| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 06 Aug 2020 : 05:55:38
For my homebrew, I am trying to get a good grip on the motion of the continents and rearrangement of the lands of Toril when the batrachi empires came crashing down as a result mostly of the Tearfall.
This map which I believe is from GhotR shows the batrachi empire as it was prior to this, one of the first major recorded RSEs.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Batrachi_Empires?file=Merrouroboros.jpg
But I’m really trying to get a good grasp of exactly how everything moved. To be really specific for myself, I’m wondering which of these lands is now Anchorome, but to make this thread more valuable to everybody, has it been established what goes where? My understanding of the shifts involved make me guess it would be Nadezhdra, but I’m unsure.
Speaking of which, do we know anything of those particular realms? All I really know is that the batrachi were getting whooped by titans thanks to unwise decisions made by Zhoukoudien. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 07 Aug 2020 : 15:15:02
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
That's just how I deal with it. It explains why nobody can find atornash (because it never existed) and why the events in Evermeet the novel don't quite match up with the current realms (because they didn't happen in the current realms they happened in the original timeline).
-Evermeet was always presented as "myth". That basically everything in the omniscient histories has basically always lined up with it is fine and all and generally makes things a lot easier, but of all of the books out there, that is the one to take with the biggest grain of salt, by design.
-On Attornash's existence, it was completely destroyed in the cataclysmic destruction of the Sundering. The same can be said of hundreds of other ancient settlements, of which no evidence remains in the world; they're extremely old to begin with and the world underwent a massive cataclysm that more or less buried them. FWIW, based on the text in Evermeet, you can put a rough estimate of where it was on maps of the period in "pre-canon" AGHotR. Markus and I did a while ago, that has since been swallowed by WotC erasing the boards. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 07 Aug 2020 : 01:14:34
You know what I find interesting about that map from -31500 DR that I never noticed before? The Jotunbrud tribes would appear to mostly be in what I would call "the spirit lands"… Raumathar, hordelands, kara-tur, and not necessarily so much near the savage frontier. I mean I know that that a generalize map o the entire world and I'm making guesses, but it is kind of interesting from a "giants seem fey" standpoint. |
| ElfBane |
Posted - 06 Aug 2020 : 23:16:33
You have to use Magic/RSEs. For CD to happen rapidly you have to be in a very hot environment with a lot of volcanic activity. So much so that bipedal life could not evolve. So Magic/RSEs is the way to go. Heavy meteor activity can account for some of it, but remember those heavy meteors cause "nuclear" winters. Just be careful mixing RW science with the timeline given... only 40k years or so. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 06 Aug 2020 : 21:01:14
You are talking about meteor impact type event. Sudden stresses can cause movements based on how flexible or rigid the surrounding area. Without a major planetary study it is very hard to determine what becomes craters, slides along fault lines (which have not been mapped), sinks or rises due to pressures inflicted on the crust and mantle on the planet.
So you still likely will have to best guess or make it up. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 06 Aug 2020 : 20:58:38
The backwards and forwards in time I think of as the huge continent separates when they cast the spell, but it completely alters the time line so that 20000 years ago the continents separated then instead
This means that the events of Evermeet before the first sundering no longer happen (shalario and atornash all exist in the casting timeline but cannot exist in the new timeline because the continents are already separated). Whole nations and races are annihilated before they ever existed.
It's kind of like a back to the future thing. The sundering spell went back in time and broke the continents thus creating a new branch of the timeline. Everything we know about the realms is on this branch timeline and no one can access the original timeline unless Marty mcfly goes back to -35000 and somehow stops the magic of the sundering from taking effect.
However the spell should have eventually run out of steam at around the same point in the future from when the sundering was originally cast, which would have caused the branch timeline and the original timeline to merge in catastrophic style.
That's just how I deal with it. It explains why nobody can find atornash (because it never existed) and why the events in Evermeet the novel don't quite match up with the current realms (because they didn't happen in the current realms they happened in the original timeline). |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 06 Aug 2020 : 19:59:11
quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
You're going to have to use magic/RSEs to account for Continental Drift. The GHotR has a beginning date of -35kDR. Nowhere NEAR enough time for CD to work, and account for where the continents are now.
Yeah I used continental drift for lack of a better term. I believe the motion was rather sudden during the Tearfall. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 06 Aug 2020 : 19:55:23
It may not have worked naturally, but looking at that earlier map and what exists according to the scholar's guide and FR interactive atlas, one can presume that things were simply pushed more apart by the Elven Sundering than just "wholly reshaped"... so essentially simulated continental drift... or maybe call it magical continental slide or push. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 06 Aug 2020 : 19:54:33
-The "pre-canon" AGHotR gives a more detailed breakdown.
The are labeled "Primitive Human Tribes" on the map there is shown to be Katashaka. Anchorome is shown to be roughly where Boitumelo and Kolophoon are on that map, ruled over by Aeeree. |
| ElfBane |
Posted - 06 Aug 2020 : 18:53:14
You're going to have to use magic/RSEs to account for Continental Drift. The GHotR has a beginning date of -35kDR. Nowhere NEAR enough time for CD to work, and account for where the continents are now. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 06 Aug 2020 : 18:33:35
quote:
Originally posted by Thojan Ralwens
I'm not familiar with the first sundering (or any map of Abeir), but could it be that both worlds and their continents formed one in the beginning ? That one massive continent could have been dissected to form two worlds (like pieces of a puzzle) that you would separate to form two incomplete sets.
But from some phrasing it seems some areas on Toril have their (geographic ?) counterpart on Abeir...
Yeah, that would be hard to make canon. The one big thing to note though is that when the worlds split, on Toril it was still Merrobouros and the elven sundering hadn't happened yet. Now there is some note that the elven sundering reached "backwards in time", but we don't know exactly what that means. Conceivably though, Abeir's continents may have an entirely different shape/structure and what at's x,y latitude/longitude on one world may correlate to what's as c,d latitude/longitude on the other world. This can help explain the weird factor of the dragonborn dropping on unther to some degree. |
| Thojan Ralwens |
Posted - 06 Aug 2020 : 18:10:25
I'm not familiar with the first sundering (or any map of Abeir), but could it be that both worlds and their continents formed one in the beginning ? That one massive continent could have been dissected to form two worlds (like pieces of a puzzle) that you would separate to form two incomplete sets.
But from some phrasing it seems some areas on Toril have their (geographic ?) counterpart on Abeir... |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 06 Aug 2020 : 18:06:03
Seethyr,
As far as I know, nothing has canonically been indicated. However, some suppositions can be made. Looking at that map, the section connected to Mhairshaulk that says "Primitive human tribes" looks like what we've been calling Katashaka and the island/continent that's directly east of it combined. The section that says "Aearee Enclaves" looks like the island/continent that's WEST of Anchorome on the FR interactive atlas and the scholar's guide to Toril maps. There's a large separate island/continent shown east of "primitive human tribes" and south of "Mhairshaulk", which looks like it started heading more south, and possibly left behind a snippet. the place called Mhairshaulk looks like it split into Maztica/Lopango and Chult. The island chain that we see West of Zakhara looks like it was less spread out then as well. Therefore, especially with that little hook on the western side, I'd say that Anchorome is what we're seeing called Nadeszhda (and to note, the mountains kind of match the mountains we know of in Anchorome). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Aug 2020 : 16:44:19
Simple, it's always been the one continent, but it's been reshaped by the Tearfall and the Sunderings and various retcons still to come. |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 06 Aug 2020 : 16:06:18
My take on that is that not all of Toril's continents were assembled into one big continent. There have been one or more other continents that have always been separate. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 06 Aug 2020 : 15:41:07
We don't know much about it. There is no info saying which landmass was moved there and what other was moved here. We know, however, that pre-historic Faerûn wasn't a Pangea-like continent, because Chris Perkins and Matt Sernet said it back in 2016. What this means... well, I don't know. |
