| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 21 Nov 2019 : 21:25:51
In the Maztica Boxed set under the Sands of Tezca entry (one of the two major deserts) there is an entry on a ruin in the middle of the desert that has almost no back history called "Olbi."
Pretty much all of the information about it is summed up on the FR wiki which says...
quote:
Olbi
The ruined city of Olbi was older than even Tewahca. It was not as spectacular, but possessed secrets all its own. Olbi consisted of a series of clean, well-carved caverns with a variety of statues carved directly into the walls (representing the Maztican pantheon). The precision of the carvings showed evidence of metal tools or magical shaping, and treasures such as works of pluma, hishna, and gold could be found there.
I am trying to put together a book expanding upon it and I want to turn it into an almost Gygaxian dungeon crawl. I am also going to work up some new creatures to occupy it.
Here is a very quickly put together WIP, but I'd love to hear some opinions, particularly if you have some knowledge about this riun that has been brought up somewhere else.
The timing of the founding in its backstory has to be where it is unfortunately, and its tough to make ruins that date back 9-10k years. I'll explain the timing in a future post.
The Ruins of Olbi
I have also brought up this discussion over at the Piazza here, but I am curious to get some thoughts from the sages here as well. |
| 7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 23 Nov 2019 : 21:08:10
Just to brainstorm further on some of the "significant creatures or forces protecting the hidden secrets".
Maybe one area which holds a gargantuan scorpion in stasis in a complex dedicated to Huoxopica and his wife Ixtilli (scorpion folk deities from Underdark 3e, page 166).
A complex dedicated to Zaltec (and a cat woman goddess that just might be Kiga the Predator)- filled with Ghirrash (see 3e miniature's handbook), werejaguars, and rakshasa. Some of these ghirrash look like kamadan/kamatlan rather than black furred like displacer beasts.
A complex dedicated to Qotal and Kiltzi - has a spring that connects to the evergold, but only if a "sacrifice" of lovemaking is performed before their altars. Holds secrets of plumacraft. Protected by numerous traps utilizing Plumacraft (and which can be bypassed using secrets of plumacraft) and a feathered dragon, faerie dragons, couatls, and angels that are summoned in via magic upon intrusion.
Complex dedicated to Tezca- Efreeti pasha and normal efreeti protecting it, along with flame snakes, salamanders,
another complex that is maybe dedicated to many of the Maztican gods/goddesses (Nula, Watil, Plutoq, Eha, Azul, Maztica) that represent nature itself to a degree
Other complexes dedicated to various bird powers (Krocaa, Syranita, Quorlinn, Remnis of the Great Eagles, Thunderbird spirit, Great Raven spirit, Grey Owl spirit, etc..) and definitely a source of plumacraft
Complexes dedicated to dark powers like Ramenos, Blibdoolpoolp, etc... that have ties to powers of batrachi origin or far realms contacts.
Complexes dedicated to dark reptilian powers |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 23 Nov 2019 : 20:16:35
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Yeah I put Sands of Itzcala in the product, brain fart for Tezca because I’m simultaneously updating an adventure I wrote in the House of Tezca and the wires got crossed lol.
I unfortunately boxed myself a bit with the date. In the Maztica Campaign Guide I have “the gift of pluma” being given to mankind circa -8100. When I wrote it, I had this occur that late because I didn’t want the Maztican empires of man to predate too many of the premier human empires in Faerun. I know it’s not “new” per se, but in my mind the heyday of advancements in pluma and hishna magic should be now - and if it had occurred back in the days of the Sarrukh or Aearee, I feared there wouldn’t be that sense. Not to mention mankind was mostly primitive in those ages.
Then I had Zaltec’s beheading of Maztica in -8060 which only gives a 40 year window for Olbi, with its sense of multiple gods being represented together (I wanted to institute a brief era of cooperation among priests and lay folk, if not the gods themselves). That’s how I dated Olbi.
Every time I write about Maztica, I feel like I am always looking for an excuse to explain away why Maztican magic was so weak compared to Faerun - something I consider the greatest error of the original setting. Perhaps I should get over it.
On another note, if I wanted to give Olbi more significance (like your idea of Tecco having found the statue there), I might also somehow tie Olbi’s attempt to advance pluma magic part of what “triggered” Zaltec so badly into attacking his mother.
I am very glad you brought up the tombs though, because I would’ve missed that portion. I’m going to have to figure out how they work into the narrative. Im thinking in the thousands of years of existence, some of the Dog People occupied it for a time (sealing away the monsters perhaps) and it is their tombs that can be found. Perhaps their destruction is finally what drove the Dog People to become so nomadic. Since then, they don’t really occupy enclosed spaces anymore.
You aren't tied by that. Humans simply saying that the "gods" gave them those secrets whenever THEY discovered them …. from ba'etith ruins that held ba'etith secrets. The reasons they're not as good with them... they weren't designed with humans in mind. But, they learned how to adapt them. This also explains away why these magics aren't as good in general. For that matter, it may be that somewhere in these ruins is a "golden skin of the world serpent" that is basically a nether scroll (hell, there may be several, each in different sections of these ruins). There may even be secrets of spellweaver magic buried here as well (stolen OR maybe there were some spellweavers amongst the ba'etith). |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 23 Nov 2019 : 20:06:41
Ok, notes as I read through.
Your secrets about the history: While its interesting, it doesn't grab me. Instead of having the priests of Plutoq building it, what if they DISCOVERED it. What if Plutoq SENT them here. What if this is why the people of Huacli know of metal working? What about this idea. These ruins hold Pluma and Hishna Magics. It may be that these are the original magics of the Aearee and Sarrukh folks, and this place may have originally been a ba'etith stronghold. These types of magics may have been much stronger long ago, and they may have been much more powerful for peoples that possessed feathers, venom, or fangs. This may have been where humans LEARNED of pluma and hishna magics (or maybe they learned it as a hand me down from worshipping formerly Sarrukh/Aearee gods). If so, more carvings showing people who are snake or bird oriented in the deeper sections. I do LOVE the stone carvings that you depicted though.
If this is a former ba'etith stronghold, there may have been batrachi spellcasters here as well. Rather than having the link to the realm of madness or whatever coming from the priestess of Nula, what if it were batrachi in origin.
I like the idea that portions of it were held in the past by desert dwarves and they were kicked out.
On size... this is way too small, but it can work with minor modification. Its supposed to be some hidden secret city that is almost as spectacular as the city of the gods. What there basically should be is an overview map that shows all these interconnected caves, and you are exploring just ONE. Each one may be dedicated to a certain deity (or a few deities, etc...), and not necessarily the entire pantheon. Each may have been dedicated as well to a certain "faction" of the ba'etith (i.e. just because they were sharing doesn't mean that the birdfolk and the saurial folk and the amphibian folk wouldn't have their own places). What you present makes for the perfect size for a "portion on the outer edge" that was held by the dwarves. Therefore, much like we were talking about having the cursed city of Esh Alakar being a humongous dungeon, this place should be similar. There's only a few places listed in Maztican lore to be these "ancient storehouses of greatness", so when one is detailed, we should leave it open for a lot of expansion and/or improvements.
Oh, and on your llahamaga. When I look at it, I picture both a naga, but also a yuan-ti. Therefore, wherever you put in that area, I'd recommend tying in sarrukh influences (not necessarily sarrukh themselves mind you, but snake folk work, troglodytes, lizard folk, etc...).
As to what gods are here, it may be that the gods of Maztica, the scorpionfolk, the tabaxi, etc... can actually have their origins of being worshipped in Maztica here. There may be "gods" here that the Mazticans never took to worshipping, but earlier folk did. There may be "secrets" to the origins of the creation of certain races (scorpionfolk, tabaxi, or races found in Anchorome) that contradict their religion's origin story. There may be other religions found in other areas of Toril here that are forgotten elsewhere in Maztica (for instance, Lolth, Tiamat, Blibdoolpoolp, Kiga the Predator from Zakhara, Ragarra from Zakhara, Shajar from Zakhara, Camazotz, etc...). |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 23 Nov 2019 : 19:21:40
Yeah I put Sands of Itzcala in the product, brain fart for Tezca because I’m simultaneously updating an adventure I wrote in the House of Tezca and the wires got crossed lol.
I unfortunately boxed myself a bit with the date. In the Maztica Campaign Guide I have “the gift of pluma” being given to mankind circa -8100. When I wrote it, I had this occur that late because I didn’t want the Maztican empires of man to predate too many of the premier human empires in Faerun. I know it’s not “new” per se, but in my mind the heyday of advancements in pluma and hishna magic should be now - and if it had occurred back in the days of the Sarrukh or Aearee, I feared there wouldn’t be that sense. Not to mention mankind was mostly primitive in those ages.
Then I had Zaltec’s beheading of Maztica in -8060 which only gives a 40 year window for Olbi, with its sense of multiple gods being represented together (I wanted to institute a brief era of cooperation among priests and lay folk, if not the gods themselves). That’s how I dated Olbi.
Every time I write about Maztica, I feel like I am always looking for an excuse to explain away why Maztican magic was so weak compared to Faerun - something I consider the greatest error of the original setting. Perhaps I should get over it.
On another note, if I wanted to give Olbi more significance (like your idea of Tecco having found the statue there), I might also somehow tie Olbi’s attempt to advance pluma magic part of what “triggered” Zaltec so badly into attacking his mother.
I am very glad you brought up the tombs though, because I would’ve missed that portion. I’m going to have to figure out how they work into the narrative. Im thinking in the thousands of years of existence, some of the Dog People occupied it for a time (sealing away the monsters perhaps) and it is their tombs that can be found. Perhaps their destruction is finally what drove the Dog People to become so nomadic. Since then, they don’t really occupy enclosed spaces anymore. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 23 Nov 2019 : 17:13:57
Not Sands of Tezca…. Sands of Itzcala. The House of Tezca is the southern desert, and this is the northern desert actually in the Anchorome area. Mainly mentioning this for other scribes that may open their maps to try and recall where its at. I remembered the name and thinking to myself previously when I redrew that map "hey, what's this ruin".
Pulling up the original campaign set, this is what it had (its similar to what you posted before, but there are some wording differences that may change design):
Olbi
This is a ruin that even predates Tewahca. Though not so spectacular as the latter, it has secrets and mysteries of its own. (Like Tewahca, its location on the map is approximate.)
Olbi is a series of caves, the interiors of which show evidence of keen metal tools, or even magical shaping. They are clean and smooth sided, with a variety of stone statues carved right into the floor. These represent the gods of Maztica.
The treasures of Olbi are not so numerous as Tewahca's, but there are many significant examples of pluma, hishna, magical devices, and gold. These are located in concealed places within the ruins' secret passages, buried in tombs, etc. Typically, a treasure cannot be discovered without an equally significant creature or force protecting it.
So, before I read what you wrote, I'm picturing a place that's caverns, but SEPARATED caverns. So, one little grouping here, another there, maybe covering a large area. Its in a desert, so picturing the interior as dry, but perhaps there is an underground river that connects these various groupings of caverns (I got that idea from looking at Shade's idea of the mammoth caverns). This river, if it exists shouldn't be a raging one... thinking more of something maybe knee to waist deep and maybe just wide enough for a canoe and oars in certain areas (other areas may have broad, shallow lakes). The area has treasures of pluma and hishna and carvings of the Maztican pantheon, so strong ties to the people that existed BEFORE the humans that came along and picked up worship of this pantheon. This may ALSO be where the Maztican people came from. It also has tombs, so that means they were burying some race here for some reason.
So, the thoughts that come to my mind are that before the humans worshipped the Maztican deities, perhaps the Aearee and Sarrukh did. I say this because Pluma magic seems intrinsic to the Aearee, and hishna magic seems very "Sarrukh" like to me. Therefore, I'd say, perhaps this place dates even FURTHER back. If it predates Tewahca, it might be REALLY old.
Second.... Let's look at the original Maztican Campaign Guide and the origins of the Nexalans/Maztican people. It very much sounds like the ruins of Olbi in the Sands of Itzcala COULD be where Tecco went and saw a vision of Zaltec that sent their people south. If it is, this would somewhat imply that Olbi can be reached from a cave in the heights of a Parched Mountain range (to note, Olbi IS shown in the desert, but it's also shown butting up on some mountains, and its location is noted as approximate). If it is high up in the mountains, then perhaps there IS water flowing through here that's going into the underdark rather than the surrounding desert (and maybe this is what led to their being a city up here?). Also, if its true, then there should be a place where Tecco found the stone carving that appeared to him as Zaltec (and which he carried out, despite it being huge... possibly due to some feather magic making it light?).
The Tale of Origin
The Mazticans, from their very roots, worshipped one god, Zaltec, above all others. They praised the god of night and war with a passion that made all others pale in their faith for the vengeful deity. This worship dated back to the tribe's origins, in some nameless northern barren. Whether their surroundings were swamp or desert or bleak coastline is unknown; but there was little food, and much disease. It is a place they could have few desires to remember.
The Mazticans, though ruled by a series of war chiefs in these early days, placed great store in the tribal shamans, all of whom were devoted clerics of Zaltec. One of these, named Tecco, was once illuminated with a vision that came to him like a bright light shining through a moonless night.
The following day, Tecco ventured into the desert, wandering for a full year before he came upon a cave in the heights of a parched mountain range. Entering the cavern, which showed a regularity of construction indicating unnatural origins, the cleric found a great pillar of stone. Before Tecco's astounded eyes, the pillar melted and shifted, until the tribal shaman found himself staring at the bestial, imposing image of the warrior-god, Zaltec!
The statue stood taller than a man, though it had a human-like torso. In its right hand it clutched a stout maca, the stone-chip blade as sharp as obsidian. In its left it held a shield emblazoned with the face of a snarling jaguar. But though its form resembled humanity, the leering face proved the beast's immortal origins.
A wide mouth, studded with long, inward-curving fangs, opened in a drooling grin, and Tecco thought he would be devoured; the legends tell us that the devout cleric knew only joy at this moment. A long, shaggy mane fell from the god's head to encircle his shoulders, and the beastlike muzzle gave it a horrid aspect. Zaltec's eyes flashed like lightning, and Tecco felt the rumbling of thunder shake the cavern.
But the monstrous image did not devour the cleric. Instead, it spoke:
Faithful children of the god, go!
This place must be left in the halls of your past,
For a future ordained by Zaltec awaits.
Take your children by the hand, priest!
Lead them south toward the valley of your future, Where mighty destiny awaits.
Now my children claim the world, all!
From their island in they sun the send their armies, To gain the final glory for their god
After the god spoke his command, the living statue returned to stone, to a cold pillar of rock that only vaguely resembled the god in all its vital detail. Yet Tecco lifted the stone, though it was bigger than himself, and carried it with him as he returned to his village.
The priest retained the chant in exact, rhythmic precision, and it became the pre-history of his people. Faced by such a compelling destiny, the tribe immediately abandoned its barren homesite. Carrying seed grain, protected by a small but vigorous contingent of warriors, the Mazticans moved toward the south.
For many years they wandered. The exact time is unknown, but it is accepted that Tecco's grandson, Cattl, was the shaman of the tribe as they finally discovered the land of their destiny, the Valley of Nexal.
The whole of their efforts following Tecco's revelation have been directed toward the fulfilling of this prophecy. Throughout all the subsequent travels of the tribe, the shamans carried the stone with them, and worshipped it as the tangible evidence of their god.
So, back to brainstorming. Tombs, picturing possibly Sarrukh or yuan-ti or nagas buried here. Nagas probably work best, but yuan-ti sound good as well. Could also be bird folk, cat folk, scorpion folk, humans, etc...
Being also that its in the "sands of Itzcala", the idea that some scorpion men might have encountered these ruins in the past might be interesting. Perhaps they were even created by the beings that were here (if they were a creator race). Perhaps even a giant scorpion inhabits the ruins (Huoxopica ?). Also to note, the novel Star of Cursrah places "scorpionmen" in Faerun prior to the discovery of Maztica down in Calimshan... so the scorpionfolk may be pre-sundering.
Finally, given the imagery of Zaltec, I wouldn't be surprised if some of HIS original worshippers were cat folk of some sort (he's noted as having a mane in the above, so it could be jaguar folk, lion folk, etc... so tabaxi, rakasta, etc... or even things like Rakshasa, werelions, werejaguars, etc..).
That's my brainstorming before reading your stuff. Now let me delve. |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 23 Nov 2019 : 15:34:42
quote:
Originally posted by shades of eternity
K I'm game.
Looks relatively good so far.
When in doubt, use the statues as means of opening/closing sections by placing gems/pulling on limbs/twisting on a pedestal.
as for ideas, what I'm seeing conceptually is something like mammoth caves.
https://mammothcave.com/
There are a few stories from the area that might be able to mix in, such as when they turned the cave into a place to help with healing.
Hope that helps. :)
I didn’t think of doing that, but it’s a good idea. I worked out a creature called the llahamaga as the big bad. A result of the Far Realm interacting with Mazticas spirit Realm. I think the statues could be what keeps it back from escaping into the outside world.
Here’s the creature, btw. The artist has given me his blessing for using it.
https://www.deviantart.com/pyramiddhead/art/Curse-Of-The-Lahamaga-351858209
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| shades of eternity |
Posted - 23 Nov 2019 : 10:50:48
K I'm game.
Looks relatively good so far.
When in doubt, use the statues as means of opening/closing sections by placing gems/pulling on limbs/twisting on a pedestal.
as for ideas, what I'm seeing conceptually is something like mammoth caves.
https://mammothcave.com/
There are a few stories from the area that might be able to mix in, such as when they turned the cave into a place to help with healing.
Hope that helps. :)
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