| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 10 Mar 2020 : 18:25:13
Just for fun, I propose that we take some the realmspace planets as listed as canon, but we "delve" them more and discuss options for what may populate them based upon their nature. I say this because many planets may have only had a few pages of discussion devoted to them, but they're large and could have a lot of options. I've already discussed putting Ellefolk/Arak on the moon, so I won't go there in this . Just to give an idea of some options I was thinking about just randomly.
Glyth - a planet covered in gelatin instead of water. I'm reminded of a mini I saw someone paint that had a 4 eyed snail person whose eyes were on stalks. Is there some race that resembles this already? If not, I propose we create one that populates this world in addition to the mindflayers. Possibly the gelatin on the world is like Auramycos as well and is sentient (a chosen of Ghaunadar?).
Coliar - a collection of orbiting earth and water islands with lizard folk and aarakocra and some unusual dragons. In addition, the races are known to perform genetic modification via sending their eggs to orbit the sun more closely when they get a chance. I'd propose different types of aarakocra. I'd also propose sauroid races, but NOT Saurials and not Sarrukh. By that I mean what about a "raptor" type race. Maybe a herbivorous race with a long neck that acts somewhat like a giraffe eating from trees. Maybe some sauroids that function in water.
The giant plant/tree known as garden just screams having kercpa inhabiting it to me. Also having a family of amber dragons on it seems right (and something in me wants to put an ancient shadow dragon and a roc to kind of mirror Yggdrasil... just because).
Any other ideas pop in anyone's head. Not really sure why I wanted to pursue this other than to maybe just discuss ideas. . |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 17 Jul 2020 : 23:40:50
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Just a quick side note. It would be utterly bizarre if H’Calos - the massive worm destroyer of Maztica who fell from the skies was not from H’Catha. Personally, I reskinned some purple worms (adding claw attacks and such) to make the “H’Calans” which are the Star Worm’s offspring. Perhaps H’Catha is crawling with such creatures?
Why? Aside from the H'Ca part, what suggests any connection between the two?
I get that the names are similar, but I've long been loathe to assume a connection just because of similar words. Cart and care are just one letter apart, but there is nothing at all that connects them.
When Mirandos of Helm performed the ritual to free H’Calos, one of the conditions it needed to be under was that H’Catha must just have risen in the sky. I’m pretty sure the H’Catha/H’Calos connection was intentional. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 14 Jul 2020 : 15:29:27
Also, on Coliar, just noting that there is more of a description of its weather wherein there's clouds more around the exterior and lightning around the exterior. The lizard folk live more towards this area and that aarakocras live more towards the interiors. I don't see a problem necessarily with this, though I'd also put clouds and weather on the interior as well, but perhaps after you get past the "outer ring" you can make out the other earth islands a little more clearly. That being said, when the planet is 40,000-100,000 miles in diameter, I don't envision anyone seeing from one side to the other.
Also to note, there's descriptions of the temperature that make this place generally between 40 degrees at its coolest and generally in the 75 degrees and higher. The wearing of armor is something I specifically don't see happening unless someone has something to control the heat. Shields are something else entirely. I actually picture these cultures using something akin to incarnum and psionic magics that enhance the body, and the study of force effects may be relatively common with things like a shield made of force being a common type of favored equipment. Light armors and silk armors would be the most common.
In the case of silk, it might be interesting if there are giant butterflies and moths raised specifically for their silks. These creatures needn't be humongous and some might be the size of dogs, and they may even be treated as pets. Perhaps the colors from their wings have some kind of uses. Giant spiders might be raised similarly, and perhaps such creatures are treated as beasts of burden as well. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 14 Jul 2020 : 15:12:44
Aulddragon/Jeff,
Consider this canon to me then, since we don't really have a starting point.
On the aarakocra worshippers, I do like Quorlinn as a god of "tricksters" and "thieves" for the world, but that such acts are heavily looked down on by the population and thus his churches are hidden, etc.. I know she's not a realms deity, but I actually prefer to bring in the Raven Queen (never thought she would have caught me so much, but she has) as a goddess of death, winter, and fate to the world for the kenku of the world (because I would like a lot of different bird folk). Perhaps she has actually blessed the kenku of this world such that they aren't flightless. In fact, maybe they aren't the "kenku" on this world, but the human sized winged "Tengu" of 3rd edition Oriental Adventures lore (who it says are also called "kenku" in the entry). Thus they could be involved without being the "cursed folk with no wings", and perhaps the few winged "kenku" of the realms (and there are some) might trace their lineage to a long ago transfer from Coliar to Toril via portal/spelljamming/planar travel, etc....
Syranita, Remnis, and Krocaa all work for me, and while they aren't mentioned, I like the idea of there being various giant bird species in addition to the aarakocra (so giant eagles, owls, ravens, parrots, woodpeckers, etc...), and having many of these species as awakened with druids amongst them. These races worshipping Remnis and Akadi both work.
Doing some data mining of the original source and your entries, I see the original states that there might be around "50" major ports. I had posited about 30 of the "really large" earth islands and about 90 of the next size down. If half of these are more towards the interior of Coliar, then they wouldn't make good ports, so I think this actually works pretty well. Something later in the original source states that there are "over 100 separate aarakocra governments", so that works as well with these rough numbers. Some of these governments may be isolationists and more towards the interior of Coliar with no ports for outsiders and absolutely no involvement with lizard folk.
You do give us a name or the "largest port", that being Athenar, and I call that now one of the largest earth islands (of rough size equivalent to six Texas states in total area, being almost 2 thousand miles in diameter, with maybe only a 1/10 of it populated). This being a very "cosmopolitan" port and having all kinds of races would make sense. Maybe there are lizardfolk on this earth island as well, but the place is predominantly controlled by the aarakocra, and the lizardfolk scheme against the aarakocra on the "other side" of the rock in undeveloped areas. There may be some lizard folk though who actually wanted to get away from lizard folk society and have been accepted on this particular earth island in their own community. Perhaps they welcome the idea of allowing the individual to "grow" and excel, versus "working for the betterment of all". This government is very democratic, allowing for elections and leaders using a "horn of voices" to speak before the masses about why they should be elected. There are five main parties it seems (goals?)and those elected stay in office for 7 years. For the last 1200 years, only females have been elected to power. Perhaps propaganda and influence via bards sent to speak well of elected officials is a thing on this world. Perhaps there's a bit of peddling influence for favors. There might also be a thriving use of detectives and writers who "spread the truth" via something akin to newspapers (but might be somethign totally different like a programmed illusion that's changed daily that people can pay for admittance to hear).
You also give us another large port, that being Hissta, and I'll happily call it the "second largest" earth island (let's say its 1500 miles in diameter). You also note that its the seat of government of more than a dozen smaller islands. So, perhaps there are near its orbit, 16 "smaller" islands of sizes varying in size (say 8 of size 10-30 miles in diameter, (so basically a small town with some outlying woods), say 5 of 30 to 60 miles in diameter (so basically 2 or 3 small towns and a bigger city), 2 pretty big earth islands of 70 to 300 miles in diameter, and one "large but not as large as Hissta" of let's say 600 miles in diameter. This should gives us something of an idea of what we might be working with, as the largest of the "smaller islands" would still be say near the size of Texas itself. The government of lizardmen is noted to be very "communistic" with wealth being distributed amongst everyone. There might be some corruption however, with some folks gaming the system in order to "give priority to their eggs" or "get a bit of better food".
This gives us a good starting point for two major groups to develop. Perhaps another good group to develop would be a "birdfolk" government focused on conquest via raiding. They might be space pirates to a degree. Perhaps they HATE lizard folk, and they actually draw aarakocra from other colonies whose lives have been impacted by the lizard folk. Thus, maybe half the citizenry of this "government" are from elsewhere. They might still follow the democratic ideals of leadership, but the 5 different factions might be separate pirating groups, with one acting as the High Captain, but each faction acting primarily separately to obtain similar goals. Like the aforementioned Hissta, this one sounds like a good candidate for a seat of government that's spread across multiple earth islands, but possibly a LOT more of the smaller ones. So, no one major big earth island ruling over smaller ones, but rather maybe 5 of the 70 to 300 mile in diameter islands, with another 25 of the 10-30 mile ones and 15 of the 30-60 mile ones... for a total of 45 earth islands working together. These might be spread out with other earth islands governed by bird folk or lizard folk between them.
Another major sized earth island might be totally dedicated to dragons, and perhaps there's "dragonkin" and dragonborn both on this earth island (since dragonborn are newer than 2e, I don't see a problem with them being on Coliar). This can be another unique government with them worshipping the dragons. Perhaps several smaller bird folk governments (say 4 of them spread across some 20 earth islands) nearby actually has the dragons nominate their candidates for office, but then the people elect them from amongst these candidates. Thus, the dragons and bird folk in this group might be very much involved. The dragons may even send their young to live amonst the bird folk, sending dragonborn along as guardians. The dragons might have palaces amongst this population. I like it very much if this population has feathered dragons rather than traditional. Perhaps there's also a satellite group of each of the bird folk governments that is allowed to have its own city on the major earth island and they work with the dragons directly from there (providing tribute in the form of cattle raised, etc... as well).
Perhaps another earth island is similarly covered with dragons, but these are perhaps universally of a more evil bent. Perhaps these dragons also are notedly NOT feathered. Maybe this earth island is a lot more savage. Perhaps they've also imported kobolds to be their servants (even going so far as to literally put out word that they'll buy kobolds to slavers). These dragons may be more power hungry and expect tribute for the nearby earthmotes (which maybe are almost all lizard folk). The lizard folk possibly serve as intermediate rulers on the earth island with the dragons, basically as a middle class over the kobolds. This larger earth island might have areas of desert, volcanoes, and swamp connected via grasslands (for red, black, brown, blue, and green dragons). The kobolds likely are not allowed to leave the place, and thus most outsiders know nothing of them unless they interact with this particular group.
To note, the dragons of this world do interbreed as well, and the resulting offspring have only one parent's breath weapon, but both parent's immunities. Their coloration also combines that of both parents. Presumably though, their primary coloration is that of their breath weapon (so a blue dragon that mates with a gold and has a child with the gold's breath weapons might be gold with blue spots, whereas its "sister" with the lightning breath might be blue with gold spots). If the children then interbreed, its the primary coloration that's passed around, not the secondary. If we did give these dragons feathers, these colorations might be very apparent in the feather patters. These dragons are also notedly neutral with very few having destructively evil tendencies (greedy perhaps, but not necessarily kill frenzy).
Ah, and I'm just noting that there is a description of the earth islands which I vote we throw out. It says they are "rough pyramidal shapes with the flat side up" and that there are "some that are several yards thick". A later thing wants to limit their size to a little more than 20 miles. Honestly, I like picturing them more like giant asteroids. Granted, the vast majority may be 10 miles or less (number in the thousands), but having as I noted earlier about 300 total that are bigger than 30 miles in diameter (and about 30 of that 300 being humongous) opens up some options . If they are only a few yards thick, that opens up for a lot of possible magical abuse and makes each earth island flimsy and untenable. Having them miles thick also allows for us to have people mining INTO these earth islands (to note, they do MINE, so this change has something of a precedent). The emptied mines may be turned into reservoirs for water, dump grounds for compost, or even points at which caves can be built for living. There could also be an "underdark" in the bigger ones comprised of previously dug caverns, and travel could occur via the "underways" in a secure environment without fear of bandits, etc... I feel things are improved and more options available by this change to the lore, so it should be incorporated.
Sidebar, one of the "major" imports from other people is "smokepowder". I propose that the aarakocra do a brisk trade with Anadia for powderpuff and that the two worlds are very aware of each other. Perhaps the Anadian halflings are dependent on Coliar for food to a degree, such that if the trade shut down the world population might have to shrink. Perhaps the fertilizer of Anadia for powderpuff consists of garbage scows hauled to Anadia containing basic compost material (nothing horrible, but it might consist of a lot of excrement, dead plant material, maybe some dead lizard folk and dinosaurs, etc...). |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 14 Jul 2020 : 11:51:38
Hey, BadCatMan (and anyone else interested), you got my mind flowing on southern Katashaka and an advanced civilization. Initially, the idea of lots of plane travelling ships from there just didn't "hit" me, but I've been thinking on the idea more in the background, in addition to some of my own comments about possibly mixing the Malatran "Ancient Nubari" down in Katashaka… along with several other remote areas of lore in other parts of the realms that are off the beaten path... and I think I've come up with an idea that works. That being said, I don't want to derail this thread, so I'm going to start another. Please come there and listen to my idea and bounce things back at me. You especially have shaped a lot of ideas I've had with the realms with very few words sometimes (I still happily recall the idea you put forth of some people looking up in the sky of Kara-Tur and "seeing" the spirit realms of their Celestial Bureaucracy overlaid on the material world, and that has colored my whole view of Kara-Tur). |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 14 Jul 2020 : 06:30:18
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
Quick note: The Anadjiin is based on the Predator, not the Alien xenomorph (that made it into Spelljammer as the Yitsan). :)
Hmmm, will have to look at the Yitsan. BTW, on this topic of turning them into alien v/s predator, Seethyr did something where he brought some Anadjiin to Lopango and has them fighting it out with some illithid/lizardman ceremorphs (think they're the Yangrel…. name may be wrong). Though I never used it, I appreciated the idea that there was this little jungle with this private war going on.
Both creatures are inspired by the scifi creatures, rather than actually being them, so there are ample differences. There's no facehugger/chestburster stage for the Yitsan; instead their eggs look like gold coins and they hatch and hide on a ship until they grow large enough on rats and vermin to start attacking the crew.
The Anadjiin are also quite different from the Predator aliens; they don't themselves travel in space and have no apparent desire to do so. They are consummate hunters, though.
On Coliar, I've added some details to the aarakocra, lizard man, and dragon cultures in my Monster Mythology Update Project.
From Syranita's Entry:
"Despite the large population of aarakocra on the world of Coliar, Syranita’s worship is relatively minor, with Akadi being the favored deity. The aarakocra see the flightless lizard men as interlopers on a world that is sacred to the Queen of Air, and use this as an excuse to constantly wage war on them. The worship of Syranita is generally relegated to smaller shrines in most communities, with her worshipers typically favoring roles of education and knowledge. Her largest temple is found on the relatively neutral port of Athenar, which is also the largest aarakocra port on the world. Her temple is a soaring structure of pink marble and crystal, curving up like a bird taking flight. The peak is some 50 feet high, from which a large group of wind chimes hang, filling the port with soft, pleasant tinkling tones most of the day. The temple is overseen by Dawning Cirrus Danara (aarakocraf P8), a kindly old aarakocra with an intense thirst for reading. She makes a habit of inquiring after new ships at port for books she hasn’t yet read. Due to the relative unimportance placed on Syranita’s worship on Coliar, many aarakocra who find her teachings appealing have left the world to travel wildspace in Corbinas and Eagle Ships."
I didn't put anything specific in Krocaa's entry, but he should have a clergy there, and Remnis might as well. If Quorlinn's faith is there, it would likely be in the form of aarakocran thieves' guilds, but I find that stretching things a bit, personally.
From Semuanya's entry:
"Very few large temples or holy sites dedicated to Semuanya exist. One of the largest is known as the Dome of the Survivor, located in the largest lizard man city on the world of Coliar. This city, Hissta, is the seat of government of more than a dozen smaller islands, and is one of the major spelljamming trading posts on the world. The temple sponsors the program that sends spelljamming vessels into orbit around Realmspace’s sun in order to produce stronger offspring, and it is even said priests some centuries back invented the popular Bloatfly vessel. The priests are scrupulously fair about the waiting lists that they maintain, even ensuring they themselves do not get preferential treatment. Those few lizard men who try to bribe their way into better positions are flogged, and any priest caught altering the rolls is thrown off the edge of the island without trial. These rules have kept the lists virtually unbiased for at least one hundred years.
The temple itself is a large, round, squat structure with a domed roof over a statue of Semuanya nearly 20 feet tall, carved from a single enormous piece of jade. The temple is administered by Elder Klaarstha Jadescute, who has served as high priest for nearly 57 years, and recently celebrated his two-hundredth birthday. He is especially wise, but favors very lengthy considerations about issues, and is considered particularly conservative compared to his predecessors and the younger priests. He advocates for closing the port to all traffic that is not necessary to getting more Bloatflies into solar orbit, although this is a minority view among the lizard men of Hissta."
Sess'innek's worship might be found on remote lizard man earth islands, but it should not be a major force considering how the lizard men of the world are portrayed.
From Io's Entry:
"The most important holy places dedicated to Io are all part of larger complexes. One such temple is the High Halls of Draconic Might on Coliar in Realmspace, a meeting place between dragons and a temple dedicated to Io, Zorquan, and Chronepsis. More information can be found in the entry for Zorquan."
From Zorquan's Entry:
"On the air world of Coliar in Realmspace, the tenets of Zorquan are especially popular, which is one of the reasons the majority of dragonkind on that world have shifted towards neutrality. One of the earth islands floating about within this world is home to a large temple complex dedicated to Io, Chronepsis, and Zorquan, called the High Halls of Draconic Might. Run by a family of blue dragons, this temple complex serves as a meeting place amongst the dragons, and a de facto assembly area where issues pertaining to all the dragon races are discussed."
I also dropped a hint that Elemtia, a draconic deity of the elements and elemental magic mentioned in the Council of Wyrms product may have been the one who granted the dragons of Coliar the ability to become Air Dragons.
None of the other dragon deities should have temples on the world, but a handful of dragons should worship most (if not all) of the deities in some form or another. The notable exception should be Rais, whose worship should not be found on Coliar, if only to not make Coliar's dragons overlap any more with the dragons of Edill in Greyspace (where Rais is originally from). IMO, of course.
Jeff |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 13 Jul 2020 : 19:05:40
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Just a quick side note. It would be utterly bizarre if H’Calos - the massive worm destroyer of Maztica who fell from the skies was not from H’Catha. Personally, I reskinned some purple worms (adding claw attacks and such) to make the “H’Calans” which are the Star Worm’s offspring. Perhaps H’Catha is crawling with such creatures?
Why? Aside from the H'Ca part, what suggests any connection between the two?
I get that the names are similar, but I've long been loathe to assume a connection just because of similar words. Cart and care are just one letter apart, but there is nothing at all that connects them.
One possible additional connection would be the aberration link. Another would be that its a creature from the stars, so having it come from a planet with a link to aberrations that also has a similar sounding name makes it convenient. Its not a solid link, but its better than most other options I see. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Jul 2020 : 18:48:00
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Just a quick side note. It would be utterly bizarre if H’Calos - the massive worm destroyer of Maztica who fell from the skies was not from H’Catha. Personally, I reskinned some purple worms (adding claw attacks and such) to make the “H’Calans” which are the Star Worm’s offspring. Perhaps H’Catha is crawling with such creatures?
Why? Aside from the H'Ca part, what suggests any connection between the two?
I get that the names are similar, but I've long been loathe to assume a connection just because of similar words. Cart and care are just one letter apart, but there is nothing at all that connects them. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 13 Jul 2020 : 18:16:46
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Just a quick side note. It would be utterly bizarre if H’Calos - the massive worm destroyer of Maztica who fell from the skies was not from H’Catha. Personally, I reskinned some purple worms (adding claw attacks and such) to make the “H’Calans” which are the Star Worm’s offspring. Perhaps H’Catha is crawling with such creatures?
Makes sense. I wouldn't be surprised if both Glyth and H'Catha don't have some kind of links to the Far Realm as well, and possibly this has something to do with this. |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 13 Jul 2020 : 15:57:12
Just a quick side note. It would be utterly bizarre if H’Calos - the massive worm destroyer of Maztica who fell from the skies was not from H’Catha. Personally, I reskinned some purple worms (adding claw attacks and such) to make the “H’Calans” which are the Star Worm’s offspring. Perhaps H’Catha is crawling with such creatures? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 13 Jul 2020 : 14:29:58
Another thought just hit me after I hit send, Coliar civilizations and trash. While I don't want to even remotely consider them to be like our own society with their trash issues, it might be worthwhile to consider that they have SOME kind of trash issues to a degree. Perhaps rather than let their sewerage float into their fresh water resources, they export it into "containers" that are then floated onto smaller earthmotes. These "compost bins" may sit on another earthmote for a few decades, and perhaps its a job for people to both haul them there, but also to know where old ones are and to realize that they've "ripened" and are probably "viable for use as fertilizer. This may be a dumb idea, and maybe I don't understand enough on waste products, but the general idea is to create an industry that consists of people going out to haul this stuff away and that there may be competition to find and recover "the good stuff" after its been away for some time. Any thoughts or improvements to this? Should we throw in some things like otyughs on remote earth islands, etc...? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 13 Jul 2020 : 14:22:36
Ok, after having read that, I came away with a few ideas. The main one... yeah, trying to apply real world physics to this place makes all the lore invalidated apparently and impossible.... thus... magic is the answer. However, he made some suppositions that might be worth looking at.
First, he's assuming that in physical land mass, Coliar would possibly outnumber Toril by several hundred times. I'm hesitant to say that, as I don't want this place hugely crowded with possibly earth islands colliding a lot. I'd prefer less land mass, but the place is safer. Why then do they maintain their orbit? Magic. I would also prefer that for every 1 earth island there's say 2 water islands, and that say half the earth islands already HAVE water as well. Thus, about half the earth islands are pretty much nothing but rock and no life on them, but they may occasionally "crash" into a water island, soak up a lot of water, and become habitable as a result. Thus, there might be migratory patterns from one earth island to another as they gain and lose water. There might also need to be temporary evacuations if one inhabited earth island is headed towards a water island OR the inhabitants may use some kind of magic to generate a short term "wall of force" or "airy water" type effect over their settlements so that they can survive an "impact" with a water island. Such things shouldn't be common, but maybe they're known to occur at least once a century.... and maybe ever five centuries or so, two earth islands might be destined to collide and possibly join or blow apart.
Outside of the earth islands and water islands, I picture Coliar to be FILLED with clouds. Visibility of the entirety of the planets orbiting earth and water islands should be next to impossible from either within the orbit or outside of it because of these clouds. In addition, these clouds should generate weather just like we see in our own world. Thus, rain, lightning, flooding, etc.... should all be possibilities. In fact, sudden "lightning storms" might be an interesting natural phenomenon, and perhaps some have developed means to seek such out to try and harness them somehow. An idea of having "lightning chaser" ships that have some kind of lightning rods attached to some crystal or metal object which can somehow gather the lightning and convert it to magical energy could prove fun for a campaign, especially if their ships are more like Halruaan skyships and less like perfectly maneuverable and fast spelljammers.
Ohhhhh, speaking of Halruaan Skyships…. water islands.... there should be giant tortoises AND dragon turtles. They should be dangerous and nasty creatures. EVERYONE tries to harvest them, because they're necessary for the creation of ships (just like the Halruaans, their shells are used on the hulls of sky ships).
Finally, in the earlier discussion BadCatMan pointed out on the FR Wiki, there was some discussion about making assumptions as to the size of most earth islands. The idea was that they would be 16 km in diameter on average (or 10 miles in diameter for those Americans like me who have to think in those terms). I propose that that's the SMALLEST earth island worth noting, and that while that's the most numerous (say 50%), they are also the least likely to have water or inhabitants. I propose that another 30% of them are 3 to 6 times bigger than this (so 30 to 60 miles in diameter), and that the next 15% of them are between 7 and 30 times bigger (so 70 to 300 miles in diameter), and that the remaining 5% are just humongous (300+ miles in diameter to say 2000 miles in diameter). For those (like myself) who need a reference in their heads, the rough diameter of Texas is about 800 miles, so the largest of these that we're talking about might be a little over 6 times the size of Texas in area ON ONE SIDE (so, maybe double that because I see no reason that the other side couldn't be habitable with clouds reflecting sunlight, etc...). The smallest of these might be the size of a several states of the USA (i.e. Arkansas, Mississippi & Louisiana together for instance would be around say 400 miles or so). This gives the ability to have complex societies on a handful of earth islands (perhaps ones in which both lizard folk and bird folk are even sharing said earth island and competing for resources with a dragon and its brood). In total, maybe there's 30 of these really large earth islands (i.e. the 5%), which would mean that if we keep the same rough percentages I threw out.... there's say 90 of the "slightly smaller" earth islands between 70 and 300 miles in diameter (or the size of a medium US state down to a smaller US state). Keeping the same idea going, that means roughly 180 of the "even smaller" earth islands that are 30 to 60 miles in diameter... which would be big enough for a major city or a moderate city with lots of farming/herding. Dropping down even further, that puts there being roughly 300 of the "uninhabited" earth islands that are from 10 to 30 miles in diameter, which might just have wild animals, a smallish tribe, a single dragon, or no other life at all. That would make about 300 earth islands in total, which in my viewpoint is just enough to "use" for development. There might even be another say 1000 to 3000 that are even smaller (i.e. from say a half mile to 10 miles in diameter, and basically nothing more than a place to land and gather resources or stretch ones legs) that are little more than footnotes on some scholar's skymap or somesuch. This number might be constantly changing as they collide with one another, etc.... and the larger earth islands may have some kind of magical defenses in play to "swat" these smaller earth islands aside gently rather than have them crash into their homes, or perhaps "tractor beam" them down to the surface where they can be mined, etc....
This gives us the ability to have more than a hundred complex societies which could roughly equate to "areas" of Faerun (an area similar to unapproachable east, the north, the heartlands, etc...), so the societies of this world might be as complex or moreso than Toril itself. I don't even remotely deign to suggest we detail them all, but it could be fun to detail a few dozen of them to get a rough ecosystem. Maybe one group is technologically advanced and in comparison another earth island is pretty much spiritualists and shamans. One group may be focused on necromancy, and they may harvest "resources" from other earth islands to create a society of slave skeletons. One group might be racists to the extreme, while others embrace their fellow races. One group might have lots of "offworlders" integrated into their society and trading with spelljammers and known as a great place to conduct trade. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 13 Jul 2020 : 13:28:20
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Behind the scenes at the FRW, there have been some astonishing discussions on applying real-world physics to Realmspace to calculate the exact properties of planets like Coliar, while accounting for Spelljammer mechanics. This led to some interesting theories about what's keeping Coliar habitable, as otherwise it would become super-dense and super-heated toward the core. Sirwhiteout wrote up some blog posts for some of it:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sirwhiteout/Realmspace_astronomy_-_Orbital_periods_and_distances
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sirwhiteout/Realmspace_Astronomy_-_Gravity_of_Planets_by_Composition
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sirwhiteout/Realmspace_Astronomy_-_The_Atmosphere_of_Coliar
Came back to read this (and sorry for the detour on Katashaka…. you know me and my interests well) so that I could get the topic back on thread. So, for the first two, I don't follow the orbital stuff much at all, but the gravity issue is something that makes me go... yep, if we apply real world physics, then all kinds of gravity issues creep in. In this case, I'd prefer to go with the hand glossing away of that issue, because we end up with all kinds of mess. In other words, if some small "earth island" exists it should have the same gravity as another "earth island" that's 50 times its size... and both should have the same gravity as a comet floating around in realmspace. Otherwise it just opens up a severe can of worms.
Then I get to the 3rd thing, and it interests me greatly, but before I read it heavily, I want to put down my thoughts before they're colored.
Specifically, one of the things I've been wondering is IF Coliar was the result of a planet being destroyed. I also put forth that something like Anadia could simply be an "earth island" of Coliar that got away. However, similarly, a planet like Karpri might which is almost entirely water and no real land mass (what "land" there is consists of giant vegetation, not "earth"), just might be a large portion of say an ocean of the former planet of "Coliar" before it exploded. Garden as well is simply like a dozen small "moons" which could be considered "earth islands" as well, connected by a giant plant. H'Catha as well might be a cast off of the earlier destruction as its really small as well.
It just might be that the only original planets were Chandos, Glyth, and Toril with Coliar as another but getting destroyed. But then I make myself take a step back again and go "well, who says that even Coliar was an existing planet?". I then start looking at the mythology of the crystal sphere and we're told that a celestial body was lit on fire in order to create "the sun". So, what if the lighting of the sun (literally the creation of thousands of portals to the plane of fire on that celestial object) caused a huge wave of destruction? Maybe a LOT of the planets were caused when the outer layers of said celestial object burst forth in flame and ejected materials from its surface (thus creating Anadia, Coliar, Karpri, Garden, and H'Catha, as well as numerous comets and possibly collections of asteroids, etc....). At the same time that "the sun was lit by numerous portals to the plane of fire opening" perhaps numerous portals to the plane of radiance as well opened on the inner shell of the crystal sphere, creating new "stars" to the beings living on Toril at the time.
Ok, that's what was going through my head before reading this. Let me see what comes to mind after being influenced. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 13 Jul 2020 : 12:23:26
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Thank you. You always show me something new. So, while not explicitly stating Katashaka, it seems like a good way to mine for cultures and locations to add (maybe its not in my original vision, but that's part of the point... collaboration).
Thank Look-a-troopa for connecting to the Ebony Queen at the wiki, it was quite an impressive leap. :)
And I should clarify that while Gold & Glory only refers to a distant, unnamed island, it's Dragon Annual #4's "Speaking in Tongues" that has the early Tabaxi and the Anaconda come from a "Dark Continent" (a hypothesised sub-Saharan-like island, and itself a generic Africa-style setting proposed in an earlier Dragon). Serpent Kingdoms expanded on the Tabaxi origins and The Grand History of the Realms went further and finally named Katashaka. So, linking the chain, I concluded the Dark Continent was Katashaka.
An alternative, though, is Akota, both a city in Zakhara (perhaps a colony or trade enclave) and a country somewhere well outside in Zakhara. I imagine one of the smaller continents/islands between Zakhara and Katashaka, if not on or part of Katashaka itself.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Akota
Looking further into the Ebony Queen, Captain Soot is an ajami mage, and an ajami is an outlander or foreigner to Zakhara. So, it's very likely he also comes from Katashaka. Soot is also lucky enough to be considered an honorary genie. There are also two gnome sea mages who could come from the same place.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Soot
With that, I picture modern Katashaka as being highly magically advanced, with ships that go to the elemental planes, though the Anaconda might hide their might from Faerun, hence their secrecy. A Torilian Wakanda, perhaps.
I will have to thank them then (so if you read this guys, thanks).
On the idea of Katashaka being highly magically advanced with lots of ships that travel to the elemental planes, I'm very hesitant to do that. I'd personally rather it be that Captain Soot captured someone else's ship that can travel between the inner planes and renamed it the Ebony Queen. He then put it to damn good use. I do like the idea though that he's from Katashaka (in particular, I'm picturing the humans of Katashaka being on the "Eastern" island of Katashaka and on the southern portion. The northern portion, I want to be mostly beastfolk (lion folk <Lenastans>, wemics, Tiger Folks <basically rakasta, but called Tigrans>, tabaxi (some black furred), Lamia, Rakshasa, yak men, minotaurs, goat folk (ibixians), zebrataurs, tauric antelopes with different looks, tauric warthogs, rhino men, rhinaurs, Loxo, lots of different bird folk, gnolls, mousefolk, rat folk, bat folk, etc...). I'd like for the middle 1/3 of the continent to be a dangerous land full of dinosaurs, jungle giants, crazed nuts worshipping giant kaiju-like nyama-nummo beasts.
I could see the southern portion of the continent having ties to a human race with some advanced magic. However, after yesterday, I'm kind of inclined to actually tie it to Malatra's race of "Ancient Nubari" who are three fingered, large skulled "humans" who came here fleeing their enemies in "star ships" of some sort. Having that "race" still surviving in some kind of remote area that's surrounded by the nyama-nummo with some kind of techno-magical barrier protecting it would fit the Wakanda mold. To note to self, the name would have to be pretty different, as I already unintentionally named the Wakanari Highlands and made it a somewhat advanced (more enlightened than advanced) culture of beast folk. |
| BadCatMan |
Posted - 13 Jul 2020 : 02:49:53
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Thank you. You always show me something new. So, while not explicitly stating Katashaka, it seems like a good way to mine for cultures and locations to add (maybe its not in my original vision, but that's part of the point... collaboration).
Thank Look-a-troopa for connecting to the Ebony Queen at the wiki, it was quite an impressive leap. :)
And I should clarify that while Gold & Glory only refers to a distant, unnamed island, it's Dragon Annual #4's "Speaking in Tongues" that has the early Tabaxi and the Anaconda come from a "Dark Continent" (a hypothesised sub-Saharan-like island, and itself a generic Africa-style setting proposed in an earlier Dragon). Serpent Kingdoms expanded on the Tabaxi origins and The Grand History of the Realms went further and finally named Katashaka. So, linking the chain, I concluded the Dark Continent was Katashaka.
An alternative, though, is Akota, both a city in Zakhara (perhaps a colony or trade enclave) and a country somewhere well outside in Zakhara. I imagine one of the smaller continents/islands between Zakhara and Katashaka, if not on or part of Katashaka itself.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Akota
Looking further into the Ebony Queen, Captain Soot is an ajami mage, and an ajami is an outlander or foreigner to Zakhara. So, it's very likely he also comes from Katashaka. Soot is also lucky enough to be considered an honorary genie. There are also two gnome sea mages who could come from the same place.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Soot
With that, I picture modern Katashaka as being highly magically advanced, with ships that go to the elemental planes, though the Anaconda might hide their might from Faerun, hence their secrecy. A Torilian Wakanda, perhaps. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 13 Jul 2020 : 01:15:55
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
If you are going to think about Realmspace, consider explaining what happened to cause the rain of meteors in 1374 DR. (Talked about in Grand History and Dragons of Faerun.)
Was this not the result of that first set of Erevis Cale novels? Where they chased the Slaad around and in the end all the bad guy wanted to do was make a tear of Selune block the sun for a while... Then it crashed to Toril and made meteors.
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 12 Jul 2020 : 21:12:46
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If you want to have a cat city, look at Per-Bastet. It's in the Southlands book from Kobold Press, and it has become one of my favorite fantasy cities.
Yep, I've looked at it. I'm actually inclined towards several different cat cities. Not so many human cities. One "cat city" would be a city of decadence ruled over by a variety of lamia that resembles the original (i.e. they have female tops, but their bottoms may be lion, deer, goat, cow, yak, etc...). Another would be a "cat city" ruled by Rakshasas who have lesser cat races under them, and the idea of this city is one of politics, scheming, etc.. A third "cat city" would be one of the "cowardly lenastans"... basically a Leonine cat folk that once held a position of prominence and have been forced from their homeland because they were overpowered. They aren't cowardly, but their enemies taunt them with that saying because they had to retreat from their homeland in disgrace because they had gotten lackadaisical in thinking they were secure.
Then there's the whole culture I've been thinking about with the Wakanari Highlands.... a place where cat's that fly (tressym, dragonne {aka Hakuna}, griffin, winged hunting cats, lammasu, etc...) isn't unusual, and catfolk and birdfolk actually get along. They're ruled over by numerous sphinx, who themselves are just the mouthpieces for the higher powers of "The Council of the Reborn Phoenix"... who are themselves unique individuals much like Primordials or godly incarnations/avatars. These councilors are different "varieties" of Phoenix, a great winged lion with a fiery mane named Nobannu, a great feathered dragon, etc...
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 12 Jul 2020 : 20:56:07
Back and was thinking on this and looking at the ebony queen reference as well. So, a planar travelling ship filled with "amazons" that are "related" to the people of the anaconda mercenary company. So, one group is definitely male/female in bonded pairs and the other is exclusively female. So, sounds like 2 different cultures both from roughly the same general area.
The fact that they say they're from "an island" makes me want to put them on the smaller of the two rather than Katashaka proper (to note, I've personally been calling that small continent large island east of Katashaka and south of Nimbral "Eastern Katashaka" though I've also seen maps that label it "tabaxiland"). I'm actually doing this because there's been some debate as to WHICH is actually "Katashaka".... and well, tabaxiland is a stupid name. I'd actually like to have the two land masses having been connected previously (along with Katashaka to Lopango), and something in the last few millenia happened that collapsed these connections. The one between "Katashaka" and "Eastern Katashaka", I'd like to be a large land mass that fell beneath the sea as a result, and its inhabitants get magically transformed into octopoid merfolk.
Oh, and on the weretiger reference, in looking at other materials, I think I'd rather go in another direction and tie Katashaka to another portion of the realms that has limited information, but a similar idea. They aren't infectious lyncanthropes. If we look at the living jungle Malatra there is a race of shapechangers called "Katanga", and they change shape into all kinds of creatures (basically another type of hengeyokai). Like lyncanthropes they have a human, hybrid, and animal form. There are specifically tiger Katanga and there are also specifically snake Katanga (that can take on the form of large snakes like anacondas/boa constrictors).
There's also a rumor in the living jungle books that if ever a member of the Simbara tribe of Malatra ever meets a "tiger", then there will be catastrophe. I propose that perhaps there's a portal in the sunken section that went under the sea between Katashaka and Eastern Katashaka. Basically, there's an ancient culture of 3 fingered humans with larger skulls known as the "Ancient Nubari" who came here "across the stars" fleeing an ancient enemy. These ancient Nubari settled in Malatra in a plateau that they created. Later some unwritten catastrophe happens to their civilization. It starts to fall, and eventually they start mating with the humans of Malatra to form what becomes the "Nubari" race (a less alien human). So, perhaps these "ancient Nubari" did something practical when they settled on Toril. They didn't just settle in one remote spot, but rather in two or more. One of these places is that land that sank over in Katashaka. Perhaps as well there are Katanga that live on the border of this territory, perhaps lots of them, in the form of snake and tiger Katanga. Thus, the worship of a snake spirit for the anaconda mercenary company and the rumors of weretigers, because possibly half of the people are Katanga of various types (tiger, snake, etc...). Perhaps these Katanga attacked and destroyed the Ancient Nubari civilization in Katashaka a thousand years or more ago, perhaps out of fear of their advanced "technology". Perhaps something bad happened akin to a nuclear meltdown and it destroyed that civilization (I'd stray from it being directly nuclear though.... it could involve them studying some kind of star metal...). Hell, we might even be able to tie it to Karsus' Folly, as yet another part of the world where magic stopped for a bit with disastrous consequences.
This might also help me with that idea of the octopoid folk as well, as perhaps they were Katanga as well, but they are octopus Katanga. Thus, they could come on land and have regular feet.
Although this would in effect be duplicating a lot of Malatra lore into this other area of the realms, I think that's perhaps the best way to do it. I personally like the idea that perhaps the Imaskari diaspora also possibly came to the ocean and decided that they should set sail. Thus, we could have some "Mulan" gods in Eastern Katashaka that aren't the typical Egyptian deities (perhaps some didn't want to follow Ra). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Jul 2020 : 16:28:01
If you want to have a cat city, look at Per-Bastet. It's in the Southlands book from Kobold Press, and it has become one of my favorite fantasy cities. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 12 Jul 2020 : 14:26:39
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Behind the scenes at the FRW, there have been some astonishing discussions on applying real-world physics to Realmspace to calculate the exact properties of planets like Coliar, while accounting for Spelljammer mechanics. This led to some interesting theories about what's keeping Coliar habitable, as otherwise it would become super-dense and super-heated toward the core. Sirwhiteout wrote up some blog posts for some of it:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sirwhiteout/Realmspace_astronomy_-_Orbital_periods_and_distances
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sirwhiteout/Realmspace_Astronomy_-_Gravity_of_Planets_by_Composition
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sirwhiteout/Realmspace_Astronomy_-_The_Atmosphere_of_Coliar
On Katashaka, an interesting connection is the Ebony Queen, a ship that sails to the elemental planes. The amazon warriors on board seem to come from Katashaka, so it's likely the rest of the crew and the even the ship itself do too.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Katashaka
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ebony_Queen
BadCatMan,
Thank you. You always show me something new. So, while not explicitly stating Katashaka, it seems like a good way to mine for cultures and locations to add (maybe its not in my original vision, but that's part of the point... collaboration).
So, for those who aren't digging into this, but want to follow along, that entry on Katashaka is talking about the anaconda mercenary company from gold and glory. From that we get some names of people and this
"This company of black men and women is a brotherhood of warriors sworn to defend one another to the death. Membership is open only to fighting couples; man and wife join at the same time and fight in pairs. Two small rows of diamond-shaped ritual scars on the scalp signify initiation.
The current leaders are Nkonzi Maru, an 11th-level ranger specialized in the spear, and her husband Kwanza Maru, a 9th-level priest of the snake god that is the Anaconda's patron deity. The troops are mostly 3rd-level warriors with concealment and tracking skills.
The origins of the Anaconda warrior society are lost, even to Nkonzi. Their culture is sophisticated but insular, and their language and rituals are never shared with outsiders. Their homeland is an island far to the southwest. Persistent rumors of weretigers among the Anaconda ranks have never been confirmed or denied."
They use poison when outnumbered, but only under a strict code. Only missile weapons may be poisoned, and only one member of a pair may use them.
To note as well, they have hawks, elephants, and a white tiger, and they use blow guns, scimitars, spears, hand axes and javelins.
My first thoughts are that I wanted to have a cat city with non-good weretigers ruled over by some rakshasa on the eastern shores. This group could be from there.
Gotta go to the store, will look into the references for the ebony queen when I get back. Thanks again.
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 12 Jul 2020 : 14:04:21
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Planet Anadia - moons - none
Planet Size B - 10-100 miles in diameter
NOTES: indigenous population of some kind of insect/reptile hybrid (anadjiin) that look like "alien" from the movie kinda and some kind of gremlin'ish thing (plainsjan).
Quick note: The Anadjiin is based on the Predator, not the Alien xenomorph (that made it into Spelljammer as the Yitsan). :)
Jeff
Hmmm, will have to look at the Yitsan. BTW, on this topic of turning them into alien v/s predator, Seethyr did something where he brought some Anadjiin to Lopango and has them fighting it out with some illithid/lizardman ceremorphs (think they're the Yangrel…. name may be wrong). Though I never used it, I appreciated the idea that there was this little jungle with this private war going on. |
| BadCatMan |
Posted - 11 Jul 2020 : 07:28:47
Behind the scenes at the FRW, there have been some astonishing discussions on applying real-world physics to Realmspace to calculate the exact properties of planets like Coliar, while accounting for Spelljammer mechanics. This led to some interesting theories about what's keeping Coliar habitable, as otherwise it would become super-dense and super-heated toward the core. Sirwhiteout wrote up some blog posts for some of it:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sirwhiteout/Realmspace_astronomy_-_Orbital_periods_and_distances
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sirwhiteout/Realmspace_Astronomy_-_Gravity_of_Planets_by_Composition
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sirwhiteout/Realmspace_Astronomy_-_The_Atmosphere_of_Coliar
On Katashaka, an interesting connection is the Ebony Queen, a ship that sails to the elemental planes. The amazon warriors on board seem to come from Katashaka, so it's likely the rest of the crew and the even the ship itself do too.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Katashaka
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ebony_Queen |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 11 Jul 2020 : 06:18:48
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Planet Anadia - moons - none
Planet Size B - 10-100 miles in diameter
NOTES: indigenous population of some kind of insect/reptile hybrid (anadjiin) that look like "alien" from the movie kinda and some kind of gremlin'ish thing (plainsjan).
Quick note: The Anadjiin is based on the Predator, not the Alien xenomorph (that made it into Spelljammer as the Yitsan). :)
Jeff |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 10 Jul 2020 : 20:58:00
Hmmm, and doing some research on the "size" of Toril, somewhere in one of the campaign settings it must say that Toril and earth are roughly equivalent in size. Looking up earth's diameter its just under 8000 miles. If we use that as a basis, then the previous calculation would put the size difference between the two as somewhere between 125 to 1953.125 times bigger. Just spitballing and saying its "1000" times bigger might simply be the best way to go, and then assuming that say 0.1% of the "air space" of Coliar has land or water material in it, but assuming that you can use all sides of this space, might put the two planets as roughly similar for possible population (consider a lot of Toril is water), but with coliar possibly larger but less inhabited per square mile.
Some other ideas of what to do with roleplaying might be more to do with work crews travelling between earth islands to scavenge them. Since everything's moving, keeping track of what's where and when might be a full time job for some personnel. I can see crews that go out to harvest lumber, mine metals and gems, etc... from other earth islands. Meanwhile, some of these other earth islands might be filled with bestial creatures that are a danger to anyone who lands there. It might not be worthwhile to setup a full on plant to process these materials, so a ship that works as a portable saw mill might be sent to work with some lumber workers. Another ship with appropriate smelting gear to reduce the ore needing to be hauled, etc... might go with miners. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 10 Jul 2020 : 20:25:44
What are some ideas to use with Coliar?
They are familiar with and have access to spelljamming technology. Granted, they may not have a lot of it, but they may also have more than Toril. They may also use ships similar to Halruaa's skyships (which I like this idea) for transport between earth islands. While the various bird folk have wings, they likely couldn't physically fly between earth islands simply due to the distance. Therefore, there may be "ferry" systems setup for travel between earth islands. Travel to water islands might be considered something like a vacation, and there might be "cruise ships" which carry people from one earth island to a water island to vacation and they live on the boat for the time that they're on the earth island. There might also be fishing crews that do similar (including things like a whaling crew).
What exactly weather is like might be interesting to develop. Some clouds and rain may occur, but then again water might be a commodity that some earth islands have to go retrieve. If some of these bird folk worship the raven queen, as a goddess of winter, her priests might go along with "Ice Crews" to freeze water, harpoon the resulting smallish iceberg and "drag" the block of ice back to their home earth island. There might be "ice pirates" who attempt to steal this ice as well.
On some ideas for some other "bird folk races", a "wild" version of turkey aarakocra who hunt an earth island that resembles the American grasslands, populated with flying tapirs and flying bison, etc... There might be forests with flying predators, etc... Might need to figure some way to make this look less like native americans in turkey form, but you get the rough idea (please don't hate on me for this, I know it needs work). Other birdfolk might be ones that resemble song birds and possess extraordinary skill as bards. Also, some of these earth islands might have less in the way of mammal populations and more in the way of giant insects and lizards/dinosaurs to hunt.
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 10 Jul 2020 : 20:14:08
Another thing we need to keep in mind in regards the planets are their sizes. I know its something that often escapes our train of thought, but places like Anadia, Garden, and H'Catha are EXTREMELY small. Meanwhile, Coliar is somewhere between 15.625 (2.5^3)and 64,000 (40^3) times bigger than Toril (Toril would be 1000-4000 miles in diameter and Coliar is 10,000 to 40,000 miles in diameter). Granted, a lot of that may be empty space, but at the same time, Toril for the most part is only habitable mostly on its surface, whereas each Coliar Earth island is habitable on all sides of the earth islands. Therefore, if we were to compare the square footage of useful land, there just MIGHT be more to Coliar than anywhere else in realmspace. Some of these earth islands of Coliar just might be the equivalent in size to whole sections of Faerun. For instance, an earth island that's the equivalent of Cormyr and Sembia on one "side" and the other side is a huge untapped forest the size of the dalelands. There might be earth islands of Coliar which are bigger than the planet Anadia and much bigger than many of Selune's tears. Each of these might have their own flora and fauna that's vastly different than other earth islands simply because they've not come close in millenia.
Planet Anadia - moons - none
Planet Size B - 10-100 miles in diameter
NOTES: indigenous population of some kind of insect/reptile hybrid (anadjiin) that look like "alien" from the movie kinda and some kind of gremlin'ish thing (plainsjan).
Planet Coliar - moons - none
Planet Size G - 40,000-100,000 miles in diameter
NOTES: islands of land around an air core (earthmotes). Reptile and bird species, predominantly Lizardmen, dragons, and aarakocras
Planet Toril - moons 1 plus "Tears"
Planet Size E - 4,000-10,000 miles in diameter
NOTES: The Moon, Selune, is one of the only moons that gets its own denoted planet size.... Its planet size is D, which is 1,000 to 4,000 miles in diameter. So Selune is bigger than the planets Anadia and H'Catha and Garden and near equal to Karpri in realmspace.
Karpri - moons - none
Planet Size D - 1,000-4,000 miles in diameter
NOTES: water world, frozen poles, seaweed equator. Indigenous population appears to be giant insects, giant arachnids, arctic predators of various sorts, telepathic dolphins, huge whales. Possibly the Shalarin that migrate to Toril came from here. There's also some transplants (aquatic elves, eyes of the deep, some gnomes)
Chandos - moons - none
Planet Size F - 10,000-40,000 miles in diameter
Notes: water world with irregular shaped rock formations like marbles that constantly move and reshape the surfaceland. Most of the population is intelligent, magical fish
Glyth - moons 3 plus rings
Planet Size E - 4,000-10,000 miles in diameter
NOTES: warm planet, acidic rain and smoke atmosphere, surface covered in fires and a weird gelatin. Interior riddle with caves and illithids.
Garden - moons 12
Planet Size A - Less than 10 miles in diameter
NOTES: small earth nodes held together by a giant plant (Yggdrasil's Child).
H'Catha - moons 2
Planet Size C - 100-1,000 miles in diameter
NOTES: flat world, central mountain. Beholder transplants. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 10 Jul 2020 : 18:55:35
So, in the above... the dragons of Coliar. They're "different". They tend to be more neutrally oriented and introspective. Maybe we should focus on making them even more different, by making them "feathered dragons". It doesn't have to be all of them mind you, and perhaps its only say half. In doing so, perhaps it might also be interesting to introduce phoenix into their society (not as a single entity, but more as an odd breed of primordial type creatures, many of different types). So, perhaps the dragons of Coliar have feathered wings because they bred with phoenix from the sun long ago. The dragons of Coliar may have been the "mounts" of primordials, and primordials may have encouraged this breeding in order to create a new race of mounts. In fact, the dragons of Coliar may have been linnorms (wingless dragons) prior to this or even something like the equivalent of dinosaurs with elemental abilities.
So, in this idea, maybe Coliar was a world of bird folk, and it was a solid world. Maybe it was ruled over by "primordials"/"archfey"/"primal spirits". Maybe all of this was PRIOR to the days of thunder on Toril. There was the conflict between the dawn titans and the gods in some form. This world is literally destroyed, and the debris from its destruction blots out the sun from the perspective of Toril. This causes the Shadow Epoch that we hear of prior to the Days of Thunder. The world isn't absolutely disintegrated however, and many of the earthmotes and water islands slowly start orbiting one another.
The destruction of this world may have caused many comets and lots of other flying debris that can be found in realmspace. In addition, there maybe be things like "dragon eggs" in this debris, and much like the eggs on game of thrones, maybe they went "dormant" somehow with the destruction of the world. Some of these flying meteors containing pockets of dragon eggs may occasionally get close enough that they get caught up in and dragged into the orbit of the moon as new tears. In addition, whole planets (for instance Anadia) may have come about because they are a large portion of Coliar that possibly got "ejected" during this destruction and then took up orbit around the sun.
How was this world destroyed? We can come up with a lot of reasons, but if we're including numerous Phoenix in the world, perhaps something came in and killed them all at once. Maybe some great battle of old against a grave darkness or beings from the Far Realm invading from Glyth or somesuch. Maybe the Phoenix are entrapped in "phoenix stones" which are in fact eggs which have been stopped from rebirthing. These "phoenix stones" should have some other name by which they're known in world, but the idea would be a petrified phoenix egg. Perhaps periodically one of these ancient phoenix eggs is awakened, and when this occurs, numerous petrified dragon eggs are also brought to life. In doing this concept, we could put these "eggs" as artifact like things in Toril, Coliar, and Anadia.
Perhaps some of the tears of Selune are even earthmotes of Coliar which have been navigated towards Toril via some type of magic that's similar to spelljamming. In fact, my idea that the "Wakanari Highlands" of Katashaka consists of numerous earthmotes that have phoenix and feathered dragons on them.... I'm now seeing a good way of linking that to Coliar (especially since Coliar has aarakocra). Perhaps the Aearee were beings of Coliar who eventually came to Toril after the destruction of their homeworld. They settled in the western portion of the realms in areas that might eventually become Anchorome/Maztica/Lopango. In my homebrew, portions of this civilization would also be involved with travelling south into Katashaka.
Perhaps some large portions of mountains, continents, etc... of Toril are transferred portions of Coliar. For instance, Seethyr introduces a deity known as "Intiri" down in Lopango who is a sun god who is in the world in physical form and occupies his own mountain down in the Lopango area. Intiri is also seen as a feathered god. Perhaps his entire mountain is a portion of Coliar transported to Toril and Intiri is a primordial entity of ancient Coliar that still lives. Perhaps his "true" form is that of a phoenix-like primordial power and he presents himself to the humans in the area in human form in order to gain worship. In other areas, I know that some folks are interested in making the small continent directly north of Anchorome as a source of Viking like northmen to have come from and to also make it a land of dragons. Perhaps its also a portion of Coliar, transferred to Toril, complete with dragons, that was allowed to land in the water and stay.
Why worry about what sections of Coliar might be on Toril? Because maybe there are portal links between the two worlds at these areas. For instance, perhaps for myself, the Wakanari Highlands of Katashaka might have portals from its earthmotes that connect to Coliar. These might be misunderstood, but the rulers of Katashaka may understand what they are, and the people of Katashaka may believe that they're transferring between planes, etc... or they may even understand what's happening. If I did do this, the idea that the Wakanari Highlands also has phoenix on them starts to make more sense, and perhaps we might want to delve into a kind of study of "Primordial Phoenixes".... (sidenote: what is Lathander?).
Also, if there are portal connections between these lands and Coliar, maybe this is how the Aearee came here, but also perhaps its how the lizard folk WENT to Coliar. The Sarrukh and Aearee may have gotten into some kind of conflict, and the Sarrukh captured some Aearee civilization on Toril and used its portals to send lizard folk to Coliar. Another option might be that both such creator races existed on Coliar but the Sarrukh came to Toril prior to the shadow epoch (or went to Coliar prior to the shadow epoch).
The "aarakocra" of Coliar should in my view be multiple types of birdfolk. The eagle like aarakocra, the parrot like pa'ratxi, the toucan like Tucati, the cockatoo like Kocratuura, the stork-like Ibideans, the peacock like peakocra, owl like owlrakocras, and the raven like kenku should all have presences (Note, of all these, only aarakocra and kenku are official creatures). However, Seethyr introduced a spacefaring merchant race of penguinfolk (Dohwar) that ride flying pigs that he's landed in Maztica and enslaved to some batrachi artifacts, and I could see these penguinfolk living on the "water islands" that are in Coliar's orbit, as well as things like a duck or pelican version. The idea is to give Coliar similar variety as you might find on Toril so that if you did introduce this world people might be able to picture it better in their heads. These various cultures might have attitudes which mimic what we view as their base creature, or they might be totally different (for instance the penguinfolk have turned warlike). There might also be fighting between the different subraces, etc....
Similarly, the lizardfolk of Coliar might be different groups, and perhaps they have various types of dinosaurs that they use as guards, cattle, mounts, beasts of burden, etc... |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 10 Jul 2020 : 16:38:10
Its been almost 4 months since we were discussing this topic, and for some reason this morning I felt like going back to it and seeing if people might not have new ideas with the passing of time. Specifically, I'd like to return to the specific topic of Coliar and see where our dreaming might take us, and I'm actively going back to other older threads where things may have been discussed and reviewing them for mining ideas reasons. I'm thinking I'll throw out rough brainstorming concepts, and then you guys, if interested, take and shoot at the ideas, twist them, or otherwise improve them.
First, what races are there? Well, there's aarakocra, there's lizard men, and there's dragons. Basically, the creator races minus the batrachi and humans and fey. Also, the dragons are treated as "guiders" of their civilization (almost like worship), and eventually they age to a point and "ascend" to an immortal status that allows them to leave their bodies in a spirit like "air dragon" form.
Second, what is the world like physically? There are a collection of "earth islands" aka "earthmotes" in modern speak, plus "water islands" all rotating around an airy core. While one thought is that "this is how its always been", another thought can easily be, something happened and blew this world apart and now the remnants have managed to coalesce into a bunch of orbiting components.
Third, what is the world like from other standpoints? Well, a big change from Toril is that the races here are very aware of spelljamming. Its not some "hidden secret". The people here know about spelljammers, they trade with visitors, they seek to use spelljammers to "enhance" their eggs by bringing them closer to the sun in some kind of genetic/metaphysical means.
What are some ideas we can then do with this world?
multiple kinds of aarakocra/kenku/other birdfolk
multiple kinds of lizard folk/saurials
dinosaurs
nagpa
worship of the raven queen tied to destruction of the world?
earthmotes used as spelljamming enclaves
tears of Selune including coliar earthmotes
destruction of coliar blotting out the sun for some time
Feathered Dragons
Phoenix |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 17 Mar 2020 : 17:26:07
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
If you are going to think about Realmspace, consider explaining what happened to cause the rain of meteors in 1374 DR. (Talked about in Grand History and Dragons of Faerun.)
Good question. The first idea that comes to mind is that something happened with the king killer star and its mythal, and that that comet had dragon eggs on it. I don't necessarily like that, but it would correspond most with the timeframe.
Possibly, IF the idea I proposed in some other thread that Abeir and Toril have crossed several times and that the sudden appearance of new "tears" of Selune like 4800 years ago by the elves and Shou was a transfer from Abeir to Toril of material... then perhaps this was a precursor of the spellplague (i.e. the worlds were moving closer). In this, I view the "clipping" of these two worlds as not an instantaneous thing. Mystra's "death" may have sped up portions somehow (maybe they dropped some safeguards?). I also view it as having some ties somehow to the "return" of Tiamat to Unther and the resurgence of Bahamut following the ToT. The two somehow have some ties to both worlds it seems to me as well as the Untheric pantheon.
BTW, I'm not totally convinced that Talos isn't some kind of primordial instead of god. His imagery as Bhaelros (in which he has a chained dragon, like a primordial with his mount in a chain) almost looks like some kind of "genie"/primordial. The fact that he disappeared after the spellplague, that this falling of meteors was linked to lightning strikes, etc... makes me think he had SOMETHING to do with the spellplague. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he had clandestinely thrown Shar under the bus simply because she was encroaching his territory way too much. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 17 Mar 2020 : 10:52:09
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Glyth - a planet covered in gelatin instead of water.
[...] I propose we create one that populates this world in addition to the mindflayers. Possibly the gelatin on the world is like Auramycos as well and is sentient (a chosen of Ghaunadar?).
20% "covered".
Illithids aren't big on coexistence, so they will try to enslave any other critter if it's somewhat useful, or exterminate and give freed resources to something they can eat if not.
The slime is said to be harmless to big creatures like visitors, so not that interesting, except maybe attempts to use it.
quote:
In addition, the races are known to perform genetic modification
What "genetic modification"?
Lizardfolk from eggs that were warmed and hatched closer to the sun than planets where humanoids are comfortable wind up better developed (mostly, smarter), that's it. It's not inherited, which is why they build those hatchery ships.
quote:
I'd also propose sauroid races, but NOT Saurials and not Sarrukh. By that I mean what about a "raptor" type race. Maybe a herbivorous race with a long neck that acts somewhat like a giraffe eating from trees. Maybe some sauroids that function in water.
There are saurials. And a few critters from Mystara. Also, were more in "Dragon's Bestiary: The Lizard Folk" by Michael Kuciak in Dragon #268.
quote:
The giant plant/tree known as garden just screams having kercpa inhabiting it to me. Also having a family of amber dragons on it seems right (and something in me wants to put an ancient shadow dragon and a roc to kind of mirror Yggdrasil... just because).
Garden is inhabited, so again, the question of how they all get along without one party becoming designated "skeet for the giff" or something.
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
For years I’ve been wanting to fully flesh out Anadia. So much can be stolen from Dark Sun and added there in the equatorial regions. [...]
The poles aren’t what interest me though. Imagine illithids from Glyth trying to capture the anadjin. That is as alien vs predator as you can get.
Also, maybe from Al-Qadim?
Between poles and equator there are several levels of nastiness, however.
Some stray kreen could colonize either of "moderate" belts on Anadia if there's any good ground. As long as they can find meat and some water, it's not too bad. It's not like they are afraid of umber hulks, after all.
But why would illithids want an anadjin? The critter's adapted to environment which is extremely inhospitable to humanoids, and for illithids with their mucous coating it got to be even more of a hell.
It could be used to herd something else, but in a stony desert total biomass density is too small to bother.
If there was some very valuable resource (like a local plant to use in alchemy) so far in hot zone halflings won't gather and sell it, it would make sense to have a local critter go gather it. But how'd they even find out if no one else travels there either? |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 11 Mar 2020 : 02:53:36
If you are going to think about Realmspace, consider explaining what happened to cause the rain of meteors in 1374 DR. (Talked about in Grand History and Dragons of Faerun.) |
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