| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Elren_Wolfsbane |
Posted - 24 Sep 2016 : 04:34:38
I am currently trying to learn tel'quessir for my campaign (and well for fun). I'm having trouble with the exact pronunciation. I haven't found anything precise, only things similar (sindarin). I'm just not sure if I should be comparing sindarin with tel'quessir
I have found several websites detailing tel'quessir pronunciation, but nothing like actually hearing it. if anyone has ANYTHING to help me. please feel free to Private message me or reply. thanks
:D
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| 24 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Elren_Wolfsbane |
Posted - 28 Dec 2016 : 03:14:18
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The Old Grey Box described Espruar as the alphabet for writing silver elvish. Often used by gold elves. Not always used by gold elves. Implying that gold elves have their own alphabet and script, thus Espruar is only one elvish and not all elvish.
Tolkien was a writer, poet, and a university professor of philology (the study of written language and linguistics). He constructed several languages for his fantasy writings, and provided extensively detailed alphabets, vocabularies, and grammars for each - along with pronunciation guides for English speakers/readers.
But I don't know why all this concern about elven language and pronunciation. I mean - aside from knowing how to insult, curse, and swear at them - why would anyone ever want to talk to an elf?
Why does some e learn Klingon!! Because they love the show, the lore, the language. That is one reason I'm learning Elvish. I love D&D and think it's interesting to earn/ speak this language. Yes, I am using it for my campaign. I'm also learning it for the fun of it |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 28 Dec 2016 : 02:13:49
The Old Grey Box described Espruar as the alphabet for writing silver elvish. Often used by gold elves. Not always used by gold elves. Implying that gold elves have their own alphabet and script, thus Espruar is only one elvish and not all elvish.
Tolkien was a writer, poet, and a university professor of philology (the study of written language and linguistics). He constructed several languages for his fantasy writings, and provided extensively detailed alphabets, vocabularies, and grammars for each - along with pronunciation guides for English speakers/readers.
But I don't know why all this concern about elven language and pronunciation. I mean - aside from knowing how to insult, curse, and swear at them - why would anyone ever want to talk to an elf? |
| Elren_Wolfsbane |
Posted - 27 Dec 2016 : 22:49:37
I was only using Tel'Quessir as a reference to which dialect of Elvish I'm trying to learn. Not to get confused with other dialects of Elvish such as; Sindarin (Tolkien) , Ssamath (drow), Darnassian, Nazja, and Thalassian (from WoW), etc. ..
Espruar is the written form of Elvish, yes. And it would just be called elvish.
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| TBeholder |
Posted - 27 Dec 2016 : 21:58:26
quote:
Originally posted by Elren_Wolfsbane
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Is "tel'quessir" used as a term for language anywhere in the canon lore? I'd be very surprised.
Yes, I believe it is the main Elvish Language in the realm. You can find some stuff on it at:
Dragon Magazine #279
and
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/diction_elf.htm
(and many other references as well)
I don't know how to put it delicately... so, to put it bluntly, "I believe X is Y, and there's something about it in Z" does not equal "X was specifically said to be Y in the source Z".
AFAIK, the only name proper given was "Espruar" - alphabet / written language of the Moon Elves used as written "Elven Common". Also it's occasionally mentioned that there used to be several older languages used by the Elves of different origins, but that's all.
Where the spoken language was called anything more specific than just "Elven"/"Elvish"? |
| Elren_Wolfsbane |
Posted - 23 Dec 2016 : 15:22:51
I would say they structured it like Tolkien's Sindarin . It is a different dialect of Elvish, but the grammatical and sentence structure is very close
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| Starshade |
Posted - 23 Dec 2016 : 14:32:59
Do "FR Elvish" have a grammatical structure at all, or is it more or less loose words, with gobedygok grammar?
The Kiira - Tel'kiira, indicates some Authors have looked on interesting Languages, Celtic or Swahili got prefixes, but making a working grammar now, if noone have bothered... Would be like Star Trek, with klingon - klingonase (the first klingon was nonsense, too. But they made the Language, and pretended the gobedygok was a "dialect") |
| Elren_Wolfsbane |
Posted - 23 Dec 2016 : 07:53:39
I enjoy learning a new language like Tel'Quessir (fr elvish). It's challenging, but I'm still working at it |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 23 Dec 2016 : 03:22:02
I always thought it would be fun to create a language. I love linguistics. I haven't really studied the FR languages much. I know Tolkien put great thought into his languages, particularly Elvish. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 23 Dec 2016 : 01:59:13
I've been dabbling in a few FR languages of late - in terms of word, plurals and some basic verb structure - and have taken pains to create "rules" so the inconsistencies you mention above don't occur. Where I have encountered difficulties is where the canon FR sources (including Ed) throw up words and terms, which can be tough to reconcile. Elvish in the FR firmament is by the far the worst in this regard.
In saying that I am aware that Ed did create an "FR elvish" but it was never adopted by TSR/WotC. That ship has well and truly sailed now.
-- George Krashos |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 22 Dec 2016 : 23:17:50
quote:
Originally posted by Elren_Wolfsbane
Working pretty hard at Learning Tel' Quessir.
I'm curious, Has anyone else tried to learn a language like this. like sindarin, Valyrian, Klingon, etc...
Most constructed languages (ConLangs) are either really impressive in terms of scholarship (examples include Sindarin, Quenya, Klingon, Dothraki and Verdurian) or utter crap (most things in D&D).
Years ago, I got all fascinated with the 'drow language' but the more I looked at the resources out there (Grey Company, etc), the more I discovered that 'drow' was either a code or just plain gobbledygook. There was (oh it's still there) a drow dictionary where anyone could make up an entry, which is why there is a drow 'word' for 'television' but not for 'cup'. (See for yourself: http://www.grey-company.org/Maerdyn/resources/translator/)
Which one do you think a drow is most likely to use a cup or a television?
If you look at the alphabets in the recent 5th Edn books (and I really like 5th Edn by the way), you'll see they all have the same letters, but why would Dwarves have 'Q', 'c' or 'X'? Why not "kw" for 'Q', "K" or "s" for 'c', and "ks" for 'x'?
If you want a language that sounds nicely Elvish, either try Finish (Tolkien's inspiration for Quenya) or Welsh (Sindarin). A simple dictionary would give you enough subject matter for flavour.
The problem with the Elvish language in FR is that it is not clear what sounds the letters represent. For example, 'Kiir' is 'Gem’ but is that two syllables 'Key ear' a long i such as in Dutch and Finnish "keir" or "k-ear" or tonal, does the vowel sound rise, fall, drop suddenly, etc?
Then we have Kiira - 'gems', so this tells us that adding an 'a' makes the plural, but when we look around we see that "Tel'Kiira" = ‘Lore Gem’ (and don't get me started on that sodding apostrophe it serves no function whatsoever, it's there to look foreign that's all), "El'Tael" = ‘Bladesingers’ (not El Taela), and "N'Vaelahr" = ‘Shadow Soldiers'.
It's all been made up, with the emphasis being on what looks 'elven', not on what an elf might actually speak.
(Odd aside, apparently "Creyala" = ‘Poker (Card Game)’ and "Filliken" = ‘Open Skirt’ (Prostitute)')
So, save yourself years of frustration and don't bother with made up languages unless you know that real thought has gone into them. Sindarin and Quenya are decent bases for Elvish, there's no reason why you can't use them for Elvish flavour. :)
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| nicodoggie |
Posted - 25 Nov 2016 : 08:48:42
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I dislike conlangs. Languages grow and evolve naturally, over time, and pick up bits and pieces here and there from other languages. That's why the English language is so weird and has exceptions to pretty much every single rule, as well as oddness like geese but not meese, or the fact that Jack is a nickname for Jonathan...
When you build a language from scratch, it doesn't have that natural, organic development.
Just like Tolkien, a lot of naturalistic conlangers actually go through the effort of addressing this issue by doing a lot of world-building. The Akana project (http://akana.conlang.org/wiki/Main_Page) is one of the most well known. I am kind of surprised that there isn't more overlap between the conlanging community and the tabletop one.
More relevant to the topic, I have one attempt at a Tel'Quessir grammar, but nothing about sounds: http://www.grey-company.org/Circle/language/grammar.htm
You could use Quenya or Sindarin as guides though, maybe:
http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/quenya.htm#Heading6
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Sindarin#Phonology |
| Elren_Wolfsbane |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 12:52:56
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
quote:
Originally posted by Elren_Wolfsbane
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Is "tel'quessir" used as a term for language anywhere in the canon lore? I'd be very surprised.
Yes, I believe it is the main Elvish Language in the realm. You can find some stuff on it at:
Dragon Magazine #279
and
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/diction_elf.htm
(and many other references as well)
This was the one I was going to suggest. Races of the Wild also has a bit on Elvish, though again, no pronunciation.
Races of the wild.. ohh, I have to find that. Thanks |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 15 Nov 2016 : 23:36:29
quote:
Originally posted by Elren_Wolfsbane
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Is "tel'quessir" used as a term for language anywhere in the canon lore? I'd be very surprised.
Yes, I believe it is the main Elvish Language in the realm. You can find some stuff on it at:
Dragon Magazine #279
and
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/diction_elf.htm
(and many other references as well)
This was the one I was going to suggest. Races of the Wild also has a bit on Elvish, though again, no pronunciation. |
| Elren_Wolfsbane |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 20:39:34
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Is "tel'quessir" used as a term for language anywhere in the canon lore? I'd be very surprised.
Yes, I believe it is the main Elvish Language in the realm. You can find some stuff on it at:
Dragon Magazine #279
and
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/diction_elf.htm
(and many other references as well) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Nov 2016 : 15:41:17
quote:
Originally posted by Elren_Wolfsbane
Working pretty hard at Learning Tel' Quessir.
I'm curious, Has anyone else tried to learn a language like this. like sindarin, Valyrian, Klingon, etc...
I dislike conlangs. Languages grow and evolve naturally, over time, and pick up bits and pieces here and there from other languages. That's why the English language is so weird and has exceptions to pretty much every single rule, as well as oddness like geese but not meese, or the fact that Jack is a nickname for Jonathan...
When you build a language from scratch, it doesn't have that natural, organic development.
So to me, conlangs are about the same as pig Latin.
Related note: Middle-Earth was created to have a history for the languages Tolkien was creating. He was all about the language; the stories came from his realization that language needs history. |
| Wrigley |
Posted - 12 Nov 2016 : 11:52:59
I am afraid Mr Greenwood didn't made full language for elves. However Mr Tolkien did and you can find it even online. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 12 Nov 2016 : 10:54:48
Is "tel'quessir" used as a term for language anywhere in the canon lore? I'd be very surprised. |
| BenN |
Posted - 12 Nov 2016 : 07:29:07
quote:
Originally posted by Elren_Wolfsbane
hmm. can't seem to download it. wonder if there is just a audio file I can get??
I've found the relevant audio files in the mod (44 in all, in .ogg format); if you let me know your e-mail address (via private message?), I'll send them to you.  |
| Elren_Wolfsbane |
Posted - 11 Nov 2016 : 21:18:56
Working pretty hard at Learning Tel' Quessir.
I'm curious, Has anyone else tried to learn a language like this. like sindarin, Valyrian, Klingon, etc... |
| Elren_Wolfsbane |
Posted - 08 Oct 2016 : 19:22:11
I found a section in The Swordcoast Adventurers Guide about how to write Elvish. Its informative |
| Elren_Wolfsbane |
Posted - 24 Sep 2016 : 14:20:04
hmm. can't seem to download it. wonder if there is just a audio file I can get?? |
| Elren_Wolfsbane |
Posted - 24 Sep 2016 : 14:10:03
quote:
Originally posted by BenN
I was really impressed with the creator of a BG2 mod (Kivan and Deheriana, URL below); she did the voice for one of the mod's characters, all in elvish. The accent & intonation sounds kinda Italian to me; as spoken elvish is supposed to be 'musical', that sounds about right.
http://www.gibberlings3.net/kivan/
Thank you I will look at that url right now |
| BenN |
Posted - 24 Sep 2016 : 11:15:45
I was really impressed with the creator of a BG2 mod (Kivan and Deheriana, URL below); she did the voice for one of the mod's characters, all in elvish. The accent & intonation sounds kinda Italian to me; as spoken elvish is supposed to be 'musical', that sounds about right.
http://www.gibberlings3.net/kivan/ |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 24 Sep 2016 : 07:09:31
There is an Elvish dictionary here, but nothing on pronunciation. |
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