| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ari |
Posted - 04 Feb 2017 : 09:43:47
So in the 4e books and Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, Neverwinter is mentioned as being a monarchy. Putting aside how that makes no sense whatsoever, since a remote trade city with no regional power cannot be a kngdom of any kind, that could easily be fixed in a few ways:
1) The title and the Crown are relics of some would-be usurper of the city, a kind of shadow-side of the Halueth/Nasher coin, with rogue adventurers trying to carve out territory up in the harsh and isolated North.
2) The "King of Neverwinter" is the accidental or purposeful conflation by Lord Pumpkinhair Neverember with a real local royal lineage, maybe one of Illusk(Illefarn is tempting, but Dagult doesn't have elvenblood), that popular imagination has run with to dangerous levels.
3) Similar to 2, but it's a total fabrication and even the "real" Crown is just a plausible (and expensive) forgery. The lack of preserved records and most longtime long-lived inhabitants having left makes it relatively easy to keep the idea going. That and the desire for stability and continuity that having a "real" king with a magic destiny might fill.
Curious how you folks dealt with it?
Besides ignoring it, which is plain-cheatin'. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ari |
Posted - 11 Feb 2017 : 18:19:04
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't want you to think I hadn't noticed this -
quote:
Originally posted by Ari
Markustay, would you mind giving me/us the gist of this locale? Even if just a link to where you've already gotten into more detail about it years ago.
In order to do it justice, I want to make sure I have that region 'up to speed'; in other words, any lore I write for it I want to make sure doesn't contradict anything in 4e and 5e as well (even though I had originally written it up for 2e/3e). I've only purchased the 4e Neverwinter Guide today, so I can now update my material for all editions... hopefully when I have some spare time. But in the interim, this is the basic gist of things -
In my 'travels' (geography research) I've come across another Waterdahvian Keep along the road north - Swordhold - located to the west of the High Road in the foothills of the Sword mountains. This was featured in LGR-17, and is about 2/3 the way north to Thornhold, which got me thinking... shouldn't such things be evenly spaced? Especially given the brilliant and somewhat anal attention to detail several of the Masked Lords are known to have had (at least, in years past)?
Thus, about a 1/3 of the way along the Sword mountains I created another keep right on the cliff-face over-looking the Sea of Swords called 'Grimsea'. Another minor reason for this placement was that older maps showed a road up to that point, but a trail beyond that point, so I felt something needed to be there to justify the change in road-types; I think all later maps (3e+) shows a road all the way to Neverwinter, so this didn't matter as much. The official name of the place is 'Seahold', and its designed to hold 60 troops normally (although it can easily house twice that in a pinch, but usually only has 40 troops present at the most).
The thing I wanted to write-up would use this new keep as a frame to do an article on how Waterdeep patrols its (actually very large) borders, including the route* troops take as the are cycled back to Waterdeep after being stationed away from the city (this duty is usually - but not always - considered a 'punishment' by those having to do it). All of this was inspired by some stuff I was working on with Eric Boyd at the time (having to do with the patrols that traveled south to Daggerford). Grimsea is never a fun place to be stationed, especially in the winter months, with ice forming on the Keep's walls, and the wind off the sea howling through the night, hence the name.
*Not-so-affectionately referred to as "the long road home" by troops having to do it. Troops are cycled-off to the next keep in groups of 20, every 30 days, so there are always fresh troops coming in, and older troops leaving.
"Another minor reason for this placement was that older maps showed a road up to that point, but a trail beyond that point, so I felt something needed to be there to justify the change in road-type"
I cannot even imagine BEGINNING to try and reconcile the various editions' differing maps. So much stuff just moves around or vanishes, that to me is the definition of a Quixotic quest.
And you can't even excuse it with "well, they don't really know the geography". People can just scry or look through the eyes of eagles or some similar nonsense.
But yeah, waystations and holdfasts are a great way to imply borders and spheres of influence. The mismatch of naming means it can be a little iffy trying to figure out the region a locale is in just from the name(never thought I'd miss Westeros' all-English placenames), so these new ones being in English is a good measure. Like how Dwarven citadels and "castles" all have 'bar' at the end of their name.
And Markustay, a Justice League ripoff in Neverwinter would be perfect for its Golden Age under the ancien regime. Also it desperately needs a wind elemental bound to a helmed horror. It's always been a cosmopolitan place. Though Waterdeep might be better for the superhero riffs since it's basically New York and has remained more or less stable. Neverwinter is more like Montreal or Toronto.
(That's a deadly insult to one of those. Depends which you're from!)
The Fake Crown of Neverwinter being a known while also known as fake while the Lost Crown of Neverwinter being totally lost does make sense. My issue is more how the "real" Crown as written just kills you. The Fake Crown drives you mad because it,s sabotaged, but the real one was designed to be lethal. That seems at odds with Neverwinter's existing themes of preserving life and peace in the inhospitable and brutal North, where Luskan is more what you'd expect a city in such grim conditions to be like. If you're not a "true heir", why doesn,t the Crown just not work? That seems more in keeping since it operates in tandem with "human" ability, like how the Neverwinter River would just be an unusually warm river without mortal ingenuity using it to establish a viable trading port. Without existing talent or legitimacy the magic is useless.
On additional topics, I re-read the NCS book to check that it was in fact just called "Neverwinter River", which is some Gift of the Nile business, and again there's no old signs of having been a kingdom! No ancestral holdings, no fortresses in the Crags, no ghost towns in the High Forest, not even attempted rebuilding of Sharandar prior to the Fewilde immigration. And scattering random ruins around would even make perfect sense! But the only ones are Gauntlgrym and Xinelal of Netheril, even Sharandar is just a place people stole old carvings of naked elves from.
So if Neverwinter was the center of a kngdom just a hundred years ago, where would you put the old good stuff? I like a butt-huge castle in the Mere of Dead Men, because making Monty Python references never gets old when the DM does it. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 09 Feb 2017 : 18:06:08
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
No, I know. I just can't help making fun of the name (having grown-up watching the Super Friends cartoon in the 70's).
It is just SO tempting to write-up a group of Paladins working for the place... An amazon from Ixinos, and Avariel (and maybe his wife), a quickling, a mage with an artifact ring, a psionic Triton, etc, etc...
Damn you Markustay..... now you infected me, and I won't be able to get that out of my head all day. A fighter/mage/eldritch knight with a cloak of the bat, <snip>
And his trusty halfling thief sidekick, Corby...
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Con't... a couple of young twin druids...
Half-elven druids, and their House-broken Su-monster...
  |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 09 Feb 2017 : 17:02:48
According to the NCS the Crown is a McGuffin. The books leaves the location of the item and its importance in the campaign to the DM (something I love of the NCS is the freedom a DM has with his/her version of Neverwinter).
According to some ambient dialog in the MMO (at least, in the gameplays I've watched) Neverember got the fake Crown after Seldra's quest line ends, but he is clever enough to not wear it (because the curse), so he stored it in the Hall of Justice (insert super friends background music here). Some people in Neverwinter says he doesn't use it because he knows he isn't the true heir of Neverwinter, and that can be used to stir his opposition (the Sons of Alagondars and the Harpers, for instance). However, a few NPC quest givers say that while maybe he is an opportunistic, he is the leader the Neverwintans need. At least for now (paraphrased —the NPC that serves as a narrator in SCAG says something similar), so they don't have problem with Neverember storing the (fake) Crown somewhere.
I guess the real Crown do not exists in the MMO (I've not seeing it in the game wikis), only in the NCS as a tool for the DM.
The MMO have, though, a fool's version of the Crown.
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Fools%27_Crown_of_Neverwinter |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 09 Feb 2017 : 14:04:36
The real crown is also repeatedly stated to be missing in the NCS. Nobody knows where it is.
People do know where Seldra's fake crown is however. Also, it's never mentioned that anyone but Seldra knew that her Crown was fake.
So I ask you, what's more likely? Is the real Crown of Neverwinter actually in the possession of Neverember and not missing at all, or is it the fake one he took off Seldra?
I suppose both could potentially be true and you should pick what works best for your game but I just think that a lost crown remaining lost and a duplicate that also has magic about it being mistaken for the real thing is more believable. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 08 Feb 2017 : 18:53:28
The real Crown is described in the Neverwinter Campaign Setting. It gives a "true heir" of Neverwinter magical protection against fire and ice, has a daily power that protects the wearer against stun, dominating or dazing effects, and improves his/her charisma based skills. If the wearer is not a "true heir", the Crown kills it (or so the legend says; the actual item does not have that property). If you have the NCS, you can find the item in the section about Castle Never.
Note that the Crown favors a "true heir of Neverwinter", and this can be interpreted in many ways. A true heir maybe a descendant of Lord Nasher, or maybe not. It can be someone unrelated to the Alagondars, but worthy of their legacy. It can even be Lord Neverember. The book leaves that to the DM. |
| Ari |
Posted - 08 Feb 2017 : 18:40:45
One thing I'm curious about is the "real" Crown of the Alagondars. While it is a nice security countermeasure for it to kill anyone not of the royal family who wears it, but it also sounds an awful lot like a repurposed bad guy's bit of jewelry. If you wanted a warning or sign they weren't legit light or a loud voice or any number of other things would work too. Generally, it's not a good thi to just kill someone for wearing a terrible hat that doesn't belong to them.
And Nasher did retire with a truckload of magic artifacts from excavating in the North, this could easily have been something the Cloaktower mages modified into the royal regalia of Neverwinter. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 08 Feb 2017 : 13:27:39
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
No, I know. I just can't help making fun of the name (having grown-up watching the Super Friends cartoon in the 70's).
It is just SO tempting to write-up a group of Paladins working for the place... An amazon from Ixinos, and Avariel (and maybe his wife), a quickling, a mage with an artifact ring, a psionic Triton, etc, etc...
Damn you Markustay..... now you infected me, and I won't be able to get that out of my head all day. A fighter/mage/eldritch knight with a cloak of the bat, a couple of young twin druids... |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 08 Feb 2017 : 13:22:32
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
If the Neverwinter MMO is to be believed, Seldra's fake crown is being kept beneath the Hall of Justice.
The Hall of Justice? 
And the Super Friends don't even know about it? 
EDIT: Now I'm picturing THIS in the Mere of Dead Men.
The Hall of Justice is the (former) temple of Tyr (depends of the era you're playing). If I'm not wrong, it exists since 2e, as is mentioned in Volo's Guide to the North.
Kind of interesting to me, since I've always had it that Tyr had a rather large presence in Neverwinter (via my NPC family of the Doncastles of Neverwinter). |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 07 Feb 2017 : 13:50:46
Thanks. I will get this adventure asap.
EDIT: I've got the Adventure. It's interesting really, why didn't I known about it when I began my Neverwinter Campaign? It's a good start for level 1 players. There is even a dragon!
About the Crown, according to the adventure this "madness" imposing fake Crown is different from the real Crown (the one depicting in the NCS). I guess I'm going to adapt this plot to my next Neverwinter Campaign. |
| Matrix Sorcica |
Posted - 07 Feb 2017 : 10:06:21
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
Neverember tried to convince people that he was a relative of the Alagondar line but few believed him. He resolved not to try and lay claim to the Crown (which IS a fake).
Someone who had far more success was actually related to Aribeth De Tylmarande of Neverwinter Nights fame. This half-elf, Seldra, who was one of Neverember's spies, had the fake Crown of Neverwinter forged in Waterdeep but it was cursed by a Red Wizard to drive the wearer mad.
With a spellscar that held power over magical beasts, she nearly completed a popular coup against her boss using a male alias who was a direct descendant of King Nasher. Unfortunately for her, the ensuing madness helped cause her downfall and the plot failed.
It was all an attempt to clear her family name of Aribeth's taint. If the Neverwinter MMO is to be believed, Seldra's fake crown is being kept beneath the Hall of Justice.
This is interesting. I do not play the MMO, but I'm tempted to adapt its story to advance the timeline of my campaign. However, the Crown of Neverwinter depicted in the MMO doesn't looks like the one published in the Neverwinter Campaign Setting. The one from the book doesn't have adverse effects to the wearer (unless you're a fake claimant to the throne. In this case, the crown will destroy you in a rain of frost and fire... but not make you mad).
The plot with the cursed Crown and Seldra's almost-coup is from the D&D Encounters adventure Lost Crown of Neverwinter. What happens to the crown after is not clear from the adventure, so here the MMO lore might be relevant. |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 07 Feb 2017 : 05:53:53
Make it so. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 06 Feb 2017 : 18:38:48
No, I know. I just can't help making fun of the name (having grown-up watching the Super Friends cartoon in the 70's).
It is just SO tempting to write-up a group of Paladins working for the place... An amazon from Ixinos, and Avariel (and maybe his wife), a quickling, a mage with an artifact ring, a psionic Triton, etc, etc... |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 06 Feb 2017 : 18:03:54
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
If the Neverwinter MMO is to be believed, Seldra's fake crown is being kept beneath the Hall of Justice.
The Hall of Justice?
And the Super Friends don't even know about it?
EDIT: Now I'm picturing THIS in the Mere of Dead Men.
The Hall of Justice is the (former) temple of Tyr (depends of the era you're playing). If I'm not wrong, it exists since 2e, as is mentioned in Volo's Guide to the North. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 06 Feb 2017 : 17:36:36
Neverwinter can definitely be considered a "Kingdom". First it's "army" compromised of the citizenry and mercenaries from Mintarn protect not only the city proper of Neverwinter but can be found aiding in reclaiming Blackdagger Keep (aka Craigmire Keep), Neverwinter Woods, Leilon, and Helms Hold. I can only assume that the people living in these areas aren't getting Neverwinters aid for free. They pay in some way, either by being forced to sign up and help fight OR by coin. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 06 Feb 2017 : 17:29:21
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
If the Neverwinter MMO is to be believed, Seldra's fake crown is being kept beneath the Hall of Justice.
The Hall of Justice?
And the Super Friends don't even know about it?
EDIT: Now I'm picturing THIS in the Mere of Dead Men. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 06 Feb 2017 : 12:54:29
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
Neverember tried to convince people that he was a relative of the Alagondar line but few believed him. He resolved not to try and lay claim to the Crown (which IS a fake).
Someone who had far more success was actually related to Aribeth De Tylmarande of Neverwinter Nights fame. This half-elf, Seldra, who was one of Neverember's spies, had the fake Crown of Neverwinter forged in Waterdeep but it was cursed by a Red Wizard to drive the wearer mad.
With a spellscar that held power over magical beasts, she nearly completed a popular coup against her boss using a male alias who was a direct descendant of King Nasher. Unfortunately for her, the ensuing madness helped cause her downfall and the plot failed.
It was all an attempt to clear her family name of Aribeth's taint. If the Neverwinter MMO is to be believed, Seldra's fake crown is being kept beneath the Hall of Justice.
This is interesting. I do not play the MMO, but I'm tempted to adapt its story to advance the timeline of my campaign. However, the Crown of Neverwinter depicted in the MMO doesn't looks like the one published in the Neverwinter Campaign Setting. The one from the book doesn't have adverse effects to the wearer (unless you're a fake claimant to the throne. In this case, the crown will destroy you in a rain of frost and fire... but not make you mad). |
| Markustay |
Posted - 06 Feb 2017 : 00:50:21
I don't want you to think I hadn't noticed this -
quote:
Originally posted by Ari
Markustay, would you mind giving me/us the gist of this locale? Even if just a link to where you've already gotten into more detail about it years ago.
In order to do it justice, I want to make sure I have that region 'up to speed'; in other words, any lore I write for it I want to make sure doesn't contradict anything in 4e and 5e as well (even though I had originally written it up for 2e/3e). I've only purchased the 4e Neverwinter Guide today, so I can now update my material for all editions... hopefully when I have some spare time. But in the interim, this is the basic gist of things -
In my 'travels' (geography research) I've come across another Waterdahvian Keep along the road north - Swordhold - located to the west of the High Road in the foothills of the Sword mountains. This was featured in LGR-17, and is about 2/3 the way north to Thornhold, which got me thinking... shouldn't such things be evenly spaced? Especially given the brilliant and somewhat anal attention to detail several of the Masked Lords are known to have had (at least, in years past)?
Thus, about a 1/3 of the way along the Sword mountains I created another keep right on the cliff-face over-looking the Sea of Swords called 'Grimsea'. Another minor reason for this placement was that older maps showed a road up to that point, but a trail beyond that point, so I felt something needed to be there to justify the change in road-types; I think all later maps (3e+) shows a road all the way to Neverwinter, so this didn't matter as much. The official name of the place is 'Seahold', and its designed to hold 60 troops normally (although it can easily house twice that in a pinch, but usually only has 40 troops present at the most).
The thing I wanted to write-up would use this new keep as a frame to do an article on how Waterdeep patrols its (actually very large) borders, including the route* troops take as the are cycled back to Waterdeep after being stationed away from the city (this duty is usually - but not always - considered a 'punishment' by those having to do it). All of this was inspired by some stuff I was working on with Eric Boyd at the time (having to do with the patrols that traveled south to Daggerford). Grimsea is never a fun place to be stationed, especially in the winter months, with ice forming on the Keep's walls, and the wind off the sea howling through the night, hence the name.
*Not-so-affectionately referred to as "the long road home" by troops having to do it. Troops are cycled-off to the next keep in groups of 20, every 30 days, so there are always fresh troops coming in, and older troops leaving. |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 06 Feb 2017 : 00:39:27
Neverember tried to convince people that he was a relative of the Alagondar line but few believed him. He resolved not to try and lay claim to the Crown (which IS a fake).
Someone who had far more success was actually related to Aribeth De Tylmarande of Neverwinter Nights fame. This half-elf, Seldra, who was one of Neverember's spies, had the fake Crown of Neverwinter forged in Waterdeep but it was cursed by a Red Wizard to drive the wearer mad.
With a spellscar that held power over magical beasts, she nearly completed a popular coup against her boss using a male alias who was a direct descendant of King Nasher. Unfortunately for her, the ensuing madness helped cause her downfall and the plot failed.
It was all an attempt to clear her family name of Aribeth's taint. If the Neverwinter MMO is to be believed, Seldra's fake crown is being kept beneath the Hall of Justice. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 20:11:32
We have to take into account that Neverwinter isn't a kingdom/does not have a king in the 5e Realms. It is Neverember dream (and the guy even "procured" evidence to prove it), but he is just currently the "Lord Protector" of the city (as of Sword Coast Adventure's Guide). The Alagondars were royalty (or styled to be one) in the post-Spellplague years, that's the years that took place before the 4e campaign started in the setting books.
There is also the fact that, in that period of time the nearby cities weren't as powerful as they were in 3.5 or as the are again in 4e/5e. In those years Luskan became a decadent place without any power outside its walls, and Waterdeep lost much of its prestige and influence after the Spellplague. The only relevant power in the Sword Coast the years before Mount Hotenow's eruption was Baldur's Gate, and that's way to long from Neverwinter to have caused a problem between the two cities.
So, we can say Neverwinter became prominent while the other cities in the region became less important. Nobody could say anything about the Alagondars styling themselves as kings and queens, because the had the power and money to back those claims. Them, Mount Hotenow awakens and good bye royal line of Alagondars... |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 19:55:12
As for neverember. He may or may not be of Nasher's line( would sure be a stick in someone's eye if he is.) bbut he may not be the king that neverwitner wants. He might just be the king Neverwinter needs |
| Markustay |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 19:49:37
The need for a 'King' may have arisen from them being a major signer of the Lord's Alliance, which DOES require some sort of regional control by its members (not the least of which is patrolling the trade-ways in your area, and keeping the outlying rural settlements safe).
So, even if a major member-state had some sort of council to govern itself, it would still need someone representing them on the greater Lord's Alliance council - someone with the authority to speak for everyone else from their settlement. You can call it whatever you want (like 'King', for instance), but in function, that position may be more along the lines of 'ambassador' in reality. Most large settlements/kingdoms have a bureaucracy to govern the day-to-day stuff anyway - only the craziest, most paranoid of tyrants would try to micro-manage everything.
It could also be something along the lines of what the U.S. president was (originally) supposed to be - almost no powers at all except in times of war (becomes 'chief' in emergencies only, when the need for a single, unconditional leader becomes paramount). So the city governs itself (through councils), and the 'king' just enforces the peace, so to speak. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 19:37:12
I don't actually play D&D and my FR musings - which run through my head daily - don't turn to the 5E Realms much if at all, so I haven't thought about the ripples. Sorry! Not denying there wouldn't be some.
-- George Krashos |
| Ari |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 18:32:27
Umberlee just doesn't seem like the kind of person to give many damns about anyone or anything, so having ANY Chosen is remarkable, but a kraken Chosen is pretty fitting and awesome.
And the throne is unrelated, but what else are you going to do with a stolen throne? Having it lying around and NOT using it looks awkward.
George and moonbeast, fair points on that. Though I wonder what their neighbours would think of what had formerly been a lordship becoming a small kingdom. Again, it feels like it just happened, as given in the books, and nobody really cared and it didn't really change anything, which is part of what baffled me when I read the Neverwinter book. When Saul became king of Israel by public demand(so far as we know) it was a radical shift in power away from the old tribal judges. Here it's like a magnificent dive without a single ripple, part of why I'm curious what other people did with it. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 16:22:43
quote:
Originally posted by Ari
Also it still amazes me to read "kraken Chosen of Umberlee". Even more than the mental image of a kraken trying their darndest to fit in a tiny human throne. Thank goodness they don't have bones(I think? Octopi and squids are fairly boneless).
Where does a throne enter into being a Chosen?
And what better creature to be a Chosen of Umberlee, than a kraken? |
| moonbeast |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 13:19:53
Quite true, George. And lest we forget…. in ancient European history, some of the larger Greeks "city-states" were ruled by kings and despots. So there is some precedence here.
A "kingdom" doesn't have to be some huge land mass. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 06:31:57
No issue with Neverwinter having a king post-Spellplague. It's an independent city state and can call its ruler whatever it wants, as many others have done through FR history. After all, no one has an issue with Citadel Adbar having a king.
-- George Krashos |
| Ari |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 03:17:42
Markustay, would you mind giving me/us the gist of this locale? Even if just a link to where you've already gotten into more detail about it years ago.
No excuse for forgetting that Neverwinter IS a regional seat, like Silverymoon or even Luskan. What keeps tripping me up is that Neverwinter doesn't hardly need or really make much use of a king. To take from Westeros, the North has a Lord/Warden/King because it's overseeing other lords and a complex of regions and mini-cultures that follow a single leader for coordinated defence and common profit.
Neverwinter is in the Sword Coast North though, and isn't jostling with much anybody for control besides Luskan The Uncannily Populous. At most there's maybe a few nearby city-states like Gauntlgrym and those weirdo Feywilde Elves in the High Forest. If Neverwinter was the center of some local official alliance against orcs or what have you, a king would make perfect sense, but as-is they don't "need" a king so it comes off as weird to me.
But assuming the Alagondars did graciously accept supreme executive power out of the goodness of their hearts, what would or did that change? It is kind of a big deal, to my eyes, so some kind of major repercussions would fit nicely. Some kind of attempted Illefarn restoration, similar to British monarchs using Arthurian stylings to lend legitimacy to their rule?
Also it still amazes me to read "kraken Chosen of Umberlee". Even more than the mental image of a kraken trying their darndest to fit in a tiny human throne. Thank goodness they don't have bones(I think? Octopi and squids are fairly boneless). |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Feb 2017 : 16:46:35
Both Neverwinter and Waterdeep patrol everything within a certain number of miles of their cities. Not entirely sure about Neverwinter's perimeter, but I know their patrols go as far south as the Mere of the Dead men, and at least as far east as the woods themselves (they interact with those few settlements right near them quite a bit). IIRC, they go as far north as Port Llast (to insure Luskan doesn't seize or raise that port).
Waterdeep patrols as far south as Daggerford itself (River Demimbyr) and as far north as Thornhold and probably halfway around the MoDM (meeting with troops coming south from Neverwinter). And they also go as far East and North as Amphail and the outskirts of Goldenfields (Goldenfields has its own troops).
I was actually thinking about writing something up about this subject because of a locale I created.
Anyhow, if a city is patrolling regions outside the city itself, you can believe that the city considers that area "under its jurisdiction". Maybe not a kingdom in name, but in function, pretty-much the same thing. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 04 Feb 2017 : 16:24:14
The Neverwinter Campaign Setting doesn't talk about such stuff, and I don't believe the Neverwinter MMO expand on that context either. But if a kingdom did existed on Neverwinter, it should have existed before the eruption of Mount Hotenow. So, maybe the Alagondars created their small kingdom in the years between 1385 and 1450 DR. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 04 Feb 2017 : 15:19:32
Bear in mind that both Waterdeep and Neverwinter are shown on the map as just huge city states, but surrounding them are numerous small villages... many of which may number 200 or less individuals. It wouldn't be absurd for Neverwinter to have a small "kingdom" made up of itself and those small villages. Now, the question of when did it become a kingdom, who are its nobles, etc... that I wouldn't be able to remotely answer. However, I know in 4e they heavily explored Neverwinter, and I know there's a game out based on Neverwinter (which I really wish I could get into, but I hated the interface). There may be more details buried in there. Remember nothing says a kingdom has to be size X or have Y number of large cities. |
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