| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 23 Jul 2020 : 16:01:17
This came up in another topic, and I think it deserved its own topic.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Yeah, I don't view Unther as recovered. I view it as a lot of the folk have returned, and they're probably trying to rebuild places. Proably a lot of them that are returned were still slaves, and some genasi that were "slave lords" for Karshimis probably came over as well. I picture the Untheric folk however occupying the coast lands at the southern end, and maybe along the coast heading northward for a bit. I picture the ship of the gods island back, but with no civilization occupying it (personally, I put a rotating retinue of gods in lesser avatar form … ie. sharing a body with a mortal... actually there while in Abeir). But I'm picturing Tymanther as occupying the more interior lands, and maybe even the area that used to be Messemprar.
We know most of the returned Untherans ARE slaves, if not all. IIRC, the only ones with some degree of freedom were the priests of Gilgeam, and I don't know if they were just privileged slaves. That's why there were almost 2000 people willing to desert Gilgeam at the start of The Devil You Know (of these, only almost 1000 succeeded).
Now that I think about it, in the novel, the Untherans began to rebuild Unthalass at the start of 1487 DR, but how much they would have advanced by 1492? I guess they will be still focused in that area, maybe with a new town nearby. I mean, we don't know how much resources they have, besides man-power (a few thousand slaves?). And Unthalass was nearly rubble since it was destroyed by Gilgeam and Tiamat in the Time of Troubles, and then nearly buried during the Spellplague. They have a lot of work to do to...
As for the slave lords... maybe? We know Shyr was not transferred to Toril (Gilgeam's army was outside of it when the transferring happened, and they ended up a few miles outside Unthalass); but perhaps the blue flames would have transferred a few Shyran genasies (?) that were outside the city. Perhaps a whole platoon of city guards or something. Something I know, if they go to Akanûl they will not be welcomed there. The Akanûlans were slaves themselves while in Abeir, and they dislike the slaver culture of Calimshan. The Shyrans would be welcomed there, tho.
As for the coast lands, Unther definitely makes up the coast north of the delta of the Alamber. But the southern coast is definitely Tymantheran territory. Djerad Kethendi is just in the opposite coast of Unthalass, and the Untherans are unable to defeat Vivesh Nannari (Nanna-Sin) as per the SCAG. If you have BRJ proto-map of Tymanther, perhaps Unther currently goes from Unthalass' bay up north to Faol Egurod.
As for Tymanther, the SCAG says the dragonborn expanded around Ash Lake and south of it. Perhaps they surrendered their northern lands?
As for Arush Vayem, it wasn't sent to Abeir, as the novel depicted it in Toril after the transferring of lands.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Who occupied that area? Is it more dragonborn?
In Abeir? IIRC, this was part of Shyr, or the territory of the Dream Giants. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 29 Apr 2025 : 18:52:52
That's an excellent question. We also have Babylonian Tiamat eaten by "something older" (implied to be our D&D Tiamat, the Dragon Queen) during the foundational days of the Untheric pantheon in Toril.
Definitely, the Untheric pantheon made excellent ingredients for a dragon's dinner! |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 29 Apr 2025 : 13:19:09
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Random thoughts that keep me awake: how do you call the restored pantheon of the returned Untheric gods? The Neo Untheric Pantheon? The Tymantheric Pantheon?
Anyways, I did a compilation of the current status of the gods of this "new" pantheon.
Full gods:
- Bahamut (subsumed completely Marduk's religion and portfolio, per Backdrop: Chessenta)
- Tiamat
- Assuran (the dragonborn and returned Untherans will definitely call him Assuran, instead of Hoar; I can see Assuran's faith returning to the area, as Enlil has no reason to deny him his return to Zigguraxus)
Demigods?
- Enlil (not enough following to be a proper god, yet, but he is definitely stronger than your average demigod)
- Gilgeam (only worshiped in restored Unther; hated everywhere else - assuming of course he is the real deal and not just a human using magic items)
Enhanced-divine animals:
- Visvesh-Nannari (resurrected Nanna-Sin as an immortal dragorn turtle)
- Inana (resurrected in the body of a cat in Erin Evan's Qal Contract Murders, still too weak to be fully a god)
- Meirytraukkrul (ate Ki's divine corpse and became a quasi-deity/demigod dragon, per Edlore)
Further random thought.... is the reason that there is a proliferation of dragons attaining divinity in and around the Old Empires BECAUSE they've been eating the godflesh of fallen deities? I mean, we the millenium dragon that was attaining divinity. We have that after the ToT when the Dark Lady transformed into Tiamat, Tiamat's essence was split into 3 dragons until Tchazzar ate the other two. Then Hoar just sounds like a dragon from 1st edition disguised as a dragon (i.e. three thunders.... three dragon breaths per day). Then we have whole Bahamaut was pretending to be Marduk and Enlil also having ties to dragons.
Further thought, were the "godly manifestations" formed using transformed draconic bodies.... seeing as how many dragons have posed as human over time. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 29 Apr 2025 : 09:53:29
Random thoughts that keep me awake: how do you call the restored pantheon of the returned Untheric gods? The Neo Untheric Pantheon? The Tymantheric Pantheon?
Anyways, I did a compilation of the current status of the gods of this "new" pantheon.
Full gods:
- Bahamut (subsumed completely Marduk's religion and portfolio, per Backdrop: Chessenta)
- Tiamat
- Assuran (the dragonborn and returned Untherans will definitely call him Assuran, instead of Hoar; I can see Assuran's faith returning to the area, as Enlil has no reason to deny him his return to Zigguraxus)
Demigods?
- Enlil (not enough following to be a proper god, yet, but he is definitely stronger than your average demigod)
- Gilgeam (only worshiped in restored Unther; hated everywhere else - assuming of course he is the real deal and not just a human using magic items)
Enhanced-divine animals:
- Visvesh-Nannari (resurrected Nanna-Sin as an immortal dragorn turtle)
- Inana (resurrected in the body of a cat in Erin Evan's Qal Contract Murders, still too weak to be fully a god)
- Meirytraukkrul (ate Ki's divine corpse and became a quasi-deity/demigod dragon, per Edlore) |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 22 Apr 2025 : 08:31:29
Dunno if people here remember, but around 2017-2018 I was working on a "super" campaign set in the Old Empires, but my players didn't liked the idea and so I just abandoned the idea. I've been found the document with what I had in mind back then. I update it with Ed's ideas from the Unther video, and I'm going to share it here. If someone finds it useful for their home campaign, you are free to use these ideas, just let me know how it goes.
Sources of inspiration
Sourcebooks
Old Empires (2e)
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (3e)
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide/PLayer's Guide (4e)
Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (5e 2014)
Novels
- Brotherhood of the Griffon series (Of the series, "The Captive Flame", "Whispers of Venom", and "The Spectral Blaze", deal with the relationship of Akanûl, Chessenta and Tymanther in 1479 DR).
- Sword of the Gods duology (The two novels are set in Akanûl in 1479 DR, just after the events of the novels above, and do small references to the Akanûl-Tymanther relationship)
- Brimstone Angels series (Of the series, "Ashes of the Tyrant" and "The Devil You Know" deal with the situation of Tymanther in 1486-1487 DR, and deal with the Tymanther-Unther relationship, with small references to the Akanûl-Tymanther relationship and potential Mulhorand-Tymanther relationship).
Others
Ed Greenwood's video on Unther (for the new updates)
Overview of the campaign
The Spellplague (1385 DR) and Second Sundering (1480s DR) reshaped southeastern Faerûn, causing territorial shifts, societal upheaval, and new diplomatic dynamics for the Old Empires (Mulhorand, Unther, Chessenta), and the new nations that arose in the century between both events (Akanûl, Tymanther, and High Imaskar), with other secret factions trying to influence the situation to their benefit (Glolmarra, Abolethic Sovereigny, Okoth, Meirytraukkrul).
Below, I detail the relationships between these nations, combining established lore with logical extrapolations for the current state (post-1487 DR).
Nations and factions:
Akanûl
Akanûl, a young nation of genasi, emerged in western Chessenta after the Spellplague (1385 DR) brought a fragment of Abeir to Toril. By 1489 DR, Akanûl is a stable but insular state, bordered by Chessenta and Tymanther. Currently led by Queen Arathane and the council of the Four Stewards.
Chessenta
Chessenta, a confederation of city-states and one of the so-called Old Empires, is a land of martial culture and internal division as of 1489 DR. Officially led by War Hero Shala Karanok, each city-state currently is self-governed and involved in civil war.
Unther
Unther, another Old Empire, has faced upheaval but persists in a diminished state by 1489 DR. Led by the tyrannical God-King Gilgeam, the nation is currently focused in rebuild and their cold war with Tymanther.
Tymanther
A young, militaristic dragonborn nation centered in Djerad Thymar, one of the architectural marvels of modern Faerûn By 1489 DR, Tymanther is at war with Unther, as Gilgeam seeks to reclaim what he considers "his ancentral lands". The First Tymanther-Unther War ended in a stalemate, but tensions persist in a cold war. Currently led by Vanquisher Yrjixtilex Kallan.
Mulhorand
The oldest of the Old Empires, led by the God-Kings of the Pharaonic pantheon (Re, Horus, Osisris, etc.), by 1489 DR the empire is focusing on rebuilding, after their victory in the Mulhorandi Rebellion.
High Imaskar
After the Spellplague devastated Mulhorand, High Imaskar, a nation descended from ancient Imaskari (known for enslaving the ancestors of Mulani), conquered Mulhorand’s lands. Their anti-slavery policies marked a cultural shift from their ancestors. However, it was destroyed in the aftermath of the Mulhorandi Rebellion and ceased to be as a political entity, its inhabitants scattered to the four winds.
Okoth
Okoth, the Empire of the Shimmering Sun, was the first sarrukh civilization, founded during the time of the fable Creator Races in Azulduth (south of Mulhorand). It collapsed due to civil war in ancient times, but was secretly reborn by the 14th century DR. Ruled by a sarrukh council, Okoth seeks to manipulate Faerûn’s wars to restore sarrukh dominance, using yuan-ti, wereserpents, and werecrocodiles spies to sow chaos and weaken rivals.
Glolmarra
Glolmarra is a loose subterranean alliance of beholders living in the Underdark just below the Old Empires area, remains of an older Beholder empire lost long ago, who want to rebuilt and dominate all of the area. Beholders, paranoid and xenophobic, use monstrous minions (e.g., gauths, gazers) to try to enslave humans, dragonborn, and genasi. Beholders’ paranoia fuels infighting, weakening Glolmarra’s cohesion but not its ambition to dominate the surface.
Abolethic Sovereignty
The Abolethic Sovereignty, ancient aboleths from the flying city Xxiphu, seek to unlock the Far Manifold to unleash Far Realm horrors. The Sovereignty’s alien mindset drives their goal to merge Toril with the Far Realm, using the Symphony of Madness to corrupt and dominate. They study Spellplague-related sites and control kuo-toa tribes.
Meirytraukkrul (Meer)
Meer, a blue dragon who gained divine powers after eating the corpse of the divine manifestation of the Untheric goddess Ki, claims southern Tymanther as her domain. She controls animals, vegetation, and the land itself, shaping the region to her will. Meer operates covertly, using her powers to thwart invaders in southern Tymanther. Her territorial claims put her at odds with all factions, especially Tymanther’s dragonborn, who are not fond of dragons.
Relationships:
Akanûl and Chessenta
--Historical Context:
Spellplague Fallout (1385–1395 DR): The Spellplague devastated Chessenta, enabling the Karanok family of Luthcheq to unify the region under their rule. Western Chessenta, including the city of Airspur, was abandoned due to destruction.
Akanûl’s Founding: In 1386 DR, genasi from Abeir (Toril’s sister world) were transported to Airspur, rebuilding it and establishing Akanûl as a new kingdom.
Pre-Sundering Relations: Over the next century, Akanûl and Chessenta developed strong diplomatic and trade ties, benefiting from mutual stability.
Second Sundering Impact: The Karanok regime weakened, leading to a civil war that fractured Chessenta into independent city-states once again. Airspur, still inhabited by genasi, is now considered part of Chessenta by some outsiders (per Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide).
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Airspur’s genasi likely maintain a distinct Akanûlan identity, viewing themselves as a semi-autonomous kingdom rather than fully integrated into Chessenta.
Relations with Chessentan city-states depend on the civil war’s outcome. Luthcheq, the former Karanok stronghold, likely retains good ties with Akanûl due to historical trade. Other cities, like Erebos (now under the leadership of Tchazzar), may be less cooperative.
Akanûl’s stability and genasi culture make it a regional trade hub, potentially strengthening its influence amid Chessenta’s fragmentation.
High Imaskar Connection: Akanûl’s prior alliance with High Imaskar strengthened its regional influence but now complicates relations with Mulhorand. Chessenta’s historical enmity with High Imaskar reinforces its distrust of Akanûl’s genasi, particularly among the nobility.
Akanûl and High Imaskar
--Historical Context:
Strong Alliance: Akanûl’s anti-slavery genasi aligned closely with High Imaskar, fostering trade and diplomacy.
1486 DR Fall: Akanûl likely couldn’t aid High Imaskar against Mulhorand due to its own regional pressures (e.g., Chessenta’s civil war), but no betrayal is noted.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Akanûl may shelter exiled Imaskari nobles, leveraging their knowledge for trade or intrigue. This risks Mulhorandi nobles ire but aligns with Akanûl’s pragmatic diplomacy.
The God-Kings’ rebuilding needs ensure Akanûl remains a valued trade partner despite tensions.
Akanûl and Tymanther
--Historical Context:
Abeiran Roots: Akanûl’s genasi and Tymanther’s dragonborn share a history of conflict from their time in Abeir, where their ancestors clashed.
Post-Spellplague Tensions: After their founding in 1386 DR, Akanûl and Tymanther frequently skirmished, with Tymantheran and Akanûlan forces invading each other or fighting on Chessentan soil.
High Imaskar Factor: Both nations bonded with High Imaskar over anti-slavery policies, but High Imaskar’s betrayal of Tymanther in 1479 DR didn’t directly affect Akanûl’s ties with Tymanther.
Diplomatic Shift (1479–1486 DR): During the Dragon Invasion of 1479 DR, both nations’ leaders pursued diplomacy to counter the threat. By 1486 DR , formal diplomatic relations existed, though their warmth is unclear.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Relations likely remain stable but cautious, with diplomacy preventing open conflict. Trade agreements may exist, but deep trust is hindered by historical animosity.
Both nations face external pressures (e.g., Unther’s aggression for Tymanther, Chessenta’s instability for Akanûl), encouraging pragmatic cooperation.
Akanûl and Abolethic Sovereignty
--Historical Context:
Xxiphu destroyed Akanûl’s Brassune (1429 DR) and Tohrepur (1473 DR); attacked again in 1479 DR (War of the Shores).
Akanûl repelled attacks but remains a prime target.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Frequent Xxiphu attacks threaten Akanûl’s cities; genasi bolster defenses.
Akanûl allies with Chessenta against the Sovereignty but fears their alien motives.
The Sovereignty’s Far Realm agenda drives relentless assaults on Akanûl, seen as a strategic target due to its Abeiran origins and proximity to the Sea of Fallen Stars. Akanûl’s resistance is fierce but strained by Xxiphu’s mobility and the region's political instability.
Chessenta and Tymanther
--Historical Context:
Post-Spellplague Alliance: After Tymanther’s founding, it established strong trade and diplomatic ties with unified Chessenta under the Karanoks.
Dragon Invasion Crisis: During the invasion, dragons falsely accused Tymanther’s dragonborn of war crimes in Chessenta. Tymanther’s aid in stopping the dragon Tchazzar from destroying Luthcheq not only cleared their name but strengthened ties.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Post-Sundering Uncertainty: Chessenta’s dissolution into city-states after the Second Sundering leaves the status of Tymanther’s relations unclear. Tymanther likely maintains good relations with Luthcheq, given their shared history and mutual benefit from trade.
Relations with other city-states vary. Erebos, ruled by a resurrected Tchazzar, is likely hostile due to his animosity toward dragonborn.
Tymanther’s need for reliable trade partners may push it to negotiate with stable Chessentan cities, but the civil war complicates broader alliances.
High Imaskar Legacy: Chessenta’s hatred of High Imaskar may make some city-states suspicious of Tymanther’s past alliance, though Luthcheq’s practical trade needs likely override this.
Chessenta and Abolethic Sovereignty
--Historical Context:
Xxiphu attacked Chessenta during the War of the Shores (1479 DR), repelled by an Akanûl-Chessenta alliance.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Sporadic Xxiphu attacks threaten coastal cities; Chessenta relies on Akanûl for defense.
Despite fears of the Sovereignty’s motives, the city-states remain at war.
The Sovereignty’s alien threat forces Chessenta to ally with Akanûl, but its disunity weakens resistance. Xxiphu’s unpredictable strikes keep Chessenta on edge.
Akanûl/Chessenta and Unther
--Historical Context:
Chessenta’s Origins: Chessenta seceded from Unther centuries ago, fostering a historical enmity. The original Untheran god-king Gilgeam was despised, and his modern incarnation (post-Second Sundering) is likely no more popular.
Akanûl’s Stance: Founded by ex-slaves, Akanûl vehemently opposes slavery, a cornerstone of Unther’s economy and culture under Gilgeam.
Unther’s Return: Unther reappeared in Toril during the Second Sundering, reclaiming territory from Tymanther and reestablishing itself as a militaristic, slavery-driven state.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Chessenta: Most city-states, especially Luthcheq, likely view Unther with hostility due to historical grudges and Gilgeam’s aggressive expansion.
Akanûl: Akanûl’s anti-slavery ethos makes relations with Unther nonexistent or openly hostile. Skirmishes or trade embargoes are plausible.
Unther’s focus on consolidating its new territory limits direct conflict with Akanûl or Chessenta, but tensions remain high.
Akanûl/Chessenta and Mulhorand
--Historical Context:
Chessenta: Relations before the Spellplague varied between city-states, but most likely were benifical for both parties.
Akanûl: No direct relations between Mulhorand and Akanûl, due to Akanûl rising after Mulhorand's undoing in the Spellplague.
Mulhorand’s State: Mulhorand is rebuilding after the Spellplague and Second Sundering, led by new God-Kings who abolished slavery.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Mulhorand’s Needs: Rebuilding requires resources like food, materials, etc., which Mulhorand may struggle to produce on its own. This incentivizes trade with Akanûl (a stable agricultural hub) and select Chessentan cities (e.g., Luthcheq, Erebos).
Chessenta’s Instability: Mulhorand may hesitate to engage deeply with Chessenta due to its civil war, preferring Akanûl as a more reliable partner.
Akanûl’s Openness: Akanûl’s genasi, lacking historical grudges against Mulhorand, may welcome trade, especially given Mulhorand’s anti-slavery reforms.
High Imaskar’s Role: Mulhorand’s nobility likely distrust Akanûl due to its High Imaskar ties, but the God-Kings prioritize rebuilding and welcome Akanûl’s agricultural trade.
Akanûl/Chessenta and Glolmarra
--Historical Context:
No recorded interactions; Glolmarra’s subterranean nature limits early contact.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Glolmarra’s minions raid Akanûl’s borders, attempting to enslave genasi and humans. Akanûl struggles against unpredictable beholder attacks; Chessenta’s disunity hampers resistance.
Glolmarra exploits Chessenta’s chaos, targeting weak city-states. Beholder paranoia limits coordinated assaults, but raids disrupt Akanûl and Chessenta’s stability.
Akanûl/Chessenta and Okoth
--Historical Context:
Okoth’s secrecy prevents historical contact.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Okoth’s yuan-ti spies likely infiltrate Akanûl and Chessenta, sowing discord to weaken these nations, perhaps even exacerbating Chessenta’s civil war, backing rival city-states.
Akanûl and Chessenta are unaware of Okoth but may suspect external manipulation.
Okoth’s covert agenda to destabilize surface nations targets Akanûl and Chessenta’s stability.
Akanûl’s genasi, focused on Chessenta and Abolethic threats, remain oblivious but vulnerable to yuan-ti schemes.
Okoth sees Chessenta’s fragmentation as an opportunity to weaken its potentially most dangerous rival, using yuan-ti to deepen divisions.
Akanûl/Chessenta and Meirytraukkrul (Meer)
--Historical Context:
No known interactions; Meer’s focus on Tymanther keeps her hidden and limits contact.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Meer may view Akanûl as a threat if genasi expand near southern Tymanther.
Meer may attack Chessentan forces nearing southern Tymanther, mistaking them for threats.
Meer’s territorial instincts make Akanûl a potential rival if it encroaches on her domain, and could draw Chessenta into conflict if its armies approach her domain, complicating the civil war. Her covert nature delays conflict, but Akanûl and Chessenta’s ignorance leave them vulnerable.
Mulhorand and Unther
--Historical Context:
Divine Rivalries: Mulhorand and Unther’s gods have oscillated between alliance and enmity for millennia.
Pre-Spellplague Conflict: Abefore the Spellplague, and after the death of the first incarnation of Gilgeam, Mulhorand conquered Unther occupying it for at least a decade, which modern Untherans likely resent.
Modern Dynamics: Mulhorand’s new God-Kings anti-slavery reforms clash with Unther’s slavery-dependent economy under the new incarnation of Gilgeam.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Relations are likely strained. Mulhorand’s anti-slavery stance clashes with Unther’s culture, and historical occupation fuels Untheran resentment.
Both nations are focused on internal rebuilding, limiting direct conflict, but border tensions or diplomatic standoffs are plausible.
Mulhorand and Tymanther
--Historical Context:
No direct relations between Mulhorand and Tymanther, due to Tymanther rising after Mulhorand's undoing in the Spellplague.
Tymanther’s Worldview: Dragonborn distrust powerful beings ruling over mortals, a legacy of their enslavement in Abeir, which could make them wary of Mulhorand’s God-Kings.
High Imaskar Fallout: Tymanther’s past alliance with High Imaskar may make some Mulhorandi nobles suspicious of dragonborn motives, despite the dragonborn refusal to aid the Imaskari during the rebellion.
Mulhorand’s Reforms: The God-Kings’ abolition of slavery aligns with Tymanther’s values.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Both nations need trade partners: Tymanther due to Chessenta’s fragmentation, Mulhorand due to rebuilding needs.
The God-Kings’ rebuilding focus overrides noble distrust, fostering cautious but economically driven trade with Tymanther.
Tymanther, needing partners post-Chessenta’s collapse, engages pragmatically despite wariness of divine rulers.
The dragonborn’s mistrust of divine rulers may slow diplomatic progress, but mutual economic needs foster cooperation, with a potential for better relations in the future.
Mulhorand and High Imaskar
--Historical Context:
Conquest and Rebellion: High Imaskar ruled Mulhorand post-Spellplague until Mulhorandi rebels, backed by their returning God-Kings, destroyed it in 1487 DR.
Legacy: Mulhorand’s victory cemented its anti-Imaskari stance, with nobles particularly mistrustful to High Imaskar’s former allies (Tymanther, Akanûl).
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
High Imaskar is gone, but its scattered nobles may stir trouble in Mulhorand, possibly as spies or insurgents. Mulhorand’s rebuilding efforts are partly to erase Imaskari influence.
The God-Kings’ pragmatic outreach to Tymanther and Akanûl contrasts with noble distrust, creating internal Mulhorandi tension.
Mulhorand and Okoth
--Historical Context:
Okoth’s Lake of Salt lies within Mulhorand’s borders, but its secrecy avoids detection.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Okoth’s yuan-ti infiltrate Mulhorand, undermining God-Kings to weaken their rule.Mulhorand is unaware but vulnerable to sabotage.
Okoth targets Mulhorand to erode a powerful neighbor, exploiting its rebuilding phase to sow discord covertly.
Mulhorand and Glolmarra
--Historical Context:
No recorded interactions; Glolmarra’s subterranean plots are hidden.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Glolmarra’s minions raid Mulhorand’s borders, enslaving humans.
Mulhorand’s rebuilding efforts hamper resistance.
Explanation: Glolmarra’s enslavement agenda disrupts Mulhorand’s recovery, but beholder infighting limits large-scale threats. Mulhorand's military may repel attacks but struggles with Glolmarra’s unpredictability.
Mulhorand and Abolethic Sovereignty
--Historical Context:
Limited direct attacks; Xxiphu focuses on Akanûl.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Mulhorand may fear Xxiphu’s potential strikes, especially near coastal trade routes. The Sovereignty’s alien motives alarm the God-Kings.
Mulhorand and Meirytraukkrul (Meer)
--Historical Context:
No known interactions; Meer’s focus on Tymanther avoids Mulhorand.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Meer may view Mulhorand as a threat if it expands near southern Tymanther, complicating regional dynamics.
Tymanther and Unther
--Historical Context:
Tymanther's Founding: The Spellplague brought dragonborn cities from Abeir into Unther, undoing most of this nation and sending the remaining to that other world. The surviving dragonborn founded their new nation, Tymanther, over the former territories of Unther.
Unther’s Return (Second Sundering): Unther’s reappearance stripped Tymanther of its northern territories (north of the Smoking Mountains), claimed by Gilgeam and his demon army.
Tymanther-Unther War (1486–1487 DR): A devil army’s unasked intervention halted Gilgeam’s invasion of southern Tymanther (the devils hate demons, so they intervened because of that). The conflict settled into a cold war, with skirmishes along the borders (Djerad Thymar to Unthalass and the Alamber Sea).
Unther’s Focus: Gilgeam prioritizes rebuilding Unthalass and northern territories, reducing pressure on Tymanther, for now.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Cold War (post-1487 DR): The cold war persists, with occasional border clashes but no full-scale invasion. The dragon turtle Vivesh-Nannari protects Tymanther's shores and port settlements from naval attacks. Tymanther bolsters defenses around Djerad Thymar and the Greenfields.
Unther’s internal consolidation and demonic alliances keep Gilgeam occupied, but his ambition makes peace unlikely.
Tymanther seeks allies (e.g., Akanûl, Mulhorand) to counter Unther’s threat.
Many Untheri slaves and soldiers have deserted Unther, in search of a better life elsewhere. Some have joined the dragonborn clans of Tymanthers.
Tymanther and High Imaskar
--Historical Context:
Early Alliance: Tymanther and High Imaskar shared strong ties due to anti-slavery policies, with trade and mutual defense agreements.
1479 DR Betrayal: High Imaskar’s abandonment of Tymanther during the Tchazzar crisis shattered trust.
1486 DR Collapse: Tymanther’s refusal to aid High Imaskar against Mulhorand sealed its destruction, reflecting dragonborn disillusionment.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
High Imaskar’s fall leaves no formal relations, but Tymanther may host exiled Imaskari nobles or face their schemes. The betrayal lingers in dragonborn memory, hardening their stance against unreliable allies.
This history fuels Mulhorandi nobles distrust of Tymanther, though the God-Kings prioritize trade over grudges.
Tymanther and Okoth
--Historical Context:
Okoth’s secrecy prevents historical contact.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Okoth’s yuan-ti may infiltrate Tymanther, inciting unrest to weaken it against Unther.
Tymanther is unaware but vulnerable to sabotage.
Okoth targets Tymanther to destabilize a strong rival, exploiting its focus on Unther to sow internal discord.
Tymanther and Glolmarra
--Historical Context:
No recorded interactions; Glolmarra’s subterranean plots are hidden.
Now:
Glolmarra’s minions raid Tymanther, targeting dragonborn for enslavement.
Tymanther’s military may repel attacks but struggles with Glolmarra’s unpredictability. Beholder disunity limits large-scale threats.
Tymanther and Abolethic Sovereignty
--Historical Context:
No recorded interactions; Xxiphu focuses on Akanûl, but threatens all coastal nations.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
The Sovereignty’s alien motives make it a wildcard threat. Tymanther fears Xxiphu’s potential attacks, bolstering coastal defenses.
Tymanther’s proximity to the Sea of Fallen Stars puts it at risk, but the Sovereignty’s focus on Akanûl delays direct conflict. The Sovereignty’s unpredictability keeps Tymanther vigilant.
Tymanther and Meirytraukkrul (Meer)
--Historical Context:
Meer claims southern Tymanther as her domain, with a goal of eventual expasionism, unknown to the dragonborn.
Meer views dragonborn as subjects, using animals/vegetation to “protect” them.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Tymanther is unaware but may resist Meer’s control if discovered.
Meer’s divine claim over Tymanther creates a latent conflict. Her covert interventions (e.g., animal attacks) could be mistaken for natural phenomena, but discovery would spark dragonborn defiance.
Unther and High Imaskar
--Historical Context:
No direct interactions; High Imaskar’s fall predates Unther’s restoration.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Unther’s distrust of non-Mulani extends to High Imaskar’s remnants, but Imaskari exiles might find opportunities in Unther’s chaotic society.
Unther and Okoth
--Historical Context:
Okoth’s secrecy prevents historical contact.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Okoth’s yuan-ti may infiltrate Unther, inciting unrest to weaken it against Tymanther.
Unther is unaware of Okoth’s manipulation.
Okoth targets Unther to destabilize a strong rival, exploiting its focus on Tymanther to sow internal discord.
Unther and Glolmarra
--Historical Context:
No recorded interactions; Glolmarra’s subterranean nature limits contact.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Glolmarra’s minions may raid Unther, enslaving humans.
Glolmarra’s enslavement goals target Unther’s population, but its disunity limits success. Unther’s military may repel attacks but struggles with Glolmarra’s unpredictability.
Unther and Abolethic Sovereignty
--Historical Context:
Limited direct attacks; Xxiphu focuses on Akanûl.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Unther may fear Xxiphu’s potential strikes, especially near the Alamber Sea. The Sovereignty’s motives are a mystery, heightening Unther’s paranoia.
Unther’s coastal exposure makes it a potential target, but the Sovereignty’s focus on Akanûl delays conflict. Gilgeam’s ambition may provoke a response if he challenges Xxiphu.
Unther and Meirytraukkrul (Meer)
--Historical Context:
No known interactions; Meer’s focus on Tymanther avoids Unther.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Meer’s territorial defense could target Unther’s expansion, escalating the Tymanther-Unther conflict. Unther’s ignorance leaves it unprepared.
High Imaskar and Okoth
--Historical Context:
No recorded interactions; High Imaskar’s fall predates Okoth’s modern schemes.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Okoth may view Imaskari as tools to manipulate surface politics, exiled Imaskari may align with Okoth’s yuan-ti, seeking to undermine Mulhorand.
High Imaskar and Glolmarra
--Historical Context:
No recorded interactions; High Imaskar’s fall predates Glolmarra’s modern schemes.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Glolmarra may target Imaskari exiles, seeing them as threats to beholder dominance, but Imaskari magical prowess could challenge beholder minions, sparking subterranean conflicts.
High Imaskar and Abolethic Sovereignty
--Historical Context:
High Imaskar allied with Akanûl, a Sovereignty target, but fell before modern conflicts.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
The Sovereignty’s interest in Spellplague-related magic makes Imaskari exiles potential targets, escalating tensions with their hosts (e.g., Akanûl).
High Imaskar and Meirytraukkrul (Meer)
--Historical Context:
No interactions; High Imaskar’s fall predates Meer’s modern schemes.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Meer may attack Imaskari exiles in southern Tymanther, seeing them as intruders, complicating their schemes in Tymanther.
Okoth and Glolmarra
--Historical Context:
No recorded interactions; both operate covertly in different domains.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Okoth’s yuan-ti and Glolmarra’s minions may clash underground, competing for influence. Both factions distrust each other’s motives, escalating subterranean wars.
Okoth and Abolethic Sovereignty
--Historical Context:
Okoth’s secrecy prevents historical contact.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
The Sovereignty’s alien goals threaten Okoth’s long-term plans, while Okoth’s hidden ruins attract Xxiphu’s interest, setting the stage for future conflict.
Okoth and Meirytraukkrul (Meer)
--Historical Context:
Okoth’s secrecy prevents historical contact.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Meer’s divine powers threaten Okoth’s covert operations, while Okoth’s infiltrations risk provoking her territorial wrath, leading to potential clashes.
Glolmarra and Abolethic Sovereignty
--Historical Context:
Glolmarra's secrecy prevents historical contact.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Glolmarra’s chaotic nature makes it vulnerable to the Sovereignty’s Symphony of Madness, while beholder paranoia drives preemptive attacks on Xxiphu’s agents, escalating tensions.
Glolmarra and Meirytraukkrul (Meer)
--Historical Context:
Glolmarra's secrecy prevents historical contact.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Meer’s territorial defense may clash with Glolmarra’s surface ambitions, sparking conflicts as beholder minions encounter her animal forces.
Abolethic Sovereignty and Meirytraukkrul (Meer)
--Historical Context:
No known interactions; Xxiphu’s focus on Akanûl avoids Tymanther.
--Current Status (Extrapolation):
Meer’s territorial instincts could provoke Xxiphu, while the Sovereignty’s interest in powerful entities makes her a target for corruption or elimination.
Campaign Ideas
-Akanûl as a Diplomatic Hub: Players could be emissaries in Airspur, navigating Chessenta’s civil war, Unther’s hostility, and Xxiphu’s attacks to secure trade deals with Mulhorand.
-Tymanther’s Border Tensions: PCs defend Tymanther from Untheran raids, Glolmarra’s minions, or Meer’s animal attacks, uncovering a demonic plot or yuan-ti sabotage.
-Tymanther-Unther War: A campaign centered on Tymanther could involve defending against Untheran raids or uncovering a demonic plot to reignite war. The PCs may uncover Imaskari artifacts that could shift the balance.
-Chessenta’s Civil War: PCs might align with a city-state (e.g., Luthcheq or Erebos), influencing the war’s outcome, the other nations alliances, and Okoth’s manipulations.
-Mulhorand’s Rebirth: Players could explore Mulhorand’s rebuilding, mediating between God-Kings and wary dragonborn or thwarting Untheran spies.
-Exiled Imaskari Intrigue: PCs could encounter a High Imaskari noble in Akanûl or Tymanther, plotting to restore their nation or destabilize Mulhorand, entangled with Okoth’s yuan-ti or Glolmarra’s minions.
-Mulhorandi Tensions: PCs might mediate between Mulhorand’s God-Kings and nobles suspicious of Tymanther and Akanûl, preventing a diplomatic crisis sparked by Imaskari exiles or yuan-ti.
-Chessenta’s Grudge: PCs in Luthcheq might face anti-Imaskari zealots targeting Akanûl’s genasi or friendly Chessentan nobles, forcing them to broker peace or escalate the civil war amid Okoth’s schemes.
Tymanther’s Defiance: PCs uncover Imaskari artifacts in Tymanther that could shift the Unther war, facing Meer’s wrath or Xxiphu’s interference.
Unther's Liberation: PCs join anti-slavery rebels in Unther, starting a revolution to unseat or even kill Gilgeam, while dealing with Imaskari or Okoth's schemes.
Okoth’s Shadow War: PCs discover Okoth’s yuan-ti manipulating Chessenta’s civil war or Unther’s aggression, racing to expose the sarrukh before they destabilize the region.
Glolmarra’s Chaos: PCs infiltrate Glolmarra’s subterranean lairs to stop beholder raids, only to trigger infighting that threatens surface cities.
Abolethic Sovereignty’s Madness: PCs investigate Xxiphu’s attacks on Akanûl, uncovering a Symphony of Madness plot to corrupt regional leaders, facing kuo-toa and Far Realm horrors.
Meer’s Divine Wrath: PCs in southern Tymanther face animal/vegetation attacks, discovering Meer’s claim and choosing to ally with or oppose her against Unther or Xxiphu.
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 30 Dec 2024 : 14:01:30
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
If i'm right about my theories, then the yuan-ti in Kara Tur are a prototype version of the modern yuan-ti (different breeding models and outcomes).
Their origin is abyssal in nature and the sarrukh of Okoth went planewalking for a time.
So having cobra dragons as Okothian experiments makes sense. They should have mostly died out as the climate of Unther changed. Any cobra dragons left should be much more desert like in nature after 30,000 years of magical evolution.
Climate affecting and killing off magical creatures that can literally endure someone sticking a burning torch directly on their skin isn't something I'd push. The way things work in our world doesn't necessarily reflect the way they should in FR because of magic. That being said, part of why I noted so many undead ones is that I picture there being very few living ones left in the region (but having at least one still living and of breeding age proves useful... more at end of this).
That being said, your other statements (that you figured them for malatra)... yep, totally agree. Its apparent from the original article that they were absolutely intending these to be in the Kara-tur region, but they thematically fit a few other areas (i.e. anywhere with a focus on snakes, jungles, or in theory very dry/hot places as well like deserts, volcanic areas, etc....).
On the yuan-ti of Kara-tur being different from those of Faerun.... I can definitely buy that someone found the sarrukh rituals ... or that the sarrukh modified the rituals of someone else. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say that Set's "weresnakes" might have been a modification of such (noting, I know they were called weresnakes, but I don't believe they were able to pass the disease like a lyncanthrope, so they were just shapechangers).
Since we're already talking about Snakes, Unther, and Mulhorand.... Dragon #313 article is worth a look "Elder Serpents of Set" starting on page 84 by Thomas Costa. To note, this is for ALL snakes (tiny, huge, flying, etc..). It might be a better fit for giant snakes in the area than just "giant snakes". They are conferred a measure of human level or better intelligence and can speak. They become "magical beasts" as opposed to animals (making them harder to control). Their skin thickens, they gain a hit die, and their hit die become d10's. They can use an ability to command lesser serpents, and they can speak with serpents (parseltongue  ). They have blindsense. The article presents these snakes as even possessing class levels of cleric, etc.... (if I were doing 3.5 rules, I'd love a multiclassed wizard(necromancer)/archivist/mystic theurge/true necromancer to give arcane and divine magic, but with a focus on them having to FIND their divine spells to learn them ... fits with Set's role of Evil Magic)
These elder serpents of Set were found throughout Faerun as Set worked against Sseth in the years leading up to the spellplague. They formed an "Order of the Grand Snakemaster" that was working together to spread Set's influence sneakily across Faerun (in whatever name/alias he chose to present himself locally). This order was only 67 members strong per the article, mostly elder serpents.
https://www.realmshelps.net/faerun/organizations/snakemaster.shtml
They used the portal network of the winding serpent (from James Wyatt's perilous gateways web article). Ssisthlerine, The Forked Tongue of Varae, was the current Grand Snakemaster per the article (and a 10th level cleric). She is noted as being the chief vizier of the dark naga Ebarnaje (and several of his predecessors) in the Serpent Hills. Vasrass is noted as a member working against Mulhorand in the Plains of purple dust, and one of its most effective assassins killing Mulhorandi priests. Statistics are provided in the article. The second in command of the Order is Circelice, who is also in the Raurin and roams Imaskari ruins (also a cleric, but I'd change it to the later developed Archivist). Supposedly, the leader of this group gained some intrinsic power, such that when they shed their skin it would have some special effects if eaten. Personally, I prefer some ability related to using snake skin to create scrolls and/or spellbooks (especially given the "skins of the world serpent"), and have her using her own skin as both archivist and wizard to create powerful books of magic.
I would also find it interesting if there were "half-dragon" versions of these "Elder Serpents"... in other words cobra dragons may have bred with giant snakes in the century since Set elevated the Elder Serpents. This might be a good way to produce some lesser opposition, given them a full snake body (no foreclaws), but possibly wings. So, essentially "giant winged snakes that can talk". In the doing of this, it would be in my view that the Elder Serpents were wanting this, and they would be acquiring the offspring for the greater glory of Set. I could definitely see Ssisthlerine producing these offspring by meeting with a cobra dragon herself and placing her offspring in places of power over the last century. However, in my view, if your interest is in developing Unther, then developing the 2nd in command who only got a one line sentence, but was in the Raurin works best.
Circelice (female, elder serpent Huge viper cleric 5 NE) who spends her time wandering through Imaskari ruins across Raurin, the Dust Desert.
So, I'd probably modify Circelice for 3.5 be a wizard 3/archivist3/mystic theurge X based on needs. But I know your developing 5e rules, and those rules aren't as rigorous for developing unique monsters. Having her controlling breeding with a cobra dragon to produce winged snakes that may have viper or cobra characteristics, but more often wings than not, seems like a fun thing. Also having her interested in finding/using magic to alter her offspring also seems like a good idea. So, in essence, she may be interested in not just Imaskari, but also Sarrukh, magics. However, she may be worried about making the Sarrukh aware of her, since they're likely to want to simply control her. It could also be that she resorted to undeath to survive the last hundred years (the Grand Snakemaster is noted as possibly immortal, but not the second in command... but who exactly is STILL the Grand Snakemaster may have changed in a hundred years ... or exactly how long a huge viper lives, or if Set was less discriminating on handing out immortality, possibly using his own blood to confer it in a ritual). Preferably she is still living though, to keep producing offspring. It could be fun if she's using her own shed skin as discussed above (or the shed skin of a cobra dragon may be magical as well). Perhaps even, she has discovered the methods that the manifestations of the Mulhorandi gods would use to make the godkings that served them (i.e. creating incarnations from humans of certain bloodlines), possibly even finding the "body" of Set in some temple in the desert and using blood from it to enhance herself in a similar way.
What happened to this organization when Set disappeared... did Sseth wake up and provide spells, but the organization worked under its own guidance.. until Set returned recently, and now SOMETHING is happening? To note, I previously metioned the Citadel of Black Ash as being Gilgeamties... but for a while Set was masquerading as Gilgeam and providing their spells before they died. Which... that opens up yet another theory for "who is it that is REALLY the Son of Victory that returned in Gilgeam's name". I may actually like the idea of it being Set wearing' Gilgeam's godflesh more than it being Bane aftering thinking through some of this. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 30 Dec 2024 : 03:25:16
Now that you guys mention yuan-ti and that stuff, I had completely forgotten that Chris Sims and the people of the LFR program had added this bit of lore about dragonborn specially reviling Sseth. This was before Richard Lee Byers and Erin Evans took the place and stablished their lore, so they ignored that bit, but I think it can be rescued. And if they revile Sseth and its cult, it means perhaps the dragonborn have had problems with the snakey folk down there.
And yes, I had also thought about Okoth, and how they may be influencing the developments in the Old Empires. How much they would allow big nations like Mulhorand develop, is something that I'm still figuring out. Though, in my headcanon, Okoth is mostly occupied with dealing with Glalmorra right now (the beholder empire Ed mentioned in the video), and so have less time to be masterminding stuff from the shadows. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 29 Dec 2024 : 21:09:42
If i'm right about my theories, then the yuan-ti in Kara Tur are a prototype version of the modern yuan-ti (different breeding models and outcomes).
Their origin is abyssal in nature and the sarrukh of Okoth went planewalking for a time.
So having cobra dragons as Okothian experiments makes sense. They should have mostly died out as the climate of Unther changed. Any cobra dragons left should be much more desert like in nature after 30,000 years of magical evolution. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 29 Dec 2024 : 20:55:15
You know, after researching cobra dragons for a few minutes, I really think they'd be a great addition to the Unther/Mulhorand/Raurin/Murghom/shining south region (as well as Zakhara... which might not deem them to be "dragons" since they are effectively giant winged snakes that happen to have front claws and a breath weapon). I could see them involved with the cult of Set, with the cult of the dragon, with the cult of Tiamat, etc... It could be an interesting article to put 8 or 10 of these spread throughout the region, with some being undead.
Maybe a vampiric one in the Black Ash Plain that converted Jaxanaedegor of Mount Thulbane (who serves Alasklerbanbastos the dracolich .... maybe somehow the dracolich managed to twist the bonds of vampire master and vampire spawn... not freeing Jaxanaedegor but rather forcing itself to be viewed as its master). This might be a source of enmity between Alasklerbanbastos and this cobra dragon, but the cobra dragon dare not act against the dracolich for fear of being destroyed itself.
Possibly serving the cult of Set, a mummified cobra dragon (and thus immune to fire, most mummies worst fear... and the powers of a mummy lord, plus extra) who guards the former home of the manifestation of Set in the Raurin desert (i.e. before he like the other Mulan gods were allowed to leave the prime material plane and return to the outer planes). Maybe after the god went silent due to the spellplague, it took over as "the manifestation of the god".
A ghost cobra dragon tied to the Okothian civilization who has been forced to guard some special, but long lost, ruins for millenia (or alternatively, who was changed into a ghostly guardian of the Imaskari lost city of Metos in the Methwood, and is the reason noone has returned from trying to find it).
A dracolich cobra dragon, converted by the cult of the dragon and serving Alasklerbanbastos, who possibly hates the vampiric one in the black ash plains for some slight... such as refusing to turn him into a vampire and forcing him to turn to the cult of the dragon... and quite possibly being the person who then convinced Alasklerbanbastos into "acquiring control of" Jaxanaedegor.
That right there is easily 4 undead varieties with interesting stories. Some living ones
A cobra dragon that serves the cult of Tiamat and spies on the Citadel of Black Ash, where once Gilgeam's worshippers fled to after their god died in a fight with Tiamat. Set began answering their prayers as Gilgeam. His followers were then killed in a volcanic eruption, but lived on as undead. With the return of Gilgeam, perhaps these undead are in motion again, and this cobra dragon seeks to gain favor with Tiamat's clergy (and possibly acquire the citadel, which was formerly a brown dragon's lair as well).
A cobra dragon that sets itself up in the ruins of one of the first dwarven settlements on Toril, which exists beneath the country of Semphar. It uses the underdark to make hit and run attacks against the surface world.
Breeding age cobra dragons in Okoth which are enslaved by the Sarrukh there seek their freedom, meanwhile the Sarrukh are using them to breed an army of young dragons to serve their own nefarious purposes.
|
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 29 Dec 2024 : 20:43:25
I think the Cobra Dragon is intended to be placed in Malatra, which has a yuan-ti presence already.
But dont let that restrict you. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 29 Dec 2024 : 16:48:44
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
I was aware of the tuuru, but not of the plesiosaurus. I don't know why I was under the impression that dinosaurs were a Chult exclusive thing.
One thing I want to develop (and is something that made me stop and repurpose my almost finished "Guide to Tymanther"), is the existence of the giant snakes Ed mentioned in his video about his original Unther. Perhaps as a game changer in the future of the region.
Hmmm, so possibly "prehistoric"/"dinosaur" giant snakes resembling the giant snake that Conan fought in the original Conan movie. I can definitely buy that given that there was a Sarrukh civilization nearby (i.e. in what becomes Thay and the first civilization in Okoth). The should be amazingly huge since you already have a yuan-ti, sarrukh, and weresnake presence (so snakes as big as humanoids).
Something like titanoboa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanoboa which reached a length of 50 feet long in our real world. Since they like heat, the black ash plains seems like a great place for them to live, where they might regularly hunt the giants and brown dragons found there (and vice versa)..... like living in the lush area around the river alamber and then heading into the black ash plains to hunt... then returning to the river to digest their meals. When dragonborn appear to their south, I could see them going down there to hunt as well, such that dragonborn might take up snake hunting as opposed to dragon hunting.
You know, I could see that being a staple food in the region, much like how people in Louisiana eat alligator made into sausage. Slabs of Snake Steak might be considered a delicacy, and giant snake egg omelets cooked by street side vendors could be another big fad.
Of course, Dragon #146, Dragon bestiary article page 22 mentions Cobra Dragons. It specifically places them in FR, in T'u Lung, and more numerous in lands "south and west"... not southwest.. but south and west. Unther is west and just a little north of T'u Lung. Cobra dragons breath fire, aren't affected by fire, and can breath out a huge black smoke cloud. DEFINITELY could see these hunting in the black ash plains, and perhaps so few people survive the encounters that they're relatively unknown. They could DEFINITELY be the creations of the Sarrukh experimenting with crossing red dragons and snakes. They were also adversely affected by cold, highly magic resistant and couldn't use spells like other dragons, and their bite had a venom effect that was nasty.
Cobra dragons live in caves and underground caverns in tropical and subtropical environments. They dislike swamps. In Kara-Tur (the Oriental Adventures lands of the FORGOTTEN REALMS™ setting), cobra dragons are found in the far southern reaches of the T’u Lung Empire, where they cause considerable grief and destruction. They are said to be even more numerous in other lands south and west of that empire.
some additional notes
Skull collecting is a favorite pastime of cobra dragons. Skulls of powerful monsters and rare creatures are highly prized. Favorite skulls include those of cave bears, dinosaurs, dragons, giants, and unicorns. Humanoid skulls are deemed interesting but of little value since they are so easily obtained. The offering of a rare skull as a gift when attempting to converse with a cobra dragon aids considerably in gaining the dragon’s favor.
<snip>
Common followers include bakemono, mono, gargoyles, lizard men, and mobats. These creatures live with the dragon and worship it as a god.
If there were some cobra dragons in the area, I could see there being conflict between them and the vayemniri just over the mere fact that its a dragon, it wants to be worshipped, and it might have something like kobolds/urds "winged kobolds" as worshippers. So, maybe one big ancient one that would hunt in the area, but with smaller offspring that are killed off periodically (to note, as a breed, they don't take a lot of care of their offspring). |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 29 Dec 2024 : 03:54:07
I was aware of the tuuru, but not of the plesiosaurus. I don't know why I was under the impression that dinosaurs were a Chult exclusive thing.
One thing I want to develop (and is something that made me stop and repurpose my almost finished "Guide to Tymanther"), is the existence of the giant snakes Ed mentioned in his video about his original Unther. Perhaps as a game changer in the future of the region. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 28 Dec 2024 : 13:46:43
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Kanjentellequor Abraxus is an odd-scaled, cheerful dragonborn whose demeanor soured only when I referred to him as an "strixiki," a term my dear friend and expert translator Lady Jalan Valos of Waterdeep said was the appropriate draconic word for their people. Apparently, in these parts, they prefer the term "Vayemniri," so to save me any future headaches I'm going with the Common term for them, dragonborn. Abraxus has been assigned to be my guide as I head to Djerad Thymar and a meeting with their “King,” Vanquisher Kallan. I might as well burn my old “Volo’s Guide to the Old Empires” as the book is one hundred years old and the information is completely outdated. If anything, Volo needs to write a new book about this region.
Tymanther is a land of great contrast. Marvelous cities are surrounded by the ruins of ancient, lost realms; fertile grasslands lay near arid plains, and are surrounded by great mountain ranges and the Alamber Sea. However, its culture is alien when compared with that of the rest of the Realms. Nowhere in my travels, not in the heart of the great dwarven halls of the Great Rift, nor the streets of Menzoberranzan, have I felt so much an outsider as in Tymanther.
Every kingdom of the Realms has its secret histories, but no land in Faerûn has its early years as undocumented as Tymanther. Until the latter part of the fifteenth century, the dragonborn were a quiet people, content to live alone in their ruin-filled lands, with only a few individuals who occasionally left their homeland to search for dragon lairs. These travelers did not offer any great insight into the customs of their people, beyond the fact that their culture favors military prowess and dragon hunting, and that they have a great sense of honor. It’s said that a dragonborn prefers to die rather than going against their given word.
We know that the original land of the dragonborn was “thrown unceremoniously into Unther like a boulder”, in the words of an anonymous Untheri scribe, who is said to have survived the dreaded Spellplague and saw the events first hand. The next thing we knew is that the dragonborn built a [redacted] pyramid so huge it can be seen from miles around, that makes dwarves open their eyes in awe every time they think about it, during the Wailing Years.
The historian Hyurkes of Luthcheq once wrote, "The dragonborn people have, throughout the last century, been perhaps the least-understood group in Faerûn. Yet, those who have taken the time to experience their culture have gained a greater appreciation for this noble and beautiful people." It should be noted that Hyurkes disappeared during his final expedition into the eastern lands of Tymanther, in the Year of the Ageless One (1479 DR), searching for some Abeiran ruins.
It was not until the so-called “Draconic Crisis” of the Year of the Ageless One that Tymanther became “known” outside of the Old Empires. Then, a couple of dragonborn helped in the defense of Suzail during the Shadovar siege of the Year of the Nether Mountain Scrolls (1486 DR), turning the attention of the common folk to this strange land of eastern Faerûn.
Compared to Cormyr, Tymanther can be seen as a "backward" land economically speaking. Most of the agriculture is grown by subsistence farmers, and their only official trading partner is the city of Luthcheq, in Chessenta. Banditry was never a big problem for the dragonborn, but rumors persists [sic] of gangs led by Tiamatans, smuggling rare drugs made of Abeiran flowers across the borders of Tymanther, but this has remained unproven to this day.
More troubling is their “cold war” with their erstwhile neighbors, the Untherans.Though recently defeated when their navy was destroyed by the titanic dragon turtle that lairs in the waters of the Alamber Sea, the agents of the mad god-king of Unther are said to lurk in the shadows, always trying to sow chaos in the rather orderly cities of the dragonborn...
— except from "A Pocket Guide to Tymanther", by the bard and professional adventurer Dorn Cormaeril, written under the auspices and generous patronage of Her Majesty the Queen Raedra Obarskyr of Cormyr, in the Year of the Warrior Princess, 1489 DR
Nicely done. Just throwing out some additional food for thought.
One thing I'd project further into a campaign in the area is the portion between Chessenta, Tymanther, and Unther that contains dinosaurs (i.e. some of the Riders to the Sky Mountains). We don't hear a lot about it in the books or anything, but it was there in the Old Empires. The Tuuru as a pteranodon like species is mentioned in Old Empires, but its also mentioned during the Spellplague with Dungeon #178 Backdrop:Chessenta. There it has Wilden riding the Tuuru. Old Empires places trolls, duergar, and yuirwood exiled half-drow in the region as well. Dungeon #178 specifically has marine trolls (scrags), domesticating pleisosaurs as mounts, so I'd probably recommend developing that civilization.
I personally like the idea of the Wilden appearing and pushing back the trolls, duergar, and half-drow, meanwhile, the maw of the godswallower maybe further drives these groups out of other portions region that they would have inhabited. Perhaps the trolls BECAME the scrag living in the methmere because their village was destroyed (a whole story could be developed of them beseeching a power to transform them from one type of troll into another so that they can live in the water, or enacting some secret ritual, etc... or just breeding with a small group of existing scrags).
On the wilden, even further... the Methwood was inhabited by elves. It was known that some portion of these elves had developed into the Eldreth Veluuthra (xenophobic elven racists) who hunted anyone coming into their woodlands. The article in Dungeon #178 mentions "fey" being in the Methwood, which could be the elves to make things simplest... but it could ALSO be Wilden. It might be interesting to develop this Wilden population as even more insular than the dragonborn, but also EXTREMELY protective of their territory. It could also be interesting to put mammoths and sabretooth tigers in the methwood to put a feral prehistoric vibe even more in the region, |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 28 Dec 2024 : 07:29:17
Kanjentellequor Abraxus is an odd-scaled, cheerful dragonborn whose demeanor soured only when I referred to him as an "strixiki," a term my dear friend and expert translator Lady Jalan Valos of Waterdeep said was the appropriate draconic word for their people. Apparently, in these parts, they prefer the term "Vayemniri," so to save me any future headaches I'm going with the Common term for them, dragonborn. Abraxus has been assigned to be my guide as I head to Djerad Thymar and a meeting with their “King,” Vanquisher Kallan. I might as well burn my old “Volo’s Guide to the Old Empires” as the book is one hundred years old and the information is completely outdated. If anything, Volo needs to write a new book about this region.
Tymanther is a land of great contrast. Marvelous cities are surrounded by the ruins of ancient, lost realms; fertile grasslands lay near arid plains, and are surrounded by great mountain ranges and the Alamber Sea. However, its culture is alien when compared with that of the rest of the Realms. Nowhere in my travels, not in the heart of the great dwarven halls of the Great Rift, nor the streets of Menzoberranzan, have I felt so much an outsider as in Tymanther.
Every kingdom of the Realms has its secret histories, but no land in Faerûn has its early years as undocumented as Tymanther. Until the latter part of the fifteenth century, the dragonborn were a quiet people, content to live alone in their ruin-filled lands, with only a few individuals who occasionally left their homeland to search for dragon lairs. These travelers did not offer any great insight into the customs of their people, beyond the fact that their culture favors military prowess and dragon hunting, and that they have a great sense of honor. It’s said that a dragonborn prefers to die rather than going against their given word.
We know that the original land of the dragonborn was “thrown unceremoniously into Unther like a boulder”, in the words of an anonymous Untheri scribe, who is said to have survived the dreaded Spellplague and saw the events first hand. The next thing we knew is that the dragonborn built a [redacted] pyramid so huge it can be seen from miles around, that makes dwarves open their eyes in awe every time they think about it, during the Wailing Years.
The historian Hyurkes of Luthcheq once wrote, "The dragonborn people have, throughout the last century, been perhaps the least-understood group in Faerûn. Yet, those who have taken the time to experience their culture have gained a greater appreciation for this noble and beautiful people." It should be noted that Hyurkes disappeared during his final expedition into the eastern lands of Tymanther, in the Year of the Ageless One (1479 DR), searching for some Abeiran ruins.
It was not until the so-called “Draconic Crisis” of the Year of the Ageless One that Tymanther became “known” outside of the Old Empires. Then, a couple of dragonborn helped in the defense of Suzail during the Shadovar siege of the Year of the Nether Mountain Scrolls (1486 DR), turning the attention of the common folk to this strange land of eastern Faerûn.
Compared to Cormyr, Tymanther can be seen as a "backward" land economically speaking. Most of the agriculture is grown by subsistence farmers, and their only official trading partner is the city of Luthcheq, in Chessenta. Banditry was never a big problem for the dragonborn, but rumors persists [sic] of gangs led by Tiamatans, smuggling rare drugs made of Abeiran flowers across the borders of Tymanther, but this has remained unproven to this day.
More troubling is their “cold war” with their erstwhile neighbors, the Untherans.Though recently defeated when their navy was destroyed by the titanic dragon turtle that lairs in the waters of the Alamber Sea, the agents of the mad god-king of Unther are said to lurk in the shadows, always trying to sow chaos in the rather orderly cities of the dragonborn...
— except from "A Pocket Guide to Tymanther", by the bard and professional adventurer Dorn Cormaeril, written under the auspices and generous patronage of Her Majesty the Queen Raedra Obarskyr of Cormyr, in the Year of the Warrior Princess, 1489 DR |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 06 Dec 2024 : 20:48:27
Oh, I was talking about individuals that go against the norms of their own societies (ie. the orthodox Tymantheran dragonborn are atheists and dragon haters by tradition, but there is an important minority of dragonborn who do worship gods, and don't mind, or even do like, dragons). But your points are valid. The jinaari dragonborn (from Acquisitions Incorporated) have a quite different culture than the Tymantheran vayemniri dragonborn. The jinaari have a royal family, something that would be appalling for an orthodox dragonborn of Tymanther. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 05 Dec 2024 : 23:52:19
That’s largely how I’ve introduced elements of Returned Abeir in my Realms. I actually liked the concept back in the days of 4e… and I’ve been steadily tinkering with my own home campaign Realmslore in order to make it fit how I think best. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 05 Dec 2024 : 14:10:42
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And given the amount of celestial, temporal? time that Abeir and Toril were separated… deviations between civilisations or cultures of Dragonborn resident on both worlds had plenty of temporal room to develop both independently and very, very differently.
Yeah, one of the things I've been noting is that the lands that come back to Toril should be a lot different.... and at the same time the lands that return to Abeir should find their neighbors very different. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 04 Dec 2024 : 23:28:25
And given the amount of celestial, temporal? time that Abeir and Toril were separated… deviations between civilisations or cultures of Dragonborn resident on both worlds had plenty of temporal room to develop both independently and very, very differently. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 04 Dec 2024 : 13:33:34
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Just a silly thing that came to my mind today...
On gods, dragons, and dragonborn
"A common thing many maunthreki—I mean, humans, tell me is "I didn't knew dragonborn worshiped gods". They are genuinely surprised to learn that. Those among them who are learned, instead say "I'm surprised to know dragonborn worship dragon gods! I thought you hated dragons." People tend to forget that societies aren't monolithic, and that individuals that go against the norms and trends of their societies aren't that rare. Humans do that all the time.
Their bewilderment is legitimate, however. As everyone knows, we vayemniri —or dragonborn, as you humans call us—, have a complex history with dragons, and our ancestors lived in a world were the gods didn't existed, literally —they had been barred from entering there by their own king (or whatever you call the being that oversees the gods. Ao did they call him?). The mere idea of powerful beings that ask you to venerate them in exchange for protection and wellbeing is very similar to what the tyrants of Abeir did to our ancestors under the steelsky.
So, the answer for this question is complex. Why some of us worship the gods, specially dragon gods? And why some of us believe that we are kin to dragons, even when dragons were the ones who enslaved our ancestors? Have we forgotten the ancient debt of blood? No, we haven't forgot. But the truth is that the dragons of this world have little to do with the dragons of Abeir. It would be unfair to kill someone who didn't do anything to you just because it comes from the same people that hurt your people. Both for our ancestors and for the dragons of this world, who did nothing to them.
There is also the little known fact that not every vayemniri hates dragons. Yes, the founders of our people were fanatics who rebelled against the tyrants who enslaved them, and their descendants still carry the hardcore beliefs of these ancient heroes. But even among these rebels, there were people that believed not all dragons were bad ones, only the tyrants that enslaved them. And there were other individuals that because indoctrination or bad circumstances, believed they were better under the dragon rules that fending for themselves in a world where wealth is the real tyrant. This is specially true among my kind in the faraway land of Laerakond.
And so, some of our ancestors suffered the bigotry and prejudice of their own peers, as for all that we vayemniri talk about how we like freedom and dislike tyrants and slaves, the sad truth as that Tymanther subject of the the Tyranny of Thoughts. We can only think what the traditions allow us to think, we can only believe what our ancestors believed, we can only marry who the clan elders choose for you, and so on. And our own clan elders have become the new tyrants that enslaved the common vayemniri, this time not with chains made of iron and steel, but with ones made of "traditions" and "duties". And those who rebel against these chains are exiled or even killed. Not so different from what the dragon tyrants did to the slaves that misbehaved.
And so we came to this world, and learned about freedom of thoughts, and that the gods existed, and that the good dragons also existed and were more common. And that the dragons also had gods, good and evil. And those of us that still believed that dragons were as any individuals, and that those in Abeir chose to be evil, but many here chose to be good, decided it was time to learn about the new world and its gods, and perhaps the truth behind our own origins..."
— except from a conversation between a human scholar and a dragonborn, compiled in "In Pursuit of Knowledge: The Travels of an Oghmanite", published by Tym Waterdeep Limited in association with the Fellowship of Innkeepers and the Fellowship of Carters and Coachmen, in the Year of the Narthex Murders, 1482 DR.
Love this Zero, as it fits perfectly my view of the PARTS OF ABEIR THAT CAME TO TORIL. Just like the people of Faerun know very little about what goes on in Kara-Tur, Zakhara, Maztica, "the land faerunian sages call Anchorome", "the land faerunian sages call Katashaka", etc.... the people of Abeir likely know very little about what happened on other continents. We have from Ed himself that the gods were worshipped in Abeir, but possibly not the gods that WE know of. We also have from Ed that magic worked in Abeir. I imagine that there were dragonborn in other areas of Abeir that would have had a society completely alien to the ideals of the Vayemniri, and there may have been portions of the world where dragonlords didn't hold sway. In short, "we have seen Abeir painted with a very broad brush, and we should consider that it should be as diverse in thought, tradition, and knowledge as Toril is". In another view, the "discovered history" that faerunian sages uncovered about estelar and dawn titans should be considered colored by lack of information and not fact. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 03 Dec 2024 : 20:22:04
Just a silly thing that came to my mind today...
On gods, dragons, and dragonborn
"A common thing many maunthreki—I mean, humans, tell me is "I didn't knew dragonborn worshiped gods". They are genuinely surprised to learn that. Those among them who are learned, instead say "I'm surprised to know dragonborn worship dragon gods! I thought you hated dragons." People tend to forget that societies aren't monolithic, and that individuals that go against the norms and trends of their societies aren't that rare. Humans do that all the time.
Their bewilderment is legitimate, however. As everyone knows, we vayemniri —or dragonborn, as you humans call us—, have a complex history with dragons, and our ancestors lived in a world were the gods didn't existed, literally —they had been barred from entering there by their own king (or whatever you call the being that oversees the gods. Ao did they call him?). The mere idea of powerful beings that ask you to venerate them in exchange for protection and wellbeing is very similar to what the tyrants of Abeir did to our ancestors under the steelsky.
So, the answer for this question is complex. Why some of us worship the gods, specially dragon gods? And why some of us believe that we are kin to dragons, even when dragons were the ones who enslaved our ancestors? Have we forgotten the ancient debt of blood? No, we haven't forgot. But the truth is that the dragons of this world have little to do with the dragons of Abeir. It would be unfair to kill someone who didn't do anything to you just because it comes from the same people that hurt your people. Both for our ancestors and for the dragons of this world, who did nothing to them.
There is also the little known fact that not every vayemniri hates dragons. Yes, the founders of our people were fanatics who rebelled against the tyrants who enslaved them, and their descendants still carry the hardcore beliefs of these ancient heroes. But even among these rebels, there were people that believed not all dragons were bad ones, only the tyrants that enslaved them. And there were other individuals that because indoctrination or bad circumstances, believed they were better under the dragon rules that fending for themselves in a world where wealth is the real tyrant. This is specially true among my kind in the faraway land of Laerakond.
And so, some of our ancestors suffered the bigotry and prejudice of their own peers, as for all that we vayemniri talk about how we like freedom and dislike tyrants and slaves, the sad truth as that Tymanther subject of the the Tyranny of Thoughts. We can only think what the traditions allow us to think, we can only believe what our ancestors believed, we can only marry who the clan elders choose for you, and so on. And our own clan elders have become the new tyrants that enslaved the common vayemniri, this time not with chains made of iron and steel, but with ones made of "traditions" and "duties". And those who rebel against these chains are exiled or even killed. Not so different from what the dragon tyrants did to the slaves that misbehaved.
And so we came to this world, and learned about freedom of thoughts, and that the gods existed, and that the good dragons also existed and were more common. And that the dragons also had gods, good and evil. And those of us that still believed that dragons were as any individuals, and that those in Abeir chose to be evil, but many here chose to be good, decided it was time to learn about the new world and its gods, and perhaps the truth behind our own origins..."
— except from a conversation between a human scholar and a dragonborn, compiled in "In Pursuit of Knowledge: The Travels of an Oghmanite", published by Tym Waterdeep Limited in association with the Fellowship of Innkeepers and the Fellowship of Carters and Coachmen, in the Year of the Narthex Murders, 1482 DR. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Jul 2024 : 19:14:22
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
I see. For what I understand, Erin's Inanna may be based on D&D Ishtar (who is also called Inanna in some sources, like Dragon mag #329), who is said to be a Chaotic Neutral deity.
So, we specifically AND canonically for the realms have those two individuals as NOT the same entity. By that, I mean that Ishtar is still worshipped in NAME in Unther. But its noted that "she left and turned over her power to Isis". So, at present, Isis is accepting her prayers. She, like Ramman, is noted as a "Babylonian" god who was accepted by the people of Unther whenever they lost so many of their gods in the orcgate wars. So, she came after the orcgate wars and got run off. She was a river goddess. This is why I like the story that for Ishtar that she was a prime material bound goddess... aka Eldath. It puts a nice bow on where Eldath came from. So, just like Hoar, we may have a handful of gods that fled Unther's pantheon when Gilgeam started to become a problem and changed their names in order to do it. In her instance, she may have given up her "name rights" to Isis to not screw over her worshippers, since I don't see Gilgeam as willing to take on the whole Mulhorandi Pantheon.
As an irony, many of the "Untheric" gods that died and that are noted as travelling on the ship of the gods with Enlil are in fact Babylonian "gods". Nergal, Marduk, Girru....Gilgamesh whom Gilgeam is modeled from.. these are all listed as Babylonian pantheon (that being said, Deities and Demigods does note that that sumerian and babylonian pantheons are a D&D created difference). So, its also kind of odd that the old empires references that the "Untheric" Pantheon imported Babylonian gods, because it had them already.... but at the same time, the list of those gods and their deaths were actually put in by a different author (i.e. I believe it came in Powers and Pantheons). The D&D Sumerian gods THAT WE KNOW OF who were part of the "Untheric Pantheon" were only Enlil, Inanna, Ki,Nanna-Sin, and Utu.... and we explicitly know that Enki didn't come over from powers and pantheons. That leaves Nin-Hursag as the one "Sumerian" pantheon goddess that's unclear if she came or not (an earth goddess with control of gravity, magnetism, and flight per D&D lore, but actual mythology focuses on her as a nurturing/fertility/mother goddess and wife/consort of Enki OR sometimes wife of Enlil).
Inanna is canonically claimed to have died in the orcgate wars, so in the realms, she is NOT Ishtar. I know in OUR world there's a lot of stuff that claims the two are the same on the web.... but generally the myths that I read... when I see stuff about Ishtar its more "kind" and when I see stuff about Inanna, she's typically portrayed as a B word.
By the way, this concept that the Untheric Pantheon started "taking in" Babylonian Pantheon gods... that's one thing where I like to personally think that we kind of have the story wrong. By that, I mean that there weren't TWO groups of deities that came over for the Mulan people. There were THREE OR MORE .... so maybe there was another group that followed Anu. This fits in well with the canon lore that Anu was worshipped down in Durpar from Desert of Desolation (which yes, was shoehorned into the realms... but take lemons, make lemonade). So, we may have had Anu, Ishtar, Ramman, Assuran, and maybe a few others (Anshar becoming Shar, Dahak becoming Null, Druaga as another name for possibly Gargauth). I ALSO wouldn't be surprised if many of these "gods" were ascended dragons and that's an even further hidden part of this story... as in the manifestations that they used were draconic bodies that they possessed like ToT Avatars... and I state that because so many instances of "dragon gods" seem to appear in THAT section of the realms. So, unlike the other mulan gods who "spelljammed" here in magically created (or possibly mortal grown) manifestation bodies, these gods may have come through via possessing draconic bodies.... which may have also been what "Primordials" did in having "dragon mounts". It might even be something where these "deities" were already existent in the realms, but trapped in Abeir, and their method of coming to their worshippers was via "crossing over" in the shared body of a dragon.... and maybe this was possible because there's some ties between the old empires land and Abeir from a prior crossover.
|
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 09 Jul 2024 : 04:52:37
I see. For what I understand, Erin's Inanna may be based on D&D Ishtar (who is also called Inanna in some sources, like Dragon mag #329), who is said to be a Chaotic Neutral deity. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 08 Jul 2024 : 22:34:44
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Is there any sourcebook depicting the D&D version of Inanna? I've only found her in 1e Deities and Demigods, and there is not much about her personality and her religion in that book, just her stats and battle tactics; and in On Hallowed Ground, and this book doesn't even talk about her, but about her domain and what the souls there fight between them...
To my knowledge... no. It does give her alignment though as Lawful Evil and her home to be in the nine hells. My judgment of her personality comes entirely from what I've read of her on the web based on the stories from their myths, and I'd agree with a lawful evil assessment. She's depicted as a power hungry and demanding goddess with a spiteful streak against anyone who crosses her. That being said, I'm no expert on that section of mythology either, having only really started haphazardly learning about it in the last 6 to 8 years. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 06 Jul 2024 : 06:04:00
Is there any sourcebook depicting the D&D version of Inanna? I've only found her in 1e Deities and Demigods, and there is not much about her personality and her religion in that book, just her stats and battle tactics; and in On Hallowed Ground, and this book doesn't even talk about her, but about her domain and what the souls there fight between them... |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 06 Jul 2024 : 03:12:32
hmmmm, yeah, not big on this variation of Inanna if they just focus on her as a love goddess. When I read the things about her, Inanna is a royal b-word, who is lawful evil, expects everyone to do what she wants them to do, uses her "womanly wiles" to seduce men to get what she wants, but then also orders people about like she's a queen, and is also a war goddess. So, reducing her to just another Bast or Sune etc.... not my cup of tea. Now Ishtar, she's been portrayed in D&D as more neutral to possibly good and more like other love gods. Since in real world myth Inanna and Ishtar are often confused, but in realms they are two distinct entities, I'd prefer to keep them different like this. Inanna should more closely resemble Loviatar (which oddly, we see Loviatar PLAYING the role of Inanna in the short story in Complete Book of Necromancers). |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 04 Jul 2024 : 22:21:01
So, ok, I rewatched the relevant part of the video. The Inanna thing starts at 3:44:00/3:45:00 mark. But, there is a lot of context from the rest of the video that you need to understand what's happening, so I'm going to try to summarize here as best as a I can.
The leaders of the dragonborn clan Kanjentellequor seems to have been investigating the god-tombs of the old Untheric gods on their own, without nobody (not even the other members of the clan or the dragonborn government) knowing what they were doing. They have already found Nanna-Sin's tomb (that they rebuilt as Djerad Thymar), Marduk and Tiamat's tombs (that they found empty, logically), and Utu and Inanna's tombs. Utu's body is protected by a wall of fire and the dragonborn were unable to get closer to him. The dragonborn have the tomb heavily guarded, however.
The tomb of Inanna was different, as the body of Inanna was not as protected as Utu's. Her tomb is located below the place where the dragonborn built one of the pyramids of Djerad Kethendi, btw. (specifically, her tomb-room is connected to a section of the catacombs that's were the clanless (thrikominaki) dragonborn are interred).
The patriarch of clan Kanjentellequor, Baishir, and his two sons, tried to resurrect Inanna with a spell that could have controlled her as well (I guess, to try to gain more power?), because nothing could "possa-bly" go wrong, right? Well, things went wrong and they were unable to correctly resurrect her, and all of Inanna's consciousness and divinity were transferred to a cat (lol). Cat-Inanna wasn't happy with all this stuff, and used her powers (however diminished) to influence Baishir's oldest son, Lahar (Bahar? Mahar?) and made his passions go wild, and in this state he killed his father and his younger brother (and a dragonborn female who was helping them), and the cat uses this opportunity to flee and gets lost in Djerad Kethendi, despite Lahar's best efforts to locate it.
Then we are on Ash Day (no date for the day given) of 1496 DR, a year or so after the dragonborn killed Gilgeam. Ash Day is the day that dragonborn celebrate their independence from the dragon lords of Abeir and make their marriage contracts with a big festival. A group of young dragonborn that were looking for their potential grooms/brides, by whims of fate found the cat and followed it to the tomb. There, they learn the truth of what happened, and Cat-Inanna chooses (as in, makes a Chosen) one of the young dragonborn, Verthisathurgiesh Hencin, to try to do what Enlil did with Dumuzi and return as a full goddess (Hencin influences her to become a female dragonborn goddess, the same way Dumuzi influenced Enlil into becoming a dragonborn warrior).
The youngs then go and tell it to the Adjudicators (Tymanther's equivalent to the War Wizards of Cormyr), that are like the police force of the dragonborn. Lahar is arrested and clan Kanjentellequor gets patriarch-less (Baishir is death and Lahar was the next on line for the patriach/matriarch seat, plus he killed his brother, leaving no one next in line).
As an aside, Inanna is not that happy that the dragonborn are worshiping Enlil, lol. Seems things between them ended badly before the Battle of the Gods.
So, in the political landscape of things, now three dragonborn clans have their "own personal" gods. Daardendrien has Bahamut/Marduk (as Medrash is basically in charge of the Platinum Cadre by the end of the Brotherhood of the Griffon novels, and I can see the dragonborn saying now that the Platinum Cadre and Bahamut's fate are "Daardendrien's"); Kepeshkmolik has Enlil (as Dumuzi is Kepeshkmolik), and now Verthisathurgiesh now has Inanna. And I'm sure they are going to use them as political tools in the future.
I guess that this can work even if we don't kill Gilgeam (that I don't see WotC doing that canonically), and the Kanjentellequor trying to revive and control Untheran gods makes more sense if they want to use them as weapons against Gilgeam. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 04 Jul 2024 : 19:51:24
I have to rewatch the whole thing, because yes, 4 hours is too much and between my bad hearing, my non-native English and horrible AI translated transcript, I have had problems to understand the whole thing (I'm not sure if the Kanjentellequor's Scion is Bahar, Lahar or Mahar, lol), but IIRC, Inanna appears around the 3:50 hour mark.
Anyways, the adventure ends with Hencin, one of the characters, being the potential chosen of Inanna, and clan Kanjentellequor being patriarch-less, lol |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 04 Jul 2024 : 01:32:46
Hmmm... I am interested, but I don't want to sit through 4 hours of this. What I wonder is how does she portray Inanna. From what I've seen, treatments of Inanna are very different. Any point I should fast forward to? |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 02 Jul 2024 : 06:37:43
A bit of update on this, but Erin Evans ran an special adventure set in Tymanther in 2020, known as the Qal Contracts Murder. Long story short, there is a series of murders in Djerad Kethendi just the same day the dragonborn are celebrating their Qal (marriage) contracts. There are some details about the city of Djerad Kethendi, and some stuff that affects the future of clan Kanjentellequor, but the stuff that I found most interesting is that:
1. Erin killed Gilgeam off-screen. Basically, the dragonborn behead him in some battle and that was all, lol. His followers fled to the ruins of Messemprar. The adventure takes place after this event.
2. By the end of the adventure, the players found the vestige of Inanna, and there is a hint that maybe Inanna would be fully revived and added to the "Tymantheran pantheon" (currently, just Bahamut, Enlil and Tiamat). - I think sleyvas would be interested in this, lol
For those interested, the game was recorded on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyC4csDIdRQ
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 30 May 2023 : 18:34:49
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
The new Ed video has unveiled a lot of info that will benefit my campaign. Glolmarra will definitely will be part of my campaign, as I always wondered what was located in the Underdark below the Old Empires. Also, weird like undeads and a super blue dragon!
https://youtu.be/fGDt-VLY1Ms
Thanks... so notes on the "super blue dragon"... name is Meirytraukkrul (Meer for short) and when the Untheric manifestation of Ki (goddess of Nature) lay dying during the orcgate wars, devoured the manifestation's torso. She gained the ability to basically phase through earth and see through it while doing so, summon a half dozen "monsters" every round to fight for her, regenerate 4d4 hit points a round. She also gains some bit of Ki's personality. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 22 May 2023 : 00:29:37
The new Ed video has unveiled a lot of info that will benefit my campaign. Glolmarra will definitely will be part of my campaign, as I always wondered what was located in the Underdark below the Old Empires. Also, weird like undeads and a super blue dragon!
https://youtu.be/fGDt-VLY1Ms |
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