| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Fineva |
Posted - 16 Jan 2018 : 01:50:56
I'm curious where I can find references to the dragon masks. There was a small blurb over on d&d sites. Apparently they aren't a new thing, but does candlekeep have records?
Artus Cimber and the ring of winter. Artus is a chosen of Auril, only because he has the ring? Or what? Seems to be a guy who doesn't love his god if that's the case
Thanks for any information. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 20:29:25
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I would say that that 'power' can only manifest if someone had all the artifacts of the Regalia of Winter, and had to be of at least demi-power status (so a Chosen COULD do it, if they got their hands on the other Winter items).
To me its more interesting if activation of this kind of power requires some action. A huge quests that makes everything come together just right.
One of the (very few) things I liked about the Blackstaff novel was they had a major magical effect that required everything to be just right and took literally centuries of precise planning and manipulation.
There was a book some time back that kind of touched on this idea (badly, but you know) calling such things Legacy items. Special actions are required to allow the item to realize its potential.
Presumably, all the precise planning and such has been done by Auril. She just needs the ring-wearer to fulfill the proper actions to set it all into motion. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 20:01:06
Stormscepter |
| Markustay |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 19:16:17
I would say that that 'power' can only manifest if someone had all the artifacts of the Regalia of Winter, and had to be of at least demi-power status (so a Chosen COULD do it, if they got their hands on the other Winter items).
There really should be a scepter of some kind. I like scepters. Then we can just say Auril always had the scepter. Lets see, Ring of Winter, Ice Necklace, Frost Crown... Snow Scepter? Sounds a bit silly. Not really 'menacing', know what I mean? Snowflake Scepter sounds MUCH worse. I don't even want to GO THERE. 
EDIT:
'Hoar Scepter' sounds like a different kind of item entirely. 
'Rime Scepter' sounds cool (and menacing), but its really just the same word as 'frost'.
Speaking of Hoar, I wouldn't mind saying Auril and him have something going on in 5e. Maybe he is helping to 'redeem' her (he's not really about 'being good' either, so it makes some sense). Maybe its just me, but I always thought having a character named 'Hoar' and NOT connecting him to cold was such a waste. |
| Bakra |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 18:50:20
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
The second reveal is in the right hands it can bring a global winter.
The Ring has always had this legendary power. In one source it says that doing this would exhaust the ring and it would be destroyed.
Yes I know. I thought some people were questioning about whether or not the 5E version could still do this; because it appears to be underpowered compared to the previous version. Even in the ‘other properties’ description from ToA it was considered a rumor. The new lore trumps the old lore..etc…etc..the ring can only be used for good, now it is chaotic evil. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 09:05:57
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
However, I did find something else not related (I think) in the Wiki entry - the folk of the Great Glacier call her Saukuruk - isn't that oddly close to 'Sarrukh'? 
Nah - go read the great glacier book, basically every word sounds kinda like that. I think it was an attempt at making a guttural language. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 09:03:00
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
The second reveal is in the right hands it can bring a global winter.
The Ring has always had this legendary power. In one source it says that doing this would exhaust the ring and it would be destroyed. |
| Fineva |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 06:42:36
You are all wonderful! I'm so glad I asked here, the insights...!
Here's another one, the dragon masks were to be assembled to help free Tiamat. She then eats their owners. As much as this seems wrong, did the masks make them her chosen (for digestion)? There are other areas where chosen didn't fit the god/goddess choosing them, Auril being one above.
(The "Chowsen?")
http://slyflourish.com/running_rise_of_tiamat.html
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 02:12:19
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And why the hell doesn't the Wiki contain Auril's REAL NAME under her entry? Thats the third time in 2 days I've gone to the wiki for a piece of directly related information and the Wiki was sorely lacking (like not having the actual meaning of the word 'Drow' under the drow entry, for example). For awhile there I was really starting to find it useful, but now I'm back to not being able to find the crunchy stuff I need.
For the 100th time, can someone once-again tell me her name? I couldn't even find it in Brian's article on the Frostmaiden (which is pretty weird - where else could it be?) this time I will WRITE IT DOWN, I promise. 
However, I did find something else not related (I think) in the Wiki entry - the folk of the Great Glacier call her Saukuruk - isn't that oddly close to 'Sarrukh'?
Aurilandur.... its in the article on Sarifal, that's why you couldn't find it. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 21:04:04
I can see how that could theoretically lead to the creation of an 'Ice Queen'. 
I'm just now seeing (because of the stuff I had to look up earlier) that Silvanus is now in charge of 'the furies'. I like that - it makes sense to me. Especially since we KNOW at least one of them is Fey (Auril), and there is a VERY good chance Umberlee is as well (while looking for Auril's name, I came across some stuff in the Frostmaiden article that doesn't mention Umberlee by name, but definitely hints that she is right there - as a fey power - as well). Malar could easily be folded into the 'fey' as a primal hunter aspect.
And I am liking less and less having to refer to gods by (mortal) 'race' names. There really isn't such a thing as 'fey Gods' they Are NOT fey - the pre-existed the Fey. Same goes for most of the others all (the mutispheric ones, at any rate).
I would say their really should have been just three main groups at the beginning (and I am using the term 'groups' very loosely). The 'good' gods, which would be asscoiated with light (Selûne, Pelor, etc), the Seldairne, who should be more about 'balance' and nature,and the 'ebil Gods'.
But as I said, that's an extremely loose interpretation. Many of the neutral gods would be leaning toward 'good', if for no other reason than to help counter the evil gods. I think the Gray Lords broke-off from the Seldarine early on, possibly right after the Dawn War (so 'true neutral' from neutral good). Also, a lot of the evil gods never work together, even though it would benefit them. However, a good chunk of them are directly related to the elder Evil Eye and its many incarnations, so there's that. In fact, the more I think about it, the more i think that 'Seldarine' is just an elven term for the original Estelar, and then as time went on, they 'pruned' certain gods from their pantheon.
So basically, I'm just back to saying that pantheons themselves are a mortal fabrication, and meaningless on a cosmic level. Like companies, special interest groups, and politicians - each situation is different, and who is siding with who depends on the agenda of each individual at that time, on that one particular subject. Thus, different aspects of the same archtypes could be staunch allies on most things, and bitter enemies on a couple of others. There really is no 'this is how it always is', except in the minds of mortals, because they need that reassurance (otherwise, their own existence is nothing more than as a pawn in a cosmic game.. which it is). |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 20:25:37
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Just don't do a Codpiece of Winter. That would be... problematic.
"I'm telling you, it's because of this artifact!"
So shrinkage is the curse? I’ll take the Bag of Devouring and stick my hand in it instead tyvm. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 19:35:09
And why the hell doesn't the Wiki contain Auril's REAL NAME under her entry? Thats the third time in 2 days I've gone to the wiki for a piece of directly related information and the Wiki was sorely lacking (like not having the actual meaning of the word 'Drow' under the drow entry, for example). For awhile there I was really starting to find it useful, but now I'm back to not being able to find the crunchy stuff I need.
For the 100th time, can someone once-again tell me her name? I couldn't even find it in Brian's article on the Frostmaiden (which is pretty weird - where else could it be?) this time I will WRITE IT DOWN, I promise.
However, I did find something else not related (I think) in the Wiki entry - the folk of the Great Glacier call her Saukuruk - isn't that oddly close to 'Sarrukh'? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 19:16:05
Well, part of what I do with all the Over-cosmology crap I am always harping on (and apologies all around for that), is that the Fey and Giants have deep connections, that go all the way back before the creation of the current multiverse, to the Time before Time (which is actually canon, thanks to 4e, BTW). I mean the part about 'when' they were from, before the Lattice of Heaven was shattered and the Crystal Spheres were formed as a result of that. Not the parts I put in about Faerie (the Feywild). However, that's also canon, but not D&D canon - it comes straight out of RW (Irish) folklore. The Giants had the realm first (the fomorians just before the fey arrived, but their was a series of races - probably all giant species - that held it in a row), and then the Tautha DeDannan (literally, 'followers of Danu') showed up and took it from the giants, in a series of wars (which continue to this day, in the Feywild, but to a much lesser extent, since the giants have pretty-much lost already).
I think Uluitu was made into an archfey in 4e, wasn't he? Otherwise he was one of those 'primal spirits', which is probbaly the most confusing bit of 4e lore and the hardest for me to rectify with everything else. Either way, we have a fairly 'human' description of him, yet in the short story featuring him (one of the "Realms of..." books) his description makes him sound like a playful penguin. He is even described as having smooth black skin and FLIPPERS. But, being a deity (even a demi-one) means that he can shape-change, ESPECIALLY if he was an archfey. Thus he probably has a beast form, and a hybrid form (and this works even if he is one of those 'primal' thingies).
The way I am picturing it, most of the original archfey either died, sacrificed themselves, or 'moved on' (to other positions within the Fey Courts), and a new group 'took over'. This helps explain some discrepancies between names (in editions) right around the time the Fey fled the Prime Material Plane into the Feywild. The one big problem I have with all that is that in my homebrew lore the Feywild (the Giantlands back then) should not have existed until after the Lattice of Heaven was broken. Not sure if that is reconcilable (but I do have an idea).
Anyway, there should have been a 'Queen of Frost' that lost that position. Then we have two sisters - princesses of the Fey - who were supposed to take over and became Queens, but one - Auril - got corrupted by the Black Diamond. Corellon warns the archfey that that was a 'sign' he forsaw showing the ed of the fey homland (Ladinion), and that they needed to find a 'safe space'. then (completely hombrew here), the goddess Danu - the original Queen of all fey (and probably Tiania's mother) sacrifices herself and creates Faerie, a pocket-plane not unlike that one the Star Elves made (Sildëyuir). In fact, a bunch of original archfey (who should have been akin to at least lesser gods at that point) could have created sevral of these 'bubbles' to save the fey - not every one may have wanted to go with Titania and her court of stars.
Whoever was the original Frost Queen - probably the second most powerful female fey in their hierarchy - was gone (I have my suspicions about her, and who she was as well), but the Regalia of Winter could not be passed on to Auril because of her corruption, and the fey felt it best to leave it in the Prime Material until a time when someone could become the new Frost Sprite Queen. Silvanus (who is probably a human aspect of a fey god - maybe Rillifane), took the crown, and promised to keep an eye on Auril. Ulutiu took the necklace, and some thus-far nameless archfey took the ring, but that person was later killed (or whatever), and the ring 'got lost' in the Realms.
Now here's the thing - the novel specifically stated that the ruins Artus Cimbar found were of 'Mulhorand origin' - thats where he found the ring. Except those ruins were somehow in the Stonelands area. I've translated that to mean Imaskari (and easy mistake to make for a northern scholar over a thousand years ago, who would not have know the differences between all the southern ruins), and THAT got folded into my lore concerning Halaster's involvement with Thaeravel (in other words, the 'Alabaster Towers' were of Imaskari architecture, and Artus Cimbar mistook that for Mulhorandi).
So it all comes full-circle. Somehow, a 'renegade' band of Imaskari got a hold of the Ring of Winter and brought it to the Stonelands when they built towers there. They got it from the fey, and we KNOW the Imaskari had some major dealing with the fey (and I also think the original fey hmeland - fallen Ladinion - became part of the Forgotten realms and is somewhere near the Hordelands). We might even surmise that the attack and devastation on Thaeravel was prompted by the Terraseer, who wanted to get his hands on the ancient fey artifact (or just get it away from the Imaskari, who he may have felt threatened by).
Interesting timeline:
163 DR: The Ring of Winter is last reported used on Faerûn in this year, when a village and a Cormyrean lord’s estates are destroyed in a massive icestorm during high summer.
168 DR: A wizard of unknown ancestry calling himself Halaster Blackcloak, later identified as the Raurinese wizard Hilather [150, 1026], builds a tower and fortified ramparts in the middle of the Deepwater Plateau, to the north and west of the burgeoning farms along the harbor shore in Waterdeep. He begins exploration of the Underhalls of the Melairkyn and claims the delvings for himself.
212 DR: Elminster Aumar, Archmage of Shadowdale, is born.
I put in the reference to Elminster only because I was going to try and connect the ring's appearance to him, but I miss by about 50 years. However, I never noticed before how Elminster was conceived not too long after Halaster moved to nearby Wtaerdeep. I always thought there was a reseblance.
And this, from the novel-
quote:
"Come have a look at this, Pontifax," Artus Murmired, his attention instantly drawn back to the statue. "Its Mulhorandi form the looks of it, and very old, too."
A frown of concern crossed Pontifax's face, and he stepped into the room. "Mulhorandi, you say? For Mystra's sake, don't touch the thing until you've examined it under better lighting. You know what happened to Grig of Armot when he bought that blasted magical model of a Mulhorandi pyramid at the magefair. Still trapped inside, don't you know."
Thats right on page 2, in the ruins where Artus finds the ring. Now, even though it says that they were in ruins 'somewhere in northern Cormyr', there is other lore stating it was found 'near Shadowdale. Now, having Mulhorand (which I think is really Imaskari) ruins in Cormyr proper doesn't make sense, directly to the north we have the Stonelands - a region traditionally claimed by Cormyr (and filled with mysterious ruins of unknown origins), and also happens to be not all that far away from Shadowdale.
And now that I've quoted that, I have it stuck in my head to figure-out where Armot was... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 18:38:32
Just don't do a Codpiece of Winter. That would be... problematic.
"I'm telling you, it's because of this artifact!" |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 17:34:46
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If its a giant turtle Kaiju, then its probably Gamera (even though a nearly identical creature - with almost the same exact name - is written up in canon SJ).
The lore can be fixed, if we go with some of my homebrew above - the Jewels of Winter ('Regalia of Winter'?) are three items that originally belonged to the Fairy Court (The Court of Stars) and were in the possession of the original Frost Queen. They were supposed to be passed-down to her daughter - the Frost-Sprite Princess - when she took her mother's place. However, things didn't work out that way, and Auril (WHY do I keep forgetting her FULL name?) became corrupted and became the Queen of Air & Darkness. Thus, when the Fey fled into the Feywild and created their new homeland, Auril was left-behind, and the Jewels of Winter were scattered (Silvanus took the crown for safe-keeping, and the Necklace went to the original frost-Sprite King, Ulutiu (who was soon-after imprisoned by Annam in the glacier). The ring was lost - it was probably taken by another fey - and eventually wound-up in Artimus' hands thousands and thousands of years later.
Because the artifacts were all part of the Fey Court (which was a 'lesser branch' of the Seldarine at that point in time), they were considered 'good'. The truth is, like the Fey themselves, their artifacts are fickle and temperamental, and tend to steer towards the alignment of the possessor over time. When Artimus had them for a time - a very long time, in fact - the Ring of Winter became 'attuned' to him, and it had his alignment. Now that Auril is starting to exert control over Artimus (and through him, the ring), the artifact is starting to become more attuned to Auril herself (especially since it is rightfully hers to begin with). She has had her crown back for nearly a century now, and it is helping her 'remain stable' (she is able to control her primal rage... up to a point). She should also be seeking to have Ulutiu be an exarch under her purview, along with the necklace. With all three items within her sphere of influence, it will give her unconditional control over cold and winter in the Realms, to the point where she will be able to force the Raven Queen back out of realmspace.
Further Homebrew Musings:
For her part, the Raven Queen (who might actually be someone else we already know, or a different aspect of her) is trying to make a place for herself within the faerûnian Pantheon, which has not been an easy task, since so many death-related portfolios are already taken (as well as cold). She is on good terms with Jergal, but thus far Kelemvor has only offered her an exarchship under him, which she feels is beneath her status. She would prefer to be his 'partner', or even consort, if that's what it would take. Considering the new Mystra's 'cold shoulder' toward Kelemvor (the 'Midnight' part of her is no longer present), he may eventually take the Raven Queen up on that offer, especially if he needs allies against a restored Cyric.
BTW, I do like this idea of the Regalia of Winter. I wouldn't say this Regalia is all Auril's. For instance, maybe Ulutiu as you said had the necklace. By the way, we know Ulutiu was the father of some of the giants (firbolg, fomorian, verbeeg, and voadkyn... at least 2 of which are "woodsy" types of giants, and fomorians are also considered fey giants). I wouldn't be surprised if he also fathered fey races on Auril, such as "frost sprites" and "Snow Elves" and possibly even "Avariels" (though perhaps Auril hooked up with an Aearee deity if she's the mother of Avariels). I say that because Auril was seemingly also an archfey (Aurilandur) who was queen of the snow sprites and avariels worship her under that name as well. In that vein Ulutiu could be either Tarsellis Meunniduin or Rellavar Danuvien (see the article on seldarine deities in Dragon 236 and the article on snow elves in dragon 155)..... so he may be some kind of Archfey/Primal Spirit/Primordial... not sure which and not sure I can truly define the big difference.
Anyway, getting back to the original thing you mentioned... yeah, I like the idea of the Regalia of Winter: a ring of winter, a crown of winter, a necklace of winter. I'd say throw in even more pieces to make it harder to acquire all the pieces. Maybe a scepter of winter, a brooch of winter, a torc of winter, a barrette of winter, a locket of winter. Maybe some of it is even not jewelry, such as a fur coat of winter. Maybe some boots. Maybe a pair of gloves. Maybe a fur scarf. Not saying have all these, just throwing out options.
Maybe some of these fur pieces were made from some kind of primordial beast of cold that was slain. Hell, maybe even something like the scepter is using its bones. Maybe the necklace is using its teeth. |
| Bakra |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 15:42:10
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
The most recent write up of the Ring of Winter in ToA deviated a tad from old lore. For one, it is no longer a good artifact that punishes selfish or evil intent. Kind of a shame that this bit is gone since a lot of the lore in James Lowder’s novel Ring of Winter (still one of my absolute favorites) focused heavily on that concept. Other than that, it’s new stats (in addition to Artus Cimber and the dragon turtle Aramag) were redone quite well.
Speaking of Aramag, can any of you kaiju fans pick up on his hidden identity?
It might just be me, but in my mind Lowder's lore trumps anything new since anything new is based on it and he created it, just like I'd defer any discussion of moonblades to Elaine or the whole damn realms to Ed :)
Yeah, I can’t really disagree with you on that. I mean, canonically, the RoW has already had some catastrophic affects that don’t seem possible with its power list in 5e. I wonder if this is a trend - artifacts don’t seem to have the world shaking powers they had in early editions (just an opinion).
Dragonbait in Chult too, was rather unexpected.
I may need to rewatch it but In Chris Perkins Dice Camera Action game he did provide more information about the ring. One the ring was crafted by “Elves”. I am not sure if he meant the elven people or fey ones (eladrain) The second reveal is in the right hands it can bring a global winter.
Also, I do think Markustay is on to something about Auril and the Ring of Winter. The more ‘warmer’ she becomes the ‘colder’ the ring becomes.
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 15:24:21
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
The most recent write up of the Ring of Winter in ToA deviated a tad from old lore. For one, it is no longer a good artifact that punishes selfish or evil intent. Kind of a shame that this bit is gone since a lot of the lore in James Lowder’s novel Ring of Winter (still one of my absolute favorites) focused heavily on that concept. Other than that, it’s new stats (in addition to Artus Cimber and the dragon turtle Aramag) were redone quite well.
Speaking of Aramag, can any of you kaiju fans pick up on his hidden identity?
Agree heavily on the ring losing the punishing. Flavor is wonderful. Losing it makes things bland.
Ok, I will admit to having recently gained an interest in Kaiju only because of the nyama-nummo, but I've barely looked into it. Unless its Gamera (which the guy mentioned in Jungles of Chult doesn't fly while spinning in circles with rockets shooting out of his "shell holes"), I'm not sure. Is that the linkage you were thinking? If not, spill, because I'm intrigued.
It is indeed Gamera -- just spell "Aramag" backwards.
Oh, I'm dumb.... lol... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 14:18:32
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
The most recent write up of the Ring of Winter in ToA deviated a tad from old lore. For one, it is no longer a good artifact that punishes selfish or evil intent. Kind of a shame that this bit is gone since a lot of the lore in James Lowder’s novel Ring of Winter (still one of my absolute favorites) focused heavily on that concept. Other than that, it’s new stats (in addition to Artus Cimber and the dragon turtle Aramag) were redone quite well.
Speaking of Aramag, can any of you kaiju fans pick up on his hidden identity?
Agree heavily on the ring losing the punishing. Flavor is wonderful. Losing it makes things bland.
Ok, I will admit to having recently gained an interest in Kaiju only because of the nyama-nummo, but I've barely looked into it. Unless its Gamera (which the guy mentioned in Jungles of Chult doesn't fly while spinning in circles with rockets shooting out of his "shell holes"), I'm not sure. Is that the linkage you were thinking? If not, spill, because I'm intrigued.
It is indeed Gamera -- just spell "Aramag" backwards. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 13:36:49
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
The most recent write up of the Ring of Winter in ToA deviated a tad from old lore. For one, it is no longer a good artifact that punishes selfish or evil intent. Kind of a shame that this bit is gone since a lot of the lore in James Lowder’s novel Ring of Winter (still one of my absolute favorites) focused heavily on that concept. Other than that, it’s new stats (in addition to Artus Cimber and the dragon turtle Aramag) were redone quite well.
Speaking of Aramag, can any of you kaiju fans pick up on his hidden identity?
Agree heavily on the ring losing the punishing. Flavor is wonderful. Losing it makes things bland.
Ok, I will admit to having recently gained an interest in Kaiju only because of the nyama-nummo, but I've barely looked into it. Unless its Gamera (which the guy mentioned in Jungles of Chult doesn't fly while spinning in circles with rockets shooting out of his "shell holes"), I'm not sure. Is that the linkage you were thinking? If not, spill, because I'm intrigued. |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 12:53:18
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
The most recent write up of the Ring of Winter in ToA deviated a tad from old lore. For one, it is no longer a good artifact that punishes selfish or evil intent. Kind of a shame that this bit is gone since a lot of the lore in James Lowder’s novel Ring of Winter (still one of my absolute favorites) focused heavily on that concept. Other than that, it’s new stats (in addition to Artus Cimber and the dragon turtle Aramag) were redone quite well.
Speaking of Aramag, can any of you kaiju fans pick up on his hidden identity?
It might just be me, but in my mind Lowder's lore trumps anything new since anything new is based on it and he created it, just like I'd defer any discussion of moonblades to Elaine or the whole damn realms to Ed :)
Yeah, I can’t really disagree with you on that. I mean, canonically, the RoW has already had some catastrophic affects that don’t seem possible with its power list in 5e. I wonder if this is a trend - artifacts don’t seem to have the world shaking powers they had in early editions (just an opinion).
Dragonbait in Chult too, was rather unexpected. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 11:13:35
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
The most recent write up of the Ring of Winter in ToA deviated a tad from old lore. For one, it is no longer a good artifact that punishes selfish or evil intent. Kind of a shame that this bit is gone since a lot of the lore in James Lowder’s novel Ring of Winter (still one of my absolute favorites) focused heavily on that concept. Other than that, it’s new stats (in addition to Artus Cimber and the dragon turtle Aramag) were redone quite well.
Speaking of Aramag, can any of you kaiju fans pick up on his hidden identity?
It might just be me, but in my mind Lowder's lore trumps anything new since anything new is based on it and he created it, just like I'd defer any discussion of moonblades to Elaine or the whole damn realms to Ed :) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 17 Jan 2018 : 22:22:52
If its a giant turtle Kaiju, then its probably Gamera (even though a nearly identical creature - with almost the same exact name - is written up in canon SJ).
The lore can be fixed, if we go with some of my homebrew above - the Jewels of Winter ('Regalia of Winter'?) are three items that originally belonged to the Fairy Court (The Court of Stars) and were in the possession of the original Frost Queen. They were supposed to be passed-down to her daughter - the Frost-Sprite Princess - when she took her mother's place. However, things didn't work out that way, and Auril (WHY do I keep forgetting her FULL name?) became corrupted and became the Queen of Air & Darkness. Thus, when the Fey fled into the Feywild and created their new homeland, Auril was left-behind, and the Jewels of Winter were scattered (Silvanus took the crown for safe-keeping, and the Necklace went to the original frost-Sprite King, Ulutiu (who was soon-after imprisoned by Annam in the glacier). The ring was lost - it was probably taken by another fey - and eventually wound-up in Artimus' hands thousands and thousands of years later.
Because the artifacts were all part of the Fey Court (which was a 'lesser branch' of the Seldarine at that point in time), they were considered 'good'. The truth is, like the Fey themselves, their artifacts are fickle and temperamental, and tend to steer towards the alignment of the possessor over time. When Artimus had them for a time - a very long time, in fact - the Ring of Winter became 'attuned' to him, and it had his alignment. Now that Auril is starting to exert control over Artimus (and through him, the ring), the artifact is starting to become more attuned to Auril herself (especially since it is rightfully hers to begin with). She has had her crown back for nearly a century now, and it is helping her 'remain stable' (she is able to control her primal rage... up to a point). She should also be seeking to have Ulutiu be an exarch under her purview, along with the necklace. With all three items within her sphere of influence, it will give her unconditional control over cold and winter in the Realms, to the point where she will be able to force the Raven Queen back out of realmspace.
Further Homebrew Musings:
For her part, the Raven Queen (who might actually be someone else we already know, or a different aspect of her) is trying to make a place for herself within the faerûnian Pantheon, which has not been an easy task, since so many death-related portfolios are already taken (as well as cold). She is on good terms with Jergal, but thus far Kelemvor has only offered her an exarchship under him, which she feels is beneath her status. She would prefer to be his 'partner', or even consort, if that's what it would take. Considering the new Mystra's 'cold shoulder' toward Kelemvor (the 'Midnight' part of her is no longer present), he may eventually take the Raven Queen up on that offer, especially if he needs allies against a restored Cyric. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Jan 2018 : 22:01:01
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
The most recent write up of the Ring of Winter in ToA deviated a tad from old lore. For one, it is no longer a good artifact that punishes selfish or evil intent. Kind of a shame that this bit is gone since a lot of the lore in James Lowder’s novel Ring of Winter (still one of my absolute favorites) focused heavily on that concept. Other than that, it’s new stats (in addition to Artus Cimber and the dragon turtle Aramag) were redone quite well.
I personally felt it was rather nerfed.
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Speaking of Aramag, can any of you kaiju fans pick up on his hidden identity?
I only caught that last year, when someone else here commented on it. In my defense, though, I'm not a kaiju fan. I don't dislike them; it's just not my thing. |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 17 Jan 2018 : 21:38:37
The most recent write up of the Ring of Winter in ToA deviated a tad from old lore. For one, it is no longer a good artifact that punishes selfish or evil intent. Kind of a shame that this bit is gone since a lot of the lore in James Lowder’s novel Ring of Winter (still one of my absolute favorites) focused heavily on that concept. Other than that, it’s new stats (in addition to Artus Cimber and the dragon turtle Aramag) were redone quite well.
Speaking of Aramag, can any of you kaiju fans pick up on his hidden identity? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 17 Jan 2018 : 02:51:47
First off, it seems Brian was making some sort of attempt at merging Auril with the Raven Queen ("A kinder, gentler Ice Queen" LOL)
However, I would spin it like this: Auril began loosing ground as soon as tRQ entered the realms, and she got scared (probably for the first time in a VERY long time). She got in touch with some 'old friends' from the Celtic pantheon (the Celtic and fey pantheons were most-likely a single pantheon at some point - I would hazard to guess the Celtic was a bunch of human-aspected variants that broke-away from the Seldarine). Silvanus, being a truly ancient power (he may even be a humanish aspect of Rillifane Rallathil) assisted her, by performing some sort of 'balancing' magic (Nature is all about 'The Balance'), to stop the spread of curruption she originally received from the Black Diamond, and although she is still corrupted (and has occasional 'bouts of madness'), she is now capable of interacting with others with some measure of control (just like Larael when she was under the influence of the Crown of Horns). Her 'wicked nature' (the corruption within her) probably hated having to do that, but it was better than just having the Raven Queen completely supplant her, eventually. At least now she can start developing something akin to a normal faith, rather than just crazy cults.
The Ring of Winter and Artimus Cimbar - I've actually connected the ring to another artifact - the Ice Necklace of of Ulutiu. There were three pieces to the Jewels of Winter that belonged to the original Frost Queen - the two just mentioned, and the Crown of Frost, which is currently still worn by Auril. When she was corrupted by the Black Diamond, she lost the other two items (I have lore to go with all that, but this isn't the place, nor is it 'ready'). She would court him as an exarch, but I would make him an unwilling one (not all exarchs/demigods have desired be 'Chosen' of a god - for some, it was simply thrust upon him. Lets not forget that there is a theory (one that refuses to die) that Drizzt Do'Urden is really a Chosen of Lolth. You GET 'chosen', you DON'T get to choose. 
EDIT: Come to think of it, I'd spin it that Silvanus returned the Crown of Frost to her - he had it for safekeeping - and that's what 'mellowed her out' (it helped to counteract the madness).
And while we are on a related subject, I still think that guy at the end of the Threat from the Sea trilogy should have turned out to be a paladin of Umberlee. In fact, I still want that - retcon time! It would have made the whole ending 1000% better. Nothing worse than having a certain god 'foreshadowed' for three entire books (repeatedly, over & over, like an over-used 'red herring'), and then it turn out to be exactly the ending that the books pointed to all along. I'm still disappointed, some 15 years later.
A Chosen of Umberlee? A good one? Now THAT is something I can sink my teeth into. A Chosen of a god that already has 10K Paladins, and you've basically just become number 10,001? Not so much... |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 17 Jan 2018 : 02:26:36
I don't know if you have to argue it actually punishes evil. Pretty much every example we know of the evil is "punished" because they over-reach. Meglomania resulting in stupid choices.
Alternately, the rig could be a scepter of Savras kind of thing. Someone used it to capture, idk, say 1/10 her power long ago and this reduced her to a lesser goddess. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 16 Jan 2018 : 23:24:26
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Artus as a Chosen of Auril doesn't make much sense unless it is only because of the Ring. This makes sense if, like "mortal" chosen, the ring is a vessel of Auril's power and by extension, its wielder is her chosen - no matter who that wielder is. This would make a lot of sense if you ask me because it makes the wearer immortal and gives him or her power over ice and snow and weather.
-That's an interesting concept. I'm 99% sure that there are no instances of a physical thing being imbued by a divine power like that, but I so no reason why they couldn't- especially if the item had like a sentience. |
| Shadowsoul |
Posted - 16 Jan 2018 : 14:34:33
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Perhaps when Auril lost some of her wickedness, she reclaimed her power from Iyraclea.
Auril doesn't have to, she's been siphoning power from Ulutiu while he slumbers beneath the ice. |
| Shadowsoul |
Posted - 16 Jan 2018 : 14:30:05
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Not sure who you're suggesting didn't do their homework. I doubt Brian didn't do his homework. More likely the 5E crew missed it, when they put everything back. Seems more like there is an interesting story to be told there. Perhaps when Auril lost some of her wickedness, she reclaimed her power from Iyraclea. Also the ring could originally be a Feywild item linked to the Frost Sprite Queen.
I blame them all to be honest. We are seeing a "lot" of instances where things are totally ignored. The problem with using FR as your flagship setting is the fact that leaving things out without an explanation sticks out like a sore thumb. Also, let's not forget that as of 1484 DR Hedrun Arnsfirth was the Chosen of Auril. I don't see anywhere that Auril "lost her wickedness". It sounds like trying to BS away events because people forget to do the research. |
| TomCosta |
Posted - 16 Jan 2018 : 14:11:16
Not sure who you're suggesting didn't do their homework. I doubt Brian didn't do his homework. More likely the 5E crew missed it, when they put everything back. Seems more like there is an interesting story to be told there. Perhaps when Auril lost some of her wickedness, she reclaimed her power from Iyraclea. Also the ring could originally be a Feywild item linked to the Frost Sprite Queen. |
| Shadowsoul |
Posted - 16 Jan 2018 : 13:58:05
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Artus as a Chosen of Auril doesn't make much sense unless it is only because of the Ring. This makes sense if, like "mortal" chosen, the ring is a vessel of Auril's power and by extension, its wielder is her chosen - no matter who that wielder is. This would make a lot of sense if you ask me because it makes the wearer immortal and gives him or her power over ice and snow and weather.
Given the way the Ring basically punishes evil, though, I'm skeptical of any connection betwixt it and Auril -- unless that connection predates the "evil ice queen" routine Auril is known for.
Sounds to me like someone just failed to do their homework. |
|
|
