| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| LWhitehead1 |
Posted - 14 Aug 2016 : 05:02:45
I need to know in 5th D&D and since FR is the official standard setting, how has Nertheril Empire and Kanras changed?.
Since most Wizards behave like Sith Lords hoarding Power and building great Tombs,
LW |
| 28 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 16 Nov 2016 : 20:18:56
There are at least two. One I stopped using because when it switched over to 4e, most of the info became useless to me. The other I avoid unless really desperate, because my computer slows to a crawl when I go there (WAY too many ads - I have to actually shut-down any resource-hogging programs I have going, otherwise my system could lock-up).
There may be others. In fact, the second one I described above may just be different ones that do the same wretched thing to my machine. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Nov 2016 : 19:49:41
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade
Aah, my bad.. >.<
(why does material on the net cite Wooly's spider man based idea as 'canon', as FR wiki?..)
I am quite unaware of, and unable to find anything, referencing my idea or implying that it's canon. Where did you find this reference?
FR Wiki
I looked there, unless you're referring to an FR Wiki I'm not familiar with. |
| Starshade |
Posted - 16 Nov 2016 : 17:21:51
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade
Aah, my bad.. >.<
(why does material on the net cite Wooly's spider man based idea as 'canon', as FR wiki?..)
I am quite unaware of, and unable to find anything, referencing my idea or implying that it's canon. Where did you find this reference?
FR Wiki |
| Markustay |
Posted - 14 Nov 2016 : 01:23:06
Ah, gotcha Wooly. I somehow missed that entire post. 
There is another tomb by a Netherese mage - I'll try to find it. Thats why I worded my last post the way I did - "and there's very little lore stating they did such things". Originally I had typed 'no lore', but then I recalled something. Some tomb pre-built in The North by a Netherese mage, not inside Netheril (which struck me odd at the time). So there is some lore that Netherese mages did indeed pre-build their tombs.
EDIT: Nevermind - it is in The North (haven't gone looking for it yet), but I now recall more details - it was a Calishite Mage, who for some bizarre reason, built his tomb way up in the north... maybe... now I'm starting to remember a magic carpet being involved. I hate getting old...
I may actually be confusing two completely unrelated 'dead mages'. 
EDIT2: And for some reason, this subject is being talked about in another thread, and I didn't even relate the two. The one about the Barrowfields in Mistledale. So whether I find the reference I am thinking of or not, the Netherese DID build tombs/graves 'far afield' from what is usually considered their 'stomping ground' (I have a hard time calling Netheril a 'country', in as much that I think of it more like a geographic location - like 'Ancient Greece' - that just contained many separate 'Citystates', some of which were at war, some allied, and most just unconcerned with the rest. Its hard to envision that within the context of our modern concept of 'nation'). |
| LWhitehead1 |
Posted - 14 Nov 2016 : 00:50:10
Well I hope one day to make this idea official,
LW |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 23:23:26
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Spiderman-based idea? 
Now I am truly lost. 
It's a few posts up.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I lifted the idea in part from Spider-Man comics -- Spider-Man's spider-sense doesn't work against Venom because the symbiote was formerly bonded to Spider-Man. So I decided that the Karsestone, as part of a former (if only momentarily) deity of magic, could act as a cloak and allow another deity to enter Mystra's divine realm undetected.
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| Markustay |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 22:09:20
Spiderman-based idea?
Now I am truly lost.
The closest thing to a 'tomb' I can find is the one I mentioned above, which was more of a 'storage place' for his clone and 'learning center' for some of his knowledge (so nothing you could 'take with you', but you could learn some magic there, I suppose). You could (if your DM allows) say that your character found a book in such a place, or that you are looking for that place (having heard about the spell-battle that took place there involving Elminster), in hopes of finding such a book. As I said, whatever little there is about the place is in Temptation of Elminster.
The only other place that 'might' come close to a 'final resting place' is where Karsus' body fell (at least one piece of it - I believe there were three total, IIRC), and that would be in the Dire Wood inside the High Forest, but good luck with that. If your game is 3e+, some Shade Uber-Mage used that fragment to empower a spell that brought the Netherese back to Faerūn. I believe at least one of the powerful liches (who both happen to have the same name and VERY similar back-stories  ) is still there, so you could try asking him...
I think your best bet would be to find, instead, some 'hidden lab' that Karsus kept, either out-of-the-way somewhere (like his 'clone closet'), OR... and even better... the site where Karse itself crashed to the ground. I don't know if that's specifically mentioned anywhere in canon, but given its altitude and nature of destruction, pieces of it could be anywhere (within reason). A 'secret cave' somewhere in the northern boundaries of The Stonelands, perhaps? A piece of the city that has since been covered-over by the desert and time? Or even one of the 'known ruins' in Anauroch (although as Wooly has stated, you're better off creating your own, lesser-known 'lore' in these situations).
Thats all I got, and I'm pretty-much considered THE geography expert on The Realms, and if there is a tomb, I sure as heck don't know about it (and unless he constructed it ahead of time like the Egyptians did - and there's very little lore stating they did such things - I'd wonder why there was a tomb... for a guy who thought he was about to become an immortal god). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 19:27:29
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade
Aah, my bad.. >.<
(why does material on the net cite Wooly's spider man based idea as 'canon', as FR wiki?..)
I am quite unaware of, and unable to find anything, referencing my idea or implying that it's canon. Where did you find this reference?
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade
Anyway, there is a difference between playing as a super munchkin, and playing a Iznogoud ish character who in the game have ambition on being a munchkin. My though is figuring out 'why' the character wants Karsus' spellbook, or to plunder his tomb make for a better backstory than figuring out where to beat in the door to get it. (just don't wipe the party by playing as a Sith Lord, and have fun). :)
There are plenty of tombs scattered around the Realms, whether occupied by former wizards or other folk. Any of those would be an easier -- and far more logical -- target. |
| Starshade |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 19:12:31
Aah, my bad.. >.<
(why does material on the net cite Wooly's spider man based idea as 'canon', as FR wiki?..)
Anyway, there is a difference between playing as a super munchkin, and playing a Iznogoud ish character who in the game have ambition on being a munchkin. My though is figuring out 'why' the character wants Karsus' spellbook, or to plunder his tomb make for a better backstory than figuring out where to beat in the door to get it. (just don't wipe the party by playing as a Sith Lord, and have fun). :) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 18:11:49
I am curious about the viability of a character concept that cannot exist without official material on an NPC dead for 1700 years.
Actually, I'm pretty wary of any character concept that has to be tied to Karsus. I've no issue with tying a character backstory to an NPC, but I don't like using named ones, and the more prominent the named NPC is, the weaker the concept becomes. IMO, of course. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 17:44:04
As bad as that was. I think the 5e 'Sundering' series did the same thing, only worse.
They hyped the heck out of it, and made it seem like, "All will be revealed" (and fixed!), and instead we got a bunch of completely unrelated stories that just made off-hand mention of the Spellplague/Sundering. Instead of a good explanation, we got a 'marketing gimmick'.
I find it hard to believe that ANYONE actually thought that 'plan' was a good idea. It felt more like, "Hey, lets milk this dying cow one last time."
So, as much as I dislike the whole Return of the Archwizards thing in 3e, and the way it was falsely used to usher-in 3e, in hindsight, it could have been worse. So much worse. At least the 3e designers were professionals who were great at their craft (having honed their skill in the 2e era).
4e felt like a really bad joke we were all waiting for the punchline to, and 5e felt like a patch-job on that joke (and I could make a very timely political joke right now... but I won't). Compared to everything that came after, 3e's silly uber-plots don't look so bad now.
quote:
Originally posted by LWhitehead1
Like I've stated I would like to an official write of Karsus's Tomb or Spellbook at least so I can explain why my idea for a character in FR
You're requesting an 'official' write-up for something that does not - and should not - exist?
For a guy who's name you couldn't even bother getting right?
So you can create a super-munchkin?
Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay...
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| LWhitehead1 |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 17:43:22
Like I've stated I would like to an official write of Karsus's Tomb or Spellbook at least so I can explain why my idea for a character in FR
LW |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 15:20:08
The Return of the Archwizards trilogy would have been a great way to explain the changes from 2E to 3E... And in fact, when I saw that the books were coming out, that was exactly what I expected.
The reality was that there was no explanation at all, in books or source material, for the changes that occurred betwixt 2E and 3E.
As for the Karsestone being used by Cyric to kill Mystra, that was my idea -- it was something of an alternate spin on the way things went down. I lifted the idea in part from Spider-Man comics -- Spider-Man's spider-sense doesn't work against Venom because the symbiote was formerly bonded to Spider-Man. So I decided that the Karsestone, as part of a former (if only momentarily) deity of magic, could act as a cloak and allow another deity to enter Mystra's divine realm undetected.
So far as I know, Shar grabbed the Karsestone at the end of the RotA trilogy, and like so many other potential plot points, its existence has been utterly ignored since then. |
| KanzenAU |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 11:36:28
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade
The novel trilogy Return of the Archwizards by Troy Denning, who explained the transition of 3.5 to 4th edition D&D in the Anauroch desert, mentions the remains of Karsus, named the karse stone, as a plot point. There is possible for someone to have taken a piece of it, and a part being somewhere else in FR.
The "canon" of 5th edition I think is that the karse stone is held by cyric, after he used it to kill mystra in the transition from 3.5 to 4th edition.
Also, the karse stone is supposed to be his heart, not the whole body.
Return of the Archwizards was more about the transition to 3rd edition. The books came out in the early 2000s and are set around 1372 or so.
I'd be interested to hear where you read Cyric used a bit of Karsus to kill Mystra, I definitely missed that! |
| Starshade |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 11:16:17
The novel trilogy Return of the Archwizards by Troy Denning, who explained the transition of 3.5 to 4th edition D&D in the Anauroch desert, mentions the remains of Karsus, named the karse stone, as a plot point. There is possible for someone to have taken a piece of it, and a part being somewhere else in FR.
The "canon" of 5th edition I think is that the karse stone is held by cyric, after he used it to kill mystra in the transition from 3.5 to 4th edition.
Also, the karse stone is supposed to be his heart, not the whole body. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Nov 2016 : 22:11:31
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Think a few Netheril cities do remain, although most were destroyed. Sakkors destroyed, Shade destroyed, at least some of Netheril's ground cities swallowed by desert sands, Gloomwrought in the Shadowfell likely remains.
There were three occupied Netherese cities left in the Realms after the Fall of Netheril. Two more occupied cities survived, but weren't in the Realms, and the other enclaves were no longer occupied -- like Sakkors, because it landed in water and rolled over for a couple of miles. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 12 Nov 2016 : 19:15:09
Actually, Karsus DID have a 'tomb', although I can't remember the details, or why he would even have one. And the worst part is, IIRC, it was somewhere around the Dragon Coast.
It may have been in one of the early Elminster books. All I remember was there was a big 'K' symbol on the door (which some fans took issue with, given that the Phonetic alphabet doesn't exist in the Realms). There was a battle there involving Elminster, I think, and some priests (Talona?).
I just did a quick search - it was in Temptation of Elminster. I still have no idea why such a place existed, although it appears to have been built by Karsus himself.
EDIT: Just sped-read through parts of it. It was near Starmantle, near a village called Ripplestones (I have to mark that on my new map). Whats interesting is that I now think the cultists were Sharrran (not 100% on that - I'm busy fixing a furnace and don't have time for a thorough read-through today). In one of Paul Kemp's Erevis Cale novels, he places a small lake important to Shar also near Starmantle. Coincidence? It ties-in with my theories about the shape of the SoFS. Anyhow, from what little I gathered, it wasn't quite a tomb, but rather, a place where Karsus kept a clone (that never got to function), but what really ties it to this thread is that it included a pre-programmed teaching illusion (like a scify hologram thingie) of Karsus himself, to help his 'new self' on his way (or whoever found the place... as I said, I was only reading every tenth word or so). |
| Gyor |
Posted - 12 Nov 2016 : 16:34:37
Think a few Netheril cities do remain, although most were destroyed. Sakkors destroyed, Shade destroyed, at least some of Netheril's ground cities swallowed by desert sands, Gloomwrought in the Shadowfell likely remains. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Nov 2016 : 14:45:09
There was no tomb. He turned into a big rock and fell out of the sky.
And he destroyed Netheril in the process. There weren't many left to build him a tomb, and they would have been rather disinclined to do so.
Unless you make up something entirely out of thin air, there's really not much plot potential with Karsus. Maybe you could have one of his assistants who was elsewhere with one of Karsus's spellbooks, or something like that, but you're going off the map of published Realmslore, there. |
| LWhitehead1 |
Posted - 11 Nov 2016 : 14:05:11
What about his Tomb folks?, it's a great plot hook specially if someone with same level of smarts of Karsus came along.
LW |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 18 Aug 2016 : 22:42:34
quote:
Originally posted by LWhitehead1
So what about FR 5th what about the Netherese empire and there magic?,
The empire is gone. Lost a major war, major cities destroyed and the remnants either living in the ruins or pursuing inidividual goals in small cabals. As an empire or even a country it's gone. |
| LWhitehead1 |
Posted - 18 Aug 2016 : 06:27:54
So what about FR 5th what about the Netherese empire and there magic?,
LW |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 16 Aug 2016 : 17:18:28
Yes, Karsus was a brilliant young prodigy by Netherese standards. He "died" at the age of 357, the prime of his life, while most of his Arcanist peers were older by easily a dozen centuries or more.
Though Netheril: Empire of Magic only mentions it in passing, Karsus became annoyed by intermittent failure of his Ioulaum's Longevity magic and voluntarily liched himself shortly before Netheril's Fall. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 15 Aug 2016 : 16:24:34
The Hubris of Youth... |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 15 Aug 2016 : 13:20:22
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
No. Karsus was healthy and middle-aged, he wasn't expecting to die after eating Mystryl's divinity.
Middle aged?
He was downright young by netheril wizard standards. His aptitude let him learn too quick and he never learned restraint to go along with it.
Kind of like a kid playing with a bomb he tinkered with to make bigger by adding a can of gas.
357 years old was young lol |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 15 Aug 2016 : 03:47:44
No. Karsus was healthy and middle-aged, he wasn't expecting to die after eating Mystryl's divinity. |
| LWhitehead1 |
Posted - 14 Aug 2016 : 19:04:42
Yes Him, I mean of the Wizards should have Darths in front of there name.
Did he official leave a Tomb full of his mystical books and such bric a brac,
LW |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 14 Aug 2016 : 05:35:28
Kanras? Do you mean Karsus?
-- George Krashos |
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