| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gyor |
Posted - 14 Mar 2021 : 01:44:55
How much of Nerath did the Forgotten Realms eat?
The Feywild Goblin Kingdom, Gloomwrought, and Mag Tureth that city of Fomorians all are tied to FR in lore, but originally they were Nerath Setting locations that FR writers rolled them for.
Have any other parts of Nerath ended up in FR? |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 17 Mar 2021 : 19:21:43
Yeah, what Alexander said. That, paired to what is said in The Sword of the Gods novel about "other continuums". |
| Alexander Clark |
Posted - 17 Mar 2021 : 19:09:25
quote:
Originally posted by Storyteller Hero
I'm trying to find the 4e MotP chapter/section where the Nentir Vale setting is mentioned but the closest I can find is where it mentions the different settings in the Material Plane, followed by a text talking about distances in the astral dominions and elemental realms rather than the Material Plane. Could you point out where the reference you mentioned can be located?
Might be that part (page 19?) Long quote and am I not 100% sure how to interpret it:
"The rituals described in this book and in the Player’s Handbook allow player characters to reach just about any location in the core cosmology, but these locations aren’t the only places worthy of exploration. The Far Realm lurks beyond the outermost reaches of the Astral Sea—beyond the normal cosmology. The Far Realm houses such horrors that to lay eyes on them is enough to drive a mortal mad. A ritual capable of opening a portal to the Far Realm could be a campaign-shattering event, letting loose a torrent of aberrant horrors to spread like spilled ink through your cosmology, transforming, corrupting, and unraveling the world, or at the least remaking it into something new and unpleasant.
In addition, worlds beyond those of the natural world exist—realities separated by the gulf of time and space, where different peoples, civilizations, perhaps even cosmologies reside. If sigil sequences exist for every point of space in the D&D world, sigil sequences must exist that correspond to other worlds, such as Abeir-Toril and Eberron." |
| Storyteller Hero |
Posted - 17 Mar 2021 : 17:17:39
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Was it ever specifically said that Nentir Vale is cut off from the rest of the universe in any way? I mean, with Athas and Eberron (and even originally Krynn depending on how you read some things, but that changed quick) they were specifically called out as being tied to planes in such a way that traversing from that "world"/prime/crystal sphere to another was hard. That being said, even those two worlds have been made accessible (eberron had a portal to FR in a video game, and athas had kender that were planeswalking). If not, I would fully expect that anything extraplanar to it on planes that other "primes" have would also have access to those places. I would also expect that anything written as extraplanar to FR or Greyhawk or Krynn or Birthright, etc... would also be reachable by Nentir Vale.
Nope. But according to 4e's Manual of the Planes, it's unimaginably far away from the known worlds of D&D (Toril, Oerth, Krynn, Eberron are mentioned specifically). If you decide to travel there the old fashioned style (using a Spelljammer to physically traverse the Astral Sea or the "void" (aka. Phlogiston)), it will take you a "lifetime".
I'm trying to find the 4e MotP chapter/section where the Nentir Vale setting is mentioned but the closest I can find is where it mentions the different settings in the Material Plane, followed by a text talking about distances in the astral dominions and elemental realms rather than the Material Plane. Could you point out where the reference you mentioned can be located?
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| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 17 Mar 2021 : 02:07:14
quote:
Originally posted by BountyHunter
I have no idea what Nerath even is. Yikes.
Nerath was an empire of the assumed core setting of 4e, that had no proper name, but as keftiu pointed out, it is usually known as the Point of Light setting, or the Nentir Vale's world. Eventually, the world became known as Nerath as this name was popularized thanks to the "Conquest of Nerath" boardgame.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Nerath
https://tahlequahpointsoflight.fandom.com/wiki/Nerath_(Continent) |
| keftiu |
Posted - 16 Mar 2021 : 22:00:31
quote:
Originally posted by BountyHunter
I have no idea what Nerath even is. Yikes.
Part of the 4e core setting, sometimes also known as Points of Light or the Nentir Vale. |
| BountyHunter |
Posted - 16 Mar 2021 : 20:08:42
I have no idea what Nerath even is. Yikes. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Mar 2021 : 09:45:09
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
There is also a Desert of Desolation, that AFAIK was usually associated with FR.
Those modules originally were not set in any specific setting. They were latter compiled into one volume that was rewritten to set them in the Realms. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 16 Mar 2021 : 00:34:09
Well, here is my research of the world of Nerath. As you can see, it does incorporate a lot of classical places usually related to Greyhawk and Mystara. There is also a Desert of Desolation, that AFAIK was usually associated with FR.
https://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=20135 |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 15 Mar 2021 : 17:11:38
Ok, so then there is no reason to believe that anything extraplanar to it wouldn't be accessible anywhere else. I hear you on "another continuum".... sometimes I get a little sick of the allegory.... other times I appreciate the freedom it gives.
So, is there a world of Nerath map or anything? I see some map which apparently is from a board game, but that just appears to be a couple countries around what might either be an inland sea or just a sea that connects to a bigger ocean.
https://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?t=7173
Is that all there is that was developed? |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 15 Mar 2021 : 15:15:26
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Was it ever specifically said that Nentir Vale is cut off from the rest of the universe in any way? I mean, with Athas and Eberron (and even originally Krynn depending on how you read some things, but that changed quick) they were specifically called out as being tied to planes in such a way that traversing from that "world"/prime/crystal sphere to another was hard. That being said, even those two worlds have been made accessible (eberron had a portal to FR in a video game, and athas had kender that were planeswalking). If not, I would fully expect that anything extraplanar to it on planes that other "primes" have would also have access to those places. I would also expect that anything written as extraplanar to FR or Greyhawk or Krynn or Birthright, etc... would also be reachable by Nentir Vale.
Nope. But according to 4e's Manual of the Planes, it's unimaginably far away from the known worlds of D&D (Toril, Oerth, Krynn, Eberron are mentioned specifically). If you decide to travel there the old fashioned style (using a Spelljammer to physically traverse the Astral Sea or the "void" (aka. Phlogiston)), it will take you a "lifetime". In Sword of the Gods, when Oghma asked Demascus about his world of origin (Demas is from the Nentir Vale), Demas said that the only thing he was allowed to say it was that his world was located in "another continuum", whatever the Hells that means.
However, we know that canonically Mordenkainen, Emirikol and Evard have been in the Nentir Vale's world at some point, and Inverness Castle somehow exists in the Nentir Vale and the Flanaess at the same time. There are also at least three known portals to Sigil un that world, one in the Vale proper, in a tavern in Hammerfast popular among planar travelers.
If you want info about the Vale, just check my posts in the Nentir Vale subforum at the Piazza. 
Edit:
Now that I think about it, the plane of Mechanus doesn't exists in the World Axis model, and is considered a place as bizarre and "beyond the known" as the Far Realm to sages of the Nentir Vale, according to the Ecology of the Modrons. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 15 Mar 2021 : 12:09:45
Was it ever specifically said that Nentir Vale is cut off from the rest of the universe in any way? I mean, with Athas and Eberron (and even originally Krynn depending on how you read some things, but that changed quick) they were specifically called out as being tied to planes in such a way that traversing from that "world"/prime/crystal sphere to another was hard. That being said, even those two worlds have been made accessible (eberron had a portal to FR in a video game, and athas had kender that were planeswalking). If not, I would fully expect that anything extraplanar to it on planes that other "primes" have would also have access to those places. I would also expect that anything written as extraplanar to FR or Greyhawk or Krynn or Birthright, etc... would also be reachable by Nentir Vale.
As Wendolyn says, I too am curious about the interest I see in people for Nentir Vale, but having not followed the 4e dragon and dungeon mag articles, I'm curious as to how much information exists. If you don't mind me asking, can I get an idea of what actually exists, and I'll give you some of how I view things in comparison?
Some of what I'm about to say may be skewed by my own memory. That being said, I've seen some D&D historians who have made some quotes about the early days of d&d that don't mesh with the things I recall about some of the boxes before the original blue box... but there was no internet back then, and even book store chains were rare. WAAAYYYYY back in the early days of D&D, there were essentially people just creating ideas and putting them out for adventures. There wasn't exacty a "world" gelled around the concept. Basically, they started trying to take a lot of these ideas and put them together into a world format and that's kind of how Greyhawk and Mystara were created (both of which have links to Blackmoor). So, in essence, everything in the beginning was "points of light" with the surrounding world presumed to "be full of monsters".
Eventually, they released the Greyhawk campaign guide, but around that same time people were interested in Krynn. Mystara kind of went by the wayside for a lot of folks, as people discovered AD&D instead. But then people figured out Krynn had one main storyline, right around the time that they came out with the Forgotten Realms. For a lot of us, FR was the first time we had ever seen what appeared to be a fully fleshed out from the ground up world. Then they started tagging huge additions onto the world (Kara-Tur, Hordelands, Zakhara, Maztica, and then realmspace, etc....).
I get that the way Greyhawk came about is how Nerath was being developed (i.e. piecemeal small additions), but with 30+ years of prior game design that people could look at and be inspired by? Was there ever anything like a campaign setting written up? A world map? A continent map?
If someone were to tell you that "hey, guess what... Nerath is really that place on Toril that everyone keeps calling Osse"... other than them having a different pantheon makeup, would there be anything glaring that you can point to and go "that's not true because of X" besides the gods? Note: my assumption to that last question is "of course there is Phillip you big dummy"... said in Fred Sanford voice's while shaking your fist in the air...
In relation to the various articles and additions in gamebooks, the places created, do you feel that you have a clear picture of what things are where?
I know that in 4e era, there were a number of shadowfell and feywild places and people created as well, but they are also relatively unclear as to "where" they are in relation to the whole of those planes (which is entirely fine for extraplanar places... most are that way). Do you consider them all "Nerath" places? What about the NPC's created there? For instance, I know that the SCAG makes reference to the "Prince of Frost" as a potential archfey warlock patron.
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| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 15 Mar 2021 : 02:00:33
Well, seeing that the Nentir Vale is basically an FR-spin off, I guess it makes sense that sone of its lore would be reused in the Realms.
You missed Cendriane, btw. That is also an extraplanar place, as well. |
| Wendolyn |
Posted - 15 Mar 2021 : 00:16:33
I have no idea but I too am curious to know. I feel that many of these Nerath ideas are cool and are welcome additions to the lore, but I am unsure where to look to even learn more about them! |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 14 Mar 2021 : 16:37:17
Sources? I personally never heard of either in any FR lore that I can exactly recall, but then again the vast amount of information I process over time makes me sometimes gloss over things.
EDIT: Do you mean Mag Tureah?
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mag_Tureah
Apparently a 4e addition in the FRCG according to the wiki that's in the feydark, so theoretically accessible from anywhere with feydark connections.
And this one's in the shadowfell and included via novels
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Gloomwrought
So, neither of them were "in Nerath" per se, but rather in extraplanar places that are accessible from the multiverse? |
| keftiu |
Posted - 14 Mar 2021 : 07:32:53
Very curious to hear as well. |
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