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 Paths of Power Concept from 2e updated to 5e/3e

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sleyvas Posted - 23 Feb 2017 : 15:30:40
Obviously, I'm a big proponent of "hey, let's see some optional rules to help flex 5e's muscles". We could stand to see a lot more spells. However, after all the editions that I've seen, I know exactly what happens now if you just start piling on wizard spell after wizard spell (or cleric spell after cleric spell, or any other class). Note, you can also easily adapt the below to 3e/3.5e IF you make a master list of all spells. In fact, it would probably be easier to adapt this concept to 3e/3.5e than 5e due to the already out there hundreds of spells.

What's the fix to this? I think we should go back and visit some 2nd edition ideas for wizards. Specifically, the Paths of Power idea that was in one dragon magazine (Dragon #216 in fact). Ironically, this was by Wolfgang Baur, who at the time I had no clue who he was, but now I love much of what I've seen by him. This concept could work well with aiding sorcerers too, lets say if we added a feat that let them "know" all the spells of a certain path of power. Similarly, separate paths could be developed for warlocks, bards, clerics, and druids as well.... though I'd recommend changing the name to "spheres of influence" for the priestly types, and similar for the other bards/warlocks to avoid confusion with wizards/sorcerer paths (or define exactly which paths bards/warlocks can know). I wouldn't recommend it for the hybrid casters like paladins/rangers.

In that article, each wizard learned a "path of power" and that allowed them to learn certain spells that are on that paths lists. Then some paths may depend upon you having earlier paths. So, for simplicity, you might have a path of fire, a path of Thunder and Lightning, a path of poison, a path of ice, a path of force, and then have a greater path of area effects that depends on having two of the aforementioned (which is strictly burst and cone area effects of differing elements) and maybe a greater path of targeted effects (which is single targeted, line, or touch effects)... there similarly could be a path of abjuration... a path of shadow magic... etc...

The general concept here would be that you would automatically have whatever is in the Player's Handbook. Let's call all of those spells "the Universal Path". If new spells come out they can be assigned to this Universal Path. They can ALSO be assigned to a Path of Power (having them in both could be useful to say sorcerers using feats as discussed above). It might be worthwhile to say give some free paths based off the wizard school specialized in. As the spellcaster levels up, giving them access to a free new path every once in a while allows for control of what spells they can learn. The same feat that would allow sorcerers to gain extra known spells might also be takeable by wizards to gain extra paths.

The problem here for 5e and for this concept to work is that a given path of magic should have a LOT of spells of similar type. In order to make this work for 5e (since they aren't coming out with books), a DM would probably have to cull DM's guild and make a master list of spells that are good from various resources (which I have started to do, so it could be fun). The reason why I don't think this worked in 2e was that they were trying to be a little too stingy in the number of spells to a path (which probably just had to do with the fact that it was for a dragon article). It should not be something where DM's have to sit there and go "this has to have one 1st level, one 2nd level, one 3rd level".

There should also still be the option of a player "developing new spells" or putting a spell from another path into their spellbook. However, there should be more to this than "hey I spent time and money, and now I got it". Basically, a player should be able to develop new paths. So, let's say they want X spell learned for themselves that uses "Southern Magic", but they don't want to learn the whole "Southern Magic" path. The player develops a list of similar types of spells, possibly from across multiple resources. The DM then either OK's the list or modifies it. There then needs to be a mechanic for the player having "spent the time" to get this new path (feat? some other "thing" we tag on that they gain every few levels that artificially controls the size of their spellbook?). If the DM later sees something new, he can even add that to the list so that the player has access to some new material that fits his path.


Ok, now that we have the base concept in mind. What are paths? They could be anything. Maybe its a type of energy. Maybe its a school of magic. Maybe its a grouping of spells tied to a culture/plane/race (and thus some paths may have special requirements). It should be noted that some spells could easily be on multiple paths. So, with that in mind, just for fun, if you are so inclined to help me.... let's throw out some path names for fun?

Path of lesser Fire and Ice
Path of greater Fire
Path of greater Ice and Water
Path of lesser Thunder and Lightning
Path of greater Weather Magics (i.e. sonic, electricity, and weather spells)
Path of Poison and Disease
Path of Force
Path of Summoning
Path of Personal Protections
Path of Radiance and Visual Illusions
Path of Terror and Nightmares
Path of Mental Control
Path of Investigation
Path of Necromantic Creation
Path of Death and Curse Magics
Path of the Alchemist & Potion Brewer
Path of the Artificer & Construct Maker
Path of the Acolyte Chronomancer
Path of Transportation & Travel Magics (planar travel and spells that provide shelter and food, etc...)
Path of Ritual Magics
Path of Deception and Shadow Magic
Path of Weapon Ensorcelment
Path of Shape Changing

The regional/cultural paths could also be of interest, such as
Path of Southern Mulan Magics
Path of Ancient Imaskar
Path of Ancient Raumathar
Path of Ancient Narfell
Path of Halruaa
Path of Calimshan
Path of Nimbral
Path of Zakharan Wizardry
Path of the Eastern Wu-Jen
Path of the Tel'Quessir
Path of the Dwarves, Gnomes, and Giantkind
Path of the Drow

There could also be some "metamagic" paths like the below
Path of Contingency (this would be specifically for metamagic effects that you set the trigger, target, etc... and the effect happens without your control... a big difference in this and the one below is the part about concentration)

Path of Mantles, Embattlements, and Hung Spells (metamagic effects wherein you precast a spell that requires no concentration, then later you can release said spell as an extra effect in a round... the big difference between this and the above is you gain greater control over your effects, BUT most would have to be instantaneous type effects)

Path of Counterspelling & Resistance Reduction (spells that either counter spells or enhance the chances of your own spells affecting someone else)

Path of Runes, Glyphs, and Gem Magics (metamagic effects wherein you place another spell as some kind of ward effect for an area)

Path of Tattoo, Incarnum, and Spirit Binding Magic (this would be similiar to abjuration, but would be essentially all kinds of magics about "boosting" the character and/or spells that enable you to make other spells last longer on the character or allow you to turn them on and off to extend their duration)

Path of Concentration (this would be for metamagic type spells that allow you to modify concentration.... ala, give concentration to a familiar, split your mind temporarily, give concentration for the ongoing effect to the target of a touch spell, etc... not all concentration spells)

Path of Retributive Shielding (this would be spells that allow you to affect folks that hit you.. the shielding might also offer some form of protection)

Also, we could steal from the 3e concept of domain spells for clerics, and offer some small bonus, and for those paths that have a crappy list of spells, maybe that bonus is kind of nice. So, for instance, if the path of concentration only has a handful of spells, maybe once between rests the character can transfer concentration of a spell to a touched target. Maybe a person with the path of weapon ensorcelment could cast a spell on their weapon 1/day and not need to maintain concentration. Maybe in the case of the path of lesser fire, the character can prepare an additional spell from said path every day (this might be a standard generic one for most of the paths).

I'm thinking free paths of power would be given to a wizard on a 3rd/5th level basis (so 3rd, 5th, 8th, 10th, 13th, 15th, 18th, 20th levels). It should be noted that the idea here is that you give access to the wizard to scribe said spells into their spellbook (given time and resources). They would still need to put them in their spellbooks and make them available to themselves on any given day. Sorcerers would have to take the appropriate feat, or you could maybe incorporate some rules giving them a free path or maybe two (say one at 10th and one at 15th?).
3   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
sleyvas Posted - 24 Feb 2017 : 16:44:22
Hmmm, wasn't really planning do develop another "wizard" product, but this could be fun. I'll keep posting in case it gives anyone ideas to insert, then may take this on the side to play with.

Actually, as I look this over... one of the concepts that we've discussed in the past was the idea that metamagic in 2e was done via spell, and in 3e you had to have the feat. So, in 2e, via cherry picking various spells like vocalize, the various spell storing spells, etc.... a mage could get away with a LOT. I know a lot of people don't want to institute feats for say contingencies, etc... and this may be a way to give mages some other paths to magic .... though some may complain that this takes away from the sorcerers metamagic capability.

Some of the paths may even open up spellcasting in other typically non-wizard lines, which could open up concepts that were in later 3e like where a wizard could learn spells from a clerical domain. For instance, if there were a path of the fey (or maybe a better name, path of nature), it might open up some druidic/ranger spells to a wizard. A path of White necromancy for instance.

Ideas for some of the paths to develop spells for them

The path of the artificer - I'm seeing this as the path of the person that studies magic item creation. So, maybe some spells to "quick attune" yourself to wands, staves, rods, rings... or to increase your number of attunable devices per day.... maybe a spell to allow you to have multiple copies of the same type of wand and attune to all at once (say you have 3 or 4 "wands of lightning").... or possibly to dual activate two charges in a wand at once or somesuch




AND just to kind of keep a running list of Paths

Path of lesser Fire and Ice
Path of greater Fire
Path of greater Ice and Water
Path of lesser Thunder and Lightning
Path of greater Weather Magics (i.e. sonic, electricity, and weather spells)
Path of Poison and Disease
Path of Force
Path of Summoning
Path of Personal Protections
Path of Radiance and Visual Illusions
Path of Terror and Nightmares
Path of Mental Control
Path of Investigation
Path of Necromantic Creation
Path of Death and Curse Magics
Path of the Alchemist & Potion Brewer
Path of the Artificer & Construct Maker
Path of the Acolyte Chronomancer
Path of Transportation & Travel Magics (planar travel and spells that provide shelter and food, etc...)
Path of Ritual Magics
Path of Deception and Shadow Magic
Path of Weapon Ensorcelment
Path of Shape Changing
Path of the Fiend
Path of the Celestial
Path of the Nature
Path of White Necromancy


Path of the Northmen Magics
Path of the Vremyonni
Path of the Durthan
Path of the Wychlaran
Path of Southern Mulan Magics
Path of Ancient Imaskar
Path of Ancient Raumathar
Path of Ancient Narfell
Path of Halruaa
Path of Calimshan
Path of Nimbral
Path of Zakharan Wizardry (note may include some Calishite magics)
Path of the Eastern Wu-Jen
Path of the Tel'Quessir
Path of the Dwarves, Gnomes, and Giantkind
Path of the Drow
Path of Pluma
Path of Hishna
Path of Netheril
Path of the Sarrukh (this should have some spells for transforming creatures)
Path of the Batrachi (this should have some spells for transforming creatures)
Path of the Dragon
Path of the Aearee (this should have some spells for transforming creatures)

Path of Contingency (this would be specifically for metamagic effects that you set the trigger, target, etc... and the effect happens without your control... a big difference in this and the one below is the part about concentration)

Path of Mantles, Embattlements, and Hung Spells (metamagic effects wherein you precast a spell that requires no concentration, then later you can release said spell as an extra effect in a round... the big difference between this and the above is you gain greater control over your effects, BUT most would have to be instantaneous type effects)

Path of Counterspelling & Resistance Reduction (spells that either counter spells or enhance the chances of your own spells affecting someone else)

Path of Runes, Glyphs, and Gem Magics (metamagic effects wherein you place another spell as some kind of ward effect for an area)

Path of Tattoo, Incarnum, and Spirit Binding Magic (this would be similiar to abjuration, but would be essentially all kinds of magics about "boosting" the character and/or spells that enable you to make other spells last longer on the character or allow you to turn them on and off to extend their duration)

Path of Concentration (this would be for metamagic type spells that allow you to modify concentration.... ala, give concentration to a familiar, split your mind temporarily, give concentration for the ongoing effect to the target of a touch spell, etc... not all concentration spells)

Path of Retributive Shielding (this would be spells that allow you to affect folks that hit you.. the shielding might also offer some form of protection)







sleyvas Posted - 24 Feb 2017 : 15:22:03
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

I'm honestly unfamiliar with the source material. It looks a lot like Pathfinder'd bloodlines, though.



It would be somewhat in that its a collection of spells that you now have access to scribe. I'm imagining bloodlines is "hey I'm a sorcerer and my blood comes from mindflayers so I get these say 9 extra spells that I know". Those spells are perfectly leveled 1-9 all the way up.

This wouldn't be that. Some of these paths might give you access to a ton of 1-4th level spells, but all of a similar type (and for lower level casters, choosing this path at low levels may be great...). Other paths may be only higher level spells. Some paths may have 50 or even 100 spells in them, but they're all very similar. Others might have only 4. I'd bet the average ends up with say 30 (again, this is if you actually cull say DM's guild for 5e or the 3e/3.5e rulebooks... or I guess even PF this could help with). Sounds absolutely wrong right now as you read that, huh? Well, sit back for a second and realize... the wizard has no bounds on what and how many spells he can truly scribe other than time, money, and access. So, what you're doing is allowing for new magics to be added into the system and somewhat control how much they can be abused.

Many DM's go with the idea that you kill a wizard and you only get a handful of spells in their spellbooks. Honestly, this is a load of crap. Every wizard has to rescribe spells. Most upper level wizards have killed another spellcaster at some point AND TAKEN THEIR SPELLBOOKS. A lot of times a wizard ends up with a ton of spellbooks with spells that they never even have time to scribe into their own spellbooks, but they keep those other wizard's books. Then a lot of them donate junk spellbooks to their local wizard's guilds in order to access spellbooks there. Then some wizards trade the right to copy spells. So, access? Check for a lot of spells. Time? at the upper levels, sure. Money? ok, this can be the deciding factor.... but with time and access, now they can cherry pick the BEST spells to scribe.

This paths concept is a way for you to say "you just can't go around and cherry pick spells.... you're a wizard who spends his time studying, but you can't study all the concepts". Also, just because you have the access, doesn't mean all of them are scribed in your books. For sorcerers, you'd probably need to say that with a feat they can get X number of known spells from that path. Or hell, for sorcerers, develop something totally different (like as you say, bloodlines). For wizards, outside of the path system itself, it might be worth it to say that you automatically get access to any school you've "specialized" in (i.e. abjurers get access to scribe any abjuration spell that they can find, evokers get access to evocations).... and this could give some actual repercussions in 5e for those who choose say an arcane tradition outside of the traditional 8 schools. That being said, alternate arcane traditions might also have a path of magic devoted to them as well (for instance, I developed a vremyonni arcane tradition... so we could develop a spell list that fits the vremyonni fields of study).

Honestly, with this type of system, I'm not quite sure myself what would be the best paths to choose. For instance, something like the path of fire would get you a lot of different types of magic (for instance, fire shields, fire attacks, fire summonings), but something like a path of contingencies opens up a lot of flexibility. Then there are the regional/cultural paths which may open up a lot of different types of spells, but may not net ALL the ones you want (for instance, following a path of Netheril might net you some "mantle" type spells such as the Sash of Spells adaptation, but may not get you say an adaptation of the Simbul's spell triggers or Algarth's Embattlement)


NOTE: add some more paths
Path of Netheril
Path of the Sarrukh (this should have some spells for transforming creatures)
Path of the Batrachi (this should have some spells for transforming creatures)
Path of the Dragon
Path of the Aearee (this should have some spells for transforming creatures)
Path of the Fiend
Path of the Celestial
Path of the Fey


Hmmm, might be worth developing a database, which I haven't done in 20 years...
LordofBones Posted - 24 Feb 2017 : 06:27:43
I'm honestly unfamiliar with the source material. It looks a lot like Pathfinder'd bloodlines, though.

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