't care which identity arranges delivery :)
About the only aspect that changes is now it is being organized by the identity that organized the Black Network, all across a continent, for about a century. Seems like something he could manage. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 23 Nov 2021 : 16:08:05
Something like Manlaster? Or Hanshoon? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Nov 2021 : 14:02:06
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Wasn't that Manshoon killed? I mean, that's what I understood from the story told in "The Many Deaths of Manshoon" (Dragon 415):
quote:
“No records exist of the magic this Manshoon learned from Halaster, but reports suggest that the Manshoon of Undermountain sought out the shattered remnants of Halaster’s mind, hoping to rule the place in the mage’s wake, only to be torn apart himself—perhaps from the blue fire that laid waste to the world and changed the face of Toril, or perhaps at the hands of sharn dwelling deep inside the dungeon.”
One idea I had that I liked -- not sure that I'd run with it, but I liked it -- was that Undershoon found a lot of Halaster's bits, tried to reassemble them, and wound up as some composite entity, part Manshoon, part Halaster. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Nov 2021 : 13:57:29
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
How do you keep Manshoon interesting without inadvertently invoking comedy?
I think he's plenty interesting, so long as he's not charging headlong into battle without any real plan, or wasting scores of Zhents by throwing them around as one-shot goons, or doing something inexplicable like getting defeated and maimed by another wizard, somehow escaping that other wizard's custody with no spells and only one hand to cast them, not bothering to replace the hand with anything other than a convenient mechanical prosthetic, and then hanging out in the city above where all this happened and where that other wizard could readily find him.
In short version, the Manshoon(s) of all but the most recent source material are interesting, but the one(s) who have appeared in the fiction isn't so interesting.
I've long been trying to figure out what I could do with a Manshoon clone, but I've never come up with a way to not be a clone that I like, and not having a specific use for this Manshoon has kept me from coming up with something good. I need a role for him to fulfill before I can figure out how to put him there. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Nov 2021 : 13:52:13
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I came up with a new variation on the Undermountain Manshoon clone sub-theme.
Manshoon of Many Faces
A greater doppleganger from the Unseen in Waterdeep that kills and absorbs the mind/magic of a nearly slain Manshoon clone. So now there is a Manshoon in Waterdeep and Undermountain that is not bound to the clone compulsion and changes form and has other identities.
:)
For his other primary identities, I have him absorbing a Waterdhavian noble Lady, the fey-ri infiltrating the Unseen, the yuan-ti of the Iron Ring, and the potions dealer in Skullport as well.
Instant Kingpin of slave trade / poison & exotic potion shipping / information gathering
That's all a bit much for my liking. It seems like such a character would be over-extended, without enough time to do all of these things.
Trying to make an "ALL THE THINGS!" character runs the risk of making one that is less believable.
I'd have the character do just a couple of those things, preferably ones that are complimentary, and really focus hard on that. |
| Azar |
Posted - 22 Nov 2021 : 21:38:07
How do you keep Manshoon interesting without inadvertently invoking comedy? |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 22 Nov 2021 : 19:23:45
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Wasn't that Manshoon killed? I mean, that's what I understood from the story told in "The Many Deaths of Manshoon" (Dragon 415):
quote:
“No records exist of the magic this Manshoon learned from Halaster, but reports suggest...”
"Reports suggest" is the easiest thing to get around ever. Just ask CNN MSNBC and FOX :D
Similarly, I've long since tossed out the "reports" of Halaster being dead. There is no reason for it... it adds nothing to the Realms and leaves too many possible holes to count. Much easier to have him down there and people confused about events. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 22 Nov 2021 : 19:20:56
Wasn't that Manshoon killed? I mean, that's what I understood from the story told in "The Many Deaths of Manshoon" (Dragon 415):
quote:
“No records exist of the magic this Manshoon learned from Halaster, but reports suggest that the Manshoon of Undermountain sought out the shattered remnants of Halaster’s mind, hoping to rule the place in the mage’s wake, only to be torn apart himself—perhaps from the blue fire that laid waste to the world and changed the face of Toril, or perhaps at the hands of sharn dwelling deep inside the dungeon.”
|
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 22 Nov 2021 : 19:19:09
Manshoon The Many, 22nd level Magic-User (Dex 16, Int 18, Wis 16, Con 16, Cha 18): AC 2, hp 65, AL NE. Arguably the most persistently dangerous “Manshoon” still active in the Realms is referred to by Manshoon Prime as “Manshoon The Many.” Active in and around Waterdeep and the Halls of Undermountain, the Manshoon is in point of fact not a clone of Manshoon at all. It is a greater doppleganger named Thrataal that broke away from Hlaavin and the other Unseen after chancing, and feeding upon and a battered, barely conscious Manshoon clone in the alleys of the Docks Ward. Thrataal’s favorite identity, this powerful mage operates out of the Tower of Seven Woes and seems to teleport randomly into the midst of situations in Waterdeep and Undermountain with spells ready, strike quickly within triggered spells and disappear again before any response can be mounted. Ironically, Manshoon Prime fully intends to form an alliance with this imposter once the shipping and slave-trading operations of the Black Network have been re-established, thereby incorporating the Iron Ring (see below) into his sphere of control.
Thrataal (Doppleganger, Greater): Int Genius (18); AL NE; AC 2; MV 12; HD 9; hp 65; THAC0 11; #AT 2; Dmg 1d12 or by weapon; SA ESP, telepathy, and mind-absorption (see below); SD immune to sleep, charm, hold and detect alignment spells; MR Nil; SZ M - L; ML 17; XP 4,000. Thrataal’s powers of ESP and telepathy, allow it to peer into the minds of intended victims and assume forms that are disarming to its prey. Once its victim is dead, it ingests the brain, and absorbs its mind; after that, it can assume that person’s form with 100% accuracy, complete with the person’s memories, abilities, and alignment.
While as a greater doppleganger Thrataal is capable of maintaining up to eight separate and distinct identities, it prefers to create generic, totally unique faces and bodies without imitating someone else. Regardless of which form or identity it is wearing, Thrataal always wears his horned ring, which protects it from magic missiles and electrical spells and allowing it to teleport at will throughout Undermountain. At present, it maintains only three other identities: Lady Hlanta Melshimber of Waterdeep, and Vhondryl and Zstulkk Ssarmn of Skullport. Each is described in more detail below:
Hlanta Melshimber: (NE hf W13; INT and CHA 19). As Hlanta, Thrataal is considered one of the most dangerous social foes among the noble circles of Waterdeep. “She” is a well-known woman whose apparently limited ability to wield magic is far exceeded by her skills in manipulation and information gathering, at which she has no peer. Few ask her about her business, as that gives her an excuse to pry into theirs, so she often conducts clandestine business at her villa without interruption. Every month, she has agents seeding the taverns, inns, and noble parties with carefully-planned rumors and stories about what she is up to, and waiting to see who takes the bait. One of her oldest and most-believed rumors involves her knowing how to brew a number of insidious poisons. When such would-be assassins have Thrataal’s favor, it directs them to Vhondryl in Skullport; those whose plans do not align with its own who sought her aid have often been “uncovered by the watch” soon after consulting with her. She remains a major contributor to, and board member of, New Olamn bards’ college, a memorial to the death of Hlanta’s niece Cynndria, who died mysteriously at a young age. By assuming Hlanta’s identity, Thrataal placed itself at the center of one of the best information gathering organizations of the Sword Coast and insinuated itself into the network of the Harpers. It also has expanded the Melshimber’s wine trade.
Nylaersyn “The Changeling” Floshin: (CE fey-ri Sor9; Dex 18, CHA 18): After breaking away from the Unseen, Thrataal quickly tracked down and absorbed this member of the group. Nylaersyn was a winged member of House Dlardrageth who used her ability to alter self at will to adopt the guise of a doppleganger and infiltrate the Unseen. By assuming the identity she wore, that of a doppleganger named “Synyl,” (or any of the guises of Waterdhavians she is known to wear – Biafyndar Loceath, a CG male gold elf and initiate of Corellon Larethian at the Pantheon Temple of the Seldarine; Hragnor Splitstone, a male Illuskan human, a fletcher at Riautar’s Weaponry; and Tymaara Moonsmile, a CG female half-moon elf and occasional waitress at the Elfstone Tavern), Thrataal retains access to the group, their leaders, and their future plans.
Vhondryl: (LE hf Psi14; WIS 17, CHA 18): As Vhondryl, Thrataal is one of the top potions dealers in the Port of Shadow, though she keeps a low profile by working through intermediaries. Those who have dealt with her directly describe her as possessing an alien or fey appearance, with chalk-white skin, knee-length blond hair, and straw-yellow eyes. Her features are otherwise plain and unappealing to most. Her reluctance to speak, and her odd appearance add to her mystique, as does her mercenary approach to her trade. Only buyers of truly rare or dangerous concoctions deal directly with Vhondryl – the petty poisons not worth her time. This quiet and cryptic lady can truly supply any drink, poison, or potion known on Toril, but commands fabulously high prices; many find the prices reasonable given the rarity of some requests.
Vhondryl operates from the Deepfires Inn, an establishment which she owns and runs, inherited from her long-time companion Raella Hiess after her “untimely” death. As part of the identity, as Vhondryl, Thrataal wears a ring of shooting stars on her right hand. On her left she wears a nonmagical white gold band mounted with three exquisite gems: a citrine, a peridot, and a topaz. It also wears her girdle of many pouches, in one pouch of which it keeps a trio of ivory goat figurines of wondrous power. In the other pouches she keeps numerous potions, poisons, and elixirs. Never one to be cheated or threatened, Thrataal’s Vhondryl identity has strong powers of the mind. Her psionic powers are the following:
Psionic Strength: 171 points. Psionic Defense Modes: All
Psychoportation: Banishment (14), Teleport (15), Teleport Other (12); Dimensional Door (17), Dimension Walk (16), Teleport Trigger (15), Time Shift (16), Time/Space Anchor (14).
Psychometabolism: Energy Containment (16); Body Control (14), Cell Adjustment (15). Psychokinetics: Detonate (15).
Telepathy: No sciences; Contact (17), False Sensory Input (14), Identity Penetration (14), Psionic Blast (14).
Zstulkk Ssarmn: (CE male abomination yuan-ti): As Zstulkk, Thrataal is an abomination yuan-ti, a 10-foot-long snake with a scale pattern of mottled grays and blacks that has a human head. It is a slaver without peer and has insinuated itself into the heart of the Iron Ring consortium in Skullport. His packs of pureblood and half-breed yuan-ti “jailers” stalk the alleyways of Skullport looking for easy marks and escort chained slaves into the city in long caravans on foot or from off of crowded, smelly ships. As Zstulkk, Thrataal wasted no time in having Quinan Varnaed eliminated (by Harper spies it arranged through Lady Melshimber’s contacts in New Olamn). Thereafter it assumed direct control of Skull Island and the Tower of Seven Woes, and has so far avoided any further disruption in the Iron Ring’s operations. His closest ally, and therefore his greatest threat, within Skullport is the lamia noble Transta.
As Zstulkk, Thrataal usually wears a magical neckband that projects a permanent illusion of him as a pureblood yuan-ti who looks human in every way except for his sloping brow and the light layer of scales lying just below the surface of his tanned skin. The illusion is just under 6 feet in height and has an athletic frame and dark hair and eyes. The necklace also works like a combination of a ring of protection +2 and a brooch of shielding.
|
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 22 Nov 2021 : 19:13:32
I came up with a new variation on the Undermountain Manshoon clone sub-theme.
Manshoon of Many Faces
A greater doppleganger from the Unseen in Waterdeep that kills and absorbs the mind/magic of a nearly slain Manshoon clone. So now there is a Manshoon in Waterdeep and Undermountain that is not bound to the clone compulsion and changes form and has other identities.
:)
For his other primary identities, I have him absorbing a Waterdhavian noble Lady, the fey-ri infiltrating the Unseen, the yuan-ti of the Iron Ring, and the potions dealer in Skullport as well.
Instant Kingpin of slave trade / poison & exotic potion shipping / information gathering |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 23 Jun 2021 : 06:47:26
Ed once said that one of Manshoon's clones awakened, realized what was going on and went back into stasis. According to him, that version of Manshoon is the most dangerous and awaits a time when he can emerge. Sadly, I can't recall where he gave that answer (in one of his Ask Ed threads or maybe on twitter?) |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 21:23:40
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Not a word outside of Cloak and Dagger. A totally abandoned character.
That is disappointing.
quote:
I took several of the references to Manshoon during the "clone wars" from that supplement and merged them into one Manshoon - obviously the one that was victorious in each account. These all became my version of Manshoon Prime. This includes the reference to his deal with Larloch... introducing a Manshoon that knows how to bind vassal-liches :D
Yikes! Knowing Larloch however, he probably snuck in some "hack codes" to take over the vassal liches for himself.
quote:
I put him - basically - in Cormyr, as in many of Ed's novels he had an obsession over that realm. He accessed one of the extradimensional spaces created by the Sword Heralds and uses it as his primary abode. Its extra-planar nature and nearly impossible entry act as permanent protections from random encounters with other clones.
I also use Manshoon Prime to "infinity gauntlet snap" all the other Zhentarim that were slaughtered en masse by the edition changes. He is a master of clone magics after all, so presto chango - several cloned Zhentarim - including a Sememmon (also in hiding but in covert control of the Pereghost and Darkhold).
And for all we know, Manshoon Prime has clones of key beholders and a few dragon mounts to boot. Back to your "clones wars" reference. It would be fitting if Manshoon Prime installed latent dominate monster/person effects. If he wanted to seize sole control of the Zhentarim (or have the clones agree to join Harper/Cult of the Dragon cells as supposed defectors), these clones would just await Manshoon Prime's version of "Execute Order 66". |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 21:04:26
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
Aside from losing clone insanity, did Manshoon change his body or have it changed for him? If so, I guess we should call this version "Skullshoon."
In this idea, it was done for him when he became one of the vassals of the Skulls. I have not come up with exactly how, but the Rag Mage is like part raggomuffin and Shradin is like a vampiric mist. Both have new forms unique to their role of draining. Skullshoon would need such a form as well, and that form would be sufficiently "un-Manshoon" for the clone compulsion to be inactive.
Thanks Masked Mage. I eagerly await what you come up with. I'm sure it will be insightful and a godsend to Skullport/Undermountain/Waterdeep campaigns. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 20:13:12
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I loved the idea, myself, and it still bugs me that 3E just slammed the door on that and the Harper Schism.
Was there any official material concerning whom we could call "Manshoon Prime"?
Not a word outside of Cloak and Dagger. A totally abandoned character.
I took several of the references to Manshoon during the "clone wars" from that supplement and merged them into one Manshoon - obviously the one that was victorious in each account. These all became my version of Manshoon Prime. This includes the reference to his deal with Larloch... introducing a Manshoon that knows how to bind vassal-liches :D
I put him - basically - in Cormyr, as in many of Ed's novels he had an obsession over that realm. He accessed one of the extradimensional spaces created by the Sword Heralds and uses it as his primary abode. Its extra-planar nature and nearly impossible entry act as permanent protections from random encounters with other clones.
I also use Manshoon Prime to "infinity gauntlet snap" all the other Zhentarim that were slaughtered en masse by the edition changes. He is a master of clone magics after all, so presto chango - several cloned Zhentarim - including a Sememmon (also in hiding but in covert control of the Pereghost and Darkhold).
|
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 20:02:23
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
Aside from losing clone insanity, did Manshoon change his body or have it changed for him? If so, I guess we should call this version "Skullshoon."
In this idea, it was done for him when he became one of the vassals of the Skulls. I have not come up with exactly how, but the Rag Mage is like part raggomuffin and Shradin is like a vampiric mist. Both have new forms unique to their role of draining. Skullshoon would need such a form as well, and that form would be sufficiently "un-Manshoon" for the clone compulsion to be inactive. |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 19:39:37
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I loved the idea, myself, and it still bugs me that 3E just slammed the door on that and the Harper Schism.
Was there any official material concerning whom we could call "Manshoon Prime"? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 15:29:36
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
That's exactly what the "Many Manshoons" idea was for. Go for it.
-- George Krashos
For the record, the "Many Manshoons" idea was one of the best threads created before the onset of RSEs. :)
I loved the idea, myself, and it still bugs me that 3E just slammed the door on that and the Harper Schism. |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 14:10:55
Aside from losing clone insanity, did Manshoon change his body or have it changed for him? If so, I guess we should call this version "Skullshoon." |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 10:13:41
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
That's exactly what the "Many Manshoons" idea was for. Go for it.
-- George Krashos
For the record, the "Many Manshoons" idea was one of the best threads created before the onset of RSEs. :) |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 09:33:03
That's exactly what the "Many Manshoons" idea was for. Go for it.
-- George Krashos |
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