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Originally posted by Aldrick

As others have said Sorcerers were not really explained, and so there is a need to homebrew some explanations. I tackled how I handled these things in the past.

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Originally posted by Aldrick

I always loved the fluff of the sorcerer class, and felt that it worked very well with the Realms.

...long ago one of your ancestors intermingled with a powerful being with a strong connection to magic. Now, centuries later the traces of your ancient lineage are re-emerging as you forge an ever stronger connection with the Weave, enabling you to draw upon the raw forces of magic through sheer force of will, and through the power of your long forgotten bloodline.

To me this is infinitely more interesting than a wizard.

However, I roleplayed out how the vancian magic system worked differently for each class.

For wizards, they spent hours studying their spell book. Magic for wizards involved long and complicated rituals, and so as they were studying and preparing their spells for the day they were casting those rituals. Each ritual ended in such a way that the magic could be "released" with a few physical and verbal gestures which act as "triggers" to activate the ritual. I described the Weave like a giant tapestry woven across reality, drawing its energy and power from many different sources, and making magic easily accessible and manipulable. A wizard was drawing on the many different threads of the tapestry attempting to "Weave" a new pattern - altering reality. Spells were often called "Weavings" or "Weaves".

For sorcerers, things were different. They lacked the same understanding of magic as wizards do. They operate through gut and intuition. They're not "casting" spells they're "reaching with the power of their ancient blood", and "grabbing" hold of the "threads" of the Weave and through sheer force of will *imposing* the pattern they want to create - altering reality. This is an exhausting process, and spells for sorcerers are more like "tricks" they learn. They intuitively learn through trial and error that if they do X then Y happens, but probably can't explain what they did or how they did it. Sorcerous powers often manifest between the ages of eight and sixteen, especially during moments of great stress. Sorcerers are dangerous if they don't learn how to control their abilities, as they could inadvertently harm themselves or someone else. They need to rest after casting spells, either through meditation or sleep, because what they do is exhausting both mentally and physically.

Bard magic is a bit of a mix between the two. Bards have learned to manipulate the Weave in a similar way that wizards have, but they do so through dance, instruments, and song. Bard magic is less precise than that of a wizard, and is focused less on carefully "Weaving" the right threads of the pattern together and more on brute force like the sorcerer. So in that way the Bard has learned to use his force of will to manipulate the Weave much like the sorcerer. Like for the sorcerer, it is exhausting, and he must rest.

Psionics is also a bit of a mix between the two, but they have learned alternate methods of doing similar things. Instead of studying the tapestry of the Weave itself, Psions have turned inward. They focus on learning how to master their minds, and through intense discipline learn how to carefully impose their will upon the Weave. This is much less brute force like sorcerers, and even less brute force than bards. However, it is still not as precise and as careful as a wizard. Despite what some psions claim they access their power through the Weave as well. Like with sorcerers what they do causes them exhaustion and they need to rest.

Warlocks, Clerics, and other divine spell casters are different from those who practice arcane magic. They do not access their magic directly; they channel it instead. They make pacts with powerful beings who then grant them the ability to channel certain powers through them. The beings they serve limit the amount of power that they can channel each day, otherwise they run the risk of their servant drawing too much and causing them harm. Warlocks get this power through pledging service or making an agreement with this power. Clerics and Druids get this power through worshiping and serving the powers interest in the mortal world.

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One of the ways I "enhanced" the sorcerer was to make sure that people knew that it was VERY different from playing a wizard. This is mostly a focus on fluff.

"No, you're not 'casting' Magic Missile. You're drawing upon something deep inside yourself, and then reaching out to seize control of something that you can't quite see - only sense and feel. You're then ripping off a part of it - pure magical energy - and hurling it at your foe."

"But the spell says it has verbal and somatic components. Aren't I speaking in some arcane language and using precise hand gestures?"

"Absolutely not! There is nothing precise about what you do. You're standing there in the heat of the moment, and you're grabbing a hold of something - you have no real idea what it is... you just can sense and feel it there. You're grabbing this thing and you're hurling it at the goblin. You're not speaking in some arcane language, you're roaring with anger as you grab this stuff, or you're yelling an enraged battle cry - you feel more alive than you ever have before! - or maybe you're wailing in terror as you touch this - what the hell is it?! You're not using precise motions you're flailing with your arms as you yell out - trying to grab something you can't see - then you're hurling it at the goblin. You're not some stuffy ass wizard who grew up in some dusty old library, you have no idea what you're doing - this is all by the seat of your pants - it's exhilarating , it's terrifying, you're filled with a tremendous sense of power... think EMOTION! Think INTUITION! GUT INSTINCTS!

You're roaring with rage, trembling with the power you've pulled into your body, grasping upon -SOMETHING- and then HURLING it at the goblin. As you gesture at him malformed orbs of pure arcane energy emerge from your hands - ripping through the goblin's body. The creature howls in absolute agony, as one of your missiles hits him in the face and another in the stomach. The one that hit him in the face has seared his flesh as if he was struck by flame, his eye dangles from a socket as he whips his head back and forth in terror and pain. The one that struck him in the stomach has ripped open his flesh, and his insides are starting to spill out. The goblin glances down and panics instinctively grabbing his intestines as he falls to his knees. It is clear that he won't last long... he is going to bleed to death."

"I want to finish him off, can I finish him?"

"Yes."

"I want to cast acid splash in his face."

"You walk up to the goblin who is starting to cough up blood. He is clearly defenseless. As you get closer his one remaining eye widens with terror, it cries out something in a strange tongue, something you think is a plea for mercy. But still filled with the rush of battle, you step up to him, he leans back - his one good eye growing even wider. You reach for the power behind your site once more then **SEIZE** it, with another roar you thrust your hand toward the goblins face and an orb of acid emerges from your hand. The moment it strikes the beast there is a loud 'HISSSSSSS' as its flesh begins to melt, a sound which is rapidly drown out by the defenseless creature howling in pain. The howl quickly becomes a gurgling sound as the goblin collapses backwards, the good side of his face now completely melted - both eyes gone - the acid having melted his cheek as well and filled his mouth, which is now mixed with a froth of acid and blood. The gurgling soon ceases as well, the goblin twitches a few more times, and then is completely still.

As the adrenaline from the battle begins to fade, you're left feeling somewhat tired and exhausted... and confused. What the hell did you just do? How did you do it? You feel lightheaded and unsteady on your feet.

Okay, what do you do now? Do you get how this goes with sorcerers and how they're different from wizards?"

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Aside from fluff, I'd make up free feats for the PC that were relevant to their bloodline. I was never a stickler for balance, and always leaned more toward the "Rule of Cool" and the "Rule of Drama."

So for that reason, I'd always lean toward discouraging bloodlines that wouldn't result in some interesting problems. This pretty much rules out most benevolent fey and celestial types. My personal favorite are aberrations. So, let's say someone is playing a sorcerer with a beholder bloodline.

Maddening Whispers
Ahhh! They won't stop! No matter how hard you try the whispers at the back of your mind keep coming back. It's like having tiny little teeth gnawing on your brain - arrgh! It's hard to think! "Yes, I am perfect." "Wait?! Did I say that? No.. no... It was them, wasn't it? Gods! It's getting hard to tell the difference!"

Prerequisite: Level 3 Sorcerer. Little did you know when you first became aware of your "special" lineage and started walking down this path that it would have a price... but doesn't power always have a price? What's the loss of ones sanity compared to UNLIMITED POWER? Well, that's what the whispers seem to think, at least.

Benefits: Select a knowledge related skill. By listening to the maddening whispers you gain a +3 bonus on all checks involving that skill; this stacks with Skill Focus. The maddening whispers may drive you a little insane, but they seem to hold deep knowledge.

Special: The whispers seem to have a will of their own. You cannot control them. Yet, they have an intense effect on you. The whispers occasionally attempt to compel you to do things you would not otherwise do. Obeying the whispers is completely voluntary (resulting in you using your force of will to maintain your control and composure), but if you choose to obey you will be rewarded an agreed upon amount of Bonus XP.


I AM THE SYMBOL OF PERFECTION!
Pathetic fools! Why can't they see that you, and you alone are the symbol of perfection? You are what your race was meant to be! All others are inferior by far, does your power not prove that? What?! How dare that one look at you as if you were mad. You are not mad! "I'M NOT MAD!" Yes... saying it like that makes it true, doesn't it? Wait... did you say that out loud? Why is he running away?

Prerequisite: Level 5 Sorcerer (and every five levels thereafter)

Benefits: Select a sub-type of your race. From this point forward you view this sub-type as inferior to yourself, and you have trouble hiding your disdain for them. You receive a -3 penalty on your Bluff and Diplomacy checks. However, you receive a +3 to your Intimidation checks. Your disdain for them is also such that you can draw upon additional power when facing them in combat. You gain +1d4 bonus damage whenever you use your magic to deal damage to them in battle.

Special: Whenever you slay an individual of the selected sub-racial type, you develop a gnawing hunger. You have the urge to consume their flesh - raw and uncooked. Should you decide to give into this urge the penalties are erased and your bonus magic damage increases to +1d6 until the next time you rest.


Cannibalistic Tendencies
You never knew your own people (inferior as they are) could look so delicious... You're quite certain their livers would go well with some fava beans and a nice Tethyrian tanagluth.

Prerequisite: Level 6 Sorcerer

Benefits: You gain a +1 Charisma Bonus that lasts for one day if you consume the flesh of someone of your own race. This bonus increases to +2 if it is of a sub-race that you find inferior to yourself. The meat MUST be fresh - killed within the last week, at least.

Special: This bonus can be doubled if you consume the flesh raw. Thus a sub-race you find inferior grants a +4 bonus, and all others of your race grant a +2 bonus if their flesh is consumed raw.


You get the idea.

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Originally posted by Aldrick

I think what's key to keeping the idea of the sorcerer separate from the wizard is that the source of their power comes from their blood. So, I think that the types of enhancements they receive should reflect that fact. And it's probably more than just tapping into their blood, but also HOW they tap into it and how it shapes them as a character.

I'd try not to have a sorcerer thinking that they're drawing from a wizard's spell list. For example, someone with an infernal bloodline isn't casting a fireball, they're drawing upon their blood and seizing upon the Weave to hurl a ball of pure Hellfire. Hell, if necessary I'll completely re-fluff a spell, and even make changes to its mechanics if necessary.

Rather than trying to create a universal mechanic, I'd instead just help the player customize their character in such a way that is awesome, cool, and relevant. I'd also listen to what they'd hope to accomplish.

So someone with a Fey bloodline, for example, I'd slowly have them tapping more and more into nature itself. I might even eventually open up some druid spells to them - or grant them some druid spells for free.

Here is an example...

Ensnared By Nature

Wherever you walk you can sense the plants around you. They are beginning to bend to your will in strange and unusual ways. Should you wish it, they will even defend you.

Prerequisite: Level 3 Sorcerer

Benefits: Once per day you gain the spell-like ability to call upon nearby plants to entangle your foes. This functions exactly as the spell Entangle.

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With things like this, it's more interesting fluff wise for the character and the player. However, my style is - as I said - less about balance and mechanics and more about the "Rule of Cool" and the "Rule of Drama." And in the end it's about ensuring the player is having fun, and it adds something to the story (both for their character and the collaborative narrative).

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I hope that this was useful to you, Hyperion.

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Sorcerer: Such innate magical abilities are called “wild talents”; they are usually far more limited than the D&D class, along the lines of the Magic Initiate feat. (In the Realms, “sorcerer” or “sorceress” generally means a wizard, not a member of this class.) Wild mages (users of Wild Magic) are also known.

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Originally posted by sleyvas

One of the takes I had for sorcerors having always been there was that the OGB had a lot of people with wild talent psionics in the realms. I suspect a lot of these were actually just natural sorcerers. I know a lot of folks would consider that sacrilege though.

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Originally posted by Hyperion

I mean, they were introduced in 3ed but their apparition in-game was not explained as it happened with Dragonborn, Genasi and Tiefling in 4ed.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Aldrick

I always loved the fluff of the sorcerer class, and felt that it worked very well with the Realms.

...long ago one of your ancestors intermingled with a powerful being with a strong connection to magic. Now, centuries later the traces of your ancient lineage are re-emerging as you forge an ever stronger connection with the Weave, enabling you to draw upon the raw forces of magic through sheer force of will, and through the power of your long forgotten bloodline.

To me this is infinitely more interesting than a wizard.

However, I roleplayed out how the vancian magic system worked differently for each class.

For wizards, they spent hours studying their spell book. Magic for wizards involved long and complicated rituals, and so as they were studying and preparing their spells for the day they were casting those rituals. Each ritual ended in such a way that the magic could be "released" with a few physical and verbal gestures which act as "triggers" to activate the ritual. I described the Weave like a giant tapestry woven across reality, drawing its energy and power from many different sources, and making magic easily accessible and manipulable. A wizard was drawing on the many different threads of the tapestry attempting to "Weave" a new pattern - altering reality. Spells were often called "Weavings" or "Weaves".

For sorcerers, things were different. They lacked the same understanding of magic as wizards do. They operate through gut and intuition. They're not "casting" spells they're "reaching with the power of their ancient blood", and "grabbing" hold of the "threads" of the Weave and through sheer force of will *imposing* the pattern they want to create - altering reality. This is an exhausting process, and spells for sorcerers are more like "tricks" they learn. They intuitively learn through trial and error that if they do X then Y happens, but probably can't explain what they did or how they did it. Sorcerous powers often manifest between the ages of eight and sixteen, especially during moments of great stress. Sorcerers are dangerous if they don't learn how to control their abilities, as they could inadvertently harm themselves or someone else. They need to rest after casting spells, either through meditation or sleep, because what they do is exhausting both mentally and physically.

Bard magic is a bit of a mix between the two. Bards have learned to manipulate the Weave in a similar way that wizards have, but they do so through dance, instruments, and song. Bard magic is less precise than that of a wizard, and is focused less on carefully "Weaving" the right threads of the pattern together and more on brute force like the sorcerer. So in that way the Bard has learned to use his force of will to manipulate the Weave much like the sorcerer. Like for the sorcerer, it is exhausting, and he must rest.

Psionics is also a bit of a mix between the two, but they have learned alternate methods of doing similar things. Instead of studying the tapestry of the Weave itself, Psions have turned inward. They focus on learning how to master their minds, and through intense discipline learn how to carefully impose their will upon the Weave. This is much less brute force like sorcerers, and even less brute force than bards. However, it is still not as precise and as careful as a wizard. Despite what some psions claim they access their power through the Weave as well. Like with sorcerers what they do causes them exhaustion and they need to rest.

Warlocks, Clerics, and other divine spell casters are different from those who practice arcane magic. They do not access their magic directly; they channel it instead. They make pacts with powerful beings who then grant them the ability to channel certain powers through them. The beings they serve limit the amount of power that they can channel each day, otherwise they run the risk of their servant drawing too much and causing them harm. Warlocks get this power through pledging service or making an agreement with this power. Clerics and Druids get this power through worshiping and serving the powers interest in the mortal world.

-------

One of the ways I "enhanced" the sorcerer was to make sure that people knew that it was VERY different from playing a wizard. This is mostly a focus on fluff.

"No, you're not 'casting' Magic Missile. You're drawing upon something deep inside yourself, and then reaching out to seize control of something that you can't quite see - only sense and feel. You're then ripping off a part of it - pure magical energy - and hurling it at your foe."

"But the spell says it has verbal and somatic components. Aren't I speaking in some arcane language and using precise hand gestures?"

"Absolutely not! There is nothing precise about what you do. You're standing there in the heat of the moment, and you're grabbing a hold of something - you have no real idea what it is... you just can sense and feel it there. You're grabbing this thing and you're hurling it at the goblin. You're not speaking in some arcane language, you're roaring with anger as you grab this stuff, or you're yelling an enraged battle cry - you feel more alive than you ever have before! - or maybe you're wailing in terror as you touch this - what the hell is it?! You're not using precise motions you're flailing with your arms as you yell out - trying to grab something you can't see - then you're hurling it at the goblin. You're not some stuffy ass wizard who grew up in some dusty old library, you have no idea what you're doing - this is all by the seat of your pants - it's exhilarating , it's terrifying, you're filled with a tremendous sense of power... think EMOTION! Think INTUITION! GUT INSTINCTS!

You're roaring with rage, trembling with the power you've pulled into your body, grasping upon -SOMETHING- and then HURLING it at the goblin. As you gesture at him malformed orbs of pure arcane energy emerge from your hands - ripping through the goblin's body. The creature howls in absolute agony, as one of your missiles hits him in the face and another in the stomach. The one that hit him in the face has seared his flesh as if he was struck by flame, his eye dangles from a socket as he whips his head back and forth in terror and pain. The one that struck him in the stomach has ripped open his flesh, and his insides are starting to spill out. The goblin glances down and panics instinctively grabbing his intestines as he falls to his knees. It is clear that he won't last long... he is going to bleed to death."

"I want to finish him off, can I finish him?"

"Yes."

"I want to cast acid splash in his face."

"You walk up to the goblin who is starting to cough up blood. He is clearly defenseless. As you get closer his one remaining eye widens with terror, it cries out something in a strange tongue, something you think is a plea for mercy. But still filled with the rush of battle, you step up to him, he leans back - his one good eye growing even wider. You reach for the power behind your site once more then **SEIZE** it, with another roar you thrust your hand toward the goblins face and an orb of acid emerges from your hand. The moment it strikes the beast there is a loud 'HISSSSSSS' as its flesh begins to melt, a sound which is rapidly drown out by the defenseless creature howling in pain. The howl quickly becomes a gurgling sound as the goblin collapses backwards, the good side of his face now completely melted - both eyes gone - the acid having melted his cheek as well and filled his mouth, which is now mixed with a froth of acid and blood. The gurgling soon ceases as well, the goblin twitches a few more times, and then is completely still.

As the adrenaline from the battle begins to fade, you're left feeling somewhat tired and exhausted... and confused. What the hell did you just do? How did you do it? You feel lightheaded and unsteady on your feet.

Okay, what do you do now? Do you get how this goes with sorcerers and how they're different from wizards?"

-------

Aside from fluff, I'd make up free feats for the PC that were relevant to their bloodline. I was never a stickler for balance, and always leaned more toward the "Rule of Cool" and the "Rule of Drama."

So for that reason, I'd always lean toward discouraging bloodlines that wouldn't result in some interesting problems. This pretty much rules out most benevolent fey and celestial types. My personal favorite are aberrations. So, let's say someone is playing a sorcerer with a beholder bloodline.

Maddening Whispers
Ahhh! They won't stop! No matter how hard you try the whispers at the back of your mind keep coming back. It's like having tiny little teeth gnawing on your brain - arrgh! It's hard to think! "Yes, I am perfect." "Wait?! Did I say that? No.. no... It was them, wasn't it? Gods! It's getting hard to tell the difference!"

Prerequisite: Level 3 Sorcerer. Little did you know when you first became aware of your "special" lineage and started walking down this path that it would have a price... but doesn't power always have a price? What's the loss of ones sanity compared to UNLIMITED POWER? Well, that's what the whispers seem to think, at least.

Benefits: Select a knowledge related skill. By listening to the maddening whispers you gain a +3 bonus on all checks involving that skill; this stacks with Skill Focus. The maddening whispers may drive you a little insane, but they seem to hold deep knowledge.

Special: The whispers seem to have a will of their own. You cannot control them. Yet, they have an intense effect on you. The whispers occasionally attempt to compel you to do things you would not otherwise do. Obeying the whispers is completely voluntary (resulting in you using your force of will to maintain your control and composure), but if you choose to obey you will be rewarded an agreed upon amount of Bonus XP.


I AM THE SYMBOL OF PERFECTION!
Pathetic fools! Why can't they see that you, and you alone are the symbol of perfection? You are what your race was meant to be! All others are inferior by far, does your power not prove that? What?! How dare that one look at you as if you were mad. You are not mad! "I'M NOT MAD!" Yes... saying it like that makes it true, doesn't it? Wait... did you say that out loud? Why is he running away?

Prerequisite: Level 5 Sorcerer (and every five levels thereafter)

Benefits: Select a sub-type of your race. From this point forward you view this sub-type as inferior to yourself, and you have trouble hiding your disdain for them. You receive a -3 penalty on your Bluff and Diplomacy checks. However, you receive a +3 to your Intimidation checks. Your disdain for them is also such that you can draw upon additional power when facing them in combat. You gain +1d4 bonus damage whenever you use your magic to deal damage to them in battle.

Special: Whenever you slay an individual of the selected sub-racial type, you develop a gnawing hunger. You have the urge to consume their flesh - raw and uncooked. Should you decide to give into this urge the penalties are erased and your bonus magic damage increases to +1d6 until the next time you rest.


Cannibalistic Tendencies
You never knew your own people (inferior as they are) could look so delicious... You're quite certain their livers would go well with some fava beans and a nice Tethyrian tanagluth.

Prerequisite: Level 6 Sorcerer

Benefits: You gain a +1 Charisma Bonus that lasts for one day if you consume the flesh of someone of your own race. This bonus increases to +2 if it is of a sub-race that you find inferior to yourself. The meat MUST be fresh - killed within the last week, at least.

Special: This bonus can be doubled if you consume the flesh raw. Thus a sub-race you find inferior grants a +4 bonus, and all others of your race grant a +2 bonus if their flesh is consumed raw.


You get the idea.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Aldrick

I think what's key to keeping the idea of the sorcerer separate from the wizard is that the source of their power comes from their blood. So, I think that the types of enhancements they receive should reflect that fact. And it's probably more than just tapping into their blood, but also HOW they tap into it and how it shapes them as a character.

I'd try not to have a sorcerer thinking that they're drawing from a wizard's spell list. For example, someone with an infernal bloodline isn't casting a fireball, they're drawing upon their blood and seizing upon the Weave to hurl a ball of pure Hellfire. Hell, if necessary I'll completely re-fluff a spell, and even make changes to its mechanics if necessary.

Rather than trying to create a universal mechanic, I'd instead just help the player customize their character in such a way that is awesome, cool, and relevant. I'd also listen to what they'd hope to accomplish.

So someone with a Fey bloodline, for example, I'd slowly have them tapping more and more into nature itself. I might even eventually open up some druid spells to them - or grant them some druid spells for free.

Here is an example...

Ensnared By Nature

Wherever you walk you can sense the plants around you. They are beginning to bend to your will in strange and unusual ways. Should you wish it, they will even defend you.

Prerequisite: Level 3 Sorcerer

Benefits: Once per day you gain the spell-like ability to call upon nearby plants to entangle your foes. This functions exactly as the spell Entangle.

---

With things like this, it's more interesting fluff wise for the character and the player. However, my style is - as I said - less about balance and mechanics and more about the "Rule of Cool" and the "Rule of Drama." And in the end it's about ensuring the player is having fun, and it adds something to the story (both for their character and the collaborative narrative).

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hyperion

Indeed Shade could work well too. It also match the timeline as it came with 3ed and sorcerers.

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Originally posted by Hyperion

Thanks Wooly Rupert too. You're right Shandril and Midnight were not wild mages, what I meant is that, reading the novels, it seems that after their change (even if in quite different situations) they seem to cast spell in a manner vaguely similar to sorcerers.
Shandril has 2ed stats in Hall of Heroes. There are also special rules for Spellfire on page 49.
Midnight has stats too but before she changed and was able to cast spells without a book. These two however are indeed unique situations.

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Originally posted by Korginard

I think it may be a matter of how one uses the term Sorcerer. In 2nd Edition, I think Sorcerer was just another name for a Wizard. The Symbul was termed a Sorceress perhaps simply because it sounded better than Wizardess. At that point I believe the names were interchangeable and simply a matter of style and choice.
This did indeed become confusing in 3rd edition when Sorcerers became a separate class unto themselves.
In Game terms, the difference between Wizard and Sorcerer is the way in which they gain their magic. Wizards Study, and sorcerers are born with a nack for casting magic. Many systems (like pathfinder) suggest that sorcerers gain thier magic from thier bloodlines. For example a Sorcerer might be descended from a Dragon, Devil, Genie, or other powerful creature.
Adding to that, a Warlock is a caster who gains power thru an agreement with a powerful outsider, a Devil, A Fae Monarch, or an Unknown Elder God. (Sure I'll sign there Mr. Cthulhu, what could possibly go wrong?)
As for when the actual change occurred and sorcerers first appeared?
One easy answer is that they always have been around, and it's only recently that common folk have begun to understand the differences.
Another possibility is that magic was changed after the Time of Troubles, causing spell casters to begin to gain and use magic differently.

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