| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 27 Aug 2017 : 06:18:30
 the "Returned" is catchy enough, so...
Anyways, reading sleyvas' ideas I became quite interested in this place (in fact the Realms have a lot of interesting places, but I prefer places that aren't so much touched by official products). I want to update the place to 5e, because the SCAG is really straightforward with this: " Halruaans diviners managed to foresee what would happen, and as a collective effort they managed to shift their nation to Abeir. They then came back in the Sundering".
However, this leaves a few questions in the air. First, the Halruaan diviners used the Spellplague. But the Spellplague mutated anything it touched, even gods and the planes themselves. Why the Halruaan diviners would came unscathed when gods didn't could?
Second, Halruaa is one of those places that went to Abeir and back again, so I guess that much of what we know about it is not true anymore. There must be changes (a century of changes).
So, I'm using Ed's posts about what beheld to Halruaa during the catastrophe, as well as stealing some of Markustay's ideas I found here.
Having that into account, here we go.
Ed's idea is that "there were times as Abeir and Toril passed through each other that Halruaa was "gone"/incommunicado vis-a-vis the rest of Faerûn" and "caught in mid-dimensional segueing between Abeir and Toril (and not the entire country as a neat whole unit, but bits and pieces of it in a very localized fashion)."
If my english isn't as bad as I think it is, I guess this means Halruaa was "hopping" between Abeir and Toril, and not as a whole country, but as a phenomena that affected regions differently. Like, this city was in Abeir, this one not, and that every settlement may have been blinking in at its own pace (like this city stayed in Abeir for a year, then returned to Toril for another year, and then blinked back to Abeir, etc; while this other was blinking every few minutes, and this other went to Abeir and didn't returned for the whole century).
This is as I understand it, and as I want it to use the idea. I can even imagine that, after a period of blinking, most of Halruaa went to Abeir permanently (in that century, I mean). Perhaps, wen the Wailing Years ended.
This will allow for the Halruaans to interact with a few Abeirans, and eventually integrate them in their society. I have plans for a clan of dragonborn they met in Abeir and helped them, in fact (is the idea I was developing for Maztica, but Seethyr disappeared and I don't want to waste my idea).
As for the Spellplague, Ed's said that many wizards either went mad or died. And we know Halarahh, the capital, remained in Toril as a ruin in 4e.
We can use that. Maybe, see this as their "price". Yeah, the diviners tried to save Halruaa, and sent it to Abeir (yet, their spell went wrong, leaving all their cities blinking between worlds and such). But they died, consumed in the blue flames. And Halarahh was left in Toril, a ruin, destroyed by the Spellplague.
Another stuff to think about is the passage of time. Did time froze or move slower/faster while they were blinking? Or just moved normally? For what I read in Ed's post, it seems that Halruaans advanced in some form (they changed some of their points of view and became more militaristic), so I'm going to assume that time moved normally. (Or perhaps moved differently between blinking zones?)
Now, we know Halruaans placed wizardry over another forms of using magic, before the Spellplague. Sorcery was shunned and that stuff. Yet, wizardry failed them terribly in the Spellplague, while sorcery may have been the way that allowed some Halruaans to deal with some of the dangers of Abeir (as sorcery is perhaps the only magic you can use there naturally).
At least in their first years in Abeir they had to relay in sorcerers. And that means that their opinion about them may have changed. If sorcerers are not more important than wizards in current Halruaa, at least they are at their same social status.
Their interaction with the Abeirans may have allowed them to improve their technology (canon, Abeir is more technologically advanced that Toril; even the Lantana improved their technology while on Abeir, according to the SCAG). Perhaps to the level of Eberron, or at least close to it.
Another stuff I like to use in new Halruaa is the "mournland" idea Markustay suggested. If not in all the country, at least in the places more affected by the Spellplague (like Halarahh). Or perhaps all the heartlands got "mourned" and the current Halruaans live in the outskirts of their country, or in earthmotes.
What do you think? Any ideas? Or rotten tomatoes? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 04:20:26
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Thats just what they want folks to believe - Ed was always about giving PCs (and NPCs) 'special stuff' that fell outside of the rules - just look at Spellfire. We've also 'Wild magic talents' (and mutations), and we've got TONS of lore (novel & source) about people coming into contact with something they shouldn't have and suddenly gaining new abilities (and perhaps changing themselves, both within and without). Hell, the whole thing with Tieflings is a mass mutagenic affect.
The old 'Wild Talent' psionic rules also falls under this category. Can anyone say "Elminster's School for Gifted Youngsters". 
Or to put it another way, what a bunch of guys 3500 miles away from me decided to do in a sourcebook has absolutely no affect on what happens at my table. 
Yeah, this kind of thing was standard a long time ago. The rules were really there to build on, not to stop you from doing things. Some of the characters you used to see at the old Milwaukee Gen Cons had some strange powers and stuff to spice things up. I remember Gary G. had an old wizard NPC that to me seemed very much like Elminster, except he had some sort of power over basically every other wizard. If you got too out of line suddenly you could find yourself in a dungeon with no spells and at the mercy of your non-spellcaster allies. It made for some creative crazy ideas from the people, and really kept wizard players under control. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 03:57:08
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Not directly related to the topic, but the stuff you wrote there Zeromaru (and your work IS 'good enough' to go on the DM's guild - you should put your 'History of the Nentir Vale' on there as a 'pay what you want' - you should be rewarded for that magnificent effort. Its basically the D&D version of what the James Brothers did when they created the first Grand History (and you see how that worked at for them, eh?)
I'd love to, but I don't think this can be possible. I mean, DM's Guild doesn't cover the Nentir Vale IP... I guess I'm gonna ask Mike Mearls or Chris Perkins about it (they seem to be very reachable on Twitter).
As for the "personal weaves", indeed I had the idea of create small mhaerkyral amulets than can give a wizard the ability to cast magic in a low level-magical world... (or Weave-less world, perhaps? Now that is canon that the Weave is a multiversal thing present in some worlds, I guess Weave-less is a better term). As you suggest, the mhaerkyral amulets should be attune-able items, perhaps quasi-intelligent, just working for one person. If another get them, the amulets would be useless.
If you go with the amulet idea, I'd also make them be of a limited duration. Maybe they only work for a week or so, when outside the area of the larger mhaerkyral, and then need to be taken back to be recharged for at least a week. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 01:05:09
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Not directly related to the topic, but the stuff you wrote there Zeromaru (and your work IS 'good enough' to go on the DM's guild - you should put your 'History of the Nentir Vale' on there as a 'pay what you want' - you should be rewarded for that magnificent effort. Its basically the D&D version of what the James Brothers did when they created the first Grand History (and you see how that worked at for them, eh?)
I'd love to, but I don't think this can be possible. I mean, DM's Guild doesn't cover the Nentir Vale IP... I guess I'm gonna ask Mike Mearls or Chris Perkins about it (they seem to be very reachable on Twitter).
As for the "personal weaves", indeed I had the idea of create small mhaerkyral amulets than can give a wizard the ability to cast magic in a low level-magical world... (or Weave-less world, perhaps? Now that is canon that the Weave is a multiversal thing present in some worlds, I guess Weave-less is a better term). As you suggest, the mhaerkyral amulets should be attune-able items, perhaps quasi-intelligent, just working for one person. If another get them, the amulets would be useless. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 18:33:48
Not directly related to the topic, but the stuff you wrote there Zeromaru (and your work IS 'good enough' to go on the DM's guild - you should put your 'History of the Nentir Vale' on there as a 'pay what you want' - you should be rewarded for that magnificent effort. Its basically the D&D version of what the James Brothers did when they created the first Grand History (and you see how that worked at for them, eh?)
Now, if someone had the time to merge all that together into the Chronology of the Primes, that would be awesome.
Anyway, getting back to why I posted - using Torillian (or just 'Arcane') magic on magic-dead or just magic-light worlds. We've always had a problem with this, and official writers seem to prefer to simply ignore the elephant in the room. WHY can Torillian (Weave) caster use magic elsewhere? I like your ideas about creating mini-weaves; little bubbles of magic where it would work like folk are use to. But what about doing something like that on a more personal level? The following are just some new theories of mine...
Chosen. And not just any chosen... THE Chosen. Mystryl/Mystra's. They are literally 'pieces of Weave' incarnate, because they contain 'shards' (tiny pieces) of Mystra herself, and Mystra IS The Weave. This actually explains almost everything - in the same nanner that SJ vessels carry air-bubblesa round them automatically, so too, do the Chosen carry 'magic bubbles' around them, automatically. the size of the bubble would reflect the power-level of the Chosen (Elminster's, for example, would be exponential compared to most others - like maybe as much as a mile!) However, as they use their magic away from the weave, these bubbles would shrink, until their was nothing left, so they can't just go around casting their magic 'elsewhere' all willy-nilly. When Elminster got to hell, his 'bubble' had already shrunk to nothing when he repaired the rip in the Weave, so he didn't have his little Weave bubble with him (and we see what happened to him, so thats a situation Chosen would avoid).
This also means people traveling with them - that are 'within the Chosen bubble' - can also cast spells (and they would also be draining the bubble as well). When they get back to Toril (or just Realmspace), they would function like 'Weavetaps', drawing in energy instead 9repleishing their personal bubbles). On some worlds (like Oerth), there may be a similar 'magical web/interface' they can draw off of, but being non-native, they'd be using some of that power like an 'adapter' (like when we travel abroad and need adapters for our electrical gear), so it wouldn't be nearly as efficient (However, a Mage can attune themselves to a different 'weave' over time, and could even possibly have 'dual Sphere-ship', being able to use two (or more) magical weaves with equal aplomb.
One Caveat: Outside the Prime Material, all the rules change, and this effect is subject to the local physics. In Ravenloft, there is NO 'magical Weave'. NONE. Not only that, but a Chosen (Exarch, demipower, etc.) would quickly be drained of their personal 'bubble' - the Shadowfell has a life-sucking effect on magic that completely drains sources. Magic will still work in such environments, but it s 'internalized' (drawing from the stamina of the caster), so all effects are much weaker, and powerful magic is almost impossible. On the other hand, the Feywild used Raw Magic (No 'weave/web'), but magic is EVEYWHERE. If you learn how to 'channel it' directly - as fey do - then you can actually become even more powerful than you were 'back home'. this takes a LOT of time and practice, and for most mortals they could easily exceed their current limitations and burn themselves up completely (by casting spells that are just too powerful for them to control). Come to think of it, this might be whats going on with the Elves on Toril - the Raw magic there is just TOO powerful, and their 'Elven High Magic' rituals can't handle it (look at me, accidentally defending the elves LOL).
Moving on...
So, I can finally get to what I REALLY wanted to post about - Magic Torcs. These would be the most common form such items could take, but there could be others. Basically, it would be an artificial way of doing what Exarchs do naturally - carry a piece of their own 'magic bubble' with time. This would be a personal item only (although artifacts with greater power/range could exist). It would enable a non-native caster to cast like a native in a magical environment (going from Toril to Oerth, or Krynn, etc.), and be able to cast somewhat weaker in a non-Weave* environment, like maybe Earth, or Athas (where Raw Magic would still exist, but the Leylines have been broken/disrupted, probably by a lack of 'Gods'). Places that are just plain 'magically dead', like locales in the Shadowfell (tDoD), or even 'Magic Dead Zones' from 2e FR, you would have extremely limited use of magic; you are using the Torc as a 'battery' (Green Lantern?) and it it will run out fairly quickly (and if you drain it completely before you get it to an environment where it can 'recharge' off the local Raw magic, it can break. Kind of like how when your car ran out of gas 'back in the old days', you'd have to prime the carburetor to get the engine restarted (so an artificer would have to 'prime' the thing with magic again).
Just some ideas I had because of the topic - its a nifty McGuffin to explain why sometimes characters are doing something they really sholdn't be able to do (the author merely neglected to mention the Torc, or whatever). And if you want an in-setting explanation for that, that's easy as pie (I hate that expression - cobbler is easy, pie is somewhat harder). The character never brings it up, because that would be like a 'Super' bringing up their weakness - it would be stupid as hell. "You can't kill me! You don't have any Cornbread! Oh... wait... crap... DAMMIT!"
*I need a better, non-Torillian (The Weave) term for these generic magical fields. Urmythal? 'Myth' should definitely somehow be incorporated. All worlds should at least have a very basic one, unless something very bad happened, like on Athas. I mentioned above about them existing only when a world has Gods (or maybe just an overpower? Eberron becomes a problem here... like usual). Perhaps, the more gods a world has, the more powerful this Weave becomes? That could really explain quite a few other things...
Could 'Divine Worship' really just be Mana? When no-one is worshiping anything, the field simply collapses?  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 15:27:42
Some good stuff. If I wasn't determined to simply ignore the Spellplague, I'd likely incorporate this into my personal Realms.  |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 14:07:55
Usually, when insomnia hits me hard, I have the ideas. So, I've been refining my Lost Century history of Halruaa. Dunno if I will publish this on DM's Guild someday (I don't feel at that level yet), but I wanted to share the improvements with you.
As George suggested, I've changed the draconic names. It helped that I found a list of draconic words that really add variety to the limited vocabolary in Races of the Dragon/Draconomicon. I'm going to post the name meanings later in the post.
I've included a few ideas provided by sleyvas and Wooly. I also stole the idea of not letting die the Crinti, so a few Crinti survived the trip to Abeir and joined the Halruaans.
1385 DR: Year of Blue Flame – The Spellplague
Toril:
At some point before Tarsakh 29, Zalathorm and his diviners predicted the death of Mystra and the destruction of the Weave (in fact, the goddess was aware of her demise and asked Savras to warm his most powerful followers in the world of the impending doom), and began to develop countermeasures against the potential devastation. Zalathorm alerted all wizards and priests across the kingdom, and they began to prepare their magical shields and other defenses accordingly. In no time teleportation and scrying across Halruaa became impossible and most divination magic became unreliable. A few Halruaans prepared their skyships to leave the country as soon as possible.
Then the Spellplague hit.
As dusk fell on Tarsakh 29, a menacing storm began forming over the Mhair Jungles west of Halruaa. Beyond its massive size, the storm was particularly notable for the ribbons of blue flame that seemed to writhe and flow among its formations. In the mountains near Lhair, dumbfounded priests watched in absolute silence, unable to comprehend the terrible events unfolding on the horizon. Then, the cerulean flames engulfed Halruaa.
On Halarahh, Zalathorm and other powerful wizards from the Council of Elders used their arcane prowess to channel the magical energy of the Blue Fire into a new world... Abeir, a world formerly hidden to Torilians until that day. In a last ditch effort, they casted a powerful spell to transport their nation to that other world, while displacing whatever lands (and peoples) on that region to the Plane of Shadow. But the Spellplague was no regular magical energy and the wizards could not completely control its power. Halarahh was wiped out in an explosion so powerful that was felt even in faraway Waterdeep.
Many Halruaans died when magic went wild and structures that depended on magic collapsed and active magic turned chaotic, and so on. At the same time, many wizards went insane or got brain-burned or were killed when caught in their own spells going chaotic. Other wizards, among those some unaware of what was happening, activated all their defensive spells, so more shields went up, many of them twisted or going wild as the Spellplague consumed the land.
The three great mountain ranges that oft protected the nation from external invasion actually made it difficult for those Halruaans fleeing in skyships to escape the uncontrolled wild magic unleashed across the countryside. Many of them died while fleeing, as their skyships ceased to function and crashed against the mountains, or were consumed by the Blue Fire.
Halruaa finally was laid to waste due to the heavy wild magic activity in the area, as flesh, stone, magic, space, and perhaps even the flow of time was twisted and defiled, becoming into what was later known as the “Plaguelands”. Only the lands of Yaulazna, a pirate haven in the Sea of the Pirates, survived thanks to a strange effect given to the magical shields by the Spellplague, turning the land into an earthmote.
While the earthmote of Yaulazna survived nearly intact, the following months are wrought with confusion and social chaos, as the Yaulaznan pirates and a few Halruaan survivors, confused by all that has transpired, turned against each other for resources and out of grief and fear.
The magical shields and other defenses activated by the powerful Halruaan wizards were changed by the spell cast by Zalathorm and his fellow wizards, and also by the unpredictable nature of the Spellplague. Every settlement protected by a magical shield began to “blink” between dimensions, trapped in a seemingly unending teleportation loop between Abeir and Toril...
Abeir:
The Suranthar was a desert full of ruins of an ancient draconic empire, destroyed long ago during the first years of the Rule of Dragons. Nobody dared to occupy those ruins until the return of the Despot of Shyr. Dragons feared him but also loathed and despised him. And so the powerful red dragon known as Aerosmaughathrax, the Colossal Fire, conquered that land in defiance, hoping to amass a large and powerful army to destroy Karshimis and become the new ruler of Shyr.
As with all dragons, the armies of Aerosmaughathrax were composed of flights of minor dragons and also by slaves, mostly dragonborn, but also humans and dwarves as well. Aerosmaughathrax’s army had been fighting for years, sometimes winning, some others losing, but by the 723rd year of the 36th Cycle they had conquered the ancient city of Io’vanthor, the capitol of the forgotten empire, and had amassed enough numbers that even Karshimis saw them a force to be reckoned with.
That day, the slave-armies of the Colossal Fire were fighting against a regiment of genies, genasi and their human slaves, the defenders of the southern frontier of Shyr. If Aerosmaughathrax could win that battle, other dragons would join forces with him, and then they would become into flight of dragons like those of the War of Fang and Talon, an army that even Karshimis would fear…
Then the Blue Breath of Change hit.
As dusk fell on the battlefield, as armies marched one against the other, amid the chaos of war, a powerful earthquake rocked the world. Abeir was shocked to its very core and even mountains crumbled. As reality began to being unmade, cerulean flames appeared from nothingness and engulfed all. The Shyran warriors and the slave armies alike, the ruins of Suranthar… all disappeared in a heartbeat, replaced by strange buildings that “blinked” amid the cerulean fire.
As in Toril, many spellcasters died or went mad when magic turned to chaos. The casualties were lesser, however, as Abeiran spellcasters were rare.
The rear forces of the slave-army of Aerosmaughathrax, the Colossal Fire, survived the plague of change. During the final months of the 723rd year of the 36th Cycle, they had to fight plaguechanged horrors (former comrades turned into monsters by the Blue Fire, or creatures spawned from the cities among the flames) while looking for other survivors. In the meantime, they realized that Aerosmaughathrax was no more, as he and his dragon lieutenants had disappeared within the cerulean flames.
The Blue Breath of Change had gifted them with their most desired wish: freedom…
1386 DR: Year of the Halfling’s Lament
Toril:
Halruaa is a wasteland. The Spellplague mutates the land, reshaping reality into a chaotic, alien landscape. Most of the Halruaan cities are still blinking between worlds, trapped helplessly within the dimensional magic that protects them from the chaos of change. Halarahh, one of the few remaining “fixed” features in reality, was a city of ghosts and fallen wonders.
In Yaulazna, civil unrest came to an end by the Claw of Sunsets, and the surviving Yaulaznan pirates and Halruaans joined forces to reclaim some skyships from the lizardfolk of Rethild, eventually founding what is known today as the Five Companies.
In the following months, Halruaa is deemed lost… for the rest of Faerûn, the kingdom of the greatest wizards has been destroyed.
Abeir:
Earthquakes rock the world while other natural catastrophes devastate the lands. It’s rumored that a whole continent, Laerakond, has disappeared and that strange lands and peoples had began to appear in the world. While southern Shyr is not hit as hard as the northern lands, the lands are ravaged by the chaos, nonetheless. In Suranthar, the blinking Halruaan cities transform the landscape into a highly magical zone, something pretty rare in the usually low magical nature of Abeir. Of the ruins of the ancient draconic empire, most are lost. Only the ancient Io’vanthor withstands the chaos, unscathed.
The survivors of the army of Aerosmaughathrax, now calling themselves the Throden Tanarvraki (Sons of Liberty Coalition), have gained control of some of the ruins, founded small settlements and tamed the land, maintaining the plaguechanged creatures of Suranthar at bay. Shyrans shun the place altogether, fearing the magical chaos that now suffuses the area.
By the end of the year, the fortress of Talathgard is released from the dimensional magic. Members of clan Baharoosh (a dragonborn clan) meet with the Halruaan survivors. Although confused at first, communication became possible thanks to the Halruaans being fluent in draconic.
A few Magehounds join forces with the Throden Tanarvraki, while the rest of the Halruaan populace begins to explore their new world.
1387 DR: Year of the Emerald Ermine
Abeir:
The outlying Halruaan settlements began to stabilize and appear on Abeir, allowing the Throden Tanarvraki to help the survivors. Unable to use magic (because of the wild magic planetary effects of the Spellplague during the Wailing Years), Halruaan society divides into two factions: people afraid of magic at all, who wanted to have nothing to do with it; and people who want to recover the use of magic. They began to explore the remaining ruins of ancient Suranthar in search of any information about Abeir. With the help of the Throden Tanarvraki, Halruaans begin to explore Io’vanthor.
Having lost access to the Art, some Halruaans begin cross-training with the Tanarvraki in swordplay and martial defense. In years to come these swordmages will prove invaluable against neighboring aggression in the region.
1389 DR: Year of the Forgiven Foes
Toril:
Members of the Five Companies discover that a few smaller settlements near the Bay of Azuth, as well as the town of Zalazuu, have “survived” the Spellplague (in fact, those settlements were freed of the dimensional magic on Toril). Determined to salvage what they could of their country and protect their remaining settlements, the Five Companies spread rumours about the total annihilation of Halruaa. The Halruaans survivors began to study the Plaguelands to discover a means to control the plague effects in an attempt to restore their lands.
Abeir:
A force of Shyran soldiers try to retake the lands of Suranthar after discovering that the Halruaan settlements were free of the magical chaos and had begun to thrive in the harsh desert, and the Throden Tanarvraki, with a limited number of warriors, is barely able to defend itself. After a devastating battle the Shyran forces retreat but the Tanarvraki lost most of their numbers. A few Halruaans flee to the north, having heard rumours about of some place named Pelevaran.
1390 DR: Year of the Walking Man
Abeir:
As the blue flames begin to disappear, Halruaans marvel after discovering that many of their fertile lands from Toril were transferred to Abeir as well. While the outer borderlands of Halruaa are a desert, the rest of their lands are bountiful and fertile. In a few months, farming settlements are established across the countryside. Herds of rothés and aurochs are found to have survived the magical upheaval as well.
1392 DR: Year of the Scroll
Abeir:
Another bunch of Halruaan cities, this time the settlements closer to the heartlands, stabilize on Abeir and the survivors join the almost defunct Throden Tanarvraki (it has been decimated fighting plaguechanged horrors). The expedition team discovers the old library of Io’vanthor, full of strange arcane lore dating back to the Time of the Dawn Titans. Halruaan wizards begin the experiments that in years to come will allow their wizards to use magic freely in Abeir.
With the Nath being released of the dimensional magic on Abeir, the Throden Tanarvraki found a group of Crinti survivors (invaders who wanted to raid the Nath, as usual, but became trapped within one the magical barriers during the Spellplague). After days of deliberation the Crinti decided to join the Tanarvraki, out of necessity to survive in the new world. While the Halruaans didn’t like this decision, some of them supported them because they were aware of the dangers of Abeir.
1393 DR: Year of the Ring
Abeir:
Clans of slaves from Shyr (mostly dragonborn and humans) flee to Suranthar due to civil unrest in their lands. Those clans join the Tanarvraki. With their forces bolstered, the Tanarvraki are able to tame the lands by the end of the year, driving away the plaguechanged horrors and other beasts of the desert, as well as the invaders from Shyr.
1395 DR: Year of Silent Death
Abeir:
Most of the effects of the Spellplague had come to an end by this year and magic surges wild and uncontrolled. Because of this surge of magic, many Halruaans and individuals from the Throden Tanarvraki become sorcerers (wild magic source, unless dragonborn, who develop dragon magic instead). With their power boosted by magic, the Throden Tanarvraki and the Halruaans soon become a force to be reckoned with.
Halagard stabilizes in Abeir, and Zalathorm is among its inhabitants. How Zalathorm ended there or how he survived is something that even he doesn't understand. He is the only known survivor of the destruction of Halarahh (a city that was not transported to Abeir).
Zalathorm join forces with the Halruaan wizards in Io’vanthor to develop a mhaerkyral using fragments of a mysterious, yet magically powerful rock (in truth, the remains of an ancient primordial).
1400 DR: Year of Lost Ships
Abeir:
Using the powerful mhaerkyral, Zalathorm and his wizards are able to create an “artificial weave” across the lands of Suranthar and Halruaa, enabling spellcasters to use magic within those lands. Zalathorm reinstates the nation of Halruaa, now in the world of Abeir.
Not long after, the Halruaans repel another Shyran invasion, with the usual help of the Throden Tanarvraki. Some diplomats of a coalition of cities known as the Tarchs of Pelevaran appear in Halruaa asking for the Halruaans to join them, but Zalathorm declines. As some members of this group are Thayans, they are not allowed to remain in Halruaan lands.
1400 DR to 1487 DR — The “Endless Wars”
After the creation of a network of mhaerkyrals to enable non-innate spellcasters (such as wizards) to attune themselves with the raw magic of Abeir, in 1400 DR, a new Council of Elders was put in place and Halruaa began to rebuilt. Grateful with the Throden Tanarvraki, as well as acknowledging the benefits of an alliance with natives of Abeir, the Council of Elders allowed the assorted coalition of dragonborn clans, Abeiran humans and dwarves, and the few Crinti survivors to become full citizens of Halruaa, giving them full rights in their society. Not long after, Halruaan agents began to explore the new world.
As wizardry was still unreliable (even with the network, wizards had to relearn how to use magic in a world without the Weave), sorcerers became prominent in this new age. As wizards were unable to properly use their magic beyond the lands of Halruaa, only sorcerers were permitted to travel to the outside world. The social stigma against them began to fade away as even the most old-fashioned traditionalists saw that they needed them.
Warlocks began to appear in the first decade of the 15th century DR, when some Halruaans heard the call of otherworldly powers. Although initially mistrusted, warlocks also became assets when the Shyran invasion began. By 1450 DR warlocks were openly accepted in society, even if grudgingly.
Abeir was unlike Toril. A savage world of oppression and slavery. Most of the land known as Shyr was dominated by a primordial, Karshimis the Despot, a cruel ruler that only cared for itself. Genies and genasi were the upper-class citizens, while members of any other races were just expendable slaves. In those lands were Karshimis did not rule, the Dragon Tyrants were supreme. And they considered all non-dragons as beneath them, just worthy of being slaves. All dragons in Abeir were evil, even metallics. They fought against Karshimis in brutal wars for domination. For dragons and genies, the “lesser” beings were expendable, acceptable collateral damage in their eternal struggle.
Halruaans had to rethink their pacific ways if they wanted to survive in such a harsh world. This became a necessity when, in 1402 DR, the Shyran army started an invasion of Halruaa with brutal force. Karshimis had regained control of its lands, put down rebellions and even killed a pair of Dragon Tyrants. Now, Karshimis wanted to subdue this upstart nation. While Halruaan wizards were powerful within the boundaries of their lands, this was not a deterrent like it had been in Toril. The genies also had powerful magic at their disposal and the advantage of playing in their homeland. It was only the expertise of guerrilla warfare members of the Throden Tanarvraki provided that allowed the existence of Halruaa as a free nation.
Because of this state of permanent warfare, always repelling invasions time and again, against superior numbers that had powerful magic at their disposition, the Halruaans never were able to fully rebuild their settlements. They became a highly militaristic people, much like the dragonborn clans that were helping them. While most wizards regained their old magic practices, the favored magic style among the vast majority of them was war magic. The wizards and artificers began to repair guardian constructs, or to create new ones, quickly learning how to dominate Abeir’s superior technology. Their dwellings became small fortresses. Struggle for survival shaped their culture.
Despite the fact that nearly all the effects of the Spellplague had ended by 1395 DR, its magic continued to affect the Halruaan settlements (this was because Halruaa was a plagueland in Toril). Every few months some settlement blinked between dimensions, retuning to Toril for a few days before returning to Abeir. It was during one of those “worldfalls” (as the transposition was called), in 1413 DR, that the Abeiran Halruaans made contact with the members of the Five Companies and the remaining Torilian Halruaans.
The Five Companies had thrived. They became highly regarded as mercenaries and smugglers across all of Faerûn. Then, one day, the skyship of the Yargo Company spotted Halagard. After the initial surprise, things went tense for a time. Then old Zuusted Nimderval took charge of the situation. Soon he learned about the fate of the Halruaans in Abeir and decided to go to the other world in the next “worldfall”. After meeting Zalathorm and the Council of Elders, a plan was put into action.
The Five Companies became Halruaa’s connection with Toril. They began to get magical items and other stuff for the Abeiran Halruaan’s (smuggled to Abeir when some settlement blinked between worlds), and also became their eyes and ears in Faerûn. In exchange, the leaders of the Five Companies got a few rare Abeiran magical items salvaged from Io’vanthor, and some Abeiran Halruaans (among them a few true Abeirans from the Tanarvraki) joined the Five Companies ranks from time to time, to get more training and to help the mercenaries in their endeavors.
Over time, Halruaan society changed (an endless war of almost 100 years changed them). Every family began to question their beliefs, their former ways and philosophies, their laws and customs, their reliance on magic, assumptions about their place in the world…
And then, the Second Sundering happened. And their world again changed.
In 1487 DR, Halruaa suffered its last “worldfall”, but this one affected the entire region, and because of their mhaerkyral network, it not only affected the original Halruaan settlements but also the new ones created in Abeir and the ruins of Suranthar that had been permeated with the magical energy of the mhaerkyrals (including Io’vanthor).
As with the Spellplague, there were losses again. The Second Sundering wasn’t selective. The Halruaans that weren’t within the influence of the mhaerkyral network were left behind in Abeir. This only helped to fuel the paranoia of current day Halruaans. They began again to adapt to a new world. Most Halruaans experimented a renewed interest in the gods of magic and knowledge after the return to Toril, thanks to their experiences in Abeir. Even faiths such as that of Leira and Kereska Wonderbringer, are now accepted in Halruaan society.
The Halruaan spellcasters adapted to the new, rebuilt Weave, and began to set powerful defenses and to improve the war-focused magic. “Halruaa will not be taken by surprise next time”, is the motto.
Thanks to the influence of the Five Companies, the returned Halruaans set forth in new skyships—better than their old ones, thanks to improvements from adapting Abeiran technology—to explore the new world. The rest of Faerûn knows the Kingdom of Wizards has returned, but they are unaware of their struggles, of their victories and loses.
Zalathorm is old and tired. He wants to retire now. Even if he doesn’t admit it loudly, the Spellplague and a century of fighting have taken its toll. He is not the same powerful wizard he was a century before. As of 1489 DR, there were plans to elect a new Netyarch...
Name meanings
Suranthar: A modification of the draconic words Surr (Wasteland) and Anthar (Dismal). So, Dismal Wasteland. The full name is the Suranthar Desert, so in draconic would be like the Ua Suranthar (Ua means Desolation, but, as D&D draconic is a language of approximates, that can be used as an approximation to desert).
Throden Tanarvraki: Throden means many, so can be an approx to coalition or union. Tanarvraki is from Tanarg, what means chaos or freedom; vrak, what means son, and the suffix -i, that is just decorative. So, the Sons of Freedom, or more like the Sons of Liberty. (Because it is not a reference to Metal Gear )
The Crinti unit within the Tanarvraki ranks is called the "Isto Molo", or Night Wraiths in drowish. They are elite spies, assassins, infiltrators... and such stuff.
Mhaerkyral: Wooly's idea. So, he called it "Weave Anchor". I presume the word is either "Netherese" or "Halruaan". How the mhaerkyrals work? They absorb the ambient/raw magic and processes it, refining it for secure use. So, they are effectively an artificial Weave, allowing spellcasters to use magic as normal in world were magic is usually blocked.
Now, currently Halruaa is back on Toril, but the mhaerkyral was brought to Toril as well. How this "artificial Weave" acts with the real Weave? The mhaerkyrals can serve like amplifiers, basically powering up any spells cast within Halruaan lands (In 5e terms, you can cast the spell as if using an higher lever spell slot without actually spending that higher spell slot; as this can be broken, it just works up to 5th level spells—it reflects the fact that in Abeir, the setting is "low magic").
With the mhaerkyral network working on Abeir, I guess that Halruaa would become a little bit Eberronish, with minor mages providing magical electric power and that stuff.
Next I will working in the nation of Halruaa. Or republic, as Markustay calls it. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 28 Oct 2017 : 05:43:57
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Thats just what they want folks to believe - Ed was always about giving PCs (and NPCs) 'special stuff' that fell outside of the rules - just look at Spellfire. We've also 'Wild magic talents' (and mutations), and we've got TONS of lore (novel & source) about people coming into contact with something they shouldn't have and suddenly gaining new abilities (and perhaps changing themselves, both within and without). Hell, the whole thing with Tieflings is a mass mutagenic affect.
The old 'Wild Talent' psionic rules also falls under this category. Can anyone say "Elminster's School for Gifted Youngsters".
Or to put it another way, what a bunch of guys 3500 miles away from me decided to do in a sourcebook has absolutely no affect on what happens at my table.
I heard there was one guy... got bit by a spider in an area of wild magic.... he could walk on walls, had a tingly spider like sense, a huge growth in strength, and the ability to shoot webbing from his wrists. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Oct 2017 : 02:03:36
Thats just what they want folks to believe - Ed was always about giving PCs (and NPCs) 'special stuff' that fell outside of the rules - just look at Spellfire. We've also 'Wild magic talents' (and mutations), and we've got TONS of lore (novel & source) about people coming into contact with something they shouldn't have and suddenly gaining new abilities (and perhaps changing themselves, both within and without). Hell, the whole thing with Tieflings is a mass mutagenic affect.
The old 'Wild Talent' psionic rules also falls under this category. Can anyone say "Elminster's School for Gifted Youngsters".
Or to put it another way, what a bunch of guys 3500 miles away from me decided to do in a sourcebook has absolutely no affect on what happens at my table. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 22:12:25
I guess the spellscars were more like the aberrant dragonmarks, not the normal dragonmarks. I mean, the spellscars were detrimental to the user (if you didn't end crazy and mutated, you were lucky).
Too bad they killed the spellscars in canon  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 21:09:48
My mind goes in weird directions...
You said 'Meteor crash', and my brain instantly went to some of George's FB posts, and I thought...
'Meatier Krash' (because thats what he'll be if he keeps eating whole roast hogs LMAO).
@Zero - that was one of the options I presented above - that the original primordial is 'long gone' - just some residue is all we have. Its 'dust' has settled and mixed with the soil of Halruaa and effects everything (very much like how Cinnabryl effects everything in the Red Steel setting*). This transferred with them, which is why they had magic in Abeir, and then it transferred back.
The 'mining the screaming primordial' can be the other guy/gal, under Io’vanthor. They've only learned how to use and harness its powers since being on Abeir (so that would be very like the Warlock Knights and Telos). It doesn't even have to be a primordial - could be a god/Estelar, or even an Obyrith.
*And as I typed this, I realized just how closely Slevas and I wandered into that territory - they also have a metal they make out of alloying steel with the 'Red Dust' (Cinnabryl), and call it Red Steel (hence the setting name). The dust can be used to access other 'magical phenomena' as well, so it works as our 'magic functioned for the halruaans' McGuffin.
And another thing, it also caused mutations, VERY much like 'plaguechaged' people in FR. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that where they got the idea. FR truly is becomeing the melting pot of setings - we even have 'spellscars' now (Dragonmarks from Eberron).
|
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 20:44:44
My idea of what they found in Abeir to power their magic is that it was the remains of a primordial, not a primordial per see. They were just just using the radiation from its corpse to power magic. So, basically, my idea is that weren't stealing from a living being, just from remains that radiated magic.
If you really want to go with the idea of a primordial in Halruua, maybe after they learned to tap into those remains they say "You know, there are some rocks with a pretty similar radiation in our lands...", and then they began to mine they Halruaan primordial. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 14:31:19
Yeah, a bluish brass works, though maybe if they combine it with other metals or powders it changes colors. That way we can have a mix of colors, and perhaps it is most readily cut for "minor work" to look like normal brass (just for the color purpose... golden-like brass is prettier).
Zero.... don't want to ruin you work... do you like this so far?
Just to note, I plan on also having a "meteor crash" involved with Peleveran. Basically, the underground river shaar and the great rift and the landrise were all created as part of a big meteor smacking into the shaar, traversing the earth and then lodging itself finally in the earth near Peleveran. Water eventually followed this path and eventually exited out of the landrise to create the river shaar. So, I may be doing something similar there. However, that entity will be less of an arcane influence and more of an elemental one of some sort (possibly water... and possibly having something to do with Khass the Rain God). |
| Markustay |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 10:59:24
A few things - FIRST, it's an elemental lord of magic (Arcane primordial). I subscribe to western alchemical theories and say the main four elements - in the right quantities - give us the magical '5th element' - LIFE. There have been lesser elementals of that type discovered from time to time, and people have even created golems like that, but its extremely rare, and never anything on par with that dude. We need it to be like that to explain why its presence in Abeir is so much different than the presence of primorials already there (maybe there were others, but Ao didn't send any of that type to Abeir just for this reason).
We could have said that the primordial (Arcanaxus?) that landed in Halruaa way back when was practically 'vaporized' (like what happened with steelsky guy), but after the dust settled - literally - it was mixed in with all the normal earth of the region that was also blown up into the air, so now the very ground of Halruaa 'radiates magic'. That would cover the dramatic exit it made during the Spellplague, and also why there is still magic there even on Abeir. Unfortunately, that also negates the scenario of posited above (them 'mining' him - although maybe just a 'husk' - head and torso - remain).
On the other hand, you also have that ruined city you brought back with you, and the OTHER primoridal could be getting mined, and thats what Halruaan mages are hearing scream in their heads. They would have learned how to use pieces of it to empower their ships and devices, so as to not rely on the proximity of THEIR primordial. I like it, but I don't love it, because now we are doubling-up on primordials there, and thats a bit much (although at that point we will be saying one was vaporized many millennia ago). In fact, if the new one is 'feeding' off the residue of the older one, it could be 'healing' faster, which means they could be mining it harder, which has all sorts of DARK connotations ("Hey look! No matter how much we cut off now, it keeps growing back!")
Metals:
I like the idea of brass, but I'd also want it to be bluish, since its supposed to be a primordial of Arcane energy. Maybe like a bluish brass? It would be to bronze what Mithril is to steel. Maybe something that holds enchantments easily? Maybe call it something like 'faerian brass', or just 'faerian' (the mineral itself - really chunks of the primorial - could be known as 'faeratite'). so basically it would taking the place of the zinc, and if the copper element was very reddish, then it could even look a little purplish (still, blue is more magical, and purple usually indicates evil, like Shar or Talona).
Oh, and unlike regular steel (or iron, or other base metals), it doesn't interfere with magic casting. Now wouldn't THAT be real handy? Keep your mithril ringmail nasty elveses, we got us Faerian Scale!
EDIT:
And about your above 'electrical' connection. Magic = Life, and in a lot of scify/horror, electricity also = 'life' (think Frankenstein), so perhaps electricity itself is a plasmatized form of life/arcane energy (and thats how it manifests in OUR world - we use magic all the time, we just learned how to harness it and call it electricity). So we got airships, magic, daemons, familiars, and now Anbaric energy (electricity)... throw in some talking bears and we reinvented His Dark Materials. 
(Golden Compass in the U.S.) |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 02:58:28
Hmmmm, and when I was talking about brass/bronze/copper above.... copper works well with electricity. Perhaps the Halruaans were mining it and selling it to the Lantanese, who had discovered a way of charging it with lightning rods, thus the "tesla coil" concept. It may even be that a lot of their clockwork golems that they have running around are formed from this mined material that's sold to them from Halruaa.... and maybe that's because the Halruaans need the gondsmen to make the clockwork golems so they can protect themselves. The two cultures that would normally have been at odds, just may have become dependent following the spellplague. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 02:52:42
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Adding a +1 to what Markustay just said about the primordial. Something crashed. It made the lake that Halarahh (sp?) is around. The people put the capital there for a reason. I would also have it personally that Halarahh actually survived BECAUSE of this "artifact of darkfire". Keep that city around. No real reason to destroy it.
Well, I just destroyed Halarahh because it was destroyed in 4e, and you get to visit the ruins in some adventure (there is a "tree" in the center of destroyed Halarahh that I want to preserve, tho).
So, in canon it was destroyed. I don't want to deviate much from canon, and also, the destruction is past tense, so I guess it will not affect an adventure there in the current year. The returned Halruaans will get Halarahh operative in no time (unless we convert it into a magical Chernobyl).
It was destroyed on TORIL... was it in fact the whole city? maybe SOME of the city stayed behind, and that portion, without the rest of the supports, fell apart. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 02:28:33
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Halruaans didn't hate Leira. However, they were opposed to having Leirans in leadership positions. The Leirans who went to Nimbral weren't exiled. They left of their own free will because they saw that they would never gain as much "prestige" as Azuth/Savras/Mystra. Essentially, the Leirans that moved to Nimbral were tired of being looked down upon by other more "respectable" Halruaans. Now over time, that might have caused some animosity, especially since Nimbraii are known for being "spy-like" individuals. However, all Halruaans understand the value of illusion, so they wouldn't remove the temples.
So, I got it all wrong.
Still, I want they do not have it "easy" while on Abeir, because Abeir is not the "easy world". Abeir is a corrupted world dominated by tyrants and enemies of the gods. Is a world not unlike Athas (and yes, we can export defiling to the Realms via Abeir). A constant state of fighting and certain death looming on them will drive the Halruaans to be the battle-hardened wizards living in fortress-like dwellings Ed depicted in his idea.
So, I guess gods should appear much later (maybe in the 1430s), after a few years under a Shyran occupation, two dragon invasions, and a lot of hardships. Healing magic will give them too much and edge in battle to be something they would get since the beginning.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Oh, and on the idea of the Halruaans developing the concept and the red wizards of Peleveran stealing it...
I just said this because is something I think they would say, but I like your idea of different approaches for the same thing (portable magic power sources). |
| shades of eternity |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 02:22:06
yeah had the same response in my own material.
you don't ignore 4e, you right around it.
besides with the sundering, you can pick what you want and leave the rest.
I like what I'm seeing so far :) |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 02:11:55
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Adding a +1 to what Markustay just said about the primordial. Something crashed. It made the lake that Halarahh (sp?) is around. The people put the capital there for a reason. I would also have it personally that Halarahh actually survived BECAUSE of this "artifact of darkfire". Keep that city around. No real reason to destroy it.
Well, I just destroyed Halarahh because it was destroyed in 4e, and you get to visit the ruins in some adventure (there is a "tree" in the center of destroyed Halarahh that I want to preserve, tho).
So, in canon it was destroyed. I don't want to deviate much from canon, and also, the destruction is past tense, so I guess it will not affect an adventure there in the current year. The returned Halruaans will get Halarahh operative in no time (unless we convert it into a magical Chernobyl). |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 01:35:40
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Of Steel ships and iron men:*
NEW Halruaan airships that make the old designs look like antiques. In other words, go full-bore, hardcore Eberron here. Considering the primordial and what was discussed above, having those types of 'elemental Airships' in 5e is a no-brainer, IMO. This tech would be crucial for them to be on 'even keel' (see what I did there? ) with the Five Companies (in fact, the two could have developed this together even before Halruaa 'came home', but before that, the ships would have only worked in Abeir because of the primordial power required). I assume here that when Halruaa came back, so did whatever was underneath it (and your own timeline indicates it didn't 'wake-up', although we could have it 'stirring' in 5e... maybe it heard some of its semi-awoken brethren calling to it, like Telos).
The presence of a fully-awake and functional Ubtao could mean the ships work over the entirety of the Chultan peninsula, or they could have hybrid power-sourcing, switching to 'Weave' when they need to. Also, would an awake primordial be able to cut its energy off? And another thing - i was operating on the premise that that primordial's power was rather unique for its kind - an 'elemental of magic', as it were. That being the case, other primordials may not even be able to provide power... unless they've developed work-arounds in that regard. Maybe they begun to 'mine' parts of the beastie, like the warlock Knights are doing? That would be rather 'dark' for Halruaa... but their experiences should have 'darkened' them.
Apprentice: "Sir, I have something embarrassing to ask."
Archwizard: "Go ahead my boy, ask away. There is no such thing as a 'bad question."
Apprentice: "Well, ever since I attained the level of 3rd tier initiate (3rd lev.), I've had this... i don't know how to describe it... sound, in my head. It almost sounds like speech, but its muffled, and, maybe garbled. Is that normal?"
Archwizard: {face suddenly grown quite serious} "Ah, I see. You hear him, do you? It happens to us all, sooner or later. The lucky ones, much later. It will only grow worse as you gain in power."
Apprentice: "But what is it? Its a being? Who is this 'him'? Why is it trying to speak to us?"
Archwizard: {looks a the novice sadly) Its not speaking. {turns and begins to walk away.} Its screaming."
*A reference to Wooden Ships and Iron Men which was a fun game back in its day, and also a popular trope.
ooooooo, I like that too.... yeah, I'd recommend stealing exactly the same idea as Telos... but maybe don't make it iron. What if it were something like copper and they were mixing it with other stuff to produce brass or bronze. Less Dark and more "colorful". Also, unlike steel or iron, its much more conducive to molding, so they could make beautiful things with it.
Hmmm, and if it is brass.... maybe it makes especially good musical instruments, and a strong tradition of Halruaan "song mages" starts up (that being sorcerer/bards or wizard/bards). Maybe any bard cantrip cast using a flute, horn, bugle, glaur, cornet, trumpet, harmonica, etc... made primarily of this material has some kind of bonus. Picturing a dragonborn bard that's wearing a chest mounted xylophone that somewhat doubles as armor now.... .
I have the "song mage" as a feat in my Complete Red Book of Spell Strategy, so you could reference it. I'll post it here though just for the concept.
Song Mage
Prerequisite: Bard College (College of Lore) class ability, , at least 1 level spent in either the sorcerer or wizard class
Found primarily in communties which welcome both Colleges of Bardic Arts and Schools for Arcane Spellcasters, such as Silverymoon, Waterdeep, and Evereska, Song Mages come from a tendency of these spellcasters to try and find a harmonious blending of these two types of magic.
The character's understanding of multiple reality altering magics allows them to improve their ability to prepare higher level spells. The exact mechanics of this depend on how many class levels of difference separate their bard and their wizard or sorcerer level (if they have both, they must pick which this feat will apply to). If four or more levels separates the two classes, then the lesser of the two classes is treated as though it were four levels higher in relation to its “spells known or prepared” (this does not affect the number of spell slots available). If three levels separate the two, then three levels are added to the lesser and one to the greater. If two levels or less separate the two classes, then both classes are treated as though they were two levels higher in relation to its “spells known or prepared” . This number changes as the character levels and changes this difference between his bard and their wizard or sorcerer classes. Thus, a bard 4/wizard 4 would prepare spells as a 6th lvl bard and as a 6th lvl wizard, but if he went on to become a bard 4/wizard 7 then it would be preparing spells as a 7th lvl bard and an 8th lvl wizard, and bard 4/wizard 8 would be preparing spells as an 8th lvl bard and an 8th lvl wizard. Similarly, a bard 3/wizard 9 would be preparing spells as a 7th lvl bard and a 9th lvl wizard, but such a character would be losing his 4th lvl bard ability increase/feat.
In addition, the character learns the prestidigitation cantrip and has the below spells prepared and/or known in each class that can prepare spells of that level, even if that spell isn't normally on their spell list.
1st level – Healing Word, Heroism
2nd level – Suggestion
3rd level – Tongues |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 01:17:45
Adding a +1 to what Markustay just said about the primordial. Something crashed. It made the lake that Halarahh (sp?) is around. The people put the capital there for a reason. I would also have it personally that Halarahh actually survived BECAUSE of this "artifact of darkfire". Keep that city around. No real reason to destroy it.
The people were already studying this down in Halruaa during Karsus' Folly. Maybe one of their flying cities was able to slowly land because it was drawing power into its mythallar from this artifact. Hell, maybe a portion of Halarahh is a Netherese enclave, and they've kept this secret hidden as a means to move the city from sudden danger. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 01:09:15
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
DMs Guild "Priestess: Ancient World Divine Class".
I guess I need to check that stuff.
That said:
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
(but they might for gods of magic such as Savras, Deneir, Leira, etc...).
Didn't the Halruaans hate Leira? I remember I read in the GHotR that they basically exiled a lot of people just because they were Leirans, and that the Nimbrese and Halruaans didn't loved each other even in the 1300s.
I guess, they may have accepted Leira at some point, but not at first. Just when they began to doubt about their stuff (as Ed's suggest) I guess they would rethink to give Leira a chance. And perhaps only when they really felt they needed her—as in, a huge invasion that got pass the outlying town-fortresses and got even into the heartlands, and then a few clerics of Leira appeared to help and the battle was won in the end. Only at this point, I see the old-fashioned Halruaans thinking "well, maybe we misjudged her". And I guess only the young and the really open-minded did it. Old-fashioned traditionalists (including those Halruaans who remained in Toril, such as the members of the Five Companies) may still be wary of her.
I mean, odds are good that while on Abeir the Halruaans have adopted the pragmatic dragonborn views about gods. "What this god can do for me?" instead of just blind faith because the gods are gods. I see plausible that dragonborn just came up with mercenary contracts for priests saying "in return of my faith, your god-thing Leira has to do this and this for me", just like it happened to Enlil in Erin's novels. In time, I guess most Halruaans, specially those with doubts about their ways and customs, may have adopted this viewpoint about gods.
I guess only Mystra is an exception to this because she was the traditional goddess of old Halruaa (so, old geezers would have been loathe to just abandon her) and because she has a valid reason for not having helped them in the Lost Century (she was dead). As soon as she was able, she repaired the Weave and "returned them back to Toril" (or at least, that is what I think most Halruaans believe).
The other gods? Well, they must prove their worth or go to bother their dear mothers (?)
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hell, having their ruler come back in the form of a weakened avatar of Savras might be useful to you (i.e. he willingly is allowing Savras to inhabit his body to perform SOME act.... maybe Savras "reawakens" a mythallar but attunes it to the weave of Abeir.... or even several spread throughout the country that were all gathered from Netheril, but had since broken down several centuries ago).
I guess this could be a good explanation of why Zalathorm survived the Spellplague while in "ground zero". As Savras is one of the gods that got the short-end of the stick, (post-SS, he doesn't have any major temple in any city), I cannot see him as a powerful ally, however.
As for magic, your idea is good, but I see as still "localized" to be of a advantage against the Shyran or the Dragon Tyrants (that know how to use magic without a "Weave"). So, magic beyond those areas would be still impossible (unless you're an innate spellcaster).
And, while the "ley lines" in settlements and in nearby areas could be defended, I guess dragons and genies would have conquered those lands with "ley lines" that were afar from a settlement or fortress to use them for their own purposes, making casting magic in those regions a risk. I can imagine some settlements with mythallars and "ley lines" may have been conquered over time, as well.
Using demons as power batteries reminds of WoW, btw Using avatars is an interesting idea. I see the potential backlash as well. Some faiths in Toril will judge or even prosecute Red Wizards when they learn the truth...
As for how the Halruaans may have seen the creation of those magic devices, I dunno. But I guess they would have frowned upon on the idea of using demons as power sources (this just confirmed to them how low those Thayans have fell). They use of portable "power foci" is interesting, and the Halruaans developed similar magic items of their own, as well (I want to adopt Markustay's idea of spellcasters with "feliron" piercings as power sources).
They would even say that they created such magic items first and the Thayans just copied them, as always (damn Halruaan traitors who live in Pelevaran now, they leaked the techniques!). They even may be telling the truth, as well.
Something to take into account, though, is that I want to preserve Ed's idea of "isolated, highly militaristic Halruaa" post-Second Sundering. So, while they may have created portable "power-source foci" for some wizards and other spellcasters who wanted to leave Abeiran Halruaa, they don't wasted resources expanding their magical network beyond the Arkhosj Mountains (the equivalent to the northern and eastern Walls; yeah, there were no western walls in Abeir, that is why they were facing invasions on a regular basis), because they needed all the magic they could get to protect their homeland.
Mmm... I wonder, though. Now that there is a normal Weave again, how those mythallars will work. I guess magic within Halruaa will be enhanced, more powerful than outside the Walls.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
After reading Zero's post... I'm not sure mythallars are the right approach. Mythallars were batteries for short-range magical items; go beyond the range of a mythallar, and your quasimagical wand is now just a stick.
What I would do, given the objective of having Halruaa flip to Abeir, would be either have the wizards quickly learn how to do without the Weave, or create some sort of object that basically recreates a very localized Weave. Kinda the same thing as your approach, but calling them something different to prevent any confusion.
Maybe these devices were large spheres, like the original mythallars, providing a local Weave for an area a mile or two in diameter... Or maybe they could be actual physical devices, worn or carried by the wizards that relied on them.
And I'd call them Weavecallers, or Weave anchors, or mhaerkyrals (a word I just made up, inspired by the Mhaorkiira Hadryad of Dream Spheres), or something like that.
As I do not want to deviate from canon, making wizards to be able to cast magic on their own in Abeir is a no-no (as per Erin's novels, if you couldn't produce magic energy on your own, you cannot use magic in Abeir). This is also my reason for Halruaa being in Abeir, as the SCAG says it happened. I just reconciled Ed's idea with what the SCAG says.
So, I want to create a network of "fake Weave-energy" that enveloped Halruaa and allowed magic to work in similar fashion of what magic worked in Toril during the post-Spellplague years (non-"Vancian" magic). I guess mythallar is not the proper term...
Is more like what sleyvas said. A network of ley-lines "enriching" the land with processed raw magic that non-innate casters can use without a magic item as the power source. The energy only work within the boundaries of Arkhosj (the equivalent lands of Halruaa in Abeir). Go beyond that, and wizards were as magically gifted as a fighter. That's why sorcerers and warlocks became openly accepted in their society: they could go were a wizard could not (beyond Halruaan lands).
Halruaans didn't hate Leira. However, they were opposed to having Leirans in leadership positions. The Leirans who went to Nimbral weren't exiled. They left of their own free will because they saw that they would never gain as much "prestige" as Azuth/Savras/Mystra. Essentially, the Leirans that moved to Nimbral were tired of being looked down upon by other more "respectable" Halruaans. Now over time, that might have caused some animosity, especially since Nimbraii are known for being "spy-like" individuals. However, all Halruaans understand the value of illusion, so they wouldn't remove the temples.
As to the other gods, Savras was still worshipped even when he was entrapped in Azuth's staff, and Azuth was also a popular deity in Halruaa. Even necromancy wasn't scorned in Halruaa, so small temples or shrines of Velsharoon would be found. Also, amongst these traditional gods of magic, Deneir would be well tolerated, and since he also disappeared, he can fit the area. Even things like Karsus and Kereska the Wonderbringer are possibilities. In fact, while in Abeir, I'd recommend it be that these lesser gods of magic were around, and only at the end, just like with Toril, does "Mystra" reappear. However, the gods of magic would make it their business to tell their worshippers that Mystra is weak and needs offerings and sacrifices.
On how the mythallars affect things with the return, yeah, I'd recommend a base thing like I put in the above post. Maybe all cantrips are cast as if the caster were 4 levels higher. That's minor enough that it shouldn't break the game, but it gives some oomph to lower level casters in their hometown. Then you can tag on additional effects.
Oh, and for those that DON'T want the godly interaction... say like how Seethyr wants the Mazticans to not have access to the gods, they don't get these "ley lines" built artificially in their areas. In fact, just outside of my Tharchs in Katashaka for instance, magic simply won't work (unless its some innate power that something has).... unless you bring some kind of charged foci to keep you going for a few days. Granted, all of that will be "past tense", but it will explain why they didn't dominate the world, but within their areas they held much power.
Oh, and on the idea of the Halruaans developing the concept and the red wizards of Peleveran stealing it.... that may very well be true. My concept that they use "circle magic" as a means to take in Abeir's weave and feed it to an object instead of a circle leader is viable for BOTH these two cultures because BOTH cultures have circle magic. Granted, I'd like to make difference in how circle/cooperative magic works between the two cultures, at is basest core, it is simply working together to feed magic to something... so this concept to create "crystals" or "fell iron" or whatever to make small "nodes" of magic works.
In fact, some cultures may even be providing them these "foci" to get them charged. Other cultures, like the Lantanese may have created a similar effect with "lightning batteries" like I was discussing in another thread, wherein they've effectively garnered some basic electrical implements/tools and/or clockwork servants. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 23:46:57
Well, if the primordial is our "power source", he must have been transposed to Toril because all affected with his/her/it magical energy did so.
My idea here is that the "Spellplague reshaped reality" (canon 4e), so while Halruaa indeed replaced the part of Abeir that was in turn thrown into the Shadowfell (canon 5e). That land that was sent to the Shadowfell was on top of the primordial and other ruins of the draconic empire (maybe even on top of Io'vanthor).
What remained in the Torilian 'Halruaa' was a new reality created by the Spellplague.
And that reality was then sent to Abeir in the SS while bringing back Halruaa (and the land below it), though some parts remained in Toril (Ed mentioned some "mobile sections of 'wild magic zones'" in his answers).
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| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 23:21:18
Of Steel ships and iron men:*
NEW Halruaan airships that make the old designs look like antiques. In other words, go full-bore, hardcore Eberron here. Considering the primordial and what was discussed above, having those types of 'elemental Airships' in 5e is a no-brainer, IMO. This tech would be crucial for them to be on 'even keel' (see what I did there? ) with the Five Companies (in fact, the two could have developed this together even before Halruaa 'came home', but before that, the ships would have only worked in Abeir because of the primordial power required). I assume here that when Halruaa came back, so did whatever was underneath it (and your own timeline indicates it didn't 'wake-up', although we could have it 'stirring' in 5e... maybe it heard some of its semi-awoken brethren calling to it, like Telos).
The presence of a fully-awake and functional Ubtao could mean the ships work over the entirety of the Chultan peninsula, or they could have hybrid power-sourcing, switching to 'Weave' when they need to. Also, would an awake primordial be able to cut its energy off? And another thing - i was operating on the premise that that primordial's power was rather unique for its kind - an 'elemental of magic', as it were. That being the case, other primordials may not even be able to provide power... unless they've developed work-arounds in that regard. Maybe they begun to 'mine' parts of the beastie, like the warlock Knights are doing? That would be rather 'dark' for Halruaa... but their experiences should have 'darkened' them.
Apprentice: "Sir, I have something embarrassing to ask."
Archwizard: "Go ahead my boy, ask away. There is no such thing as a 'bad question'."
Apprentice: "Well, ever since I attained the level of 3rd tier initiate (3rd lev.), I've had this... i don't know how to describe it... sound, in my head. It almost sounds like speech, but its muffled, and, maybe garbled. Is that normal?"
Archwizard: {face suddenly grown quite serious} "Ah, I see. You hear him, do you? It happens to us all, sooner or later. The lucky ones, much later. It will only grow worse as you gain in power."
Apprentice: "But what is it? Its a being? Who is this 'him'? Why is it trying to speak to us?"
Archwizard: {looks at the novice sadly) "Its not speaking. {turns and begins to walk away.} Its screaming."
*A reference to Wooden Ships and Iron Men which was a fun game back in its day, and also a popular trope. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 22:58:45
Well, there is some "Elder Evil" from the time when "those you call gods were mere mortals" sleeping in Io'vanthor, in fact (the true reason why the draconic empire fell in the ancient past) —that's why there so much warlocks in Halruaa lately. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 22:34:36
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
My take on "pacifist Halruaans" is that they didn't fought unless they had too (yeah, invasions and Thayan and Cintri plots, and the like; but the always fought when forced, not because they wanted to). Reading Ed's answers, however, it seems that now they are ready to fight as soon as someone enters their lands...
Yeah, they did NOT tolerate the Crinti. Not much, anyway. Younglings 'sowing some wildness' is one thing, but they responded brutally when any real threat reared its head. Like the time Szass Tam found half a dozen Red Wizard heads laying on his desk... all wizards assigned to spy on Halruaa. And his study is supposedly 100%% impenetrable by any magical means (yes, I did just make that up, but I am sure if Ed reads this, he would whole-heartedly agree that falls WELL within what they would - and COULD - do... pre-4e, of course).
On who, exactly, 'came back':
I'd definitely want a few Dragonborn groups around in Halruaa now, and some may even serve in some sort of elite 'shock troops' capacity for New Halruaa. The swamps got drained in 4e, because so much of the Shining South got obliterated, but I've put some of that back (not quite the same, though*). A sizeable portion of the lizardmen managed to survive by moving into the new swampy regions of Luiren (most Dambrathi had their own problems, between the Spellplague and the civil war, to be bothered trying to stop hundreds of lizardmen who just wanted to get the hell out of the way).
I'd also like to see some surreptitious types, like secret members of the Eminence of Araunt, or spies of Abeirran dragons and primordials, Aboleths or their agents, etc. Maybe something brand new, too, if you propose to put this on the DMsGuild (not sure what - maybe some sort of group of fanatics trying to 'rejoin' the sundered worlds permanently?)
You already have Abeirran runs - once again, nice touch.
Maybe a unique monster or three. Some 'race' from Abeir - you can even steal it from some 3e 'core' splats, or another DD&D world. Make it a race of Manotaurs (human-legged minotaurs, and smaller, like humans... in other words, Krynn minotaurs) and you'll make Wooly and I happy as an orcbaby in feces.
*And now that I've mentioned that, I really need to get back to that 5e map that I got distracted from. Especially since this great conversation about Halruaa is going on. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 21:38:23
My take on "pacifist Halruaans" is that they didn't fought unless they had too (yeah, invasions and Thayan and Cintri plots, and the like; but the always fought when forced, not because they wanted to). Reading Ed's answers, however, it seems that now they are ready to fight as soon as someone enters their lands... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 21:18:58
Whats being discussed above, now: (and this is why I split my post LOL)
I'd personally prefer if they never left, as does Wooly, but Zeromaru has a point - we need to make our own 'kewl homebrew ideas' work withing the canon. Thus, they will work both as CandleKanon entries, AND as longer works submitted to the DMsGuild.
On that note, I'd prefer it was closer to 50/50, or maybe at least 40/60 (of the survivors, mind you - I'm thinking at least half the population died in the initial magical onslaught). otherwise, the problem with 'bringing them back together' isn't nearly so simple - they have to be on equal footing (power-wise), or else one group WILL try to dominate the other... its human nature. Of course, they never foresaw themselves 'getting back together', so they were just allies separated by one hell of a barrier. This could, of course, create some significant (read: interesting gaming plots) political intrigues within 'Returned Halruaa', as one group maneuvers to dominate the other (more 'brilliant undermining and maneuvering through public speeches/emporiums' than anything Machiavellian... although 'cloak & dagger' probably isn't too far off).
Love how you brought Io’vanthor back with you - nice touch.
On 'Old Halruaa': Not sure where you got the idea that the Halruaans were pacifists. If by, "so damn powerful they consider the concept of 'enemies' laughable', you mean 'pacifist', then okay. they had a world-spanning spy network that was so all-pervasive and powerful they pretty-much kept tabs on 'everyone of power', from world leaders to guys like Elminster and Larloch. They literally considered Thay's efforts to spy on them and steal magical research a joke ("Szass Tam? Oh, yes... he is indeed very powerful. In fact, he may even know as many spells as some of our smarter apprentices.") Their power lie in their information network, and when they had to, they responded quickly and efficiently to any threat. When Dambrath attacked Luiren, they showed up almost instantly, wiping out the attacking forces... and they were neither asked nor invited by the Hin.
Halruaa doesn't get into wars not because its 'pacifist', Halruaa doesn't get into wars for the same reason why the biggest guy in the room hardly ever gets into fights (no-one picks a fight they have a very good chance of losing... unless you are drunk, or N. Korea). |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 20:43:25
A few points...
What Wooly said just above: Its sounds like what I proposed awhile back - a combination mythal/Mythalar, but something entirely new, as well. Also, a lot like the Spellcrux used by the College of Wizardry. First thing, RENAME it - its something new, and using 'Mythal' or Mythalar' is just going to add brand-new confusion to already problematic area (I wish they designer of Netheril hadn't used 'Mythalar' for the name, either¹). There is also a similarly themed yet completely unrelated Udoxias of Jhaamdath. Maybe as a homage to the earlier ones just use the first few letters, like a Mycruxas, or some-such. Also, definitely tie them to the primordial sleeping below Halruaa (make one up if you have to) - if the whole country was built on the back of one of those, it should be the reason the place went to Abeir, and it should be the reason they have some semblance of magic in Abeir (unstable, wild magic - that may have been THAT primordial's 'thing'). Also, I would go so far as to say that the upper echelons of Halruaa knew about the primordial for some time, and had already developed ways of 'tapping it', so to speak, and their efforts in that department went full-bore when they were displaced to Abeir. So basically, their mind set went from "its powerful, but we don't know if we'll ever be able to harness this force", to "we better learn how to use this thing quick!" Funny how the likelihood of immediate, brutal death sparks one's creativity. So similar to a Mythalar in that it would have some defensive capabilities (enemy/dragon detection, obscurement {savings throw vs detection/scrying spells}, maybe act as a 'curse' or 'blessing' effect for certain people- in older versions -1/+1 on the dice, in 5e 'advantage/disadvantage'), but its main feature should be to provide 'magical energies' to empower Halruaan spells, like the old Mythalar, but using the comatose primordial to empower it, rather than how the Spellcruxes had to have spells fed into them first.²
EDIT:
Almost forgot - I'd also go back and say this 'strange magical radiation' (the buried primordial) was why the Netherese were snooping-around Halruaa in the first place, just before Netheral fell. In fact, I believe I said elsewhere it would have been interesting if there already was a small enclave of Imaskari that had been there when Imaskar fell, doing much the same thing (trying to see if they could 'bind' it somehow, as they did Pandorym). Then Halruaa becomes a bit more unique, in that it was one set of 'sagely types' who were abandoned when their empire collapsed, who later had to deal with intruders trying to do much what they had originally set-out to do, and then those same intruders showing up en masse after their own empire collapsed, hundreds (thousands?) of years later. In fact, arriving Netherese archaeologists may have just thought the people in the 'valley' (crater) were natives³, not realizing they were the descendants of an earlier expedition by someone else. And also not realizing, of course, that they'd soon share the same fate. When it comes to Halruaa, Mages are drawn to there like 'moths to a flame', and they don't even know why.
¹I've worked on that elsewhere - the word 'myth' means 'a safe place to hide in when things get bad' in ancient Fae. Thus, the saying, "they disappeared into myth" which gets applied to creatures of folklore.
²I've theorized the old, original Netherese Mythalars were a type of sentient (after a time) 'Weave Tap', like the Sojourner used, so their 'power source' was the weave itself. They worked sort-of like the way a magnifying glass works with sunlight - it intensifies it, requiring 'less' to do 'more' (simpler magical devices that didn't require the expenditure of Con. pts. to build, as it was in older editions). The Drow learned how to do something VERY similar with Faerzress (which I further theorize are really leftover chunks of mutilated gods/primordials, thus, the 'new Halruaans' aren't doing anything all that different than what the Drow have been doing for millennia).
³I added this part because I just realized that there was slightly over 2000 years difference between when the two fell, so there may have not even been much left of 'Imaskar' other than a very watered-down bloodline. Of course, combining that with my other musings, that would then give the Halruaans a 'fey bloodline' (which the Netherese never had), and would help explain why those weirdos in Nimbral brought-back 'the Flying Hunt'.
Rather than my usual 'wall of text', I'm going to break my observations into bite-sized chunks... |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 20:00:11
I have the same problem with the SCAG, really. I'm just making lemonade, as the saying goes... IHMO, Abeir has potential, just WotC used it the wrong way.
As for re-skinning, I guess that your term, mhaerkyrals (weave anchors), is good for my idea . |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 19:46:11
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
After reading Zero's post... I'm not sure mythallars are the right approach. Mythallars were batteries for short-range magical items; go beyond the range of a mythallar, and your quasimagical wand is now just a stick.
What I would do, given the objective of having Halruaa flip to Abeir, would be either have the wizards quickly learn how to do without the Weave, or create some sort of object that basically recreates a very localized Weave. Kinda the same thing as your approach, but calling them something different to prevent any confusion.
Maybe these devices were large spheres, like the original mythallars, providing a local Weave for an area a mile or two in diameter... Or maybe they could be actual physical devices, worn or carried by the wizards that relied on them.
And I'd call them Weavecallers, or Weave anchors, or mhaerkyrals (a word I just made up, inspired by the Mhaorkiira Hadryad of Dream Spheres), or something like that.
As I do not want to deviate from canon, making wizards to be able to cast magic on their own in Abeir is a no-no (as per Erin's novels, if you couldn't produce magic energy on your own, you cannot use magic in Abeir). This is also my reason for Halruaa being in Abeir, as the SCAG says it happened. I just reconciled Ed's idea with what the SCAG says.
So, I want to create a network of "fake Weave-energy" that enveloped Halruaa and allowed magic to work in similar fashion of what magic worked in Toril during the post-Spellplague years (non-"Vancian" magic). I guess mythallar is not the proper term...
Is more like what sleyvas said. A network of ley-lines "enriching" the land with processed raw magic that non-innate casters can use without a magic item as the power source. The energy only work within the boundaries of Arkhosj (the equivalent lands of Halruaa in Abeir). Go beyond that, and wizards were as magically gifted as a fighter. That's why sorcerers and warlocks became openly accepted in their society: they could go were a wizard could not (beyond Halruaan lands).
I get that... But I'm suggesting reskinning mythallars more than anything else.
As for going with what's in the SCAG... Part of my Five Companies Redux idea was that Halruaa never truly left Toril (admittedly, my scroll really didn't go into that). My thinking was that there was a fair amount of magical chaos and devastation in Halruaa, but the land and its people were mostly intact. The idea that Halruaa had left the premises was a mistaken impression caused by the first few people to check it out after the Spellplague, and then heavily reinforced via false tales and rumor, by the Five Companies (and perhaps other Halruaan agents). Basically, I was respinning things a bit and thinking that the info in the SCAG was a deliberate misinformation campaign by Halruaans. (Mainly, I HATE WotC's transposing countries/lands idea and was going with "this is what people think happened, but the reality is...") |
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