| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Aug 2017 : 01:00:05
Hey, when was the landrise created? I am kind of wondering if when the cavern of Bhaerynden collapsed on the drow culture of Telantiwar and created the Great Rift.... maybe it was then? Maybe there was some kind of earthquake and the Shaar suddenly split along the landrise?
Is there anywhere that contradicts this? I note that the map of the crown wars in GHotR doesn't show it being there then. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 24 Aug 2019 : 21:24:08
Oh, missed this one:
quote:
Elminster Speaks: Khôltar, Part 3
A prevalence of poisonous fumes, searing rock salts, and molten rock flows to the west of the Great Rift keep settlements in this part of the Realms Below very sparse, and very deep, which is the very reason the dwarven Deep Realms extend far to the east of the Great Rift and only a little way west and southwest of it.
So there is a cracked area not directly linked to the Great Rift. The whole thing still can be a convergent plate boundary, it's a bit unusual in the middle of a continent (rather than with subducting plate under water), but not impossible. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 01 Sep 2017 : 13:38:31
Well, didn't intend for this thread to turn into this, but when do my threads ever stay on topic...
So, what if while in Abeir, the red wizards learned to use their circles with their circle leaders, but in a new way in which the circle leader feeds the energy into "receptacles" of some sort. Maybe they've been drawing the latent raw magic of Abeir and focusing it into these receptacles. Once these receptacles get to a certain point of "fullness" maybe they take on a role of their own in which they start acting kind of like the "weave tap" that converted shadow magic into weave magic. Then maybe they offer up some of these in sacrifice to the gods of magic, who actually take these magical 'batteries' and plant them around the areas that transferred to Abeir (SIDENOTE: Leira used her power to hide these "points in the ley lines"). Thus, maybe they SLOWLY created a weave across those lands, making it such that the red wizards were some of the first to get stable weave magic back. Note: the red wizards SHOULD NOT even know the full impact of what they're doing NOR the exact involvement with the gods of magic, though some might suspect.
In the cities with powerful magic sources of some sort, maybe this "battery building" is simply easier and/or something akin to a Mythallar may be built there to protect certain communities. These "batteries"/"mini-weave taps" might also become a commodity that they are trading to other tharchs. If multiple tharchs can do this, it also makes it not a monopoly to any one tharch, so that helps with cooperation more. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 01 Sep 2017 : 12:48:02
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
We all know that Bhaerynden collapsed but maybe something more than a weakened structure caused it. Like an impact.
-- George Krashos
Yeah, that's where I'm going with this, and if it DID impact, was it on the Northwestern side. That is the side that would have also transported to Abeir IF indeed this whole story of a collapse of MILLIONS of TONS of material had indeed happened. I say this because I've just had this hard time swallowing the story of the Underchasm. If it were smaller... maybe. Easier for me to believe that that section went to Abeir too, but nothing correspondingly from Abeir came to Toril (possibly because the Halruaans were busy shunting things in Abeir off to the shadowfell... you know because at least red wizards let you know they're d*cks up front, not tell you they're the good guys and then push some society to live in everlasting darkness... or at least that's how Zulkir Lauzoril phrased it last week at dinner when he was in his cups).
If that is the case (that some power source impacted into and helped form the great rift), then also perhaps that gives me a power source for the red wizards in the Tharch of Peleveran. Part of me wants to name it and call it some god. Another part of me wants to say its some portion of the Tears of Selune. Another part wants to simply call it irradiated material that simply fell to Toril, and that the energy of this irradiated material has something to do with raw magic just like the stuff in Mystara's Glantri. If I do decide to later start "naming" this stuff, we can always do so and simply state that god/primordial corpses are made of some kind of rock that gives off energy.
So, as I'm thinking this through... let me walk through the Tharchs I'm defining throughout Toril mentally.
Tharch of Peleveran - some power source near the west end of the great rift when it transferred to Abeir. Maybe even this crash is what formed the tunnel that the river shaar funnels through from the great rift to the edge of the landrise and out to the clifside city of Peleverai.... Holy smack, yes, I love this, and I'm using it unless someone convinces me its stupid somehow. This maybe lets us leave behind material the dwarves have been mining for centuries in the rift and puts a power source in Peleverai.
Tharch of Balduran Bay / Fort Flame - was already planning to have them have captured a primordial and trapped it beneath their school in the mountains nearby.
Tharch of Esh Alakar in Anchorome - hmmm, city in a relatively dry gully area. The city believed to hold ancient evil, and no one wanted to enter it except red wizards. This area kind of screams "irradiated with magical energy". Maybe even its good if red wizards came along to start siphoning it off... to heal the land. City filled with "golems" and undead. I was also looking to make this an area where the wizards had been studying technomagic along with some Gondsmen from Thindol. This actually fits kind of well if the beings that are gone were technomagical. It could be an excellent source for the warforged idea. Maybe when the red wizards came here, they recognized the energy as similar to the artifact they had in Thay. It was also here that they also heard of "Lopango, Land of Fire" and decided to make an expedition there so....
Lopango, Land of Fire, in the southern jungles of Maztica The name says it all. Also, from GHotR we have very strong hints that Bazim-Gorag, the Firebringer, was from this area before ascending to become a batrachi lord. Perhaps he drew heavily on the power of an artifact that causes all the volcanic activity in the area. Perhaps the red wizards were drew here because of references to another artifact similar to the one they had used in Thay just 27 years earlier.
Western Pridelands of Katashaka - Hmmm, this is entirely my development, but at present I have nothing that could serve as a power source. Basically, its a number of coastal communities along the northwestern tip of Katashaka that's focused mainly on improving the quality of life (at the expense of others mind you, but as a side effect it is civilizing the area and improving theirs). Maybe instead of one big power source, they've found small deposits of some mineral or perhaps even something like plants or even beings locally that they can use as some kind of battery.
New Eltabbar of Katashaka - Well, I built this on a raised escarpment on the northeastern most tip of Katashaka... so it could easily be that its raised up from something coming in at a low angle and driving up the earth over it. The previous tenants were leonine humanoids whose only magics would have been shamanic or priestly. Might be worth it to work in some kind of "dream talking" with the presence in the earth that they did.
Luneira, the former netherese enclave of Doubloon in orbit - This one's easy. Functioning mythallar.
Tharch of Oslander Island - I have so little developed here. Probably best to have them simply doing something similar to western pridelands... a lot of little somethings that the local natives might trade. Or perhaps since this is like an offshoot of Luneira (i.e. the red wizards wanted a small colony here for the main purpose of growing food, since there's no natural ecology in Orbit)... and Luneira had multiple mythallars supporting it. Maybe one was "lower in power" and was an early mythallar before they developed the "newer more powerful mythallars". So, maybe they transport the smaller one here. Or they can setup some kind of array of "batteries" here, and periodically they bring a new "battery" down.
|
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 01 Sep 2017 : 04:28:39
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Also, we have the draconic myths about the 'eggs falling from the sky', right? Could these be the same event? Could those things have created the dragons, or caused an apotheosis of the 'land wyrms' that were native to the region? Could the Power of the Primordials - the power of 'Nature Unleashed' - be the catalyst? The primordials are accredited for having created the dragons... was that an accident? In a similar fashion to how we blame nuclear fallout for creating Godzilla?
Well, in 1374 DR a second "Tearfall" took place, but it wasn't as catastrophic as the original one. But, we know that dragon eggs fell from the sky in "recent times", confirming the "myth". So discard landwyrm (or eodraco) evolution. The dragons actually fell from the sky.
Though, we can also work with the theory that those eggs from 1374 were "imported" from Abeir, seeing that there dragons are quite numerous while in Toril the race was in decline because of the Dracorages... |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 01 Sep 2017 : 03:56:40
We all know that Bhaerynden collapsed but maybe something more than a weakened structure caused it. Like an impact.
-- George Krashos |
| Markustay |
Posted - 01 Sep 2017 : 03:35:11
Yet the Great Rift seems to be the one stable spot in that region. Even when the land around rises, it stays put. And even better, when 4e made the Shaar collapse-in (crating the Underchasm), it STILL remained right there, when everything else got lowered. Its the one point that never moves.
I actually think th 'Plateau of Shaar' is bigger than just The Shaar - I think it extends all the way to about where the Dragonwall was. Not far from where the southern tip of the Dragonwall ended (and please note: That was AN ACTUAL DRAGON!)begins a ravine that travels all the way down to the Golden waters area. In 4e the Dragonwall exploded, and I think it would have left behind another enormous trench (canyon) - one that might even hook-up to the other, already-existing ravine to the south. Anyhow, I think there was a height difference from one side of that ravine to the other. That makes that region another 'landrise', one that was hard to notice because of the ravine. yet we have a fairly flat plain on the western side meeting high mountains directly on the other side - and they are fairly level to one another (there was at least one bridge across). And Kara-Tur is moustly at sea-level, where there are no mountains. Not at all like Faerûn (which is very hilly, just about everywhere).
So I'm thinking the Shaaran Plateau actually encompasses the whole of the Old Empires, including Murghôm and Semphar. In fact, we know its mostly cliffs along the Inner Sea there, where Murghôm/Mulhorand meets the Sea of Fallen Stars. Then we have some fairly flat (sea-level) land in Thazalhar, and then we go right back up into the Thayan plateau. Brightstar Lake (Once again, note the name) is yet another impact crater - one in the raised plateau.
If its got the words 'Star' or 'Moon' in it, you can bet something fell there.
Also, we have the draconic myths about the 'eggs falling from the sky', right? Could these be the same event? Could those things have created the dragons, or caused an apotheosis of the 'land wyrms' that were native to the region? Could the Power of the Primordials - the power of 'Nature Unleashed' - be the catalyst? The primordials are accredited for having created the dragons... was that an accident? In a similar fashion to how we blame nuclear fallout for creating Godzilla? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 01 Sep 2017 : 02:21:33
Not to overkill things, but we were kind of wondering if the landrise didn't initially crack and lift a little when something landed in Halruaa. Then we were wondering if when the great rift formed if the landrise didn't jump to its full height. Then we were wondering if at the great rift there wasn't another "bend" where the northern and western side sloped down and the southeastern side started rising (partly due to the shaar river's flow. Makes me wonder if something didn't actually smack into and form the great rift as well. It would explain the dwarves being able to mine so much there for centuries. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 31 Aug 2017 : 15:10:56
To have access to a "Pure AND unadulterated" Ed Greenwood Forgotten Realms. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 18:53:48
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Decided to follow this thread when I saw what THO posted  .
??
In the Questions for Ed Greenwood scroll, THO mentioned this thread. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 17:05:03
That gives me ideas for my Halruaan stuff... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 16:55:39
As for the 'thing' below Thay - my best guess it is related somehow to Telos in Vaasa and whatever is under Halruaa. Hmmmmm... Vaasa... Halruaa... maybe its should be Thaay? Ya know, like The Shaar (which has some connection to Shar, so sayeth Ed).
I think the Telos thing in Vaasa is actually nothing 'new' (except maybe to them, there) - that there have been others that were being 'tapped' all along. It might be what sent the Netherese to Halruaa in the first place ("The next time the magic goes out, we'll have our own damned power source!")
And whatever those are - primordials, or pieces of primordials? Or primordials + lots of other stuff that 'died' in the war? - I think they were 'drained' when they landed on Abeir-Toril, and they are collecting energy (Note that Telos 'heals' as quickly as they carve pieces out of him), and when they aren't being 'tapped' as a power source by some group (Halruaans, Thayans, Warlock Knights, maybe the dwarves of Guantlgrym, etc), they 'swell' (are getting filled with power they are slowly absorbing over time).
Thus, the Thayans being there may have actually been a 'good thing' for Faerûn, in the greater scheme of things; there usage has kept it 'contained'.
And there is also lore in the older Unapproachable East product (DotRW or Spellbound) about there being 'some ancient power sleeping beneath Aglarond {or close by}. I actually thought this was a Yuir Totem - some sea deity thats long forgotten about. But I think Umberlee actually makes a good Yuir Totem (ancient Fey power, like Auril), so it wouldn't make sense if she took the place of whatever is under Aglarond (or there-abouts). Who knows? Maybe the Yuir Totems and 'Lost Gods' were meant to be Ed's concept of the 'primordials' (more like proto-powers, before mortals starting ascending and becoming Gods in their own right).
Also, it seems like just about everywhere one of these thingies landed, there is a Chosen nearby, keeping watch... |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 15:36:46
Hmmm, and this THO in the Ask Ed in 2011
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14621&whichpage=38
The Chosen, during the time of Mystra's Weave, have no real need to read the Scrolls. Unless they try to learn things magical beyond the Weave itself, or something that Mystra and Azuth forbade them to try to find out (very few topics, but among them: killing a divine being or a fellow Chosen and the implications; the essence of refining raw magical power or darkfire [[note: yes, this IS canon, thanks to Mystara and some early TSR design decisions; it fulfills the function of magically-shrouded "antimatter" in the Realms]] into silver fire; and inquiring too closely into the nature of the Sharn [[being as some Sharn are former Chosen, Magisters, others of Mystra's servitors, or other beings Mystra and Azuth aided in "hiding" in Sharn form indefinitely or permanently]]), they can learn what they need to know through their own research, or observation, or through the Weave, or by asking Azuth or Mystra or fellow Chosen directly (there's no compulsion on any of those sources for obedient direct answering, mind you; in many matters, Azuth and Mystra believe that "learning things yourself" is the best way, because it makes their Chosen wiser and stronger than just being told answers).
So, perhaps the red wizards were practicing converting darkfire/raw magic into another source, or using raw magical power (aka darkfire) and converting it into silver fire. Maybe THIS is what their circles were truly about pre-ToT (noting their circles were all about giving extra spell slots, etc..). This could very much be used by me with the whole "they transferred to Abeir". Maybe they learned to use their knowledge of circle magic to convert raw magic into weave magic in the form of something like a mythallar over their communities. Maybe it was the fact that there were enough red wizards still around from pre-1358 (it was only 27 years prior to the spellplague so there likely were a lot of them). This could definitely explain their use of magic in Abeir.
Hmmm, the Imaskari who opposed Halaster... Madryoch the "Ebon Flame" who was in Metos in the Methwood near Unther and formed the shadowstone.... wonder if he was messing with raw magic/darkfire as well.
We have this reference from the shadow stone novel “The old Imaskari knew things we don't today. They did not wield the Weave the way we do. They used another source of power to fuel their spells.”
and also this, I'm seeing in another candlekeep forum entry from someone reviewing that novel.
To those of you who are wondering where the Shadow Stone came from (and don't mind a little spoiler), then read on... Oriseus once said, “Thousands of years ago, the Imaskari arose, first of all men to walk in this world. Unfettered by the powers and restrictions of gods, they had nothing to defy their understanding, their comprehension. The glories of Netheril and fallen Raumanthar were mere reflections of the first mages, the sorcerer lords who mastered magic in that forgotten age.
“And so the Imaskari ruled vast lands thousands of years before the rise of Mulhorand, of Unther, of Netheril and the other ancient kingdoms of man. They roamed the planes, building portals to a thousand times and worlds. And so they aroused the ire of the petty gods who rule over this sphere. These powers sought to bring down the Imaskari by withholding the Weave from them. The lords of the Imaskari thus turned to a source of magic from beyond this world, a source of magic that they could wield without answering to the rude demipowers of this sphere. They brought the Shadow Stone into this world, establishing a link or conduit through which they could draw on an energy that exists outside all time and space.”
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 14:45:36
Hmmm, and Thay.... preoccupation with fire... Volcanos nearby on the Thaymount... down in Kensten / (future Bezantur) an avatar of Kossuth was summoned by the Raumathari... Kossuth is the "black flame"... "black star"... and Kossuth is the only known elemental lord documented to have been active during the ToT, down in Chult using a firenewt as an avatar. After the ToT, the "artifact" is either gone or no longer empowered. Kind of makes sense that whatever hit Thay may have been the "body" of Kossuth.
Hmmm, Thayd possesses bodies and burns them out, literally.... might be able to twist into this somehow.
also in theory, the Untheric God of Fire, Girru died in this area during the orcgate wars... might be stretching things with that. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 14:35:16
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I would posit there was something like a proto-mythallar there, and that was what added the Thayans pre-ToT... Or maybe not a mythallar as such, but something that could be utilized in a similar fashion.
It could be something that fell from the sky, and the Ba'etith built a huge complex there to study/utilize this thing. Originally a small outpost on the edge of an impact crate, it grew into a large city, with the Landrise eventually being raised to contain and conceal both city and fallen object.
And this artifact could have even been what drew the pre-Thayans there. Perhaps Thayd wasn't a human, but was actually a sarrukh in disguise, and he wanted the Red Wizards there specifically because of this artifact.
Of course, when the ToT happened, some of the sarrukh that had acted as sleeping guardians woke up, realized their plateau was now infested with those annoying red-clad humans, all drawing magic from a sarrukh artifact, and decided they no longer wanted to share...
Ooh, or maybe the artifact is a fallen deity. The Landrise was raised to contain this former power... And when the ToT happened, the last remnants of godhood held by this divine prisoner were stripped away; this weakened the bindings and the former deity managed to escape. The former deity could have run afoul of and been slain by another avatar, or the former deity could have pulled a Waukeen, stepping into the planes and leave the Realms forever.
Yeah, at one point, we were positing whether Escalthar, who forced the Zulkirate to form.... and whose mage sigil was a "black star".... wait.... a black star.... falls to Toril, smashing into what will in the future become Amruthar.... said "black star" is maybe the artifact.
Anyway, we had been positing back in 2014 in this thread that Escalthar "the Black Star" was actually an avatar of Azuth possibly buried as the original gen con handout on the Zulkirs had indicated.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19411
If we want to link this as far back as the Sarrukh however, it has to be something other than Azuth. Hmmm, if what's beneath Halruaa is somehow an embodiment of the original Mystryl, might what was buried beneath Thay be some kind of embodiment of the original Shar (or whatever was "Shar").
This maybe raises another question.... when gods die, they form a "big stone body" that is formed in the astral... this body is protected by Anubis.... what if during the dawn war those dead god bodies didn't go to the astral? What if they fell and smashed into Toril and the world is littered with god corpses?
I know a few months back, we were wondering if a lot of cosmic stuff floating in wildspace wasn't somehow some kind of "entity". Makes me wonder even on things like Asgorath ..... is the King Killer Comet or somesuch actually that entity, and its simply able to form an avatar in the form of a dragon? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 13:34:40
I would posit there was something like a proto-mythallar there, and that was what added the Thayans pre-ToT... Or maybe not a mythallar as such, but something that could be utilized in a similar fashion.
It could be something that fell from the sky, and the Ba'etith built a huge complex there to study/utilize this thing. Originally a small outpost on the edge of an impact crate, it grew into a large city, with the Landrise eventually being raised to contain and conceal both city and fallen object.
And this artifact could have even been what drew the pre-Thayans there. Perhaps Thayd wasn't a human, but was actually a sarrukh in disguise, and he wanted the Red Wizards there specifically because of this artifact.
Of course, when the ToT happened, some of the sarrukh that had acted as sleeping guardians woke up, realized their plateau was now infested with those annoying red-clad humans, all drawing magic from a sarrukh artifact, and decided they no longer wanted to share...
Ooh, or maybe the artifact is a fallen deity. The Landrise was raised to contain this former power... And when the ToT happened, the last remnants of godhood held by this divine prisoner were stripped away; this weakened the bindings and the former deity managed to escape. The former deity could have run afoul of and been slain by another avatar, or the former deity could have pulled a Waukeen, stepping into the planes and leave the Realms forever. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 13:04:48
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Thay is a tough one - its like an 'inverse crater'. I actually toyed with the idea (for about 2 seconds) that something hit the planet from the other side. LOL
But if these... whatever... 'swell' for some reason, that explains the Landrise AND Thay.
And lets not forget there is most certainly something alive, sentient, and GROWING beneath the High Forest as well.
Perhaps the ruined and twisted remains of a vast Ba'etith, multi-levelled settlement ...
-- George Krashos
Yep, there's definitely SOMETHING to do with the old Sarrukh there. Wonder if whatever may have crashed here was intentionally to ruin their culture? Wonder if this group had something to do with the artifact going quiet following the ToT? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 13:01:40
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Thay is a tough one - its like an 'inverse crater'. I actually toyed with the idea (for about 2 seconds) that something hit the planet from the other side. LOL
But if these... whatever... 'swell' for some reason, that explains the Landrise AND Thay.
And lets not forget there is most certainly something alive, sentient, and GROWING beneath the High Forest as well.
Unless the first and second escarpment of Thay was originally both high up there maybe and the "thing that slams into future Amruthar" actually caused the lower part of the country to collapse and form the 3 tiers of escarpments? Hell, maybe the Sunrise mountains to its west were previously just hills and when the second escarpment was formed they essentially became mountains?
Also, for those who don't know the reference we're talking about, this is where it comes from. In no other product is there a reference to this (that I know of anyway), so it was only "created" AFTER it was broken as a mystery to be explored.
From 2e Forgotten Realms Adventures, pg 127
Prior to the Time of Troubles, the Red Wizards wielded greater magical power than they do now. This was due in part to a magical artifact operating within the depths of Amruthar that extended power
to those pledged to the Red Wizards (this artifact became just one more pawn in the massive human chess games engaged in by the Zulkirs and Tharchions). During the magical chaos of the Godswar the device
was either deactivated, stolen, or destroyed; in any event, its benefits to the Red Wizards were lost. The Red Wizards in the post-Avatar Realms are treated as normal mages with no special powers (or
specialist mages if they belong to a particular school). This sudden reduction in power to mere human levels has badly rattled the rulership of Thay, but has also led them to redouble their devotion to
wheeling, dealing, scheming, and plotting. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 11:01:18
I like that idea, but why would the baetith build such a huge construction and why all the way over there.
Why is my new favourite word it would seem. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 10:39:16
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Thay is a tough one - its like an 'inverse crater'. I actually toyed with the idea (for about 2 seconds) that something hit the planet from the other side. LOL
But if these... whatever... 'swell' for some reason, that explains the Landrise AND Thay.
And lets not forget there is most certainly something alive, sentient, and GROWING beneath the High Forest as well.
Perhaps the ruined and twisted remains of a vast Ba'etith, multi-levelled settlement ...
-- George Krashos |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 09:05:21
A primordial trying to free himself from its prison, most likely (?) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 07:00:26
Thay is a tough one - its like an 'inverse crater'. I actually toyed with the idea (for about 2 seconds) that something hit the planet from the other side. LOL
But if these... whatever... 'swell' for some reason, that explains the Landrise AND Thay.
And lets not forget there is most certainly something alive, sentient, and GROWING beneath the High Forest as well. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 00:58:42
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
AHEM...
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
And I'd just like to amplify what I said above: Markustay has spotted a lot of the impact craters that pockmark the landscapes of Toril (Halruaa, the Tunlands, Cormyr, etc.) Every assertion he makes in the Landrise thread sleyvas started is correct.
As for the root question of that thread, hopefully I can nudge Ed into an answer, in the fullness of time...
love to all,
THO
And YES, absolutely this means I will never let any of you live this moment down. 
There are times in this life - rare ones, for me - when you deserve to 'strut like a peacock'. And tomorrow is my birthday, so thank you Ed and THO, for probably giving me the best birthday present - that I haven't spent the last 12 years or so staring at these maps and seeing them tell me a story all their own, and I wasn't crazy.
CHEERS
Hmmm, makes me wonder about the "artifact" beneath Thay and the rising of the Priador. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Aug 2017 : 23:49:17
AHEM...
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
And I'd just like to amplify what I said above: Markustay has spotted a lot of the impact craters that pockmark the landscapes of Toril (Halruaa, the Tunlands, Cormyr, etc.) Every assertion he makes in the Landrise thread sleyvas started is correct.
As for the root question of that thread, hopefully I can nudge Ed into an answer, in the fullness of time...
love to all,
THO
And YES, absolutely this means I will never let any of you live this moment down.
There are times in this life - rare ones, for me - when you deserve to 'strut like a peacock'. And tomorrow is my birthday, so thank you Ed and THO, for probably giving me the best birthday present - that I haven't spent the last 12 years or so staring at these maps and seeing them tell me a story all their own, and I wasn't crazy.
CHEERS |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 29 Aug 2017 : 23:25:11
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Decided to follow this thread when I saw what THO posted .
?? |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 29 Aug 2017 : 21:38:24
Decided to follow this thread when I saw what THO posted . |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 29 Aug 2017 : 15:53:56
Sounds legit... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Aug 2017 : 18:25:53
The Great Rift WAS on an elevated piece of land - practically the entirety of the Eastern Shaar. In fact, going by that river (discussed elsewhere in regards to Pelvuria), the bottom of the Great rift (pre-4e) was level with the lower portion of the Shar to the west.
Now, what that means is that it isn't so much a 'sinkhole', as it is the only piece of stable geography in the immediate vicinity. I didn't go down... everything else came up. A more natural (and I am no scientist, so if I get this completely wrong, my apologies) reason is that that region is on bedrock, whereas the surrounding region is just 'soil', which suffered a tremendous upheaval for whatever reason - possibly a sudden influx of water (like what happened as of 4e - trillions of gallons of water pouring into vast underground caverns would change a LOT of stuff - if it hits a thermal volcanic environment - and we do have volcanoes nearby - it could have built up massive pressure, literally 'blowing the lid off' the one stable spot in the region).
Of course, in something else I wrote, I blame the collapse on the Dark Elves being stupid (hubris) about how they were building in the cavern. Tell me you can't see this scenario happening:
Male Drow Engineer: "But Matron Mother, if we cut out all the columns, we'd lose support. It can't be done!"
Matron Mother Inbredia: "So you are telling me you are unwilling to follow my explicit instructions?"
Engineer: "Not at all your eminence, I am just stating that it would not be a good idea..."
Matron Mother: "So now you are calling me stupid?! Cut off his head, and then have those ugly columns cut out! They're blocking my lovely view of the fetid swamp!"
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| sleyvas |
Posted - 28 Aug 2017 : 13:17:39
Yeah, I think I will stick with the concept that it occurred when the collapse of Telantiwar/Bhaerynden happened. I do like the idea that the landrise was a fault line though that had already cracked and been under tension for a long time. So, I'm picturing the land along the landrise tilts upward in the east and down in the west. This causes earthquakes and the collapse on the drow city/ creation of the great rift. Meanwhile, a tunnel that previously went at about a 10 degree angle downwards from Telantiwar instead becomes a 5 degree angle downward and becomes the source of the river shaar that runs under the eastern shaar and exiting out of the newly tilted landrise edge. Eventually after 8 thousand or so years, this river forms a small gorge (maybe ~5-10 miles long?).
This also makes me wonder if there isn't some secondary tilt in the eastern shaar along the edges of the great rift. The idea I'm thinking here would be that the southern and eastern sides of the great rift might be higher than the northern and western sides. Given that if the sudden tilting along the landrise caused some tension, the crust may have shifted.... and it also fits that things "flow" towards the north and west in the great rift. All of these shifts would be relatively hard to detect, but it could explain run off in the eastern shaar possibly flowing towards the great rift, and eventually out the river shaar. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 28 Aug 2017 : 04:04:44
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hey, when was the landrise created? I am kind of wondering if when the cavern of Bhaerynden collapsed on the drow culture of Telantiwar and created the Great Rift.... maybe it was then?Is there anywhere that contradicts this? I note that the map of the crown wars in GHotR doesn't show it being there then.
Possibly. The Great Rift is far too large for a city blowing up. Even a nuke.
Now, if there were pre-existing tensions in the big tectonic plate below and perhaps sedimentary layers above as well, and then a huge explosion happened right in a weakened (natural caves + excavated even more) area, and it triggered an earthquake, while starting the crack that could develop across the already strained plate... this sounds about right.
Out-of-Universe reason, of course, is a posteriori explanation for "why the Great Rift is not the main sinkhole for the Eastern AND Western Shaar" is necessary - for this, it should be on a hard and generally risen part of the land.
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Several mechanics could have been the cause of the Landrise.
Sudden and massive vulcanic activity is highly likely, as the nearby Lake of Steam region is known for its steaming fumaroles and vulcanos and I suspect the Firesteap mountains the Landrise ends in to be the result of many vulcanic flows as well.
Gradual lift by repeated sudden seismic activity can be the cause, perhaps triggered by the uplift of two connected vulcanic mountain chains. The flow of magma from the surrounding vulcanos into basin areas of the Landrise i.e. the lower parts of the Western Shaar could result in even more landfall.
Sounds about right. Though in which order it happened (and where Telantiwar kaboom fits into this) is another question...
To think of it, sudden release of tension can easily cause even more cracks. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Aug 2017 : 03:51:59
Well, I have Storm king's Thunder, so between the two of us we know everything.  |
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