| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| jordanz |
Posted - 14 Nov 2020 : 23:55:13
Anyone know who was the earliest documented adventuring party in the realms?
When were they active?
Where were they active?
Who were their members? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 07:45:31
Learned Scribe PattPlays,
You make a valid point there. I think with the Orcgate Wars the orcs are answered, haha, but I do get your overarching point.
It is sort of funny, because the colloquial idea of an adventurer surely starts to fall apart under scrutiny. ;)
Best regards,
|
| PattPlays |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 07:14:11
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Rupert,
quote:
Haven't read that story in a while... It would depend on how things played out, I guess. If they were an existing autonomous group, then yes. If they were assembled for that one specific goal, I'd not consider it an adventuring party.
That is an interesting consideration. I am going to start with the assumption that we're talking about mercenaries, or something similar, not actual members of a nations military.
So, mercs "looking" for adventure, putting themselves in the market place to be hired, and then doing something such as described by Senior Scribe Delnyn, wouldn't constitute an "adventuring party", you feel?
Best regards,
Well why not go race by race. When are the first (if any) ancient records of dwarves outside of the mountain homes assisting others or being hired for work as individual fighters etc? First halflings that were reported getting involved in events outside of their shires and getting into trouble? (not the dragon/giant story, hero yes adventurer no) First goblin individuals to achieve a place in history doing historic things with other peoples? First orc individuals to achieve something besides their people's conquests? |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 21 Nov 2020 : 19:58:52
Master Rupert,
quote:
Haven't read that story in a while... It would depend on how things played out, I guess. If they were an existing autonomous group, then yes. If they were assembled for that one specific goal, I'd not consider it an adventuring party.
That is an interesting consideration. I am going to start with the assumption that we're talking about mercenaries, or something similar, not actual members of a nations military.
So, mercs "looking" for adventure, putting themselves in the market place to be hired, and then doing something such as described by Senior Scribe Delnyn, wouldn't constitute an "adventuring party", you feel?
Best regards,
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 21 Nov 2020 : 19:56:25
Great Reader sleyvas,
quote:
That litter of firebreathing half-dragon jackalopes I met last month would be hurt by your statements.
lol... "...firebreating half-dragon jackalopes...", is now a classis one for me! The mental image of that is absurd in all of the best ways.
Best regards,
|
| Delnyn |
Posted - 21 Nov 2020 : 17:16:39
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Haven't read that story in a while... It would depend on how things played out, I guess. If they were an existing autonomous group, then yes. If they were assembled for that one specific goal, I'd not consider it an adventuring party.
The elves assembled for that specific goal.
On a side note about the half-dragon threads that came up lately, the story was chock full of references to half-dragons resulting from Orchtrien's interspecies affairs. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Nov 2020 : 15:41:59
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
To all scribes, could we consider the elves who stole the gold dragon Orchtrien's library notes that led to the creation of King Killer Star a documented adventuring party? I think the story was "Traitors" by Richard Byers in Realms of the Elves. The events took place -25,000 DR.
Haven't read that story in a while... It would depend on how things played out, I guess. If they were an existing autonomous group, then yes. If they were assembled for that one specific goal, I'd not consider it an adventuring party. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 21 Nov 2020 : 14:29:00
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Rupert,
Ahhh....I have that boxed set on my shelf. Did you ever use it? I thought I would, and have yet to do so to this day!
Best regards,
I came up with a dragon character and one of whatever the human/demihuman retainer characters were called... But it never went any further than the group of us doing those character sheets.
I was a *huge* fan of the 2E half-dragons, too. 3.x kinda irked me by having all dragon types imitate Zeus and boink anything that held still long enough, so that *anything* at all could be half-dragon. "This is a half-dragon chihuahua! And over here is a half-dragon Norwegian blue parrot! Lovely plumage, innit?"
That litter of firebreathing half-dragon jackalopes I met last month would be hurt by your statements. |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 21 Nov 2020 : 12:03:51
To all scribes, could we consider the elves who stole the gold dragon Orchtrien's library notes that led to the creation of King Killer Star a documented adventuring party? I think the story was "Traitors" by Richard Byers in Realms of the Elves. The events took place -25,000 DR. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 21 Nov 2020 : 03:20:14
Master Rupert,
quote:
I came up with a dragon character and one of whatever the human/demihuman retainer characters were called... But it never went any further than the group of us doing those character sheets.
I was a *huge* fan of the 2E half-dragons, too. 3.x kinda irked me by having all dragon types imitate Zeus and boink anything that held still long enough, so that *anything* at all could be half-dragon. "This is a half-dragon chihuahua! And over here is a half-dragon Norwegian blue parrot! Lovely plumage, innit?"
That sounds about right for something like that back in the day when character development in some cases wasn't all that.....deep. haha
Best regards,
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Nov 2020 : 19:03:10
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Rupert,
Ahhh....I have that boxed set on my shelf. Did you ever use it? I thought I would, and have yet to do so to this day!
Best regards,
I came up with a dragon character and one of whatever the human/demihuman retainer characters were called... But it never went any further than the group of us doing those character sheets.
I was a *huge* fan of the 2E half-dragons, too. 3.x kinda irked me by having all dragon types imitate Zeus and boink anything that held still long enough, so that *anything* at all could be half-dragon. "This is a half-dragon chihuahua! And over here is a half-dragon Norwegian blue parrot! Lovely plumage, innit?" |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 20 Nov 2020 : 18:18:45
Master Rupert,
Ahhh....I have that boxed set on my shelf. Did you ever use it? I thought I would, and have yet to do so to this day!
Best regards,
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Nov 2020 : 18:12:00
Pre-Tearfall could be a way to use the old Council of Wyrms setting...
...Though I don't see why; it's a different setting, when you go back that far -- it wouldn't make much difference if it was Toril or Generic Setting #17, at that point. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 20 Nov 2020 : 12:41:25
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
Ah, but what of elves? Imagine a small troupe of allied Tel'Quessir from the various lineages coming together in opposition to the Crown Wars? A priest of Ghaunadaur, a paladin of Correlon, A rogue of Vhaeraun, a band of varying alignments among Ilythiir and Aryvandaar and all sorts of elves who refuse to participate in the collective suicide that their kind are inevitably going to bring about from their infighting.
Completely undocumented, of course, but you could have these elven adventurers rescuing human tribes from fiendish temptations, destroying or bringing peace to ghosts haunting the catacombs in dwarven mountainhomes too cursed and emotionally painful for the stout folk to even approach. Stuff like that sounds amazing for a theoretical ancient adventuring party far before human companies or epic quest-takers. These fey explorers could turn their back on fame glory and family to just enjoy kicking down some doors and amassing loot, enjoying being slain by terrible foes without shedding a drop of their kin's blood while their relatives all annihilate one another for millennia. I can imagine running into one of these ancient Ilythiir nobody heroes in the underworld of Ysgard in the outer planes, standing out as a legendary figure among the many drow petitioners.
Agreed, and using "the Dead Three" as an example epic level characters have probably existed since the Dawn of FR History. And how does one become Epic? Likely through years of adventuring....most of which was likely not solo.
And now we're back to this small group of adventuring primordials that called themselves "the dawn titans" (a totally separate group from the teen titans which are from another dimension entirely) who decided to pick a fight with another group that called themselves "the Estellar". Their conflict eventually dragged in other forces, and when it escalated, they turned from adventuring party into something akin to generals and kings commanding troupes of their followers.
Has nobody attempted to create a pre-sundering Forgotten Realms campaign setting, or at least a module? I guess it wouldn't be the Forgotten Realms but instead the New Realms..
Which sundering are you talking about? The elven or the "tearfall" (because I know you're not talking the second sundering). For the elven one, honestly, I don't think it would be as fun as the only races around to any large degree would be elves, giants, and dragons. Pre-tearfall could be interesting, but for the effort, I'd have to have some people really interested in exploring. I see that more as a one off time travel campaign where you detail a few cities and leave it at that.
Also, with the possibilities of spelljamming, planar travel, etc... the question should come up of why not just develop another world and have players go there if you want that style of play. For instance, someone (I forget who) had been developing the orc world in a thread here for where the orcs who came through the orc gates came from. Someone else had been developing the home world of the saurials. |
| PattPlays |
Posted - 20 Nov 2020 : 04:40:15
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
Ah, but what of elves? Imagine a small troupe of allied Tel'Quessir from the various lineages coming together in opposition to the Crown Wars? A priest of Ghaunadaur, a paladin of Correlon, A rogue of Vhaeraun, a band of varying alignments among Ilythiir and Aryvandaar and all sorts of elves who refuse to participate in the collective suicide that their kind are inevitably going to bring about from their infighting.
Completely undocumented, of course, but you could have these elven adventurers rescuing human tribes from fiendish temptations, destroying or bringing peace to ghosts haunting the catacombs in dwarven mountainhomes too cursed and emotionally painful for the stout folk to even approach. Stuff like that sounds amazing for a theoretical ancient adventuring party far before human companies or epic quest-takers. These fey explorers could turn their back on fame glory and family to just enjoy kicking down some doors and amassing loot, enjoying being slain by terrible foes without shedding a drop of their kin's blood while their relatives all annihilate one another for millennia. I can imagine running into one of these ancient Ilythiir nobody heroes in the underworld of Ysgard in the outer planes, standing out as a legendary figure among the many drow petitioners.
Agreed, and using "the Dead Three" as an example epic level characters have probably existed since the Dawn of FR History. And how does one become Epic? Likely through years of adventuring....most of which was likely not solo.
And now we're back to this small group of adventuring primordials that called themselves "the dawn titans" (a totally separate group from the teen titans which are from another dimension entirely) who decided to pick a fight with another group that called themselves "the Estellar". Their conflict eventually dragged in other forces, and when it escalated, they turned from adventuring party into something akin to generals and kings commanding troupes of their followers.
Has nobody attempted to create a pre-sundering Forgotten Realms campaign setting, or at least a module? I guess it wouldn't be the Forgotten Realms but instead the New Realms.. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 19 Nov 2020 : 23:27:01
Great Reader Karsus,
quote:
-He had some duels with Velsharoon or Savras, but don't remember if that was when he was mortal or after getting elevated.
It was with Savras, and approximately around 161DR. It went on for several years until the then mortal Azuth, defeated the demi-god Savras, and imprisoned him in a staff.
Best regards,
|
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 19 Nov 2020 : 22:34:20
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
We know he was mortal and the first Magister. That's about it.
-He had some duels with Velsharoon or Savras, but don't remember if that was when he was mortal or after getting elevated. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Nov 2020 : 18:43:53
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That wouldn't be the earliest -- we know the Dead Three were adventurers, whilst mortal.
Thanks. This got me thinking about Azuth. I believe he was mortal at one time. Do you know of any info on his mortal life and or any adventuring parties he may have been a part of?
We know he was mortal and the first Magister. That's about it. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 19 Nov 2020 : 18:15:38
Great Reader sleyvas,
And then we find ourselves going back to a time when two sisters were adventuring through the......darkness? Anyhow, they had a spat, and they started fighting, then stuff started happening, and all of a sudden there is this universe thing going on.
Very weird. haha
Best regards,
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 19 Nov 2020 : 17:27:14
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
Ah, but what of elves? Imagine a small troupe of allied Tel'Quessir from the various lineages coming together in opposition to the Crown Wars? A priest of Ghaunadaur, a paladin of Correlon, A rogue of Vhaeraun, a band of varying alignments among Ilythiir and Aryvandaar and all sorts of elves who refuse to participate in the collective suicide that their kind are inevitably going to bring about from their infighting.
Completely undocumented, of course, but you could have these elven adventurers rescuing human tribes from fiendish temptations, destroying or bringing peace to ghosts haunting the catacombs in dwarven mountainhomes too cursed and emotionally painful for the stout folk to even approach. Stuff like that sounds amazing for a theoretical ancient adventuring party far before human companies or epic quest-takers. These fey explorers could turn their back on fame glory and family to just enjoy kicking down some doors and amassing loot, enjoying being slain by terrible foes without shedding a drop of their kin's blood while their relatives all annihilate one another for millennia. I can imagine running into one of these ancient Ilythiir nobody heroes in the underworld of Ysgard in the outer planes, standing out as a legendary figure among the many drow petitioners.
Agreed, and using "the Dead Three" as an example epic level characters have probably existed since the Dawn of FR History. And how does one become Epic? Likely through years of adventuring....most of which was likely not solo.
And now we're back to this small group of adventuring primordials that called themselves "the dawn titans" (a totally separate group from the teen titans which are from another dimension entirely) who decided to pick a fight with another group that called themselves "the Estellar". Their conflict eventually dragged in other forces, and when it escalated, they turned from adventuring party into something akin to generals and kings commanding troupes of their followers. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 19 Nov 2020 : 17:02:28
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
Ah, but what of elves?
-Very good point. Cornaith and Sharlario Moonflower traveled and explored Pre-Sundering Faerun some 25,000+ years ago or so. I think they could be considered an adventuring party, given what they were doing (exploring and making allies for their settlement). |
| jordanz |
Posted - 19 Nov 2020 : 15:20:14
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
Ah, but what of elves? Imagine a small troupe of allied Tel'Quessir from the various lineages coming together in opposition to the Crown Wars? A priest of Ghaunadaur, a paladin of Correlon, A rogue of Vhaeraun, a band of varying alignments among Ilythiir and Aryvandaar and all sorts of elves who refuse to participate in the collective suicide that their kind are inevitably going to bring about from their infighting.
Completely undocumented, of course, but you could have these elven adventurers rescuing human tribes from fiendish temptations, destroying or bringing peace to ghosts haunting the catacombs in dwarven mountainhomes too cursed and emotionally painful for the stout folk to even approach. Stuff like that sounds amazing for a theoretical ancient adventuring party far before human companies or epic quest-takers. These fey explorers could turn their back on fame glory and family to just enjoy kicking down some doors and amassing loot, enjoying being slain by terrible foes without shedding a drop of their kin's blood while their relatives all annihilate one another for millennia. I can imagine running into one of these ancient Ilythiir nobody heroes in the underworld of Ysgard in the outer planes, standing out as a legendary figure among the many drow petitioners.
Agreed, and using "the Dead Three" as an example epic level characters have probably existed since the Dawn of FR History. And how does one become Epic? Likely through years of adventuring....most of which was likely not solo. |
| PattPlays |
Posted - 19 Nov 2020 : 07:31:02
Ah, but what of elves? Imagine a small troupe of allied Tel'Quessir from the various lineages coming together in opposition to the Crown Wars? A priest of Ghaunadaur, a paladin of Correlon, A rogue of Vhaeraun, a band of varying alignments among Ilythiir and Aryvandaar and all sorts of elves who refuse to participate in the collective suicide that their kind are inevitably going to bring about from their infighting.
Completely undocumented, of course, but you could have these elven adventurers rescuing human tribes from fiendish temptations, destroying or bringing peace to ghosts haunting the catacombs in dwarven mountainhomes too cursed and emotionally painful for the stout folk to even approach. Stuff like that sounds amazing for a theoretical ancient adventuring party far before human companies or epic quest-takers. These fey explorers could turn their back on fame glory and family to just enjoy kicking down some doors and amassing loot, enjoying being slain by terrible foes without shedding a drop of their kin's blood while their relatives all annihilate one another for millennia. I can imagine running into one of these ancient Ilythiir nobody heroes in the underworld of Ysgard in the outer planes, standing out as a legendary figure among the many drow petitioners. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 19 Nov 2020 : 07:00:59
Senior Scribe jordanz,
Ahhh, that makes sense of course. Well, I believe the answer you seek was ultimately provided by Learned Scribe bloodtide_the_red with the Dragonslayers led by Rafak el Cajaan, in -1726DR. :)
Nice find again, Learned Scribe bloodtide_the_red!
Best regards,
|
| jordanz |
Posted - 19 Nov 2020 : 07:00:26
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That wouldn't be the earliest -- we know the Dead Three were adventurers, whilst mortal.
Thanks. This got me thinking about Azuth. I believe he was mortal at one time. Do you know of any info on his mortal life and or any adventuring parties he may have been a part of? |
| jordanz |
Posted - 19 Nov 2020 : 06:57:09
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Senior Scribe jordanz,
quote:
Anyone know who was the earliest documented adventuring party in the realms?
My apologies for this being asked again. I intended to as you as the original poster, but asked Senior Scribe Delnyn instead (I was extremely tired last night).
When you ask, "Anyone know who was the earliest documented adventuring party in the realms?", what is your definition of a "documented adventuring party"?
Best regards,
By documented I meant mentioned in writing, a novel or or module or game resource. |
| jordanz |
Posted - 19 Nov 2020 : 06:54:20
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Senior Scribe jordanz,
quote:
Anyone know who was the earliest documented adventuring party in the realms?
My apologies for this being asked again. I intended to as you as the original poster, but asked Senior Scribe Delnyn instead (I was extremely tired last night).
When you ask, "Anyone know who was the earliest documented adventuring party in the realms?", what is your definition of a "documented adventuring party"?
Best regards,
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 16 Nov 2020 : 22:13:44
Master Rupert,
quote:
I would call that a war, not an adventure.
I think it really depends on the cultural context, and ethics of a group of people.
From Britannica:
quote:
Genghis Khan was ready to start on his great adventure of world conquest. (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Genghis-Khan/Rise-to-power)
I don't really think that was either tongue and cheek, or anything other than a true belief that Ghengis Khan, really saw conquest as adventure. I take my own time in the US Army as an example too. As a retired soldier, I can say for certainty, my viewpoint at (17) years old when I joined, is vastly different than now. I viewed everything the military had to offer me at 17 through the immature, "fun" lens of all of the Avalon Hill games I played growing up as well as the black and white TIME Life books I read as a kid. I thought it was adventure, for sure.
I think it's the same thing in this case. I think it could be a nation, or a small group, such as the Dead Three for example.
Just a viewpoint though. I could certainly be wrong.
Best regards,
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 16 Nov 2020 : 22:04:40
Learned Scribe bloodtide_the_red,
quote:
I think the Eleminster groups would be the best answer. I think the earliest adventurer might be Sunbright from Nethiril, but I'm not sure he ever had a "group".
Sunbright Steelshanks, as far as I know, only traveled alone, after he fled after being told he'd murder all of his people.
quote:
The oldest one I can find is: –1726 DR Dragonslayers led by Rafak el Cajaan. I guess a group of Dragonslayers would be an adventuring group.
That's definitely a fantastic find!
After some digging around, I think possibly a good second place may be a dated appearance of the Dead Three that Master Rupert mentioned (and I had somehow forgotten about).
quote:
Shortly thereafter, a trio of adventurers from the north—a powerful warrior, a stealthy killer, and a necromancer— came to my court and prostrated themselves before me. The warrior wielded a simple iron blade that rippled with arcane energy. In exchange for passage through my demesne, the trio offered to slay the divine interloper and bear his heart away from my lands. (GHotR, p.46)
The Dead Three there, made their appearance at that topaz dragon's demesne, in the Year of the Boiling Moats, -359 DR.
Kind of cool. Great call Master Rupert!
Best regards,
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Nov 2020 : 18:55:56
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
As far as a group of people getting together to be murder hobo'ing other cultures as a group? I say see the Sarrukh, and ask them who was killing them before they came to power. They might mention a really powerful group that they call "the dawn titans". Beyond that, the definition of an adventuring party is way too vague.
I would call that a war, not an adventure. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 16 Nov 2020 : 17:27:32
As far as a group of people getting together to be murder hobo'ing other cultures as a group? I say see the Sarrukh, and ask them who was killing them before they came to power. They might mention a really powerful group that they call "the dawn titans". Beyond that, the definition of an adventuring party is way too vague. |
|
|
