| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| mikie |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 02:46:28
Well met all! It's been a VERY long time since I've adventured here. Getting into a new campaign and trying out 5th edition too. My question is: Where can I find information on Skullport? I remember reading it somewhere. Dragon Magazine? Volo's? Anyway, also looking for a thieves guilds OR assassins guilds in Skullport. Any information or suggestions would be very helpful. Thanks! |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 21 Jan 2018 : 16:02:53
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
A few years back I asked Ed, "Why do liches bother to wear clothes?" And although he gave me a well thought-out answer, I still felt it wasn't a smart thing to do.
If I were a lich, not only would I walk around nakey all the time (with maybe a rusty sword in a scabbard at my side, although without hips, one has to wonder what keeps those things up), I would work on a spell that would make a normal undead's eyes glow - it could probably even be a cantrip. Then I could either learn actual ventriloquism (which might be hard without lips... but then again, so should speaking at all, eh?), or just learn the spell ventriloquism. Then I'd dress up a bunch of my plain ol' skeleton minions in rich-looking wizard's robes, maybe even give them staves (actual, non-magical quarterstaves, with maybe a faerie fire spell on them to make them glow), and then set them all about my dun... errr... lair.
How funny would that be? All the PCs would think the found a dungeon full of liches, when there was only one lich, and he just looked like a regular skeleton? I could torture a party for hours with a setup like that. In fact... that just might be the next adventure I write up. If your a guy like Larloch, you could do this with all your liches - make them look like normal skeletons, while you put magic mouth spells on the skeletons that just walk around going, "I am Larloch! Feel my wrath!"
I just picture your players running around like in one of those Scooby Doo episodes (running in one door, running out another, etc). 
Just picture the real Larloch sitting back in some hidden chamber, watching the whole thing on his Crystal Ball, eating popcorn (and the popcorn falling out of his ribcage).
What do you think most of Larloch's liches are? You didn't think they were all really liches did you?  I imagine the stories of Larloch are immensely overblown and he allows them to fester because it makes people afraid of him. Again... misdirection and misinformation are key pieces to power. He probably has large numbers of skeletal undead and mummies that are posing as liches, and he probably has many of the handful of liches that he DOES control imbuing undead with spell ability so that they themselves are lacking in personal spell power, but also to make it very hard to tell WHAT he has. A lot of the mummies may have also been spellstitched (template, gives spellcasting ability... they'd have hd several 3rd level and less spells). Then there will be those ghouls and wights and ghasts who are given the minor rings or scepters and such that can cast a 1st level magic missile or chromatic orb say 3 times a week (but said devices ONLY work if empowered by a being who draws on negative energy... i.e. undead). Every skeleton you see may just have nothing but a rusty sword in a room, or four of them may be able to hurl a single nasty spell.... you just don't know. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Jan 2018 : 05:08:05
...And now I've found the original response, parked on my hard drive. I totally don't recall this prior discussion, but it looks like I had similar reasoning then, too.
quote:
Hi again, fellow scribes. Ed has been busy busy busy, but he's also been reading the posts from this thread that I shuttle along to him, and has sent some Realmslore replies, to whit:
Hi, everybody. Markustay, liches wear clothes for a variety of reasons. Zandilar is correct when she says habit, GoCeraf is right when he says many lich garments are enchanted, and provide a way for liches to carry more "ready" magic around on their persons for use (particularly defensive), and Wooly is correct re. both clothing providing a means of carting useful stuff around and for reasons of vanity (partially concealing their wasted bodies). however, there's a "crowning" reason, too: clothing provides a psychological "anchor" for liches, rooted in human nature and in the writings of early lichnee-attainment procedures by long, long-ago mages, right down to Nulathoe (who believed that retaining clothing and footwear slowed the "inevitable decay" of the physical body of the lich). So a lot of them are afraid of falling apart faster, and believe that clothing, however ragged, rotten, or "abbreviated," somehow provides a binding for the body that slows its deterioration. That's alos why many liches LET clothing decay: although they may don new clothing OVER the old, rotting stuff, they seldom remove the garments they were wearing at attainment of lichdom, or donned right away after they "rose" as liches.
Remember, all: there are no trivial questions, only trivial answers. :}
So saith Ed. Who will have more to say soon, I'm thinking as I look at my inbox.
love to all,
THO
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Jan 2018 : 05:02:51
I would say there would be two reasons for a lich to dress, possibly three.
1) Habit. You spend a lifetime wearing clothes... It kind of becomes an ingrained habit.
2) Pockets. People without clothes have fewer convenient places to stick their spell components and non-worn magical doodads.
3) Vanity. This isn't as big a factor as the others... But some people like to dress well or in particular styles, and that could carry over past death. Or maybe you don't want to look in the mirror and see particular dangly bits are now around your knees when they used to be a bit further north. It doesn't matter if you're not using them -- you still don't want to see them like that. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 21 Jan 2018 : 03:48:26
A few years back I asked Ed, "Why do liches bother to wear clothes?" And although he gave me a well thought-out answer, I still felt it wasn't a smart thing to do.
If I were a lich, not only would I walk around nakey all the time (with maybe a rusty sword in a scabbard at my side, although without hips, one has to wonder what keeps those things up), I would work on a spell that would make a normal undead's eyes glow - it could probably even be a cantrip. Then I could either learn actual ventriloquism (which might be hard without lips... but then again, so should speaking at all, eh?), or just learn the spell ventriloquism. Then I'd dress up a bunch of my plain ol' skeleton minions in rich-looking wizard's robes, maybe even give them staves (actual, non-magical quarterstaves, with maybe a faerie fire spell on them to make them glow), and then set them all about my dun... errr... lair.
How funny would that be? All the PCs would think the found a dungeon full of liches, when there was only one lich, and he just looked like a regular skeleton? I could torture a party for hours with a setup like that. In fact... that just might be the next adventure I write up. If your a guy like Larloch, you could do this with all your liches - make them look like normal skeletons, while you put magic mouth spells on the skeletons that just walk around going, "I am Larloch! Feel my wrath!"
I just picture your players running around like in one of those Scooby Doo episodes (running in one door, running out another, etc).
Just picture the real Larloch sitting back in some hidden chamber, watching the whole thing on his Crystal Ball, eating popcorn (and the popcorn falling out of his ribcage). |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 21 Jan 2018 : 01:48:33
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
What I would like to see is an adventure where the lich doesn't wear any clothes, and he just looks like an ordinary skeleton, and then he is hidden among a few other skeletons. Even have him holding a sword to fool adventurers. Then they burst in thinking they are just fighting skeletons, and one starts talking to them. One of those, "we ****ed up" moments.
One of the key things I used to use "imbue undead with spell ability" for was with liches and exactly what you just described. Of course, that particular spell was a favorite of mine (gods it was so broken... but let me not digress...). In fact, for 5e, I created imbue undead with cantrip for a similar reason. Despite the fact that I usually play a character with a ton of attack spells, my key strategies usually involve misdirection, misinformation, or just outright "hiding" myself so people can't find me. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Jan 2018 : 19:34:41
I suppose if you enter godhood (even just exarch-level), you circumvent the whole demi-lich thing. That would make sense, for all the Uber-Liches we know.
And we 'know' Larloch was/is a Chosen. So, there ya' go.  |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 20 Jan 2018 : 10:16:50
Larloch is an Ultra-lich - a different kind of lich. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Jan 2018 : 04:11:33
Yes, i agree with you. They probably should have used someone else.
But right now FR has become the default setting. Its not really even FR anymore - it IS D&D now, or rather, the D&D 'core' setting. Anything they produce for D&D HAS TO fit inside FR. We just have to deal with that. its a compromise. No more 4e, and we got our world back mostly the way we like it. Personally, if I were to run the thing (and I just might - I'm suddenly getting into jungle stuff LOL), I would say (in my own head, not anything the players would ever find out) that that is NOT Acererak - its IS a warlock, who made a pact with the Acererak vestige*, and then later he became a lich, and now he's just posing as his patron. Easy-peasy.
*As for how he became a vestige when he was 'just some skull sitting in a dungeon' - well, you don't think all those 'weighty matters' demiliches spend an eternity pondering don't have anything to do with obtaining true immortality the best way they know how - Godhood? He gained enough power as a demilich over the centuries to finally become a vestige, and now he is working toward the next step. That means, even with all thats going on and how the used him, he could STILL be 'just some skull in a dungeon somewhere'.
Although at this point, if he is a vestige, then he should probably have his own little pocket-plane. Unless there is some sort of Elemental plane of Skulls.
And why skulls? The skull contains the intellect during life. After death, the soul goes to an afterlife (but not for liches - they trap theirs), and the mind goes to the Astral. Maybe when they trap the soul, the mind can't 'move on' to the astral to be stored, so it remains inside the skull, long after the brain itself has atrophied. Even after the rest of the skeleton just dissolves to dust. As the phylactory acts as a souljar for the soul, the skull becomes the home for the intellect, and thus, like a phylactory, it can't ever deteriorate.
What I would like to see is an adventure where the lich doesn't wear any clothes, and he just looks like an ordinary skeleton, and then he is hidden among a few other skeletons. Even have him holding a sword to fool adventurers. Then they burst in thinking they are just fighting skeletons, and one starts talking to them. One of those, "we ****ed up" moments.
And why isn't Larloch a demiloch? is he too cool for that?  |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 20 Jan 2018 : 02:29:28
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Once certain beings reach a certain level of power, they become 'multispheric'. And not just 'gods', even uber-powerful mortals (although Chosen ARE, technically 'gods', just Exarchs, but there are plenty of others of that caliber who are not deific servants). If we say that the worlds of MtG exist within the D&Dverse (and they should - they have Loxo!), than all those 'planeswalkers' are near-deities as well.
So, its not so much (IMO) that the rest of D&D is 'polluting' our FR, its more like we are starting to 'pan back' and see the bigger piture. I mean, it was always there, but now its just more 'in your face'. I mean, we have an archfiend (Graz'zt) snatch a goddess from us - an archfiend who is the father of one of the mst powerful beings on Oerth (GH). Thats a pretty huge connection right there. Elminster was in DDO, so he was IN Eberrron. Khelben's been to Greyhawk numerous times, as have Vanderghast and a host of others. The Chosen of Mystra have all been to Earth (two of them even took a young Filfaeril to Woodstock!) We have a Niven ghoul, and Kender (and there is an active gate to krynnin Anauroch). We've had a cross-over adventure with Ravenloft, several charatcers have gone to Ravenloft, and we've had a Splljammer novel cross into all these worlds. We've always had the Great Wheel - it just became Planescape in 2e. Even when we had our own, 'local cosmologies', the Great Wheel was still out there somewhere, sitting 'over' all the rest.
And considering that The Forgotten Realms might be the only known world with just as many (if not more) planer connections than the Outlands - including Sigil - I would say thinking of FR as the 'hub world' of the prime Material Plane isn't such a bad thing. At least not for us - think of how much worse it is for GH fans when they see us 'take their stuff'. You can even look at it from more than just a meta-gaming perspective; you can look at it as something that has occurred 'in setting'. The Spellplague changed a LOT, and not just in Realmspace. It was the epicenter of a multiversal shockwave. Now that its over, and things have 'gone back to normal', many folk - mortal and 'Godly' alike - have become aware of Troil (and especially Faerūn's) significance in the cosmic scheme of things.
There is a theory that Jack the Ripper left London, England and came to the United States. there was another brutal muderer who began his crime spree soon after the Ripper's crimes stopped. This, of course, is mostly an American theory - the Londoners don't want to give up their monster. Not for our (American) setting. But if we take a big step back, jack the ripper is an iconic 'bad guy'. Everyone knows about him. Sure he was a London, England baddie, but he was also an earth baddie, and YES, he could have moved elsewehre, and even got caught, under a different name, and none of us would know.
So would it have been better if they just renamed Acererak. Like, we all we know it was really Acererak, but they used a different name just because he is in a different setting? We know gods do that, but why would a mortal? Unless he's hiding from something, and Acererak doesn't seem the hiding type. Neither does Kyuss. They would try to 'grow' their cults wherever they could, and if they heard about all the power just lying around Realmspace waiting to be grabbed-up, then why not? We drew attention to ourselves with the Spellplague (well... really Cyric and Shar... and that ebil cabal of Wizards who doth dwelleth upon the coast ), and now we are paying for it.
You open the door, and its hard to close again. We KNOW the Far Realms always worked that way, even before it was named the Far Realms - beings from 'outside our universe' only notice us when we notice them. Thats just how it works. So if it works that way for beings that are that far removed from our reality, why wouldn't it for beings 'right next door'? The cat's out of the bag - we have Primordials that can be tapped like cosmic-level batteries - who isn't going to want a piece of that?
Hell, we even got the Rock of Bral. Of course everyone wants their cut. 
Yeah, but Acererak should never have gotten THAT kind of power. I'm sorry, he was a demilich in a dungeon. Yeah, its one we all enjoyed, but still, he was a demilich in a dungeon. I was surprised when they turned him into a vestige in Tome of Magic. But that should have trapped him somewhere that he can't escape from, right? It would make him a nice warlock patron, which I could buy. So, why the F is he out and about now and pulling antics like making everyone on Toril who ever got resurrected almost dying?
If they had wanted to do something on this scale... Larloch? Velsharoon? Shoon VII? I'd hate to say Tam, because he's getting over used right now. Plus there were already documented a few other demiliches in FR (Ythazz Buvarr is the only one immediately to mind... but some googling shows Rammaq a Titan demilich from one of the video games who wanted to become a god) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Jan 2018 : 01:39:59
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Circle of Skulls is set in Waterdeep, not Skullport. The skulls in that book are NOT the skullport skulls, they are a different group of skulls.
You have to wonder, do they have parties? "Bring your own Skull"? 
Is there a convention every year somewhere for skulls? Ya know, where you have to 'show your skull at the door' just to get in? Ghost Rider should have no problems...
Hey, has Ghost Rider ever fought the Red Skull? Would make for awesome October story.
Perhaps a bit too much... skulduggery. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Jan 2018 : 01:22:53
Once certain beings reach a certain level of power, they become 'multispheric'. And not just 'gods', even uber-powerful mortals (although Chosen ARE, technically 'gods', just Exarchs, but there are plenty of others of that caliber who are not deific servants). If we say that the worlds of MtG exist within the D&Dverse (and they should - they have Loxo!), than all those 'planeswalkers' are near-deities as well.
So, its not so much (IMO) that the rest of D&D is 'polluting' our FR, its more like we are starting to 'pan back' and see the bigger piture. I mean, it was always there, but now its just more 'in your face'. I mean, we have an archfiend (Graz'zt) snatch a goddess from us - an archfiend who is the father of one of the mst powerful beings on Oerth (GH). Thats a pretty huge connection right there. Elminster was in DDO, so he was IN Eberrron. Khelben's been to Greyhawk numerous times, as have Vanderghast and a host of others. The Chosen of Mystra have all been to Earth (two of them even took a young Filfaeril to Woodstock!) We have a Niven ghoul, and Kender (and there is an active gate to krynnin Anauroch). We've had a cross-over adventure with Ravenloft, several charatcers have gone to Ravenloft, and we've had a Splljammer novel cross into all these worlds. We've always had the Great Wheel - it just became Planescape in 2e. Even when we had our own, 'local cosmologies', the Great Wheel was still out there somewhere, sitting 'over' all the rest.
And considering that The Forgotten Realms might be the only known world with just as many (if not more) planer connections than the Outlands - including Sigil - I would say thinking of FR as the 'hub world' of the prime Material Plane isn't such a bad thing. At least not for us - think of how much worse it is for GH fans when they see us 'take their stuff'. You can even look at it from more than just a meta-gaming perspective; you can look at it as something that has occurred 'in setting'. The Spellplague changed a LOT, and not just in Realmspace. It was the epicenter of a multiversal shockwave. Now that its over, and things have 'gone back to normal', many folk - mortal and 'Godly' alike - have become aware of Troil (and especially Faerūn's) significance in the cosmic scheme of things.
There is a theory that Jack the Ripper left London, England and came to the United States. there was another brutal muderer who began his crime spree soon after the Ripper's crimes stopped. This, of course, is mostly an American theory - the Londoners don't want to give up their monster. Not for our (American) setting. But if we take a big step back, jack the ripper is an iconic 'bad guy'. Everyone knows about him. Sure he was a London, England baddie, but he was also an earth baddie, and YES, he could have moved elsewehre, and even got caught, under a different name, and none of us would know.
So would it have been better if they just renamed Acererak. Like, we all we know it was really Acererak, but they used a different name just because he is in a different setting? We know gods do that, but why would a mortal? Unless he's hiding from something, and Acererak doesn't seem the hiding type. Neither does Kyuss. They would try to 'grow' their cults wherever they could, and if they heard about all the power just lying around Realmspace waiting to be grabbed-up, then why not? We drew attention to ourselves with the Spellplague (well... really Cyric and Shar... and that ebil cabal of Wizards who doth dwelleth upon the coast ), and now we are paying for it.
You open the door, and its hard to close again. We KNOW the Far Realms always worked that way, even before it was named the Far Realms - beings from 'outside our universe' only notice us when we notice them. Thats just how it works. So if it works that way for beings that are that far removed from our reality, why wouldn't it for beings 'right next door'? The cat's out of the bag - we have Primordials that can be tapped like cosmic-level batteries - who isn't going to want a piece of that?
Hell, we even got the Rock of Bral. Of course everyone wants their cut. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 20 Jan 2018 : 00:28:32
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Yeah - the morons read the word demi-lich and think "almost-lich." I'm sure they have no idea.
[...]
I can't tell you how much I hope some day to stop seeing D&D run by people who think like this.
You forgot to glue a random RSE on it.
Yeah, "Chukchee is not a reader - Chukchee is a writer!"  . But didn't this start to roll back in 3.x? |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 20:48:12
Yeah - the morons read the word demi-lich and think "almost-lich." I'm sure they have no idea.
And yes, Acererak should not be connected - plain stupid.
I have an idea though. Lets make a dungeon under Waterdeep. No - not one of the dungeons you know about already - ANOTHER dungeon - a Secret one. THEN..., get this - this dungeon is the REAL home of Vecna. That's right - forget all the other things you heard about Vena in the past because he's really from under Waterdeep. AND, Lord Soth is his sidekick. I know what you're thinking - wasn't he from Dragonlance - NOPE Waterdeep. Plus, they both look cool so I want them to be there. Also, don't forget that this dungeon leads to a magic mirror that take you to another land - you know, a Land Beyond the Magic Mirror. As if that's not enough, you follow the dungeon long enough you find out it leads to another world inside this one - that's right - its a Hollow World - because that was cool too.
I can't tell you how much I hope some day to stop seeing D&D run by people who think like this. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 20:29:55
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
You know one thing that kills me.... demiliches used to be this RARE thing. It was the idea that a lich gets SOOOOO old that they actually give up their body and become nothing but a skull that sits there while they ponder the mysteries of the universe with their mind.
Now, everywhere I'm looking in products for 4e and 5e.... there's a f'ing demilich. All these demiliches, with no history to them at all. They were just cranked out of the factory... and they're servants of Szass Tam. Dude's only been a lich for a few hundred years. I kind of feel bad for reusing Ythazz Buvarr just because of all these other demiliches, except that I took the time to GIVE him a history that makes sense and would stretch back like 2500+ years.
I'm also still very pissed that they chose to use Acererak with Tomb of Annihilation. It feels sooo tacky. That plotline looks interesting, until you zoom out to the full story, and then its like "seriously, you couldn't have done this with ANY other lich".
Agreed. I think it was in one of the discussions about the Acererak thing that I managed to spin it into something more reasonable -- but it bugs me to *have* to do something like that. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 20:06:51
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
'Ebil skulls' is not really a new thing, especially not in D&D. Ed just took demiliches and made them fly.
Just for once, I'd like to see an evil ribcage.
Ebil ribcage exists - I'd have to page through all the old MCs but I definitely remember a headless skeletal torso. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 20:06:31
You know one thing that kills me.... demiliches used to be this RARE thing. It was the idea that a lich gets SOOOOO old that they actually give up their body and become nothing but a skull that sits there while they ponder the mysteries of the universe with their mind.
Now, everywhere I'm looking in products for 4e and 5e.... there's a f'ing demilich. All these demiliches, with no history to them at all. They were just cranked out of the factory... and they're servants of Szass Tam. Dude's only been a lich for a few hundred years. I kind of feel bad for reusing Ythazz Buvarr just because of all these other demiliches, except that I took the time to GIVE him a history that makes sense and would stretch back like 2500+ years.
I'm also still very pissed that they chose to use Acererak with Tomb of Annihilation. It feels sooo tacky. That plotline looks interesting, until you zoom out to the full story, and then its like "seriously, you couldn't have done this with ANY other lich". |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 20:02:30
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
'Ebil skulls' is not really a new thing, especially not in D&D. Ed just took demiliches and made them fly.
Just for once, I'd like to see an evil ribcage.
I get that -- it's just there seems to be a lot of intelligent skulls in Ed's material. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 19:10:10
'Ebil skulls' is not really a new thing, especially not in D&D. Ed just took demiliches and made them fly.
Just for once, I'd like to see an evil ribcage. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 14:19:55
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Circle of Skulls is set in Waterdeep, not Skullport. The skulls in that book are NOT the skullport skulls, they are a different group of skulls.
Lol, at least I had the disclaimer that I had not read it. So, there's ANOTHER group of skulls floating around Waterdeep getting into mischief? Damn Copycat Skulls.
Yeah - the skulls from that book were kind of a cursed group-lichnee who had ties to an archdevil. Was not really a fan. This book could be set literally anywhere in the realms (or any other D&D world) for that matter. They shoehorned it into Waterdeep and I don't think it was a good fit. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 13:54:49
It took me a while to locate the articles, but Skullport was updated to 4e, so the lore in those articles can be useful for a 5e campaign. You can check info about Skullport in Dungeon 200, and info about Skullport Inn in Dragon 425, (both magazines are available in pdf format at DMs Guild).
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 13:48:35
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Circle of Skulls is set in Waterdeep, not Skullport. The skulls in that book are NOT the skullport skulls, they are a different group of skulls.
Lol, at least I had the disclaimer that I had not read it. So, there's ANOTHER group of skulls floating around Waterdeep getting into mischief? Damn Copycat Skulls.
I think Ed likes skulls. Off the top of my head, I can think of the Skulls of Skullport, Tashara of the Seven Skulls (detailed in a Dragon Magazine write-up, an NPC known as The Skull in his Castlemourn setting (because the guy's head is just a skull, though it functions like a standard-issue head)... And I'm sure there have been others, though I'm drawing a blank on them.
(And yes, I know, we're talking about a book that was not written by Ed... I'm commenting on how it appears to reflect a general trend in Edlore.) |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 12:13:51
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Circle of Skulls is set in Waterdeep, not Skullport. The skulls in that book are NOT the skullport skulls, they are a different group of skulls.
Lol, at least I had the disclaimer that I had not read it. So, there's ANOTHER group of skulls floating around Waterdeep getting into mischief? Damn Copycat Skulls. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 08:51:36
Circle of Skulls is set in Waterdeep, not Skullport. The skulls in that book are NOT the skullport skulls, they are a different group of skulls. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 21:45:15
I like Rich's writing (and I love the man himself - he has a quick wit and is one of those 'secret scoundrel' types that comes off as a consummate gentleman... but probably has some interesting things in his closet), but I am finding it very hard to finish the Undead series in Thay. Love the characters, HATE whats going on.
I haven't had the pleasure of reading any of Erin's stuff, but I did meet her (briefly) at Gencon 2012. Beauty & brains - quite the winning combination.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
WELL SAID MARKUSTAY! +10 Likes. Elaine is SO awesome with her building of character and story. I'll also add that I really like Erin Evans in somewhat a similar fashion, though I think her storytelling would appeal more towards young girls (which hey... I'm not the only market).
Good for her. ANYthing that can bring more females into fantasy/scify, and into gaming/FR, is 120% okay in my book. Recently Mayim Balik (Amy on BBT) started playing D&D with her boys, mostly because of her character on Big Bang Theory, and she posted something about that on her FB page (I'm a fanboi... what can I say?) Its pretty awesome. Sure, I've seen - an even spoke to - other famous men who played D&D, but never a woman, and its pretty damn cool that we've come this far. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 13:54:10
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Like RAS, I think Paul Kemp's writing outweighs - and even supplants - the story itelf. Thus, the story doesn' have to be rgeat for us to enjoy it. Ed Greenwood, on the other hand, I think of in quite the opposite fashion - the man is a consumatate stroyteller (hence, his world-building skills). His writing, IMHO, isn't up to par with Salvatore's or Kemp's, but he more than makes up for it with 'meat'. They all keep me coming back, no matter how much I bitch & man about stuff.
Now, Elaine Cunnigham - she's in a class by herself. Excellent writer AND excellent storyteller - how she is not more popular/famous - like J.K. Rowling famous - I'll never know. Her Evermeet novel is probably the only book I ever reread IMMEDIATELY after finishing it... it was just THAT GOOD. I think with the right material, she could create a series that would put HP to shame.
I think the Liriel story are more timely now than when they were written - I guess 'fame & fortune' is more about timing than anything else. In this post-Hunger Games, post-Divergent (and current 'Eleven' Stranger Things) social climate, the Liriel dark elf character has TONS of traction.
WELL SAID MARKUSTAY! +10 Likes. Elaine is SO awesome with her building of character and story. I'll also add that I really like Erin Evans in somewhat a similar fashion, though I think her storytelling would appeal more towards young girls (which hey... I'm not the only market).
I'll also say I agree with the stuff about Ed's novels versus his game material. He's definitely better at the game material... BUT his novels are incredibly complex. On some of them it just feels rushed, such that if he'd had more time it could have turned out better. I actually think Ed would make an excellent... how to phrase it... support author? Basically, take an author and have Ed work with them. Spread his wealth of ideas and lore. It may be too hard for him to do though (especially now). But that's hindsight, which is always 20/20 (or so we think).
I'd also say that I love Steven Schend, and he has done at least one great novel (did he do more besides Blackstaff?), but both he and Eric Boyd would fit better like Ed as "support authors". That being said, I'd sacrifice a small child to have Eric pumping out more lore. Of course, the problem is neither of them WORK for WotC, and they probably have daily work jobs like mine that are killing them slowly.
Then there's the other authors that I loved. Richard Lee Beyers, for having destroyed many things that I loved because he was forced to, is still a favorite of mine. His characters are great. I loved Mel Odom's characters as well in his novels, as I felt like he really knew the realms. Oh, and Mark Sehedestedt who wrote the novel around the eastern Lythari was pretty good. James P. Davis who wrote Shield of Weeping Ghosts and Bloodwalk was ok (I could have just been happy seeing a Durthan), but I never read Restless Shore or Circle of Skulls by him.
WHICH BRINGS US FULL CIRCLE BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND --- Like how I did that?
Ummmmm, go read Circle of Skulls by James P. Davis.... I haven't but I'm pretty sure it has like all kinds of updates on Skullport. No, honestly, I didn't just talk myself into a circle and end up here. I, um, meant to get here. I'm awesome like that. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 06:40:08
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, my fave character from the series was the fashion-conscious slaad. The idea of an extra-planar critter being so concerned about his attire was a delightful variation from the norm, and made him stand out far more than any of the others, for me.
Little to comic for me. |
| Storyteller Hero |
Posted - 17 Jan 2018 : 21:00:57
Faerun History on YouTube made a video on the History of Skullport. It's an interesting watch.
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 17 Jan 2018 : 20:56:32
Like RAS, I think Paul Kemp's writing outweighs - and even supplants - the story itelf. Thus, the story doesn't have to be great for us to enjoy it. Ed Greenwood, on the other hand, I think of in quite the opposite fashion - the man is a consummate storyteller (hence, his world-building skills). His writing, IMHO, isn't up to par with Salvatore's or Kemp's, but he more than makes up for it with 'meat'. They all keep me coming back, no matter how much I bitch & moan about stuff.
Now, Elaine Cunnigham - she's in a class by herself. Excellent writer AND excellent storyteller - how she is not more popular/famous - like J.K. Rowling famous - I'll never know. Her Evermeet novel is probably the only book I ever reread IMMEDIATELY after finishing it... it was just THAT GOOD. I think with the right material, she could create a series that would put HP to shame.
I think the Liriel story is more timely now than when they were written - I guess 'fame & fortune' is more about timing than anything else. In this post-Hunger Games, post-Divergent (and current 'Eleven' Stranger Things) social climate, the Liriel dark elf character has TONS of traction.
EDIT:
In Netflix recent Brightmovie, the female elf (Tikka) that 'turned good' from being bad is a perfect example of exactly that type of character - she was my favorite part of the movie (Will Smith is always fun to watch, but he's basically the same character every time).
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, my fave character from the series was the fashion-conscious slaad. The idea of an extra-planar critter being so concerned about his attire was a delightful variation from the norm, and made him stand out far more than any of the others, for me.
Agreed.
He reminded me of an anime villain, who sadly, tend to be much better developed than most movie, novel, or TV show villains these days. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Jan 2018 : 20:44:40
Actually, my fave character from the series was the fashion-conscious slaad. The idea of an extra-planar critter being so concerned about his attire was a delightful variation from the norm, and made him stand out far more than any of the others, for me. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 17 Jan 2018 : 19:30:32
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I wasn't as impressed with the series, myself -- and that ending made me want to hurl the book across the room.
I know right?
I thought the Sojourner was among the best new villians and wham bam - he just likes shade. Seriously how lame.
I did love Cale though. The scenes where he's struggling between choosing a normal life and seizing power were great. Then he'd go all out bad-ass and then boomerang back to doubt.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, the shadow thing predates Erevis Cale. They started that with the advent of 3E and the return of Shade. Suddenly, just about every other established force for evil in the Realms was suddenly kicked to the side, and it became ALL SHAR, ALL THE TIME. Which was even more inexplicable, to me, because Mask had Shadows as one of his portfolios.
True, Shade was the other half of the shadow coin and it did come first. The whole shadow thing bothers me a lot. I used to love the shadows sub-plots. The old Shadowlord books from the Harppers series were great yet after they came out the whole Realms did not go shadow crazy. |
|
|
