| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Shadowsoul |
Posted - 01 Jan 2016 : 17:25:30
Hello everyone!
Now that Myrkul has been brought back I decided to take advantage of the something I have wanted to do for years. I wanted to give some actual information as to the volumes of the Nekorrak and incorporate them my plans for a new empire of Shoon to arise with the return of Myrkul.
Now I am unable to find any information on the Nekorrak except for the fact that they are Shoon and they are considered holy relics of the Church of Myrkul. I also know they were lost in the Sea of Fallen Stars.
What I would like to do is actually give them some kind of identity and a history. There are 5 volumes that were commissioned by Shoon VII and were given up for lost according to the Sea of Fallen Stars guide. I was thinking about having Myrkul send minions to his clergy and order them to find the Nekorrak and go from there.
If anyone has any more actual canon info on them I would love to have it. Also, if anyone would like to help me with this little project I would be happy for the help. |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 21:08:51
The Guide to Hell is definitely planescape canon: it's hard to argue against the planescape logo printed on every page.
That being said, the Twin-Serpent-Jazirian-Ahriman myth it explains (in fair detail) is completely unsupported by any other canon planescape reference. I happen to be rather fond of the Ouroboros World Serpent, myself, so I feel it's certainly a theme which needs to be present somewhere in planescape. I accept that the Guide to Hell version is a "creation myth", it can never be confirmed or denied, it can never be proven or disproved. The central entities (Jazirian and Ahriman/Asmodeus) are impossible to consult and would never consent to revealing the "real" truth - or worse! - they'd simply leave such teachings to their faiths and followers. This account of a creation myth as recorded by a single scholar is like any of the creation myths (so-called "histories") of dragons, elves, drow, dwarves, orcs, Sigil, the Blood War, Realmspace, etc - they're all "true" even though they're all incompatible. And remember that Jazarian and Asmodeus are vast and magisterial beings of immense godlike power (even if they lack enough such power to have created the entire cosmos) so their beliefs may have indeed (re)shaped planescape's reality enough to (retroactively) determine their myth as the Prime Cause behind the creation of the cosmos. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 16:30:55
Guide to Hell is the Great Wheel Cosmology - how is that not connected to Planescape? Its also 'Core' canon, and core in 2e meant Greyhawk, which means Great Wheel/Plaenscape.
As for the name thing (Ahrimanes) - we have Bhaal and Baal, and there is another name that is both a demon and a devil (I forget which) - when you have an 'infinite' number of fiends, names WILL repeat.
This has been brought-up before: Myrkul definitely isn't a 'primal' (original) god, and even Jergal (which is another name very similar to a fiend) isn't the original 'death god'. The Creator Races must have had their own, and the Sarrukh - being reptilian - should have had a 'scaly god' of death.
As for the 'legend' from Guide to Hell, I think like all the others, there must be a grain of truth to it. Perhaps modern scholars are just using newer names to describe two earlier (greater) beings. Or today's Jazirian is just an aspect of THE Jazirian (just as we have hints that Aamoseus might be an aspect of Ahriman... but I think thats wrong, and maybe that Ahrimanes dude is actually the aspect that has taken a back-seat for whatever reason).
Also, if fiends are created from the 'stuff' of the plane itself, and Ahriman IS the plane of Hell, then it stands to reason that nearly all Devils are 'Ahriman' on some level. They may have their own minds, but they 'borrow' their physical forms from him/it. |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 13:14:07
Guide to Hell isn't actually connected to Planescape. Jazirian's counterpart is probably Merrshaulk, not the Dark Lord of Nessus; and FC2 tossed the entire concept out the window when they published the myth that the Dark Lord was a fallen exemplar of Law. Ahriman himself exists in Planescape as the tanar'ri prince Ahrimanes.
The whole World Serpent deal that connects the Lord of the Depths Below with the couatl-god is non-existent, as the Dark Lord doesn't actually have a connection to the World Serpent archetype. Merrshaulk, Shekinester, Io, Ramenos and Jazirian herself do, however.
Jazzy's aspect in the Realms was slain by Merrshaulk, but the power itself is alive and well in Mount Celestia.
There are also alternate myths that don't even hint at the Dark Lord being some supreme snake god, and we already know that the baatezu are usurpers to the plane of Baator. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Feb 2017 : 05:33:33
This might be better-off in that other thread where someone was asking after pre-Faerūnian Calimshan religious beliefs, but doing some WIKI searches (that lead me a merry chase of 'Turkic' traditions), I discovered something interesting in the entries of Zoroastrianism...
Ahriman is their chief 'evil deity' - very much a 'satan' figure, and Ahriman payed a very important part in the actual creation of the Planescape (Great Wheel) cosmology (Guide to Hell), alongside Jazirian, who very-much has a place within FR cosmology.
Like I said, some of that might be 'food for thought' for the other thread, and the basis for figuring-out some ancient (pre Al-Qadim) Zakharan traditions (being a place thats very much based on 'elemental' stuff) - the genies of Zakhara could have been involved in all the stuff that transpired that created the demons in the first place (out of corrupted elementals), in primordial (Pre-Sundering) times (the 'war of the Gods'). Just the barest hint of a possible idea. Maybe tie Zakhara better into FR's history with some stuff about the World Serpent.
ANYHOW... I was actually looking for some sort of 'Turkic' (being that SS was going for a 'Ottoman Empire' thing with Calimshan) death god that may have been more apt for this work (Nekorrak), but that religion was monotheistic (with aspects of duelism). In the RW, before that religion there was the ancient Babylonian/Sumerian beliefs, and we already have those pantheon(s?) in the Old Empires. I'm wondering if having Anubis (under an alias) in early Calimshan might be worth doing? He's one of the few members of the Pharonic pantheon that didn't have a presence in FR. Or, we could possibly use Set, since he is also connected to serpents and might be tied to the later-appearing Ahriman ('later' in RW, but technically 'earlier' - maybe - in Planecape/Great Wheel). IIRC, both Set and Sseth are connected to the World Serpent as well (so were pulling in some Serpent Kingdoms into all of this, which is fine, since they were highly active in the south).
Anyway, I'm tired, and I may not be making much sense (as I said, this was just the barest 'nub' of an idea-seed), but I think it might be more interesting in connecting the 'five malachite Plates' to an even earlier deity than Myrkul might be fun, and Myrkul's faith has now just appropriated them as part of their own beliefs and relics (IIRC, there is also a temple over near the Golden Waters that is Myrkul's, but use to belong to an earlier 'death god'). Maybe because Anubis never made it over to FR, Set's been playing the 'death god' for the Old Empires all along. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 19:44:15
Well after some time I have changed my mind on my initial thoughts.
I will not be connecting the creation of this book to Myrkul.
Instead this book was penned (at least in part) by Shoon but purely for himself and as with most famous books in the realms it began as a spell book and treatise on necromantic processes.
Myrkul's fledgling church in the south then comes into possession of the book and it is altered and becomes the basis for many rites and rituals that form part of the church's ethos today.
Of course I think the churches of Myrkul have had many ups and downs over the centuries since its inception and these religions have been destroyed and reborn across the realms (there was a "circle of skulls" lich cabal that was destroyed by the first Harpers I believe which was based in the Vilhon region). So the book was probably used only by the first incarnation of the religion and has now passed into legend as holy scripture that is long lost.
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| Markustay |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 19:30:31
I would definitely connect those volumes to Nykkar (City of Sorrows) in the Marching Mountains in Calimshan (Empires of the Sands, pg.84).
It was a Shoon-owned 'city of the dead' which also served as a necromantic laboratory.
EDIT: I also find it very amusing that whenever we get 'far flung' bits of connected lore (stuff from one FR region being mentioned in another), 99% of the time you'll find it was the same writer who worked on both.  |
| Thamiar |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 15:26:22
Interesting stuff!
So you say that all the informations about Nekorrak and his volumes are on the 26th page of Sea of Fallen Stars? Nothing more? |
| Shadowsoul |
Posted - 02 Jan 2016 : 06:24:33
Thanks for the info lads!
Looks like I will be going at these from scratch. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 02 Jan 2016 : 02:38:05
There is no further canon information - the reference is simply one of Steven's realmslore hooks that he scattered in proliferation throughout his work.
-- George Krashos |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 02 Jan 2016 : 00:28:18
Just so that later folks can find the source info easy. 2nd edition, Sea of Fallen Stars, page 26
"the five complete malachite plate volumes of the Nekorrak, now viewed as holy relics of the dead church of Myrkul even though they were commissioned by Shoon VII and created by necromancers of the court."
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| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 01 Jan 2016 : 20:17:17
Interesting find.
First action would be to ask Steven Schend if he remembers or has anything about these books since he wrote Sea of Fallen Stars.
I checked out the passage and being noted as commissioned by Shoon VII which puts the creation date as between 309 and 367 dr.
Necromancers penned the books and it is possible they had some standing among the church of myrkul (because by this time he was probably a fully fledged deity or at least a demigod).
For some idea of what the book might have contained. Shoon VII slaughtered whole herds of unicorns to create powerful artefacts. The corruption, slaughter, dissection, and enchantment of such goodly creatures may be detailed in this book.
In the battle with Iryklathagra, I believe Shoon VII used the souls of thousands of slaves to try and kill the dragon. Such a spell and other horrific works could also be detailed in the book.
Alternatively it might just be the formative tenets and edicts of the church of Myrkul penned down. Kind of like the first holy text, in which case it might not have any special powers at all, or it could detail the process of lich creation that Shoon VII himself undertook. |
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