| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Cult_Leader |
Posted - 19 Mar 2004 : 13:46:25
Anyone have an Idea for a class that is kind of like a holy type of char, (as in good nothing evil please) That is actually based on revenge or vigilanty justice? I watched B. Saints the other night and got an idea for a class. I have one, just wondering what your ideas might be so I can better fix my own. Also, this next one does not focus on D&D really, but if any of you have any ideas for a Dark Side Class for D20 Star Wars I would be very very happy to soak up your ideas on that as well. I want something that is not focused on Sith Warrior, Sith Lord, Sith Witch, Dark side marauder, Dark side Acolyte etc. I want a new Dark side or sith class. Im looking to play an Evilish char soon and could use the help, I want soething never done before lol. Thank you for anyone who can help. |
| 21 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 07 May 2004 : 16:35:46
I have to agree there, though Alaundo will get angry at me for encouraging an off-topic topic.  (Well, it is relevent to the discussion . . . .)
Batman was not a vigilante. I say again, he was not. Why? Well, in the strictest sense of the word, I suppose he is: it came into American English from the Spanish, where it just means "watchman." But in American English, it means someone who dispenses justice on his own. Batman just caught the bad guys; he never punished them, believing that the system could do it. (Well, there are times he didn't, but I'm speaking of the overall character.)
The Punisher, however, is judge, jury, and executioner. He lives by the idea that anything bad gets punished, but he doesn't believe in proportion to the crime. He just wants them out of the way. I don't know as much about this character as Batman, but I figure he sees himself as cleansing society. Remove the canker to protect the body. That sort of thing.
Both these characters would be hard to fit in the alignment system. However, I'd call Batman Lawful Good, and the Punisher Chaotic Good.
Now, to bring this back, which character would you like this class to be like, Cult Leader? |
| D-brane |
Posted - 07 May 2004 : 06:29:43
quote:
Originally posted by Sarta
Someone like Batman or the Punisher lives by a very strict moral code that they enforce upon those who break it, regardless of what the laws of the land say, because they perceive breakdowns in the system.
The Punisher lives by a strict moral code . . . ?  . Are we thinking of the same character from Marvel Comics Sarta?. The Frank Castle I know of, did some very questionable things towards the end of his life, and judging from the perspective of the Batman's outlook on crime, I don't think he'd like to be put into the same category  .
Cult_Leader, what type of setting are you seeing this kind of class operating in the most?. I mean, are we talking about a mainly urban setting, or will the class be useful outside the city's walls as well?.
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| Cult_Leader |
Posted - 05 May 2004 : 13:47:13
quote:
Originally posted by Sarta
You may want to reconsider the alignment on this new class. Chaotic anything doesn't really lend itself to a "vigilante". While someone chaotic may perform vigilante actions, I would think that it requires far more dedication to a specific ideal of justice to be what is really considered a full-time vigilante.
A chaotic good person may step in and deal with a specific person who is acting in a heinous manner, but I can't see them dedicating themselves to a life of this. I'd really consider that more in line with someone who is lawful. While most lawful people follow the laws of their land, many also follow internal laws. When the laws of the land fail, a lawful vigilante would take it upon themselves to eradicate those who flaunt these laws. Someone like Batman or the Punisher lives by a very strict moral code that they enforce upon those who break it, regardless of what the laws of the land say, because they perceive breakdowns in the system.
I'd strongly consider creating the new vigilante class with lawful neutral in mind.
Sarta
Well since the base of this new class is set on the chars. from the movie. Its easier to go with CG. The reason for this is the fact that they worked with someone who was "evil" in nature. Or more Neutral at least. The person they were working with actually worked for the mob peoples they were killing. So CG fits better then LN. The reason for that being the fact that they did not kill their friend. Other wise they would have killed their friend, who just happed to be the person who used to work for the mob they were killing off. Not only did they kill off mob members but others to. An example of this is when they went into the "adult show" building. They went in their after the "second in command" of the mob family, blasted him, and then went after two people in other booths. So you see its more of a CG align. Not Lawful at all. Lets see. As for your info Book I actually clashed the two style you spoke of together. Im just slowly working on it since I have to work now and all lol. I made them a bit weaker then a normal fighter, however, I also slapped into the mix a nice touch of theif. i was thinking perhaps, of tossing in magic in place of the theif... But then I said naw forget that. I will just give them abilities that they can use at any time and ones that can be used at random. Random skills are far better then planned ones. Since then you can use your random skills on anything that might come your way, when planned ones, such as a wizards spells, might leave you in a tight spot. Not all spells can be used for certain things. Anyway thats all for right now. |
| Sarta |
Posted - 05 Apr 2004 : 19:51:02
You may want to reconsider the alignment on this new class. Chaotic anything doesn't really lend itself to a "vigilante". While someone chaotic may perform vigilante actions, I would think that it requires far more dedication to a specific ideal of justice to be what is really considered a full-time vigilante.
A chaotic good person may step in and deal with a specific person who is acting in a heinous manner, but I can't see them dedicating themselves to a life of this. I'd really consider that more in line with someone who is lawful. While most lawful people follow the laws of their land, many also follow internal laws. When the laws of the land fail, a lawful vigilante would take it upon themselves to eradicate those who flaunt these laws. Someone like Batman or the Punisher lives by a very strict moral code that they enforce upon those who break it, regardless of what the laws of the land say, because they perceive breakdowns in the system.
I'd strongly consider creating the new vigilante class with lawful neutral in mind.
Sarta |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 05 Apr 2004 : 16:24:54
Well, that's still open-ended. What sort of behaviors should this one have? Is it a be-sneaky-and-backstab-the-evil-ones class, or get-outa-my-way-citizens-I-must-chase-that-evildoer class?  Not necessarily those descriptions, I admit. |
| Cult_Leader |
Posted - 05 Apr 2004 : 13:45:07
I think all this is leading to is me making another class. Book to answer your questions both. You can be both holy and still be an vigilanty. The main parts of the class would focus on that. Perhaps soemthing like a C.G Paladin of some sorts. Who knows. But this will be my fourth class that I will be building I guess. Im not the best at it but meh. I have produced a Demonic Bezerker, Man Slayer ( posted on the sight the name is just for flare hehe), A newer version of an elementalist (since the ele. knight P.Class, and the elementalist class found online both ... well ... were far to weak to even be played, and now they have meaning to a group), and now some form of Chaotic Good Vigilanty Paladin like class. So any ideas would be nice. |
| Sarta |
Posted - 27 Mar 2004 : 10:22:35
I'm not a big one for tweaking classes, but I've know you've done quite a bit of work with new prc's. You may want to see what can be done to the hexblade to create a divine spell-casting version.
The hexblade, ranger, and paladin have a few things in common, amongst them is spell-casting late in the game and a very narrow range of spells. I wouldn't think it would be too hard to pick and choose appropriate divine spells that stick to the theme of bringing misfortune to one's foes and combat "buff" type spells.
Sarta |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Mar 2004 : 08:39:30
Hmmm...an interesting idea...
I guess now I'll have to dig out my copy of Powers and Pantheons, as you've just provided me with the basis of a very unique adventure hook, which will make quite significant use of the 'Hexblade' class...Thank you Sarta...
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| Sarta |
Posted - 27 Mar 2004 : 01:49:14
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Sarta, the Hexblade class is a very unique design. So much so, that it has even been suggested on the WotC Message Boards, that DMs should adjudicate use of this class very carefully.
Their "ignoring the laws of the land in order to meet out revenge" as you say, is one of the primary examples of the class cited, that suggests the possibility of the class being abused by some gamers.
I would think that the Hexblade would only be appropriate for some settings, or perhaps, areas of a campaign world where the line between Good and Evil is less defined...
I couldn't agree with you more.
However, when used this way, it echoes the common complaint about traveling clergy of Hoar:
quote:
... Hoar's clergy seek out victims of injustice, hear their stories, evaluate the veracity of their accounts, and track down the perpetrators in order to inflict a fitting form of punishment or "essential justice" as they like to think of it. No injustice is too large or too small for revenge to be sought and a fitting punishment meeted out. Actions of this type have caused most town watches and Tyrists to brand priests of the Doombringer as vigilantes and raised the stature of the priesthood to that of champion of the downtrodden and underdogs in the eyes of the common folk.
From Powers and Pantheons, page 30.
It just seemed to be too good a match up. So, when confronted with a player who wanted to play a hexblade, I improvised and deemed it appropriate that areas that followed Hoar had an order of hexblades that are effectively their "knights". It would have been a better match if their spell-casting was divine rather than arcane, but it is not unheard of for churches to have orders of arcane casters... the Monks of the Dark Moon for instance.
Also, in the case of Cult_Leader's original query, hexblades definitely match up well with what he is going after if he is modeling this class on the characters of Boondock Saints. The characters of the movie ignore the laws of the land through using lethal force to find vigilante justice for criminals that have managed to slip through the system. The reactions of the "average citizens" at the end of the movie underlines the moral ambiguity of this decision. Half of those interviewed feel that they are nothing but criminals who need to be arrested and half feel that they are heroes to be honored.
Since this was what he was modeling the class on, I felt that he was looking for a character class that was morally ambiguous and assumed that the campaign would be one of shades of gray morality rather than stark black and white.
Sarta |
| Cult_Leader |
Posted - 26 Mar 2004 : 13:17:31
I think I will go with that class then. Due to the fact that ll of the games run by said person have a small line (and I do mean SMALL) between good and evil. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Mar 2004 : 08:31:04
Sarta, the Hexblade class is a very unique design. So much so, that it has even been suggested on the WotC Message Boards, that DMs should adjudicate use of this class very carefully.
Their "ignoring the laws of the land in order to meet out revenge" as you say, is one of the primary examples of the class cited, that suggests the possibility of the class being abused by some gamers.
I would think that the Hexblade would only be appropriate for some settings, or perhaps, areas of a campaign world where the line between Good and Evil is less defined...
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| Sarta |
Posted - 25 Mar 2004 : 01:06:02
quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Leader
Anyone have an Idea for a class that is kind of like a holy type of char, (as in good nothing evil please) That is actually based on revenge or vigilanty justice? I watched B. Saints the other night and got an idea for a class. I have one, just wondering what your ideas might be so I can better fix my own.
First off, let me just say that Boondock Saints was an absolutely fantastic film -- one of my favorites.
In terms of your question, I know that I've adapted the hexblade over to fulfill this sort of position. In my FR campaign, hexblades are an order of worshippers of Hoar/Assuran who don't have a calling for the priesthood, but still wish to see justice done to those who are deserving.
I adapted over some of the flavor of F&A by saying that most hexblades carry a weapon of each damage type and typically attempt to pick up the improved disarm feat as quickly as possible. This is so they can defeat their opponents with the same sort of weapon or their own weapon for an even more fitting reprisal. The only mechanical change I made to the class was give them knowledge religion as a class skill.
I know that hexblades are not good, but then again, ignoring the laws of the land in order to meet out revenge (whether justly deserved or not) is also not traditionally thought of as a good act either.
Sarta |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 24 Mar 2004 : 16:21:51
Okay. Do you want the focus to be on the "holy" part, or the "vigilante" part? |
| Cult_Leader |
Posted - 23 Mar 2004 : 15:27:41
Maybe, But im not looking for P. Classes, I want classes you can start off as. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Mar 2004 : 08:35:33
I really don't think that the 'Justiciar' PrC from Complete Warrior would be the most appropriate choice. Looking over what he wants the class to be like, Cult_Leader has mentioned classes (and PrCs) from 'another d20 setting' ( ) which have abilities more like some of the classes presented in the BoED.
There's also a Divine Justice PrC presented on the old Community3e site that would also achieve many of the requirements he had mentioned previously.
I'll look into posting a link soon...
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 20 Mar 2004 : 07:17:38
But he can employ a targeted erase spell.
Besides, the Justicar PrC (from The Complete Warrior) probably fits what Cult Leader's looking for. |
| Shadowlord |
Posted - 20 Mar 2004 : 02:32:35
Hehe...
Alaundo, you can't burn the scroll, seeing as how the top half actually does have some "Realmsian-Relevance." Oooh, I've just coined two phrases! First "sharelore," and now this! |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 19 Mar 2004 : 14:12:50
Well met
 Eberron, Ravenloft and now THIS!!? This is even further removed from our beloved Realms 
Ill burn this scroll forthwith..... if only there werent wards against flame within these walls! |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 19 Mar 2004 : 14:02:12
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I could talk at great length on this topic, being a d20 Star Wars gamer myself, but rather than risk the all-mighty wrath of Alaundo, may I suggest we continue this discussion via ethereal mail?. Or, maybe a more appropriate forum, like WotC's d20 Star Wars boards...?
Spoken like a wise Jedi Master. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 19 Mar 2004 : 13:59:55
I could talk at great length on this topic, being a d20 Star Wars gamer myself, but rather than risk the all-mighty wrath of Alaundo, may I suggest we continue this discussion via ethereal mail?. Or, maybe a more appropriate forum, like WotC's d20 Star Wars boards...?
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 19 Mar 2004 : 13:53:09
::As he reads the second half of the opening passage, the Bookwyrm stiffens, then quickly steps aside so as to be out of the staff of the irritated moderator's flight path.:: |
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