| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 26 Feb 2020 : 22:07:05
Here are some thoughts on the Ruathen Pantheon. There may be some lore problems with this take. Feel free to let me know what you think.
Ruathen Pantheon
The Ruathen pantheon predates the arrival of the Ruathen people on the isle of Ruathym circa 3100 DR. The early Ruathen seafarers sailed from lands far to the west across the Trackless Sea to Faerūn. After settling on Ruathym, they eventually went on to settle most of the islands of the northern Trackless Sea and the Swordsea Coast. In time, they became known as the Northuir (Northmen).
Traditional Ruathen culture views the world as an endless contest between human heroes and the titanic forces of the natural world. In the Ruathen mythos, natural forces like beasts, seas, storms, and winter are embodied by the Gods of Fury: Talos the Stormlord, Auril the Frostmaiden, Malar the Beastlord, and Umberlee the Bitch Queen. Only the greatest of heroes could hope to prevail against the Gods of Fury, embodiments of four deific roles: the Hunter, the Sailor, the Wanderer, and the Warrior.
In the Ruathen mythos, from time to time mortal heroes ascend to the rank of demipower to embody those deific archtetypes. So there has been more than one Hunter, more than one Sailor, more than one Warrior, and more than one Wanderer, but never more than one of each such demipower at any given point in time.
In recent centuries, the portfolio of the Hunter has been held by Gwaeron Windstrom the Tracker, who stalked and slew and avatar of Malar, followed by several manifestations of the Beastlord in short succession. Before that time, legends speak of a Northuir huntress named Skadi the Stalker, who sailed the seas in the wake of Malar the Beastlord, who swam up from the deaths in the guise of the Seawolf to bedevil Northuir seafarers.
In recent centuries, the portfolio of the Sailor has been held by Valkur the Mighty, a Northuir sea captain from Mintarn who challenged Umberlee and won against all odds. Before that time, legends speak of a Northuir seawolf known as Ruathane the Reaver who plundered ships from the Sea of Moving Ice to the isle of Nimbral before sinking in a fierce winter storm wrapped in the tentacles of Umberlees bulk while being torn apart by sharks.
The portfolio of the Warrior was most recently seized by Uthgar the Battlefather, formerly a Ruathen thane named Uther Gardolffson, in the Year of the Icy Axe (123 DR). Uthgar defeated a dozen different spirit totems, venerated by various Beorunni and Runlathan tribes, to take his place at the head of the Uthgardt tribes, before being absorbed into the Faerūnian pantheon as a servant of Tempus (also rendered Tempos), Lord of War. Long before the rise of Uthgar, legends speak of a shape-shifting berserker known as Magnur the Hamfariggen. This bear-like warrior is thought to have roamed the isle of Ruathym in ursine form, endlessly battling Malar the Beastlord, before eventually becoming trapped in beast form.
The portfolio of the Wanderer has been held by Shaundakul (a Ruathen of Ruathym, neé Shaun, son of Akul) since the Rider of the Winds stumbled through a portal centuries ago and found himself on the far side of Faerūn. Ever since, Shaundakul has been slowly making his way home across the North, battling the Stormlord and other strange gods who bar his way. Over time, he has become the patron of the Ruathen diaspora, from the Rus of Rasheman to the Arkaiuns of Dambrath to the invaders of the Utter East. Long before the rise of Shaundakul, legends speak of a far-wandering sailor named Ulutiu who sailed the Trackless Sea. He is said to have frozen the northern waters with his enchanted necklace before falling asleep beneath what is now the Great Glacier. Some whisper the Ulutiu was a mortal who held the role of the Wanderer ere the Ruathens arrived on Ruathym.
In the centuries since the first founding of Illusk (circa --3000 DR), the Illuskans, as the descendants of the Ruathen explorers and Netherese refugees have come to be known, have intermingled, traded with, and raided many other human ethnic groups. In the course of those interactions, Ruathen gods like Talos have absorbed rival storm deities, such as Kozah (Netherese) and Bhaelros (Calishite). Likewise, Illuskans have adopted worship of other godsstarting with Tempos, Lord of Battles. As a result, the Ruathen pantheon is now considered part of the larger Faerūnian pantheon, and its deities are worshiped far and wide across the Realms.
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Returnip |
Posted - 24 Jan 2021 : 14:03:37
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Absolutely none of them. Eric and I haven't published our Ruathym work yet. Likely won't for a while.
-- George Krashos
Oh, sorry. I musunderstood then. Alright. I'll just wait patiently for when you do.  |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 24 Jan 2021 : 02:39:54
Absolutely none of them. Eric and I haven't published our Ruathym work yet. Likely won't for a while.
-- George Krashos |
| Returnip |
Posted - 23 Jan 2021 : 15:35:13
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Returnip
Sorry. I didn't read all the replies properly. George Krashos and anyone else working on material regarding Ruathym, same question. Have you published anything else somewhere that I can read?
I've published some stuff at the DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com
Do a search for my name and they will come up. A fair amount of mine are free or "pay what you want" (which in my experience for 99% of people is "free" too).
Eric hasn't published anything at the DMs Guild. Yet.
-- George Krashos
Found you! Which of them is about Ruathym? |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 20 Jan 2021 : 10:48:30
quote:
Originally posted by Returnip
Sorry. I didn't read all the replies properly. George Krashos and anyone else working on material regarding Ruathym, same question. Have you published anything else somewhere that I can read?
I've published some stuff at the DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com
Do a search for my name and they will come up. A fair amount of mine are free or "pay what you want" (which in my experience for 99% of people is "free" too).
Eric hasn't published anything at the DMs Guild. Yet.
-- George Krashos |
| Returnip |
Posted - 17 Jan 2021 : 22:30:55
Sorry. I didn't read all the replies properly. George Krashos and anyone else working on material regarding Ruathym, same question. Have you published anything else somewhere that I can read? |
| Returnip |
Posted - 16 Jan 2021 : 10:56:30
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Here are some thoughts on the Ruathen Pantheon.
By the gods, my viking heart beats so hard right now. Those are just beautiful and a very nice take on the "hero legends". I really like how Faerūnian you've made it all, and how well it fits together. Likewise the bad-guy-gods as symbols of forces of nature is excellent, and how larger than life mortals can rise up and overcome them.
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
I will await your version with bated breath, especially to see what monster you use (a kraken perhaps).
Isn't there already a huge world snake feeding on fears and waiting to consume the world to signal the end of times or something? I recall reading about it in some 3.5 ed book.
There is also some huge wolf thingamajig established as well iirc so the basis for Ragnarök is all there.
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
You'll note in Spellbound, they use two spellings Magnar and Magnur. The latter appears to be a typo, but ...
In ancient Norse the same runes would be pronounced differently in different parts of the lands. It's just dialectal differences. For examle "mothir" (the word for mother) has a rune that can be pronounced as o or a depending on where you're from, so as to have "mathir" and "mothir" mean the same and be written with the same runes. Not far fetched to decide that the different pronounciations of Magnar/Magnur are from different accounts from different people.
If you could only get a fertility/harvest/circle-of-life entity in there as well. Perhaps a hermaphrodite god? Male and female contained in one entity? Or at least having two sides or shapes or something.
I have a related question. How much published material on the Ruathem is there and in what books predominantly? And have you, ericlboyd, published anything else, perhaps here on Candlekeep? I'd like to read all there is to date.
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Thanks!
I had another thought about the Storm Lord ...
What if the "Lost Eye of Talos" explains the calm in the eye of hurricanes? It means an epic spellcaster who knows how to shape hurricanes can stand untouched in the eye of such storms, rendering Talos helpless to exact his fury.
That's an amazing idea.
I forgot to add earlier that the whole "hero legend" play makes for excellent plot ideas for players who want to be that mortal that rise up and overcome the forces of nature. Or in some way coexist. Standing in the eye of the storm for example. |
| deserk |
Posted - 12 Jan 2021 : 15:33:28
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
No, the four Gods of Fury are the bad guys. They are unchanging and more powerful than the hero gods.
The good guys are the four hero-gods. The current incarnations of the hero gods are Gwaeron (Hunter), Shaundakul (Wanderer), Uthgar (Warrior), and Valkur (Sailor).
The hero gods die occasionally, because they are weaker than the Gods of Fury.
Previous incarnations of the hero gods include: Skadi the Stalker (Hunter), Ruathane the Reaver (sailor), Magnur the Hamfariggen (warrior), and Ulutiu (Wanderer).
There were other incarnations of the hero gods as well.
Basically every time a hero god dies (at the hands of the Gods of Fury), a new mortal rises to take his or her place.
--Eric
Forgive me from resurrecting this thread, but I think these ideas on the Ruathen are quite intriguing.
I wonder if not the previous incarnations of these hero deities exist still as aspects of the current hero deity? Perhaps unlike the Illuskans of mainland Faerun, the Northlanders of the isles still revere many of these old hero god incarnations rather than the new ones, since there are no indications that deities like Shaundakul, Gwaeron Windstrom and Uthgar are being worshipped in the Northland isles in published Realms material. Though Valkur seems to have become a significant deity for the Northlanders in 5e (according to SCAG). Going by what Powers and Pantheons has said about Uthgar, it seems very unlikely any cultures outside of the Uthgardt would worship him, despite the fact he is a very significant figure in Ruathym's history.
Ruathane would be fitting as an aspect worshipped by the more rough-minded and war-like Ruathen sailors, bandits and reavers whom still cling strongly to the old ways of their forefathers, while Valkur would be worshipped by the more honest-dealing, progressive and adventurous sailors. Magnar the Hamfriggan would be quite fitting as an aspect worshipped in the settlements like Holgerstead (from the Tangled Webs book), where there exists a tradition of shapeshifting berserkers. Skadi could be venerated on islands like Tuern, Norland and Gnarhelm, islands where there are forestlands. She could make an interesting contrast given the Northlanders seem to generally dislike and avoid the forestlands (perhaps due to suspicions about malevolent fey and spirits within them?).
I also in general would love to see much more regional aspects, heresies and deities in the various countries and regions of Faerun. It helps to add more colour and richness to the world. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 01 Jun 2020 : 11:15:19
After reading the Crystal Shard and exploring the history of Icewind Dale i came across a curious passage or two that suggests that worship of Tempus may have originated from the Ice Hunter tribes that travelled from the north of Kara-Tur across the Great Glacier.
So the Glacier of the White Worm and the Reghed Glacier both have groups of nomadic barbarians that are distantly related to one another (according to the Bloodstone Lands sourcebook the SCAG).and both of whom worship Tempus in one guise or another, as do the Nar (those of Suren origin). All these three groups are isolationist enough to be little influenced by outside peoples and thus resist the Faerunian pantheon, but they all follow a similar deity.
Could it be possible that the worship of Tempus as a lord of battles was actually created by the merging of the myths and legends of Illuskan and Ice Hunter peoples.
The proto Ice Hunter tribes travelled from northern Kara-Tur across the Great Glacier and left behind groups that formed the Suren, the Ulutiuns, the barbarians of the White Worm, and the Reghedmen and Ice Hunters of the Sword Coast.
The Ice Hunters were chased out of the Sword Coast by the barbarians who likely worshipped some horrific storm coupled with a bloodthirsty monster like humanisation that brought out the worst in people and caused untold suffering. This idea merged somewhat with the Ice Hunters veneration of ancient ancestors (one in particular being Kerpos a great horse nomad general like figure - white horse and black horse). The northmen create the idea of Tempos as a bloodthirsty warrior, who over time becomes the being worshipped in the Moonshae Isles.
On mainland Faerun, the Illuskans gradually mutate this worship to Tempus the Lord of Battles and it spreads across Faerun with the Netherese and Jhaamdath diaspora.
In the Great Glacier the Ulutiuns abandon Kerpos after the Keryjak Wars, viewing warfare as an unnecessary and unaffordable waste of resources.
The barbarians of the White Worm still worship a derivative of the original Ice Hunter deity (give him a localised name), but which any Faerunian recognises as Tempus.
The Suren Nar were of course exposed to the Shou of Kara-Tur and perhaps should have a a representation of Tempus that is perhaps closest to the original (as a particularly powerful ancestor spirit that all the tribes recognise - with a black and white horse).
Just a thought regarding the Ruathen Pantheon and the possible origin of Tempus
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 19 May 2020 : 19:40:39
The Dawn Cock of Lathander
Someone made a 3d model that I'd thought about doing
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4373133
so I threw it in paint3d and made a picture
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q7WavrSE5QxFLox4Ocrf-jU1AEynGuxP/view?usp=sharing
Whilst Lathander is seen as the sun god, in Ruathen myth, Lathander himself is not seen as an embodiment of the sun, but rather he rides upon "the Dawn Cock" which is seen as a personification of the sun itself. These stories are seen as well amongst the Rus in Rashemen, the northmen of the Utter East, the Arkaiun barbarians of the Shaar. Even the Metahel of Far Anchorome, with their stories of Faerthandir who rides upon his golden furred foxibou, makes reference to the "Dawn Cock", as do Kercpa myths around Rititisk the Clever. In all such myths, "the Dawn Cock" is seen to sit at the top of the world tree and pass insults, threats, and embarrassing propositions through a Kercpa intermediary named Rititisk the Clever, who passes said down to Dendar the Night Serpent who sits at the root of the world tree feeding upon them and passing similar insults, threats, and embarrassing propositions back to the "Dawn Cock". The actual name of the Dawn Cock seems to have variations throughout the world, but the basic story seems to be very similar.
Interestingly, the great tree of Ruathym, Yggdrasil's Child, possesses a mated pair of cockogriffs (as these size small rooster griffins are known), and each year new hatchlings are born. Its rumored that the surrounding woods possess dozens of cockogriff nests, with color variations to match all varieties of chickens and housecats combined. Though they fly awkwardly, the kercpa that live in Yggdrasil's Child are favored of using the cockogriffs as flying mounts, and its said that some kercpa even use their cockogriffs to deliver messages and small packages around the island and to ships at sea nearby. Some Ruathym Sea Mages and captains are also known to have cockogriff pets or familiars, for such creatures are deemed to be lucky. There are those who say that these creatures have more to do with the Aearee of Anchorome that any mythical creature, and in truth there are stories of cockogriffs in Anchorome, some even being of larger sizes (for instance, one Azuposi koyemshis (known to westerners as a "clown") is said to have met Paiyatemu (known also a Trickster and Sun Youth) and been rewarded with a cockogriff mount. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 22 Apr 2020 : 18:22:39
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
(...) the four Gods of Fury are the bad guys. They are unchanging and more powerful than the hero gods.
The good guys are the four hero-gods.
(...)
Very nice.
It got me thinking: in the 1e Moonshae booklet, three of the four Gods of Fury are worshipped by some northmen. However, their main deity is Tempus, worshipped as a storm god (the book says "a stormy aspect of Tempus", IIRC).
What if Tempus defeated Talos, casting him away from the Moonshaes (explaining his absence there, and his desire to regain a foot there), and taking some of his storm powers in the process? Maybe the Eathmother helped him in his rivalry agains Talos (because he would be a lesser menace to the Isles), gaining the later's enmity. And then, Tempus inspires or patrons heroes to fight Talos' lackeys...
EDIT: typos |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 15 Apr 2020 : 03:17:41
Well, I just came up with an interesting idea for me for mixing Thor and Talos... maybe something that might involve Moander in a "splitting them into two parts" move. So, one of the things we've noted that's different about Talos from Kozah is this eye, and if you lift up the eyepatch you see a darkness with stars and its bad... really bad.... (I forget the whole what it does). So, an idea that Markustay had thrown around here about two years back was the concept of the Queen of Air and Darkness being more like the black diamond itself and "infecting" other beings. He was calling it the "Regalia of Winter", and I noted that she's also tied to darkness and death/undeath so perhaps "Regalia of Darkest Deathly Winters"... willing to hear another better name.... So, such that Auril may have been infected by ONE of the facets of the diamond crafted into some piece of Regalia. But, it doesn't HAVE to be just women infected, and perhaps the "Queen" sometimes works through male gods. So, what if what's behind the eyepatch is a facet of the black diamond, and its split the Thor that was into the Talos and Thoros that are (Thoros not being in the Faerunian Pantheon). Along similar lines, the faerie version of the QoA&D is said to be the "sister" of Titania.... so perhaps Titania is a split off kind of like Tyche/Beshaba. It could also be that this might stretch back even as far as Selune/Shar. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 12:28:26
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Technically, Talos also has a lost hand. He holds three staves in his hollow arm. Flavor text indicates that Big T is really, really old, given that the implications behind his staves.
Tarrasque goad? Hmm.
Behind that gruff, murderous facade is a big ol' softie who loves to play fetch with his pet tarrasque, preferably in front of Sune's realm while wearing nothing but a pair of shorts.
The resident celestials of Arborea have given up trying to evict him and have resorted to begging Sune to make him go away.
Those poor celestials that he hurls for the tarrasque to go fetch... |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 00:12:23
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Technically, Talos also has a lost hand. He holds three staves in his hollow arm. Flavor text indicates that Big T is really, really old, given that the implications behind his staves.
Tarrasque goad? Hmm.
Behind that gruff, murderous facade is a big ol' softie who loves to play fetch with his pet tarrasque, preferably in front of Sune's realm while wearing nothing but a pair of shorts.
The resident celestials of Arborea have given up trying to evict him and have resorted to begging Sune to make him go away. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 07 Apr 2020 : 21:20:04
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Technically, Talos also has a lost hand. He holds three staves in his hollow arm. Flavor text indicates that Big T is really, really old, given that the implications behind his staves.
Tarrasque goad? Hmm. |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 02 Apr 2020 : 20:16:49
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's less weird than the Native American deity Kokopelli. He had something detachable, but it wasn't his hands... He would drop it in a river, it would go visit a young lady bathing somewhere in that river, and then swim back.
Removable hands are nothing compared to that! 
Hmmmm, just what WAS Talos doing with that hand when he removed it...
Testing his lightning bolts for heft. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 02 Apr 2020 : 19:51:17
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's less weird than the Native American deity Kokopelli. He had something detachable, but it wasn't his hands... He would drop it in a river, it would go visit a young lady bathing somewhere in that river, and then swim back.
Removable hands are nothing compared to that!
Hmmmm, just what WAS Talos doing with that hand when he removed it... |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 02 Apr 2020 : 10:03:04
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Having 3 hands could have come about from the merging of the churches of kozah, bhaelros, and talos. Each church had an idea of their god wielding a separate sacred item and to ease the process of merging the churches (forced or voluntary) they decide to depict him as being able to have all 3 at the same time.
This is a great idea.
Yep, agreed. Good job Gary. Bringing it back to the "real world" is always the best way.
-- George Krashos |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 01 Apr 2020 : 19:18:41
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Thanks!
I had another thought about the Storm Lord ...
What if the "Lost Eye of Talos" explains the calm in the eye of hurricanes? It means an epic spellcaster who knows how to shape hurricanes can stand untouched in the eye of such storms, rendering Talos helpless to exact his fury.
Technically, Talos also has a lost hand. He holds three staves in his hollow arm. Flavor text indicates that Big T is really, really old, given that the implications behind his staves.
At least as I wrote it up in F&A, he hasn't lost a hand. He has removable hands. With tools inside. Which, in retrospect, is a bit weird.
It's less weird than the Native American deity Kokopelli. He had something detachable, but it wasn't his hands... He would drop it in a river, it would go visit a young lady bathing somewhere in that river, and then swim back.
Removable hands are nothing compared to that!
Osiris got a *ahem* similar deal when Isis and Nephthys raised him from the dead. Go figure. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 01 Apr 2020 : 17:34:16
Happy to have an occasional useful idea. I think I got the idea from the evolution of real world christianity and their ideas (calvinism, lutherans, etc). |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 01 Apr 2020 : 17:04:19
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Having 3 hands could have come about from the merging of the churches of kozah, bhaelros, and talos. Each church had an idea of their god wielding a separate sacred item and to ease the process of merging the churches (forced or voluntary) they decide to depict him as being able to have all 3 at the same time.
This is a great idea. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 01 Apr 2020 : 15:54:58
Depictions of a deity are just that, it doesnt necessarily have to resemble how the deity looks (not that anyone will actually ever see him to dispute the depiction).
Having 3 hands could have come about from the merging of the churches of kozah, bhaelros, and talos. Each church had an idea of their god wielding a separate sacred item and to ease the process of merging the churches (forced or voluntary) they decide to depict him as being able to have all 3 at the same time. Then a hundred years later someone questions how he can carry and use all three when he only has 2 hands, and so some bright spark comes up with the idea of a removable hand.
Whether it's an accurate depiction or not doesnt really matter, 99% of the population would never know if it was right or wrong.
But that's just how I deal with the god stuff.
Loving the gods of fury idea. Works great as a personification of primal forces that later evolve into the idea of a deity. The ever changing heroes to combat the gods of fury is also awesome, and I'll be willing to bet different regions of northmen worship different hero gods both past and present (leading to glorious disagreements). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Apr 2020 : 15:34:01
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Thanks!
I had another thought about the Storm Lord ...
What if the "Lost Eye of Talos" explains the calm in the eye of hurricanes? It means an epic spellcaster who knows how to shape hurricanes can stand untouched in the eye of such storms, rendering Talos helpless to exact his fury.
Technically, Talos also has a lost hand. He holds three staves in his hollow arm. Flavor text indicates that Big T is really, really old, given that the implications behind his staves.
At least as I wrote it up in F&A, he hasn't lost a hand. He has removable hands. With tools inside. Which, in retrospect, is a bit weird.
It's less weird than the Native American deity Kokopelli. He had something detachable, but it wasn't his hands... He would drop it in a river, it would go visit a young lady bathing somewhere in that river, and then swim back.
Removable hands are nothing compared to that! |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 31 Mar 2020 : 22:37:59
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Thanks!
I had another thought about the Storm Lord ...
What if the "Lost Eye of Talos" explains the calm in the eye of hurricanes? It means an epic spellcaster who knows how to shape hurricanes can stand untouched in the eye of such storms, rendering Talos helpless to exact his fury.
Technically, Talos also has a lost hand. He holds three staves in his hollow arm. Flavor text indicates that Big T is really, really old, given that the implications behind his staves.
At least as I wrote it up in F&A, he hasn't lost a hand. He has removable hands. With tools inside. Which, in retrospect, is a bit weird.
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 31 Mar 2020 : 22:22:08
Yeah, I've somewhat made the correlation of Thor/Odin combined, but more along the lines of Thor picking up where Odin left off and Ragnarok was wrong, he didn't die. I would not have this being tied to Ruathym at all though. He works for the Metahel. However.... IF ... Kozah were split like Tyche... and maybe he had been CN before.... such that we end up with Thoros (CG) and Talos (CE). That might be too silly though. Anyway, just for discussions sake, below is what I did for the Metahel in Anchorome since we're discussing this one idea of combining Thor and Odin. To note, the blue dragon Raethghul is meant to be a hidden reference to Gargauth and his blue dragon Rathguul, but I never developed it.
Thoros, Lord of Thunder and Lightning, Bringer of Rain, Stepfather of Yuellar, Father of the Thunder Twins and Thoordra - Much like his wife, Thoros' moods are reflected in his beard and hair color, changing from either blonde when he is acting nobly, to red when he is raging. He is seen to have lost his right eye, and he wears an eyepatch of blue dragon hide made from the wingskin torn from a great blue dragon named Raethghul whom he once fought. It is said however that beneath this patch lies the eye of his father, recovered from an ancient place of power after his father's disappearance, and those who claim to have seen it claim to have looked upon a whirling aura of stars, light, and darkness. He also lost his left arm in a fight with one of the great giant jarls of old, whose name seems to change with the telling. Thoros had this limb replaced with a magical arm of cold-forged black iron, which gives him great control of electricity and magnetism. He fights in his right hand with his famed everbleeding battle axe, Jarlsbluud, made of the bones of the first giant lord he ever killed and inlaid with carved deep green pieces of bloodstone flecked with red which are said to be organs of this giant lord. In his left hand Thoros uses his spear, Fangir, which is a piece of the world ash repeatedly lightning struck during a hurricane which threatened the tree when Thoros hung himself bleeding from it with spikes through his flesh for 16 days to uncover the power of runes. Its tip hardened by the resulting fires and engorged with the fury of the storm, Fangir is imbued with the powers of fire, wind, rain, thunder, and lightning. However, his favorite weapon is Mahljniir, a great double headed warhammer forged of the metal of a dead sun and smelted over the funeral pyre of his father, Asagrimmr, and whose second head is actually the fang of Kezris, left behind in his father's body when the great wolf killed him. The warhammer, Mahljniir, is capable of fighting on its own, and is said to possess the wit and wisdom of Asagrimmr. It also refuses to work for anyone which it does not deem worthy of its aid, though how it determines such worthiness seems to be conflicting depending on its mood. It is rumored that long ago, in return for his aid on a quest, Faerthandir blessed Thoros with such virility that when he impregnated his wife Sifya, it also awakened the seed in his former lover Yaernsacsa. Both Sifya and Yaernsacsa gave birth at the same time, and their children (Moedae and Magnaear) were twins. He is noted as having a chariot pulled by a pair of winged rams whose hooves spark and thunder as they pull him across the sky. Thoros is known to have many enemies, primarily amongst giantkind, but he is particularly known as well for having enmity with the demon lords Kostchtchie, Baphomet, and Orcus, as well as as another savage one eye god known to the Metahel people as Grumash. |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 31 Mar 2020 : 10:14:24
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Thanks!
I had another thought about the Storm Lord ...
What if the "Lost Eye of Talos" explains the calm in the eye of hurricanes? It means an epic spellcaster who knows how to shape hurricanes can stand untouched in the eye of such storms, rendering Talos helpless to exact his fury.
Technically, Talos also has a lost hand. He holds three staves in his hollow arm. Flavor text indicates that Big T is really, really old, given that the implications behind his staves.
Thinking about the staves (the spear Gungnir?), the really really old bit and especially the missing eye, Talos reminds at least me of Wotan/Odin. Yes, I admit I am stretching Occam's Razor quite a bit. |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 31 Mar 2020 : 07:53:35
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Thanks!
I had another thought about the Storm Lord ...
What if the "Lost Eye of Talos" explains the calm in the eye of hurricanes? It means an epic spellcaster who knows how to shape hurricanes can stand untouched in the eye of such storms, rendering Talos helpless to exact his fury.
Technically, Talos also has a lost hand. He holds three staves in his hollow arm. Flavor text indicates that Big T is really, really old, given that the implications behind his staves. |
| Baltas |
Posted - 31 Mar 2020 : 07:37:21
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
The problem for me is that Kozah is an exact copy of Talos in the Netheril boxed set (down to the CE alignment). I know why (designer reasons), but given that's what's printed ...
Indeed, and this why I thought for years Talos possibly originated as Kozah.
Although Ed did imply in the Anauroch sourcebook that Kozah was at least somewhat different, being described as seen as "Lawful" among Bedine.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Not totally. He lost an eye when he became Talos, which leads one to wonder how. Was it another deity or did something in theory happen to him to make him lose the eye? Its kind of why I've always kind of wondered about him. I will admit though that the specified alignment piece can be problematic, but if it were CN in THIS pantheon in THIS world... I can see a more "berserk" version of Thor that's more CN than CG (a lot of other cultures portray Thor as somewhat insane).
BTW, I have found it ironic that the Marvel Thor also loses his eye, and my version of Thor in the Metahel also gives up his eye.
With Thor, it's interesting Talos is similar to an evil combination of Thor and Odin, which also makes one one wondering about this.
About Thor being Chaotic Neutral, Thunor, the more archaic, Anglo-Saxon form of Thor, was described as Chaotic Neutral in Dragon Magazine 263. He was curiously described there as "The Warrior", but was also part of the darker side of the pantheon, along with Woden (who is though True Neutral) and Hred (Lawful Evil, "The Ice Maiden", even a bit similar to Auril), who is opposed by and to Nerthus and Eostre. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 30 Mar 2020 : 22:44:37
Thanks!
I had another thought about the Storm Lord ...
What if the "Lost Eye of Talos" explains the calm in the eye of hurricanes? It means an epic spellcaster who knows how to shape hurricanes can stand untouched in the eye of such storms, rendering Talos helpless to exact his fury. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 30 Mar 2020 : 22:15:52
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
So, there's nothing wrong with what you're suggesting, but I was deliberately trying to avoid recreating the Norse mythos or having good-aligned true gods in the pantheon.
My thought was non-evil Heroes vs. Evil-Brutal-Nature-Gods, with no support from good or neutral-aligned powerful deities.
And all of the heroes are mortals well known in history who ascended at a specific point in time, sort of a "fourth book in the trilogy" type story.
--Eric
Another idea that might appeal as well would be to do like you said and put some preheistory in which a lot of the "old gods" died in a conflict with the gods of fury... but they weren't hero gods, but actual true gods. For instance, perhaps Talos kills the god the that corresponds to the weather god of the past and tie it to around the time that the Netherese Pantheon changes.
For instance, Kozah = Thozah = Thor and is killed by Talos and/or Dendar
Amaunator = Amatyr = Tyr and is killed by Kezef the Chaos Hound
Jannath = Eldunath = Idun and is killed by Malar or Moander and when she dies the many spirit animals go wild (opening up for Uthgar to retame them)
Helm = Hemdahl = Heimdall and is disgraced for not having foreseen the coming assault.
Tempos being one of their gods, and maybe he survives and tries to bring on new gods.
Thus, you somewhat mirror the Norse mythos, since the Rus apparently did have some ties to it (mentions of Yggdrasil, mentions of Nidhogg, etc..) with it being a somewhat post-ragnarok scenario.
The problem for me is that Kozah is an exact copy of Talos in the Netheril boxed set (down to the CE alignment). I know why (designer reasons), but given that's what's printed ...
I was basically setting it up so that one of the early battles to merge the Ruathen and Netherese pantheons into the Faerunian pantheon unfolds as follows* below in my current history of the Church of Talos in the North.
* NOTE: This post is not Krashos-approved.
===
History: The Church of Talos first rose to prominence in the Savage North with the founding of Illusk circa -3000 DR. The Ruathen people had long feared the wrath of the Gods of Fury, and, when they first settled the Swordsea Coast, the inland reaches of the Savage North were seen as their unchallenged domain.
In -2301 DR, strong rumblings from the depths of Mount Hotenow attracted Talassan cultists from Illusk to the depths of the Neverwinter Woods, where they clashed with Netherese followers of Kozah, who had traveled north from Quesseer (Modern: Old Owl Well). Viewing each other as heretics, both groups called upon the favor of their respective god. The resultant Clash of Firestorms marked the first battle between the avatars of Talos and Kozah, unfolding on the summit of Mount Hotenow. Some scholars still believe that the long-slumbering volcano might well have erupted, if not for the High Mages of Iliyanbruen, who quickly wiped out both groups of storm-worshiprs and then quieted the rumblings of the volcano.
The Church of Talos returned to the Savage North with the founding of Tavaray in the Year of the Phandar (-50 DR) by Northuir (Northmen) settlers from Ruathym. Word soon spread in Tavaray of the Church of Kozah, a rival storm god, venerated and appeased in the great northern wilderness by Netherese refugees in Ascalhorn and Illusk. Word of such heresy prompted wave upon wave of Talassan cultists to head north from Tavaray into the Savage Frontier to battle these Netherese heretics.
In the three centuries that followed, followers of Talos and followers of Kozah fought battle after battle in the most dangerous reaches of the Savage North. The Church of Talos marks the Year of the Storm Crown (250 DR) as founding of the modern church, after which both Bhaelros (worshiped in far-off Calimshan) and Kozah were seen merely as regional aspects of Talos the Destroyer. Thereafter, the Talassan church was united across Faerūn in its love of destruction and hatred of civilization. The full fury of Taloss church was then turned upon the settled regions of the Savage North and elsewhere across the Realms.
In the centuries that followed, the Church of Talos waxed and waned in power in the Savage North, as the ranks of the faithful unleashed wave upon wave of destruction, often dying amidst the chaos they had unleashed. Although the Storm Lords followers were never large in number, most Illuskans (descended from the union of Netherese refugees and Northuir (Northmen) reavers), left offerings at scenes of natural destruction to appease the Raging One, in hopes they might be spared of his fury.
In the Year of Twelve Teeth (888 DR), the Church of Talos all but collapsed, when dozens of high-ranking Talassans perished in the Struggle of Storms, a great battle in far-off Kormul (on the southern edge of the Shaar, east of the Shining Sea) that tore apart the ranks of the faithful and killed the highest-ranking priests of the faith drawn from all across Faerūn. It took three centuriesuntil the Year of the Waking Wrath (1214 DR)for the church of the Storm Lord reclaim its power across the Realms, for every time a powerful priest or priestess of Talos rose up to command the faithful, a dozen rivals would converge to tear him or her down.
In the Savage North, the Church of Talos rose again to prominence in the Year of the Roaring Tempest (1016 DR), during the early years of the wizard-war between the Covenant and the Red Wizards of Thay. In the month of Tarsakh, there appeared a swirling storm of raging magic, a tempest of fire and ice, acid and stone. The Wildfire Tempest raged the length of the Spine of the World before becoming trapped by the prevailing winds between the Ice Mountains and the Ice Spires. Some claimed the Wildfire Tempest was the affer-effect of a massive spell battle between the Zulkir of Evocation and the four founders of the Covenant. Others claimed no such battle ever occurred, and instead this was the manifestation of a battle for dominance between the Storm Lord and a demipower of the Underdark, known as Malyk, god of wild magic.
Whatever the providence of the Wildfire Tempest, it attracted all manner of wizards, primarily those who studied elemental magics. Normally divided into four opposing factions, these elementalists united in their faith, forming a Talassan religious order known as the Lords of the Tempest. They came to be known for their exotic combinations of elemental magic. The Wildfire Tempest persisted until the Year of the Tempest (1027 DR), when it exploded in a burst of elemental energy on the eve of Greengrass that could be seen from hundreds of miles away. Since that time, the Lords of the Tempest have continued their secretive investigations, seeking to summon another Wildfire Tempest to the Spine of the World, this time large enough to consume the very Weave, and thus allow Talos to claim the portfolio of magic.
In the centuries since the appearance of the Wildfire Tempest, the church of Talos has waxed and waned in strength in the Savage North. Of late, the Church of Talos is once again in an expansionist mode, seeking to bring the Uthgardt tribes into worship of the four Gods of Fury, thus destroying Uthgar and his spirit totems and creating an army of barbarian warriors to unleash destruction against the cities of the Lords Alliance.
Not totally. He lost an eye when he became Talos, which leads one to wonder how. Was it another deity or did something in theory happen to him to make him lose the eye? Its kind of why I've always kind of wondered about him. I will admit though that the specified alignment piece can be problematic, but if it were CN in THIS pantheon in THIS world... I can see a more "berserk" version of Thor that's more CN than CG (a lot of other cultures portray Thor as somewhat insane).
BTW, I have found it ironic that the Marvel Thor also loses his eye, and my version of Thor in the Metahel also gives up his eye.
PPS - I absolutely adore your work you've done and you are my favorite author (yes, I rank you higher than Ed). I hope none of this comes across otherwise.
PPPPPPPS - BTW, I also really like this as a means of having the people of Ruathym losing contact with their roots as compared to other northmen on the other side of the world and turning to their own path. The hero worship, escalation piece really fits the area. Having them turn from their old gods to the gods they see active in other nearby cultures as well makes sense. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 30 Mar 2020 : 22:04:27
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
How about Shiallia as "the Guardian"? She is a nurturer who protects the weak, vulnerable and innocent and repairs the damage wrought by the Gods of Fury and their minions.
-- George Krashos
Not a bad idea from a Realms neophyte.
...
--Eric
I'm thrilled that you even thought it was an okay-ish idea, Mr Boyd. Sir.
And I have to say, thanks for all your brilliant work on the Realms. I'm a huge fan and wish you were still writing for WotC.
-- George Krashos |
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