| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 19 Nov 2016 : 20:10:29
I'm picturing a small mouse like humanoid... the size of maybe a goblin or kobold. I picture them as generally non-aggressive like halflings, but I'm also picturing them as having a general life span of say 20 years compared to a human's 70-100. As a result, their societies have never progressed much beyond tribal levels, and they are often used by more powerful races as slaves. They generally learn very fast, but have never developed a written language, and thus they adapt quickly as workers to whatever environment they are exposed to. Has there ever been a race like this developed for the realms or another D&D world (I'm betting there has), and if so what name were they given.
I'm specifically NOT picturing a rat like folk (which I plan on creating a medium sized version of them).
Along similar lines, a Meerkat/weasel like humanoid folk which would be medium in size, anyone heard of anything like this?
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 29 Nov 2018 : 15:25:51
Hmmm, another thing that might make them more interesting. I'm having the humans of the tharch that moves to Katashaka having had a couple generations first living in the Lopango Jungles just south of Maztica and having picked up some knowledge of pluma and hishna. Especially with plumacraft involving the manipulation of the small pieces of feathers together, it might make sense that creatures with extremely small hands might be very capable with this kind of work, so perhaps the humans introduced them to it, and some of them took to it quite well. With the hishna crafting, maybe they can also make their extremely small weapons much more damaging (as in always doing at least 1 pt of damage). Picturing using snake's teeth spears, etc.... also, perhaps snake skin armor, etc...
Secondarily, I'm thinking that the secrets of elven leafweave armor may be an alchemical secret that might be "hacked" and thus these beings might wear leafweave armor. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 28 Nov 2018 : 16:31:45
btw, other than insect swarm, is there any spell which might command a swarm of bees. Just thinking it might be interesting if they can coerce pollination of flowers by summoning bees. Not commanding them mind you. It might be interesting though if these fellows kind of treat bees like we might a friendly dog. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 28 Nov 2018 : 11:59:27
Yeah, been thinking more and more on that size... wow, I really can't picture a Barbie doll sized creature riding the things I'm picturing. I'm going to have to go even smaller. Instead of 9 to 15 inches, more like 4 to 6 inches.... so yeah, star wars figurine size. Guess I'll have to write them up more of as a swarm, but with some who actually learn something like a thief's sneak attack bonus for hitting critical body parts. I'm picturing them unable to learn wizardry due to the time required, but maybe they can become bards, druids, clerics, paladins, rangers, and even sorcerers and warlocks (maybe serving a fey patron?) etc.. Unlike that pictured in mouseguard, maybe they have to use two handed weapons just to get them heavy enough to do any damage against creatures larger than themselves? Thinking pole weapons would be particular favorites, but mainly simple spears with sharpened points burned in a fire, or maybe rock weapons. Maybe since they are so small, like an ant maybe they can lift things much larger than they would for their size, so maybe the weapons they wield are oversized equivalents like what we see in a lot of Japanime, etc... For instance, maybe they have a Warhammer made from a rock, and the rock is the equivalent size of their whole chest.
Other than animal friendship and speak with animals, are there any other magical abilities which might seem to make sense for these small mice to have? I'm kind of thinking having them have the druidcraft cantrip might be interesting. Its ability to predict weather for 24 hours could prove useful for them being prepared. Since my main use of them is as farmers helping the humans the ability to "instantly make a flower blossom, a seed pod open, or a leaf bud bloom" would be great for them putting out seeds and instantly get them germinating, and then get them flowering sooner. Also the ability to "create an instantaneous, harmless sensory effect, such as falling leaves, a puff of wind, the sound of a small animal, or the faint odor of skunk" might be useful for scaring away threatening beasts OR for hiding their own scent, etc... Also, the ability to "instantly light or snuff out a candle, a torch, or a small campfire" for a creature of their size might be a way to give them a means of defending themselves by setting a section of field ablaze and then snuffing it. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 26 Nov 2018 : 17:05:36
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
there is also the ratfolk of pathfinder
https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Ratfolk
Yeah, I'm having ratfolk (nezumi is the name from the 3e oriental adventures), but that's medium sized creatures and simply another redressed character. These creatures are DECIDEDLY small (i.e. you can hold one in your palm and they make some fairies seem big). I'm basically picturing the outlying farmland of one of my tharchs in Katashaka literally littered with these things like 1000 per human. I'm picturing them using a dog to pull a wagon filled with let's say kiwi in a pumpkin shell, and they pull up next to a cheap wagon that humans have made of rope, leather, and bones. The human picks up the pumpkin shell, dumps it into the human wagon, and puts it back on the makeshift mouse wagon. He then picks up the next mouse wagon's pumpkin shell. Thus the "giant" human is simply standing by his wagon while all these mice are doing what would be the majority of the work for the humans, but since the humans provide them protection from other creatures that would see them as a meal, they love the arrangement.
Over in another field a human is mounting whole pumpkins or gourds onto similar wagon frames, and the mouse folk are bringing them somewhere to clean them out to feed or house themselves.
Basically, I can't recall anywhere where we've seen something like this on a broad scale. You might see small creatures, but even those are the size of small humans and they can kind of defend themselves against medium or even large predators. But these mice people would be about the size of say a Barbie Doll. So, not the size of star wars/GI Joe figures... so they would still be big enough to somewhat interact with the larger world. This is bigger than what we see in mouseguard mind you. I think I just hit on a good size to present for comparison, and this might help me picture what they COULD ride. If they ride rabbits <or al-miraj> for instance, they need to be BIG rabbits (and by big, I mean about maybe 2 feet long and a foot high). For an in-game comparison, they'd probably be about the size of a little girl's dolly. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Nov 2018 : 22:00:35
quote:
Originally posted by Bonneville Mote
reminds me of two things.. the Killmoulis from Fiend Folio, but more these folks from the cartoon The Littles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HAn4fByVb8
Ye gods -- I loved that cartoon, back in the day! |
| Bonneville Mote |
Posted - 22 Nov 2018 : 14:34:45
reminds me of two things.. the Killmoulis from Fiend Folio, but more these folks from the cartoon The Littles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HAn4fByVb8 |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Nov 2018 : 21:11:43
oh... well, as long as I'm coming back to names... instead of mouslings or muislings… miceling? Another could be Gerbling (it actually sounds great), until you say it aloud and realize it sounds like the weird stories we've all heard of someone going into the ER with a gerbil in the hind end. But gerbils are also known as Jirds (Jirdlings?) and a higher term for this type of rodent is Meriones (Merionoids?) and Muridae (Mueridanes?.... hmmm, kind of liking that too... I may stick with it).
Oh, and I don't know why I can't shake thinking about this... but I've now got a picture of these little critters aboard various mounts for game purposes AND heraldic purposes. These came to mind as unusual images
noble fantastical versions (note some of the below are tiny themselves, but I'm going with the tiny can work on tiny if its tiny enough rule... or more succinctly a 1 foot creature can ride a creature that may be 2 foot).
Mueridane mounted on a al-miraj (unicorn horned rabbit) with lance and horn leveled and al-miraj's ears flapping straight back in a charge... picturing these as the al-miraj with the old abilities to basically dimension door short distances.
Mueridane mounted on a tressym (winged cat) with lance aimed downwards and cats paws grappling a snake (lance point entering snake's mouth)... yeah, technically tressym are also tiny, but I'm thinking there may be some winged cats that are bigger, but not leopard/cheetah/lion sized (like a bob cat, fishing cat, ocelot (aka dwarf leopard), caracal, african golden cat, Pampas cat)
Mueridane mounted on a couatl (multiple saddles, since a couatle is size medium... maybe three separate Mueridane all with bows)
Mueridane mounted on a cockatrice with red/yellow/orange/black plumage (note even though many of us think of cockatrice as evil, they are just unaligned)- also, perhaps the Mueridane petrify their fellow mice on purpose so that they don't bleed out, etc... and can be brought somewhere else to be healed safely.
Mueridane mounted on a faerie dragon or pseudodragon.
evil fantastical versions
Mueridane mounted on a flying snake or stirge
Mueridane mounted on a small rather than tiny version of velociraptor
other mundane versions
Mueridane mounted on a dachschund, rabbit, raccoon, porcupine, jackal, small fox, honey badger, mongoose, box turtle or a snapping turtle with leather barding on the animal
just discovered pangolins or "armored anteaters" that can also curl into a ball like a rolly polly… that's interesting.
also the various birds mentioned in previous posts like parrots, smaller cranes, birds of prey, peacocks/turkeys, etc...
Also, more fantastical, but not "special" creatures might be giant centipedes, giant fire beetles, and giant rats
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| Hoondatha |
Posted - 17 Nov 2018 : 18:27:27
Since this thread has come around again, just a quick note that in Dutch (of which Afrikaans is a dialect), "ui" is pronounced "ow." So "muis" is pronounced the same was as the English "mouse." It's just spelled differently.
Of course, you can always change pronunciation based on how it looks, if you like. English is notorious for that. :) |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 17 Nov 2018 : 13:08:46
OMG... and now I have a picture of muislings mounted on Tressyms, miniature griffins, and faerie dragons in my head. The cute is tearing my heart up.... I want to see these little things for real.... |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 17 Nov 2018 : 11:24:27
Yeah, I was so focused on the name idea, I didn't see the other race. I'm thinking with what I'm talking about doing, there's the savannah and then there's the jungle. Kercpa living in the jungle and visiting the savannah makes sense (and it would make the jungle a little less "Africanized"). Muislings living in the savannah wilds and amongst the humans (now), with the muisling populations exploding once they have human protection. There would still also be wild muislings who just don't trust the humans (turns out with good reason), but the domesticated ones just don't want to hear it, and the wild ones would be sparsely populated in the wild and the domesticated ones would outnumber them enormously.
One big picture difference I'm seeing between my muislings and the kercpa is that I can see muislings fitting on even your slightly bigger than average bird (say a parrot, etc..), but at a foot and a half tall, I can't say the same for Kercpa. So, in these human communities, I can see there actually being something like a postal service using bird mounted muislings. There may even be muisling scribes who write in REALLY small lettering (to us), but the colonists typically have magnifying lenses just for the purposes of reading this small lettering.
Oh, and just because I saw it and thought "yes what a great idea".... turtle shell wagons and roofs. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Nov 2018 : 15:14:21
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Oh,and Wooly, I'd never read your response before.
Must have been tricky responding to it on 25 Nov 2016, then, or coming up with a name based on my suggestion. 
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
While I want the muislings, since the kercpa are out there, and they fit perfectly, I'm thinking 2 separate races works perfectly. Kercpa apparently live longer than these muislings I'm picturing (what I'm looking up says they live 60 years), so the muislings might look upon them amongst their communities as "ancient ones" like humans might view elves. Maybe even the kercpa don't trust the humans but come into the human villages to trade with the muislings.
I like this idea.  |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 16 Nov 2018 : 13:43:05
Oh,and Wooly, I'd never read your response before. While I want the muislings, since the kercpa are out there, and they fit perfectly, I'm thinking 2 separate races works perfectly. Kercpa apparently live longer than these muislings I'm picturing (what I'm looking up says they live 60 years), so the muislings might look upon them amongst their communities as "ancient ones" like humans might view elves. Maybe even the kercpa don't trust the humans but come into the human villages to trade with the muislings. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 16 Nov 2018 : 13:34:16
So, I've been thinking more and more about this topic recently (and I'm reading the mouseguard series as well), and I just started thinking to myself.... it really would make something different to have the muislings being size tiny instead of size small. Basically, I've been picturing a plentiful and intelligent race that's downtrodden until these Faerunian humans show up and basically protect them from all the other local races that have been eating them. The humans are essentially giants to them (granted no more giant than a gnoll or cat folk who regularly hunt them) and they can help them easily perform tasks that would be difficult for the muislings. Also, these humans are familiar with metal working, which these Katashakan muislings are not at all (they are simple farmers using things like gourds, feathers, wood, bone, stone, leather, etc....), so the humans can build reusable contrivances that the muislings might find immensely useful.
Basically, I'm picturing these muislings to be between 9 to 15 inches tall on average (with their children being about 4 to 6 inches tall). They would very much look like field mice but bigger, with three fingered paws that work like hands. Some may be striped like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-striped_grass_mouse . Some may even be more squirrel like the African ground squirrel. If they only live 20 years or so, then for them, the last century has been 20 generations or so, and thus similar to us thinking back to a little before the revolutionary war in America. They may have totally adapted their society to having humans around that don't immediately want to eat them.
Their tools would be little more than sticks and stones tied together with tendons/animal hair, etc... I'm picturing them proudly wearing the equivalent of surcoats given to them by the humans and maybe simple paper mache hats. In fact, paper mache may be a large part of their buildings for internal walls, etc.. Their homes might consist of gourds, paper mache, and the small castoff pieces of lumber that the humans can't find a use for from building their own structures (and might typically burn).
Oh, and I may give these muislings the natural ability to cast speak with animals 3/day and possibly a version of animal friendship that ONLY works on mammals of size small or smaller 1/day.
So, why am I bringing this all up? I'd like to throw out there a what if scenario and see what people come back with. So, what if a human made a reusable metal "wagon base" let's say... what kind of reusable things might these mice be able to easily put on such a base with a humans help. For instance, I can literally see a pumpkin that's hollowed out or cut in half, or a gourd. They may
In these scenarios, what kind of creatures from like an African plain could you see that might pull such a wagon or act as a mount or help them work/plow their fields. I can definitely see rabbits similar to the African hare. I can see actual squirrel teams pulling wagons. Others that come to mind are tortoises, aardvarks, small foxes, larger breeds of parrots & cockatoos, hawks/falcons, vultures, peacocks, storks, pelicans, African crowned cranes, kori bustard, iguanas, honey badgers, etc... as others. Anything jump out at someone that I'm not thinking about?
So, with what I'm mentioning does it bring any other pictures to your head as well? Any things that would basically change their culture heavily because they have these humans protecting them (mind you, the humans protect them in order to make them work the field and perform intricate detail and dangerous work that they can't or won't do). I'm picturing the humans able to perform the heavy lifting irrigation work they'd need help with and the muislings through sheer numbers performing the mundane, repetitive, seed planting, fertilizer spreading, weeding, etc... I'm picturing the muislings hollowing out a pumpkins (not necessarily the orange variety here, but more greenish varieties) and using half of it to be a wagon that they preserve to last a few months with preservation. They may also have more traditional small wagons of scrap wood.
http://www.africanepicure.com/about-african-food/vegetables/pumpkin-and-squash/
http://fortuneofafrica.com/ug/pumpkin-growing-in-uganda/
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| Markustay |
Posted - 09 Dec 2016 : 16:55:07
Katashaka is more the same latitude as Zakhara, still some 800 miles south of Halruaa. However, the equator is about halfway, and both fall out within the 'tropics'. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Dec 2016 : 13:56:43
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
beguilers (Shining South) are mouse-like, possibly a humanoid version of them created by Halruaans
Thank you. Halruaa and Katashaka are roughly around the same latitude (longitude maybe, I forget). I could see beguilers in this area as well, and if some of them were experimented on by some group along with other rodents to make humanoids... yeah, so we could also also have another subrace besides the miraji, craniar, and meerkatians that have some illusion abilities... wouldn't want to call them beguilers. They may even piss off the red wizard illusionists. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 08 Dec 2016 : 02:32:42
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
Neat ideas! I first thought of jermlaine but that's pretty clearly not what you're going for.
Your thoughts on campestri in Katashaka? Plant/fungi-like humanoids would seem to be compatible with animal-like humanoids, and it would give them a place in the Realms, while explaining their near-complete absence from Faerun. Just an idea.
That's interesting, because I was thinking about myconids and campestri being in the jungles of Katashaka.... then I saw vegepygmy's in Volo's guide to monsters and see them as a perfect fit. I was also looking into thorny/vine like plant folk as well. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 05 Dec 2016 : 04:30:54
Ah, there it is! Thanks.
And they can all live in 'Meercat Manner'. 
I found the Muisling bard. |
| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 04 Dec 2016 : 20:48:49
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm not finding them in either of the 2e or 3e SS books
They were sadly omitted from the table of contents, but they're on page 60 of the 3e Shining South, ahead of the Halruaan behir. |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 03 Dec 2016 : 18:51:29
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
beguilers (Shining South) are mouse-like, possibly a humanoid version of them created by Halruaans
I'm not finding them in either of the 2e or 3e SS books. 
All I can find is the class of the same name.
Their 2nd Ed stats are in MC11, the second FR Monstrous Compendium appendix.
Jeff |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Dec 2016 : 17:44:44
Jermlaine could be a feral (and evil) 'offshoot' of a Muisling race.
I would connect a race like this to the Fey, but thats just me.
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
beguilers (Shining South) are mouse-like, possibly a humanoid version of them created by Halruaans
I'm not finding them in either of the 2e or 3e SS books.
All I can find is the class of the same name.
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| Quale |
Posted - 03 Dec 2016 : 07:45:06
beguilers (Shining South) are mouse-like, possibly a humanoid version of them created by Halruaans |
| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 03 Dec 2016 : 02:44:44
Neat ideas! I first thought of jermlaine but that's pretty clearly not what you're going for.
Your thoughts on campestri in Katashaka? Plant/fungi-like humanoids would seem to be compatible with animal-like humanoids, and it would give them a place in the Realms, while explaining their near-complete absence from Faerun. Just an idea. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 30 Nov 2016 : 00:32:03
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
What if the muislings sometimes ride the more feral giant rats?
Sort of how the rabbits of Watership Down rode the more primitive Hares.
You kind of read my mind. They can't ride giant rats, because they're also small. However, I was picturing them riding giant weasels and badgers. Below are the notes I was making for them
By the way, the general concept I was going for with this is in Northwestern Katashaka. Have red wizards running the "Tharch of the Western Pridelands of Katashaka". The area is filled with various humanoid and Tauric Catfolk, gnolls, a gray fox like humanoid race, the Noceri (Rhino humanoids), the Nezumi (rat folk), a stork folk, bullywugs, crocodilians (Khumat), and a few other races. The cat races prey on the muislings, the red wizards have enslaved them. The Noceri used to enslave them and use them to harvest crops (since they are vegetarians)... but the red wizards have hired the Noceri to help be muscle on their own plantations overseeing the muislings.... and the red wizards raise giant rats to trade the meat with the cat folk and gnolls (and they secretly sell elderly muislings in the same manner).
Muislings – small humanoids. They ride gazelles, zebras, giant weasels and giant badgers. They are master craftsmen with wood. Their short lifespans (they mature around 6 and live for about 25 years) make them also a race with limited technology, and they speak of the times before the red wizards as ancient times, as they were at least 10 generations of muislings ago. These creatures are a mixture of several breeds of rodent folk including al-miraj (
the Miraji, with long ears and who have a small spiral horn, can teleport short distances, have some minor healing ability....
The Craniar, who are mouse-like and are descendants of muislings who were psionically blasted like Cranium rats by illithids, thus they have limited telepathy with other Muislings within 120 feet, and some psionic abilities such as mage hand, message, mending, friends, unseen servant 1/day, detect thoughts 1/day....
the Meerkatians who have limited earth control such as mold earth, sand tools, sand blade, earth tremor 1/day....
and finally the standard Muislings who are masters of skills) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Nov 2016 : 23:03:06
What if the muislings sometimes ride the more feral giant rats?
Sort of how the rabbits of Watership Down rode the more primitive Hares. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 28 Nov 2016 : 22:51:30
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
Muislings has a nice look to it.
I'm envisioning the mice from the RPG Mouse Gard.
Mouseguard novels are exactly what got me thinking on it. I'm thinking though of some interesting sub-races. For instance, we already know that illithids have performed psionic experiments and created cranium rats. What if they decided to try similar experimentation on these Muislings. Similarly, Meerkats are somewhat mouse/weasel like and are known for living in underground tunnels.... what if they have some magical earth control, etc... |
| moonbeast |
Posted - 27 Nov 2016 : 00:03:27
Muislings has a nice look to it.
I'm envisioning the mice from the RPG Mouse Gard. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 25 Nov 2016 : 02:30:48
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
yeah, I definitely want to stay away from Warhammer names (think that's where the Skaven are from). For Rats, we at least have Nezumi from the Oriental Adventures handbook that I can work from. Mouslings, I've seen in story books for kids, with a mouse that's dressed in clothes essentially, and that's exactly what I'm looking for... but I know mousling is the name used in that kid's book series... so I was hoping there was a specific similar thing for D&D. Guessing not.
They're not FR, but there are intelligent, tool-using squirrels in D&D -- the kercpa. They're essentially overly large squirrels (about 1.5 feet tall) and prefer to dress the same as elves.
So the precedent is there, in D&D, for not smaller than human intelligent rodents.
I'd start with the Latin name for mice and tweak that somewhat for a name for the race.
Hmmm, decent idea... Latin for mouse is Musculus... Afrikaans word for mouse if Muis... Swahili is panya... somali is jiir... Irish is Luch... Norwegian is Mus... Zulu is Impuku
I like the ling at the end..... so...
Muisling or Impukuling??? Which do you guys like best? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Nov 2016 : 15:38:54
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
yeah, I definitely want to stay away from Warhammer names (think that's where the Skaven are from). For Rats, we at least have Nezumi from the Oriental Adventures handbook that I can work from. Mouslings, I've seen in story books for kids, with a mouse that's dressed in clothes essentially, and that's exactly what I'm looking for... but I know mousling is the name used in that kid's book series... so I was hoping there was a specific similar thing for D&D. Guessing not.
They're not FR, but there are intelligent, tool-using squirrels in D&D -- the kercpa. They're essentially overly large squirrels (about 1.5 feet tall) and prefer to dress the same as elves.
So the precedent is there, in D&D, for not smaller than human intelligent rodents.
I'd start with the Latin name for mice and tweak that somewhat for a name for the race. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 22 Nov 2016 : 14:07:55
yeah, I definitely want to stay away from Warhammer names (think that's where the Skaven are from). For Rats, we at least have Nezumi from the Oriental Adventures handbook that I can work from. Mouslings, I've seen in story books for kids, with a mouse that's dressed in clothes essentially, and that's exactly what I'm looking for... but I know mousling is the name used in that kid's book series... so I was hoping there was a specific similar thing for D&D. Guessing not. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 04:40:30
quote:
Originally posted by EltonRobb
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I picture something between a rodent and a human, like a 'borrower'. Tiny, with mouse-like features (maybe even a tail), but much more human-seeming than mouse.
Hmmmm... I thought 'Borrowers' were mouse-like, but when I went looking for a pic, they're really not (although I like to use their culture for something akin to what you are talking about).
Maybe something like THIS.
I could have sworn there was a creature in D&D - maybe I'm thinking of the Koul-something? Can't recall the whole name.
Skavin?
Skaven aren't tiny or from D&D. |
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