| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Azar |
Posted - 04 Jun 2020 : 23:53:32
In my campaign, there is this upscale inn with heated baths; the baths themselves were chiseled by priests of Gond, enchanted by priests of Kossuth to heat up on command and priests of Istishia to produce (and remove) water on command. Upon further consideration, there seems to be a potential conflict just below the surface. I wonder what the likelihood of a Istishian detecting the enchantments of a Kossuthan is (and vice versa). Also, I imagine that a priest - no matter their Alignment - that picks up on the magic of an opposing religion would express a degree of fury and immediately leave or even attempt to dispel what they perceive to be an aberration. |
| 10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 11 Jun 2020 : 00:02:13
I think the ELemental Lords aren't entirely uncaring.
Kossuth would likely be quite willing to grant flame spells to his favourite arsonists. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 10 Jun 2020 : 16:52:57
Conflict over what? It requires something that both sides want, but cannot both have. And normally, that either may have.
I just don't see any.
Even if they both want to proselytise (which is much less common among the priests of Elemental Lords), there are probably very few potential worshippers who could be swayed to either, rather than already inclined to one, or will stop at lip service to both.
So practically it's going to be at most about personal status of the priests.
And with few exceptions (like in Thay), elemental priests tend toward asocial, or they would pick a deity more involved with mortal affairs and be a part of a more active church in the first place.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Lathander certainly grants his priests spells like alter fire, produce flame, heat metal, etc.
Istishia certainly grants her priests spells like create water, purify water, etc.
Why does it matter how directly the deity controls the element or which deity is more powerful than the other? What matters is that priests worshipping the deity can cast the necessary spells, or at least can pray for spells with similar scope and effect.
It also does matter whether the deity in question approves given activity.
With Lathander and Eldath relation of the desired result to their cause matters.
Conversely, the Elemental Lords (due to opportunistic faith "feeding" rather than obligate) simply don't care much about mortal affairs. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 09 Jun 2020 : 04:30:59
Lathander certainly grants his priests spells like alter fire, produce flame, heat metal, etc.
Istishia certainly grants her priests spells like create water, purify water, etc.
Why does it matter how directly the deity controls the element or which deity is more powerful than the other? What matters is that priests worshipping the deity can cast the necessary spells, or at least can pray for spells with similar scope and effect.
I'm guessing that a priest praying for a magic bathtub filled with magic bathwater isn't really going to be denied because of technical restrictions imposed in the spell descriptors. He might be denied because of faltering faith or impure purpose or whatever - and, if he subscribes to an oppositional view of the elements - he might be denied because of a divine conflict of interest.
Perhaps worth noting that specialist wizards who are forbidden to cast spells from opposed schools can still create items and cast spells which involve these opposed magics, provided their primary specialization is involved. In 2E rules. While 3E rules are more generous. And subsequent-edition rules are even more flexible. |
| Azar |
Posted - 08 Jun 2020 : 13:38:19
I should note that my impression of both clergies originates from the Faiths and Avatars supplement. Kossuth is listed under "Foes" for Istishia and Istishia is listed under "Foes" for Kossuth. To me, this indicates more than a strident disagreement; this is outright hatred.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
You could sidestep the perceived conflict by invoking beings like Lathander and Eldath instead of Istishia and Kossuth.
Would you say that Lathander has enough control over fire to allow a follower to enchant an item to heat up? Does Eldath have sufficient say-so over the element of water to allow a priest of hers to enchant an item to spontaneously generate water? I could see a bath enchanted by a Lathanderite to rapidly warm if exposed to even a modicum of sunlight: indoors (away from windows or skylights), however, is a tougher sell.
quote:
Originally posted by AyrikAnd I agree with AJA, elemental powers are not necessarily automatically-opposed powers in all things. A sunrise blazing across windblown wavecrests crashing onto a rocky shore, all four of the classical elements active - each in its own way, without any regard for the others - yet all in a synergy to produce a majestic scene which would be diminished if any of the four was lacking. The philosophies of elementalists in D&D (based on the philosophies of worshippers and scholars in our ancient times) tend to emphasize interactions of elements and transitions of elements more than mutual destruction of elements.
I see the merit in that point-of-view, but the elemental deities (Akadi, Grumbar, Istishia and Kossuth) and their priests don't strike me as interested in such a balance. What you've described seems more appropriate to Silvanus or any other nature deity (that recognizes the importance of the whole). Certainly, a fundamentalist would see their element become the dominant one (a world on fire, a world submerged, a world without an atmosphere, a world rid of anything constraining the sky). However...a Good-aligned elemental priest would probably be the most reasonable of their clergy.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I'd make it even simpler. The bath heats upon command (as inscribed on it upper rim) and was enchanted by Kossuthans. The sea shell next to the bath summons just enough water to fill the bath tub at a slow rate, and its command word is etched onto its shell. These sea shells are not to be confused with the other three sea shells in the bathroom that are used for an obvious other purpose.
That's fairly close to how I envisioned the bath functioning. You can say a command word or touch a specified part of the construction to cause the stone to warm. A similar utterance/gesture causes water to spring into existence and another makes the water swirl gently. What we have here is essentially a fantasy jacuzzi. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 06 Jun 2020 : 10:33:31
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I admit that I never did figure out that three sea shells puzzle.
He doesn't know how to use the three seashells?!?!?!?! |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 06 Jun 2020 : 08:20:07
I admit that I never did figure out that three sea shells puzzle. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Jun 2020 : 16:46:12
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I'd make it even simpler. The bath heats upon command (as inscribed on it upper rim) and was enchanted by Kossuthans. The sea shell next to the bath summons just enough water to fill the bath tub at a slow rate, and its command word is etched onto its shell. These sea shells are not to be confused with the other three sea shells in the bathroom that are used for an obvious other purpose.
Nicely done, sir! |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 05 Jun 2020 : 16:04:52
I'd make it even simpler. The bath heats upon command (as inscribed on it upper rim) and was enchanted by Kossuthans. The sea shell next to the bath summons just enough water to fill the bath tub at a slow rate, and its command word is etched onto its shell. These sea shells are not to be confused with the other three sea shells in the bathroom that are used for an obvious other purpose. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 05 Jun 2020 : 03:35:57
You could sidestep the perceived conflict by invoking beings like Lathander and Eldath instead of Istishia and Kossuth.
And I agree with AJA, elemental powers are not necessarily automatically-opposed powers in all things. A sunrise blazing across windblown wavecrests crashing onto a rocky shore, all four of the classical elements active - each in its own way, without any regard for the others - yet all in a synergy to produce a majestic scene which would be diminished if any of the four was lacking. The philosophies of elementalists in D&D (based on the philosophies of worshippers and scholars in our ancient times) tend to emphasize interactions of elements and transitions of elements more than mutual destruction of elements. |
| AJA |
Posted - 05 Jun 2020 : 00:57:45
As Ed has said repeatedly, in the Realms EVERYONE knows all the gods are real – even those of other priesthoods. The Elemental powers working on a more primal level like you describe could be an interesting idea, but it would be an out-of-canon type of thing.
In your given example, I don't see a problem here at all. Every time the waters heat up it proves the power and glory of Kossuth, and every time the baths refill it affirms the majesty and capability of Istishia. Each god gets that "soft worship" that fuels the bulk of their divinity, each god benefits. An individual priest may well claim their god should get the lion's share of the credit ("Without the magnificence of Kossuth, this bath would be just another tepid horse pond!"), and a true zealot might refuse to bathe there ("The true glory of the Blue Goddess can only be found in an unsullied place of natural water!," or somesuch), but they wouldn't just start tearing the place down.
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