| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 11 Oct 2019 : 08:56:45
Next project is going to be ruathym I think (and gundarlun, tuern, and the other little islands off the northern sword coast).
So I'm asking you wonderful scribes for all spurious mentions that you can find in any sourcebook or article (even fanon is fine with me, they are a great source of npc names), as well as any novels (It would appear i have to read them to get much needed flesh on the bones of these outlying areas).
A few things I've noted in my research thus far is that the migration pattern of northmen to the island is really messed up, with at least 3 separate migration routes and times to the island.
Another is that there are an awful lot of scribes and sages on ruathym even though it is supposed to be a brutal and warlike society.
Halflings in Holgerstead ??????
At least three mentions of the word Green when describing separate landmarks or npcs.
That's it for now. Much appreciation in advance for any sources you can point me to (I think I've found most, but there are always a few non ocr articles I miss). |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 28 Oct 2019 : 21:20:23
I never had a reason to use one and then I realized it was perfect. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 28 Oct 2019 : 20:59:16
Wow, a spirit of the land is ass kickingly hard, there isnt much going to get past one of them. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 28 Oct 2019 : 06:25:46
Well the rune carving bit is definitely magic and I chose to associate it with weave anchors (like the nether scrolls) so someone made this tree a weave anchor at some point in its history, I'm guessing while it was still alive, probably the sarrukh baetith.
And when it comes to the portal bit, I was thinking more along the lines of, something beats the first line of defence (spirit of the land) of the arakhora, perhaps they manage to avoid the arakhora smacking them to bits (ala whomping willow), they get beneath the tree to its roots where whatever it is protecting lies and it randomly opens a portal for a split second beneath the feet of an intruder and chucks them into some random place on the planes. Maybe it can only do this once every so often, but it would still be difficult to avoid and very effective (and explains the presence of portals near so many of these dead trees.
Of course it could be a bit more complicated and perhaps you have to accidentally touch a root to trigger a portal. Hellgate Keep and its energy fallout corrupted that in the grandfather tree and opened up a portal to the nine hells. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 27 Oct 2019 : 22:27:05
Hmmm, I hadn't really thought about grandfather tree being a portal nexus, but yeah, I guess it would fit. I also like Eric's assumption that it works like a spirit of the land from the 3e monster manual 2. It might be interesting if it could give the woodling template to any being that does something …. maybe since Yggdrasil's Child is about runes being put on it, maybe if someone carves their name in its trunk they can take on the woodling template (carving their name requiring some special tools, possibly attuned to them via some odd process).
On the idea of their having been a similar tree on the unicorn run that was cut down.... maybe this wood was used by Netherese in construction of portals and other magic items. A similar tree down in the Yuirwood makes sense to me as well, given that there are known to be gates there as well (via their menhir circles, but perhaps these circles are drawing upon the power of a hidden tree). Maybe another down near durpar/Ulgarth in the Ajmer Forest which might explain the Viking type influences in said area (i.e. norse temples nearby, Ulgarth nearby and maybe the "northmen" that came down to the Utter East were pursuing rumors of some sort tied to a tree similar to the one in Ruathym). In fact, if there was a tree in the Ajmer and it had been harvested from and used to construct the portal that the Arkaiun came through and the portal in Shandalaur in Ashanath that the Rus came through... maybe that can fit with its malfunctioning. The people that inhabit Ulgarth are probably at least partly drawn from the Illuskan bloodlines that came through and were raiding Mulhorand for a while as well. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 27 Oct 2019 : 21:42:57
I shall look that up tomorrow. My initial thought is, is that power enough to defend whatever they were placed atop from whoever's might be seeking it. If the answer is no then that should be just the first of many abilities an arakhora possess. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 27 Oct 2019 : 19:35:17
As for how they work, look at spirit of the land in MM2, page 189. The way I wrote it up is that the Grandfather Tree can create an advanced 60 HD spirit of the land at will (one at a time).
|
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 27 Oct 2019 : 17:58:32
Keep the contradictions in. As long as its preceded by an ambiguous inference then it's not a definitive truth and you can say what you like. I often precede deliberately incorrect statements with "sages believe" and then print the truth later so that skim readers get one version that is only partly true and dedicated fans get the whole truth later (I loved the revelations hidden in the old 2e books and have tried to imitate that).
Good stuff on the arakhor by the way, it makes an already hotly anticipated project even more exciting.
|
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 27 Oct 2019 : 17:41:42
This is what I have for a sidebar in Crown of Eaerlann. Note, I'm still debating whether to keep the language around the Host Tower or not. Arguably it contradicts existing lore.
===
Arakhora
“Arakhor” is an Elven term that translates loosely as "one who protects the forest," or "tree warden." Akin in some respects to nature elementals, the arakhora drew life, energy, and intelligence from the forest in which they dwelt and gave back a forest's energy by serving as a caretaker and guardian. Writings preserved from the height of Aryvandaar by the church of Labelas Enoreth suggest that the arakhora were a form of elder treant, perhaps the progenitors of the treant race in its modern form. The last known living arakhor is the Grandfather Tree, located in the northwestern reaches of the High Forest. Aside from the arakhor stump on the western bank of the Unicorn Run, the only other known arakhor, living or dead, is the petrified arakhor that has been transformed into the Hostower of the Arcane in Luskan. (Other sources indicate that it is nothing of the sort, but is a dwarf-built edifice.) The legendary giant king, Tark of Thundercloud Keep, is said to have felled the arakhor by the Unicorn Run after his cloud castle got tangled in the arakhor’s upper branches.
=== |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 27 Oct 2019 : 17:17:20
As for yggdrasils child. I don't intend to link the two trees at all as I don't really bother with planescape lore.
However, I think it has yet to be determined what an arakhor really is. I know they are enormous trees with an extra planar origin, and I know they are used as guardians by the creator races and the elves.
I don't really get how a huge tree can function as a guardian, they aren't exactly known for mobility or offensive weapons.
So what if the enormous trees defend their charge using a rather unique defence mechanism. What if they open one way portals to far off planes whenever anyone disturbs them.
We know the grandfather tree has portals to help beneath it (or had), they could have become two way portals when the energies of holgate keep corrupted it. Yggdrasils child presumably had some portal like abilities (otherwise why make the link, there are lots of big trees on faerun).
Just a thought. I imagine the faeree created the first arakhora (I picture it being grown more than created), the eladrin are know for planar wanderings, the seldarine also got around a lot (and they were fey). Is it not possibly that yggdrasil and these arakhora share an ancient common origin and creator, thus making them very distant cousins. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 27 Oct 2019 : 13:58:56
Excellent news.
Interesting to note the arkauins migrated a few decades after the Rus, makes the Shattering even more likely to be just before 0 dr |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 27 Oct 2019 : 12:44:41
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
I think you and George may have added a few dates in there, or I am misremembering my GHoTR.
My bad about the founding date. The north-south migration in a sourcebook probably founded ruathym first. Then the land migration detailed by Ed in his thread probably founded illusk and kept going to ruathym. Then George's south to north migration could have come at an earlier or later date (it was a lot longer).
I'm glad I didn't miss any other dates though, I still see no activity from ruathym until a few thousand years later to settle the nearby islands which definitely needs a reason to justify the isolation and inactivity of a bunch of supposed seafaring nomads.
I'm on it!
-- George Krashos |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 27 Oct 2019 : 08:42:29
I think you and George may have added a few dates in there, or I am misremembering my GHoTR.
My bad about the founding date. The north-south migration in a sourcebook probably founded ruathym first. Then the land migration detailed by Ed in his thread probably founded illusk and kept going to ruathym. Then George's south to north migration could have come at an earlier or later date (it was a lot longer).
I'm glad I didn't miss any other dates though, I still see no activity from ruathym until a few thousand years later to settle the nearby islands which definitely needs a reason to justify the isolation and inactivity of a bunch of supposed seafaring nomads. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 26 Oct 2019 : 23:02:07
Regarding Yggdrasil's Child being on Ruathym, one of the things I proposed in the "Brainstorming Anchorome" thread was the idea that there are multiple "offspring of Yggdrasil" on Toril, but most of them are actually in Anchorome's northern forests or in other "northmen" communities. It occurs to me that one of the places I wanted to put one of these was in an area with the size tiny Kercpa "squirrel folk", who have a legend of Rititisk the Clever (which mirrors Ratatosk the squirrel that lives in the world tree). Anyway, why do I bring this up? What if Rititisk tasked the kercpa races of Toril to plant "seeds" of the world ash over Toril, creating a system of "treegates". Also, perhaps some of these trees became "awakened" and attained deific status (Relkath of the Infinite Branches for instance). Perhaps some of these trees were chopped down and their wood used in the construction of portals... portals which have since started to malfunction as the wood becomes more and more brittle from death.
If we accept this idea as a truism, I'm picturing there being a powerful kercpa druid who has learned to wildshape into human form who protects the tree, and who keeps tabs on movement all over the isle via his chittering kercpa allies (a relatively small tribe) who have picked up some abilities to be able to talk to birds, rodents, and draconic (a blessing from Rititisk who delivers insults between the eagle at the top of the world tree and the dragon gnawing on its roots).
This druid may or may not have
A) a wood woad friend named Yggdroot with a very simple vocabulary
and/or
B) a Shatjan sorcerer friend, named Beuhlwenkil Dvalinnson with a hat of tricks that he's known to pull dire jackalopes, al-mi'raj, miniature giant space hamsters, and lions from. This Shatjan claims its magical bloodline by being birthed upon a Ruathym born female who used the magic of the tree to travel to the world tree itself to beg the gods for a child, whereupon she met a great and majestic stag named Dvalinn who touched her with its antlers and she found herself no longer barren. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 26 Oct 2019 : 22:43:36
quote:
Originally posted by BadLuckBugbear
Rus?
Are those people from Earth, then? Some of Rurik's Norse followers gone astray or men from Kievan Rus, Novgorod, Muscovy?
Or is this just a case of coincidence?
Or is Kievan Rus' forefathers from the realms, dumped there unceremoniously by a malfunctioning portal. They may have remembered traversing a "rainbow bridge", etc... and thus their ancient stories of magic have a basis in truth.
|
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 26 Oct 2019 : 22:39:38
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
So ive been wondering about a few things.
-3000 DR the illuskans discover Ruathym
I don't think this is quite right. These are the key dates from GHotR.
–4974 DR: The coastal dwarf realm of Haunghdannar [–3389] is established along the northern Sword Coast.
c. –4600 DR: The stone fortress of Sonnmorndin is built as a naval base by the Sailors of the Mountainous Waves, the marines of Haunghdannar, on the island of Arauwurbarak (present-day Ruathym).
-3389 DR: The dwarf realm of Haunghdannar falls. The sea is thought to have driven the dwarves of Haunghdannar mad; the realm rapidly dwindled as ship after ship that put out did not return, except for small fishing boats that never left the sight of land. The land was overrun by bugbears, trolls, ogres and orcs.
c. –3100 DR: Human seafarers from the west name and settle the island of Ruathym in the Sea of Swords.
-3000 DR: Illuskan humans of Ruathym found the settlement of Illusk at the mouth of the River Mirar and displace local Ice Hunter tribes.
–2368 DR: The Terraseer establishes Quesseer north of the Sword Mountains. The settlement becomes a trademeet for Netherese expatriates, the elves of Illefarn, the seafarers of Illusk, the nomadic Ice Hunters, and the dwarves of fallen Haunghdannar.
-2207 DR: Jeriah Chronos, later known as the Chronomancer, is born in Netheril.
-2103 DR: A horde of orcs from the Spine of the World, led by giants and their ogre generals, crushes the human civilization of Illusk despite aid from Netherese arcanists led by Jeriah Chronos the Chronomancer.
-2100 DR: Survivors of Illusk travel to Icewind Dale, where their descendants become the Reghedmen.
-2095 DR: After refusing divine healing for the injuries he sustained in the defense of Illusk, the Chronomancer dies. The Netherese enclave of Quesseer is abandoned.
-425 DR: Netherese settlers refound Illusk as a magocracy. The ruling group of arcanists, known as the Grand Cabal, names Fynran the Flamelord as high arcanist and ruler.
-354 DR: The arcanist Melathlar flees Netheril and travels to Illusk. Fearing phaerimm assaults, he sacrifices his life to power a mighty work of the Art that raises the great stone Host Tower, walls, and powerful spellwards around this fledgling settlement.
-350 DR: The Netherese migration to Illusk reaches its peak as settlers from many towns in Low Netheril travel west to escape the depredations of the phaerimms.
-335 DR: The arcanist Maerin of Illusk commissions Immar Fardelver and many other artisans of Delzoun to begin construction of the great subterranean city of Gauntlgrym in the Crags, to the east of Illusk.
-330 DR: The Bey of Runlatha dies near Delzoun’s western border while battling the nalfeshnee Zukothoth. The Runlathan refugees fragment into loosely allied family groups and revert to a primitive way of life. These groups become the precursors of the Uthgardt tribes of the modern era.
-321 DR: Gauntlgrym is completed by the dwarves of Delzoun in this year, and the arcanist Maerin of Illusk welcomes humans from Illusk, Netherese refugees from Runlatha and Sundabar who have made the long trek west, and dwarves of Clan Goldspire of Delzoun to live in the city.
-111 DR: The Orc Marches: The entire North erupts as great orc hordes stream south from the Spine of the World and the Ice Mountains to lay waste to all in their path. Illusk and Gauntlgrym fall to this onslaught, and Delzoun is devastated by countless orc assaults. Most of Illusk’s population manages to escape by sea or by magic and is spared. The elves of Iliyanbruen, Rilithar, Siluvanede, and Eaerlann unite to shatter the strength of the orcs and halt their rampage south into the High Forest and Dessarin Valley.
-108 DR: Humans displaced by the Orc Marches rebuild and resettle Illusk. The city again operates as a magocracy under the Grand Cabal.
-105 DR: An Illuskan tribe known as the Rus arrives in eastern Faeru#770;n by means of a malfunctioning portal that deposited them on the eastern shore of Lake Ashane. Although quickly integrated into the native Rashemi population, the Rus were powerful berserkers who sparked an insurrection among the native Rashemi against the court of Eltab. The arrival of the Rus coincided with the emergence of the Witches of Rashemen, a secret sisterhood formed in the dying days of Raumathar to preserve that empire’s magical lore.
-69 DR: An Illuskan tribe from the island of Ruathym travels through a portal to the Council Hills in the Eastern Shaar. Over time, the Illuskans mingle and join with the Arkaiuns who fled the fall of fabled Shandaular, capital of Ashanath, in the lands west of Rashemen centuries before. In time, this mingling of people leads to the establishment of the realm of Dambrath in the Shining South.
-50 DR: Illuskans from Ruathym settle at the mouth of the River Delimbiyr, founding the city of Tavaray.
-15 DR: Gripped by the imperial urge, the leaders of Illusk [–108, –10] expand their nation southward and eastward.
-12 DR: The elves of Iliyanbruen resist further Illuskan expansion in the south.
-10 DR: Led by Lord Halueth Never, the elves defeat Illusk, although skirmishing persists.
-4 DR: The elves of Iliyanbruen and the humans of Illusk make peace, setting the River Mirar as the boundary between their kingdoms.
52 DR: Illuskans begin farming the plateau above Deepwater Harbor, and for two and a half centuries their rule of the area is uncontested.
95 DR: Ruathens, led by Uthgar Gardolfsson, sack Illusk. The Grand Cabal retreats to the Host Tower, abandoning the city to the raiders. The Illuskans eventually burn the invaders’ ships and drive Uthgar and his followers into the interior.
96 DR: Stefan Blackspear becomes Highlord of Illusk and exiles wizards from his city-state.
100 DR: The followers of Uthgar join with other nomadic humans descended from the group of Netherese who followed the Bey of Runlatha and scattered across the North after his death.
123 DR: Uthgar dies from wounds received in battle with Gurt, Lord of the Pale Giants, at the present-day site of Morgur’s Mound. His nomad human followers call themselves the Uthgardt [100, 153] in his honor and form tribes based on the beast spirits he was said to have tamed in his lifetime.
141 DR: Gauntlgrym is resettled with aid from Highlord Narandos of Illusk.
152 DR: The orcs of the Severed Hand tribe capture Illusk and rename it Argrock.
153 DR: Illithids from the Underdark and their lycanthropic thralls conquer Gauntlgrym. A few survivors escape and are taken in by a tribe of Uthgardt barbarians.
191 DR: The realm of Yarlith is formed north of Uthtower and south of Eigersstor to prevent dynastic squabbling between the twin heirs to the throne of Uthtower.
205 DR: Settlers from Uthtower, Yarlith, and the Mlembryn lands recolonize Illusk. Taman Steeldrake becomes Grand Prince of Illusk.
256 DR: The Ffolk of the Moonshaes concede the northern isles to Illuskan invaders from the island nations of Tuern and Gundarlun.
306 DR: The kingdom of Grimmantle in the Mlembryn lands falls to the Thousand Fangs orc horde, which then assails Illusk and Neverwinter. The horde is eventually blunted and scattered by a mercenary army led by Grauth Mharabbath, “the Knight of Many Battles.”
576 DR: The Red Pony and Golden Eagle Uthgardt tribes vanish into the Underdark after discovering a passage beneath the One Stone ancestor mound.
568 DR: The armies of Phalorm defend the neighboring realm of Yarlith from attacks by orcs led by the frost giant Horthgar.
611 DR: The rampaging orcs of the Everhorde erupt from the Spine of the World, engulfing the North in war. Illusk and Yarlith are left in ruins, but the Host Tower survives. Neverwinter survives, thanks to the aid of Palarandusk the Sun Dragon.
673 DR: An alliance of mages called the Covenant [705] is founded to promote peace among the human kingdoms of the North and prepare them for future conflicts with the orcs. The architects of the organization are Ilyykur [457, 1063], Aganazzar [457, 1081], Presper [457, 1101], and Grimwald [457, 1101], hereafter known as the Four Founders.
705 DR: The mages of the Covenant begin to secretly manipulate and influence the Uthgardt tribes of the North through their Art. By season’s end, the tribes stand united against the goblinkind of the Savage Frontier.
715 DR: At the whispered request of the Covenant [705, 797], the Uthgardt [705, 753] begin hunting down and slaying orc chieftains, killing a score of them over the next five years. Their action prevents the formation of another orc horde.
753 DR:The Goblin Wars: Mirabar is overrun and plundered by goblin hordes that stream south out of the Valley of Khedrun. Their numbers are thinned by the savage ferocity of the Uthgardt tribes who battle them day and night for the better part of a season before the goblins are eventually annihilated by the Covenant-whelmed humans of the Dessarin Valley.
775 DR: The Uthgardt alliance defeats an ogre-led army of orcs and goblins that emerges from the Evermoors. The warriors of the Elk tribe fall almost to a man in the defense of Flintrock. On the verge of extinction, these once- proud people become little better than bandits.
797-802 DR: The Uthgardt Alliance, backed by the hidden hand of the Covenant, fades away as the tribes begin to feel the loss of their warriors.
806 DR: The realm of Stornanter is established in the North with Laeral the Witch- Queen as its ruler and Port Llast as its capital. Realizing the importance and strategic location of ruined Illusk, Laeral sees to the rebuilding and resettling of this city. After personally exploring the Host Tower and encountering the lich survivors of the Grand Cabal, Laeral erects magical barriers around the structure to bar entry.
812 DR: Illusk s largely rebuilt by this year and construction begins on its defensive walls. Trade from the mines of Mirabar soon brings great prosperity to both Illusk and Stornanter.
841 DR: Laeral the Witch-Queen of the North unknowingly comes into conflict with her sister Sylune#769;.. The goddess Mystra appears to both of
them and offers them the mantle of Chosen. They both leave Faeru#770;n for a time to travel the planes, and the departure of Laeral sees the swift collapse of Stornanter, as greedy nobles attempt to seize power for themselves.
842 DR: Duke Daragos Wolfstar of Stornanter becomes Lord of Illusk.
875 DR :Illusk repels attacks by Uthgardt [797, 1368] barbarians.
955 DR:
957 DR:
1023 DR: Grand Prince Galnorn of Illusk fails to conquer Mirabar.
1046 DR: An Illuskan garrison is sent to the Ice Lakes to rid the area of kobolds but is forced to retreat.
1063 DR: Ilyykur [673], one of the Four Founders of the Covenant [976, 1081], is slain in a great spellbattle with the archlich Ruelve, a senior Covenant member who has gone insane. The battle takes place on a cluster of islands known as Thulnath’s Eyes southwest of Ruathym.
1064 DR: The wizard Melaeth Ashstaff of Neverwinter slays a doppelganger posing as Grand Prince Galnorn, the age-old ruler of Illusk. Corigan Aveldon of the fallen realm of Stornanter becomes Lord of Illusk.
1244 DR: After a nine-year siege, Illusk finally falls to the orcs of the Bloody Tusks tribe. The orcs reside in ruined Illusk, using it as a secure base from which to raid nearby human settlements.
1276 DR: Duergar from Gracklstugh establish an outpost beneath Illusk to probe the underground defenses of Mirabar.
1301 DR: A mercenary army sponsored by merchant interests in Waterdeep and Neverwinter rides against orc-ridden Illusk.
1302 DR: Illusk is retaken and rebuilt with aid from Neverwinter, then renamed Luskan. Duergar beneath Illusk retreat to the Underdark.
1311 DR: The mage Arklem Greeth comes to Luskan and bypasses the ancient magic wards that Laeral Silverhand placed around the Host Tower. He forms the Brotherhood of the Arcane with the aid of the Old Ones—powerful liches who were once members of the legendary Grand Cabal of Illusk. Arklem names himself Archmage Arcane of the Brotherhood.
1356 DR: Ruathym [–69, 1357] attacks and sinks a Luskanite caravel after persons unknown (at the time) stole the Tome of the Unicorn from the Green Library. Luskan responds by destroying much of Ruathym’s fleet and invades the island itself. After months of fighting, Ruathym’s defenders drive the High Captains of Luskan back to their ships.
1357 DR: The forces of Luskan attack Ruathym, successfully plundering much of the island and sinking that realm’s ships. They establish a presence there and subjugate the local population and shipping. Aumark Lithyl, a Knight of Myth Drannor, leads the fight against the invaders.
The Tome of the Unicorn is stolen from the Green Rooms of Ruathym by Shond Tharovin, a Calishite wizard. Unlike those who preceded him, Shond manages to both summon Shoon’s skull from the Tome and communicate with the spirit of the former qysar, Shoon VII.
Waterdeep negotiates a truce between Ruathym and Luskan, but it backfires when Luskan, Ruathym, Tuern, and the Whalebones forge an alliance to raid settlements along the Sword Coast.
1358 DR: The Lords’ Alliance of Waterdeep expels Luskan’s forces from Ruathym by applying combined diplomatic and military pressure. Luskan and the allied island realms of the Trackless Sea join to form the Captain’s Confederation. Ruathym becomes a battleground for the deities Clangeddin Silverbeard and Labelas Enoreth when their avatars confront each other.
1361 DR: Waterdeep, along with the rest of the Lords’ Alliance, is forced to threaten war when Luskan once again conquers Ruathym to the west.
|
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 26 Oct 2019 : 19:48:22
The Leviathan from Elder Evils is an easy fix for the Dendar legend being present way up north with the illuskans (it's a sleeping sea monster about 100 miles long and when it wakes up it will destroy the world - sounds a lot like dendar, and the northmen could easily have named it nidhogg).
|
| Baltas |
Posted - 26 Oct 2019 : 19:45:46
Yeah, I also think it's meant to be a parallel development.
With Yggdrasil's child, indeed in "Volo's Guide to All Things Magical" by Ed and Eric L. Boyd, state Ygggdrasil's Child, is literally an offspring of the World Tree:
quote:
The Windwalker will crumble to dust upon the death of
Yggdrasil's Child (or it's parent tree - an event which will occur
at the end of time).
Then again, this is an in-universe text by Volo, and he might base it on legends.
It's also notable that it states the Rus, and possibly Ancient Illuskans in general, identified Dendar with Nidhoggr.
quote:
The Windwalker can be crushed in the jaws of Dendar the Night Serpent (known to the Rus as Nidhogg, the serpent who gnaws on
the roots of Yggdrasil).
I don't say Dendar is Nidhoggr, but I think the Rus (and possibly all early Illuskans), conflated them. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 26 Oct 2019 : 17:45:13
I don't doubt that at least in some stage of their development they were meant to draw parallels with the Rus tribes in the real world. I make no such link myself, they are simply a nomadic tribe of Norse like people that came to faerun from elsewhere |
| BadLuckBugbear |
Posted - 26 Oct 2019 : 01:54:44
Rus?
Are those people from Earth, then? Some of Rurik's Norse followers gone astray or men from Kievan Rus, Novgorod, Muscovy?
Or is this just a case of coincidence?
|
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 25 Oct 2019 : 21:56:15
I realise I rambled a lot so here is the short version
Northmen tribes migrate to ruathym, one found illusk on the way (forcing out the ice hunter). Glaciers prevent northmen from leaving ruathym for a long time. Illusk is annihilated by orcs and refunded by netherese.
Ice melts, illuskan tribe gains supremacy. Other northmen tribe begin to leave ruathym in a migration event known as the shattering.
Rus head to whalebones, others head to turn, Gundarlun, mintarn, etc.
Illuskans return to mainland and find netherese in their ancestral city of illusk and attack it. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 25 Oct 2019 : 21:41:06
True, but humans are naturally lazy and always take the path of least resistance, and 10000 miles of ocean isn't the easy way. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 25 Oct 2019 : 21:36:36
Maybe they spent 2000 years raiding in a westerly direction ... just saying.
— George Krashos |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 25 Oct 2019 : 21:27:22
My last thought is -1000 DR, the northmen start colonising Tuern, Gundarlun, Whalebones, Mintarn, etc.
First of all, such generalised dates pose nothing but problems in realmslore. Most people tend to take the dates as an absolute (ie -1001 they were all on Ruathym, -1000 they are on all the islands), when the truth is usually more of a measured scale.
Secondly these generalised dates tend to be way off.
So what if by -1000 DR the seas around Ruathym are ice free and the northmen begin sailing and discovering other islands but it is not until much later (the original quote says "For the next few centuries", what if it was as many as 8 or 9 centuries) that colonies actually appear on other islands.
My thought is -105 DR the Rus move from Ruathym to Rashemen.
95 DR Uthgar sacks netherese illusk.
What if the migration of the Rus is as a result of the Shattering and one of many migrations. The illuskan tribe grows too powerful and forces many of the other northmen tribes to leave Ruathym (they leave or are subjugated, not all leave, some stay and become one of the 4 jarldoms on Ruathym). They head to Tuern (the Turr), Gundarlun (the Darr), the Whalebones, Mintarn (the Intar - sounds like the fortress near Ruathym), led by an infamous northman explorer who would become revered.
This Shattering probably begins around -300 to -200 DR, and ends by around 0 DR.
Once Ruathym is majority illusk, then they spread out and begin to reconquer their homelands. First is Illusk. Oddly enough Illusk is owned by seafarers (implied northmen) in -2368 DR, long before Ruathym begins to colonise other lands. If the illuskans came from the land they could have founded Illusk on the shore of the Sword Coast before they then sailed to Ruathym, then when they lost contact because of glaciers they could have returned to find out the Netherese now lived there (that would really tick them off).
Just a series of thoughts about Ruathym and its migration pattern and trying to weave in a bit of lore about Valkur (yes it says he was from Mintarn, but what if that is just where he ended up colonising).
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| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 25 Oct 2019 : 20:55:56
1) Exploring the first idea. Were the northlanders so small in number that they had no need to spread out, nor could they spare the men to do so.
The northmen migrated to Ruathym in at least 3 separate migrations. One group coming south from the northern seas. Another group heading north from calimshan. A third appearing inland and heading west toward the Sword Coast (i reckon these are the illuskans).
They are nomadic tribal groups. The settle an area, deplete it of resources, attack everything around them (because they are aggressive), and then move on when things get too problematic.
They migrate to Ruathym beginning -3000 DR onwards, but numbers are very low (due to them attacking everything along the way) and it take an age or two to recover.
When finally their numbers grow too large for the island they expand outwards in a series of migrations known as the Shattering (a religious festival i found that i think fits quite well with the northmen lore).
2) The northmen were enslaved by another race already on the island of Ruathym and it took a long time for them to shake off their shackles. Tuern is home to fire giants and red dragons (supposedly imprisoned their by inferno), it is possible that Frost Giants or Stone Giants haunt Ruathym and ruled it.
Against this theory is the fact that dwarves lived on the island a thousand years earlier, and they would not get on with giants.
Perhaps the northmen were enslaved by whatever made the dwarves made, and then they later conquered that presumably magical enslavement.
3) The northlanders were happy and didnt want to leave. Unlikely given the harsh environment of Ruathym. It doesnt have a lot of resources, the weather is awful.
4 and 5) The northlanders lost the ability to sail and or climate prevented them from leaving Ruathym.
One possibility is that the northmen didnt leave Ruathym because they couldnt. The climate for the north is a bit of a mess (thanks to the -2550 DR in GHoTR, i still maintain it should be -25500 DR), but in the modern age there are glaciers floating around Tuern.
The High Ice in Netheril covered the majority of the Narrow Sea every year until the Netherese stopped it by building Mythallars along its edge (i pegged that to about -2880 DR).
-2550 DR onwards the Great Glacier expands to cover Vaasa and Damara.
So it is entirely possible that the northmen tribes did not sail to Ruathym, but walked across the ice (there is a huge horn that belonged to Uthgars brother Morgred which came from huge white mammoths that once roamed the north). If they did sail to Ruathym then its equally possible that glaciers prevented them from sailing away. Tuern is volcanic, Ruathym is mountainous, i expect all the islands are a little bit warmed by volcanic activity and sheltered by the mountains, making them perfect places to settle in ice age conditions.
Then around -2475 DR the elves of Larlotha work magic to limit the expansion of the Great Glacier and perhaps the ice started to thaw across the north. Eventually the seas become ice free and the northmen are able to start sailing once more, but they have to relearn it. It takes them 2000 years before they are able to leave and discover other islands.
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| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 25 Oct 2019 : 20:51:40
So ive been wondering about a few things.
-3000 DR the illuskans discover Ruathym
-1000 DR: For the next few centuries, the Illuskans of Ruathym colonize the Gull Rocks, Gundarlun, Mintarn, the Purple Rocks, the Teeth, Tuern (a.k.a., Uttersea), Umukek, the Wave Rocks, and the Whalebones. In time these Illuskan seafarers become known as the Northmen. Thinking them cursed, the Northmen stay clear of the Moonshae Isles and its mischievous fey inhabitants.
So why did it take over 2000 years for them to colonise other islands.
Were the northlanders so small in number that they had no need to spread out, nor could they spare the men to do so.
Were the northlanders enslaved to another group that they finally overthrew.
Were the northlanders so happy on their island that they saw no reason to leave it.
Did the northlanders somehow lose the ability to build ships and sail.
Were the northlanders prevented from sailing by the climate at the time.
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| George Krashos |
Posted - 16 Oct 2019 : 00:39:45
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
I suspect you and George may already have an idea on this though. Haugnadar has always been intriguing as to why they went a few rocks short of a pile crazy.
Oh we'll get there. Never fear.
-- George Krashos |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 15 Oct 2019 : 14:11:48
I'm certain the madbeards were involved here but I'm not certain they built inthar (maybe repaired it). If I recall correctly haugnadar (cant even begin to spell that from memory) was founded by dwarves from another kingdom (like all dwarven kingdoms) and so ultimately they were landlubbers at the start. They may have developed seafaring skills although I'm not sure if this was pre or post madness (ie did they go mad and then find the ruins or did they find the ruins and go mad).
Building in the middle of the ocean is not a simple task, especially oceans that are frequently violent like the trackless sea. Huge swells can smash into small islands with frightening regularity and just getting supplies to an island like that would be a monumental task, never mind building something.
That's kind of why I think the dwarves went a sailing and found these ruins and rebuilt them (easier to rebuild a fortress than start from scratch, at least the foundations are there and offer some shelter), and it was their rebuilding and excavating that uncovered the thing that made them madbeards.
I suspect you and George may already have an idea on this though. Haugnadar has always been intriguing as to why they went a few rocks short of a pile crazy. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 15 Oct 2019 : 13:52:38
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Dwarves could possibly do it but the sea is not their natural setting ...
Just to play devil's advocate, why not the Madbeards of Haunghdannar? " ... ship after ship that put out did not return ..."
Maybe they were headed to a portal ... |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 15 Oct 2019 : 13:34:46
Very true, and they would probably be interested in studying the roots of the tree if one were to thrust up in that particular location. Baetith stronghold it is. No reason it cant be a prison now after the baetith abandoned it and their living experiments were left behind. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 15 Oct 2019 : 12:17:57
If it's a Ba'etith stronghold, then being isolated from other Creator Race settlements would be appropriate.
-- George Krashos |
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