| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Starshade |
Posted - 16 Jul 2020 : 18:31:47
I was dreaming recently of a Black Dragon breathing fire...
Thinking, did chromatic dragons ever have 2 weapons, or, was my dream just a bit creative? |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Barastir |
Posted - 20 Jul 2020 : 18:50:44
I think I read in a DragonLance source that all true dragons could spit fire, in addition to the breath weapon mentioned in their entries. I've ignored it, for two reasons. One, because there is but one source saying that. Second, because it puts the ones who originally have a fire breath to be in disadvantage before the other dragons. |
| see |
Posted - 19 Jul 2020 : 04:38:55
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Different descriptions have kind of changed around a little their breath weapons (lines, cones, clouds), and I know in at least Green Dragons' case, "chlorine gas" was changed to just "acid gas", but that's not really much of a difference.
Since I did the research on the main dragons' breath weapons through the editions for a post elsewhere just a week ago, I'll repost (and slightly expand it, to cover 4e) it here:
Back in 1974, when the first version of D&D was published, the six dragons included were the White with a cold cone, the Black with an acid line, the Green with a poison cloud, the Blue with a lightning line, the Red with a fire cone, and the Golden which could choose between the poison cloud and the fire cone. In the first supplement released for it (in 1976), the next four standard versions came out, the Brass with a sleep cone or fear cloud, the Copper with an acid line or slow spell effect, the Bronze with a lightning line or repulsion spell effect, and Silver with a cold cone and a cloud of paralyzing gas.
Come 1977, with the Monster Manual for what would later be called AD&D 1st Edition, those same ten dragons had those same breath weapons, though the Copper's slow and the Bronze's repulsion explicitly became clouds.
In the Holmes boxed set (also 1977), only the White, Black, Red, and Brass were covered, with the same types and shapes as in the Monster Manual.
In the "Dungeons & Dragons Basic Set" of 1980 (for what's now called the BX edition), the original six types from 1974 were reprinted with the same breath weapons.
In the next "Dungeons & Dragons Basic Set" in 1983 (for what's now called the BECMI edition), the original six types from 1974 were again reprinted with the same breath weapons.
Come the AD&D 2nd Edition Monstrous Compendium Volume 1 in 1989, all ten dragon types that were in the 1977 Monster Manual were included. The breath weapons changed in exactly one case; the Brass dragon replaced the fear cloud with a heat cloud.
For the D&D Rules Cyclopedia in 1991, which was very similar to BECMI, the original six types from 1974 were again reprinted with the same breath weapons.
Come what called itself D&D 3rd Edition in 2000, the new Monster Manual included the same standard ten types as were around in 1976, in the 1977 Monster Manual, and the 1989 Monstrous Compendium Volume 1. The Green dragon's breath weapon was changed from poison to a corrosive cone (since poison was eliminated as a damage type), the Brass traded the heat cloud for a line of fire, the Gold traded its poison breath for a cone of weakening gas, and all the other metallic dragons' clouds were changed into cones (apparently on the theory that it made more sense if it was originating from a mouth).
The D&D 3.5 Monster Manual in 2003 covered the same types as its 3rd edition version and gave them the same breath weapons.
The D&D 4th Edition Monster Manual in 2008 brought over the Black (still acid, now a "close blast", which resembles a cloud in shape), Blue (still lightning, now three specific targets), Green (back to poison, now a "close blast"), Red (still fire, now a "close blast"), White (still cold, now a "close blast"). The 2009 Monster Manual 2 brought in metallics with two roster changes; the Adamantine (thunder that knocks prone, "close blast"), Copper (acid that causes slow, now a "close blast"), Gold (fire that causes weakness, now a "close blast"), Iron (lightning that draws toward the dragon, "close blast"), and Silver (cold that causes vulnerability, now a "close blast").
We reach D&D 5th edition's Monster Manual (2014), and for the same ten types that existed back in 1976, it used the same types and shapes as 3rd edition used, except the Green's damage type was poison like was in 1974-1999 and 2008-on. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Jul 2020 : 19:41:33
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade
an 3.5 rule a dev once suggested for this, was the Half-Dragon; add a Half-Green to an black ,and you got a dragon with heritage in two types and two breath weapons.
I just can't see it happening. I mean, I can picture a dragon looking at a troll and going "MMMMmmmmm, I gots to have me a piece of that", but two dragons of different species mating  . Unheard of!!!
Message Brought to you by The Draconic Council of Keeping Racial Purity, except in the case of Oh-so-hot trolls
I never really got the 3.x thing of "hey, let's have dragons go all Zeus-like and mate with anything that moves!"
I mean, the PC-type half-dragons made sense: dragons often interact with intelligent humanoid races. But some of the others... No.
What I would have done, for those other critter-types, is take a page from the 3E dragonborn. Instead of everything thing being a half-dragon, make it where a dragon could select a suitable critter, enact some ritual, and by that ritual give the critter some draconic traits.
So instead of the backstory being "this dragon once got it on with a troll, so it's a half-dragon troll," the backstory would be "this dragon wanted a troll guardian, so he used this 'Draconic Blessing' ritual that involved some of the dragon's own blood, and now it has a dragon-infused troll as a guardian." Same basic thing -- don't even need to change the stats! -- but not as ridiculous a backstory.
But.. But... But... its a troll... they're eternal virgins because they regenerate every time! Every time feels like the first time! I mean, you DO have to pick them up by their feet first and dunk them in a barrel of perfume just so you don't vomit, and their skin feels like rubber, and you have to muzzle them and cover their claws, but... 
But seriously, yeah, what you say is so true. That would make much more sense than some dragon that just liked to mate with goblins for some unknown reason. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Jul 2020 : 18:15:36
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade
an 3.5 rule a dev once suggested for this, was the Half-Dragon; add a Half-Green to an black ,and you got a dragon with heritage in two types and two breath weapons.
I just can't see it happening. I mean, I can picture a dragon looking at a troll and going "MMMMmmmmm, I gots to have me a piece of that", but two dragons of different species mating . Unheard of!!!
Message Brought to you by The Draconic Council of Keeping Racial Purity, except in the case of Oh-so-hot trolls
I never really got the 3.x thing of "hey, let's have dragons go all Zeus-like and mate with anything that moves!"
I mean, the PC-type half-dragons made sense: dragons often interact with intelligent humanoid races. But some of the others... No.
What I would have done, for those other critter-types, is take a page from the 3E dragonborn. Instead of everything thing being a half-dragon, make it where a dragon could select a suitable critter, enact some ritual, and by that ritual give the critter some draconic traits.
So instead of the backstory being "this dragon once got it on with a troll, so it's a half-dragon troll," the backstory would be "this dragon wanted a troll guardian, so he used this 'Draconic Blessing' ritual that involved some of the dragon's own blood, and now it has a dragon-infused troll as a guardian." Same basic thing -- don't even need to change the stats! -- but not as ridiculous a backstory. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Jul 2020 : 13:18:39
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade
an 3.5 rule a dev once suggested for this, was the Half-Dragon; add a Half-Green to an black ,and you got a dragon with heritage in two types and two breath weapons.
I just can't see it happening. I mean, I can picture a dragon looking at a troll and going "MMMMmmmmm, I gots to have me a piece of that", but two dragons of different species mating . Unheard of!!!
Message Brought to you by The Draconic Council of Keeping Racial Purity, except in the case of Oh-so-hot trolls |
| Starshade |
Posted - 18 Jul 2020 : 11:08:24
an 3.5 rule a dev once suggested for this, was the Half-Dragon; add a Half-Green to an black ,and you got a dragon with heritage in two types and two breath weapons. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 17 Jul 2020 : 19:19:54
-Different descriptions have kind of changed around a little their breath weapons (lines, cones, clouds), and I know in at least Green Dragons' case, "chlorine gas" was changed to just "acid gas", but that's not really much of a difference. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 17 Jul 2020 : 07:32:16
dragons on Coliar in realmspace could cross breed as well, mixing their coloration, but they'd only have the breath weapon of one parent. Flamebrand Firetongue was a red/copper combination. They would look like the dragon whose breath weapon they take on, but their hide would be two colored and have double immunity. I could see a black and red mating, and the resulting dragon having a red's body with significant black amongst its coloration |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 17 Jul 2020 : 00:03:12
There were also spells, from Ed's Dragon articles that allowed a dragon to alternate its breath weapon... they might have been included in the Cult of the Dragon book, but I can't recall.
|
| Ayrik |
Posted - 16 Jul 2020 : 23:36:38
The 2E Draconomicon had rules for dragon crossbreeds. A Black/Red is possible, appearance would be a mix of the two parents (such a dark red that it basically looks black in most conditions), breath weapon would be a half/half combination (in this instance a corrosive acid which burns the air and anything else it contacts). A Gold/Black would also be possible, though it seems far less likely and I think it would look too glossy or shiny anyhow. |
| AliMaClan |
Posted - 16 Jul 2020 : 23:20:50
As a member of the dragon’s friendly society, I am compelled to point out that whilst broadly correct, this is not the case for ice dragons of clerical grade...
http://www.dragons-friendly-society.co.uk/noggin/noggin.htm
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Jul 2020 : 22:14:51
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade
I was dreaming recently of a Black Dragon breathing fire...
Thinking, did chromatic dragons ever have 2 weapons, or, was my dream just a bit creative?
In D&D, your standard-issue chromatic dragons have a single breath weapon corresponding to their color.
That seems to be just a D&D thing; most other fantasy dragons breathe fire, regardless of color. |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 16 Jul 2020 : 18:39:51
I have not seen any in anything I have read but given the fact the spell Dragon Breath exists (pg 267 in the 2e Wizard's Spell Compendium Vol 1), I don't see why a dragon couldn't use that to seem to have more than one type |
|
|
