| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Diffan |
Posted - 08 Jan 2015 : 21:21:16
Hello all!
So for a while I had wanted to play an Avenger (4E, PH2 class) style character in a v3.5 game. Now my first thought was to just play a Cleric or multiclass Fighter/Cleric (or Crusader/Cleric) or heck even a reflavored Paladin that was "Avenger-ish" but I didn't think any of those options did the class significant justice. Now that's not to say that none of those options were bad, but personally they were just to fiddly with BAB and spells and Domains and yadda-yadda for me to think that it was anything else but a multiclass Fighter/Cleric mis-mash. Which gave me the idea to just create my own Avenger.
Now I"m not a fan of just creating homebrew base classes wholesale because, honestly, their either overly powerful to the point of brokeness OR they're way underpowered to the point that I'm better off just making my Ftr/Clr. This brought me to the base class Duskblade (PH2) in which it's a natural "gish" between Fighting and Arcane spellcaster. I though, if I tweak some features but overall keep things similar but instead use Wisdom for the casting and divine spells, it should work out fine. Which is what I'm presenting today. SO here's my v3.5 Homebrew Avenger, based off of the 4E class on a Duskblade chassis. Enjoy!
AVENGER
Hit Die: d8
Skill Points: 4 + Int modifier (x4 at 1st level)
Class Skills (and the ability their associated with): Balance* (Dex), Climb* (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Hide* (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump* (Str), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently* (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Swim* (Str), and Tumble* (Dex).
Skills noted with an * are subject to armor check penalties, double for the Swim skill.
Class Features:
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Avengers are proficient with all martial melee weapons and all simple weapons, as well as all light armors.
Spells: You cast divine spells, which are drawn from the Avenger spell list. You can cast any spell you know without preparing it ahead of time.
To learn or cast a spell, you must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level (Wis 10 for 0-level spells, Wis 11 for 1st-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against your spell is 10 + the spell level + your Wis modifier.
You can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Your base daily spell allotment is given on Table 1-1. In addition, you receive bonus spells per day if you have a high enough Wisdom score (see Table 1-1: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells, page 8 of the Player’s Handbook).
Spells Known: You begin play knowing two 0 level and two 1st-level spells, chosen from the avenger spell list. You also know one additional 0-level spell for each point of Wisdom bonus you have. Each time you gain a new class level, you learn one additional spell of any level you can cast, chosen from the avenger spell list.
Upon reaching 5th level, and at every subsequent odd-numbered level, you can choose to learn a new spell in place of one you already know. In effect, you lose access to the old spell in exchange for gaining a new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least one level lower than the highest-level spell you can cast. You can swap only a single spell at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that you gain new spells known for the level.
Divine Expression (Sp): You can use the spell-like powers create water, detect magic, guidance, light, and purify food and drink a combined total of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier. These spell-like powers do not count against your total of spells known or spells per day.
Faith’s Shield (Su): As the arm of vengeance for your deity, you leave little room for such things as defense, thus your non-proficiency with shields. However your faith in your purpose to carry out thy deity’s cause gives you a shield-like protection. Starting at 1st level, so long as you are not using a shield and wearing light or no armor, you gain a +2 shield bonus to your AC as long as you remain conscious. This bonus only apples to your AC and not to your flat-footed or touch AC. Feats that work in conjunction with shields do not affect this supernatural ability.
At 4th level, this bonus is also applied to your flat-footed AC bonus.
At 7t level, this bonus increases to +4.
Domain Spells: At 2nd level you can choose one domain associated with your chosen patron. This selection adds the domain’s spells to your known spell-list at the appropriate levels listed. It does not, however, confer the special benefit listed with the domain.
At 8th level, you may choose a second domain.
Oath of Enmity (Su): At 3rd level, you can choose one enemy within 50-ft. of you that you can see. When you make a melee attack against that enemy and the target is the only enemy adjacent to you, you make two attack rolls and use either result. This effect lasts until the end of the battle or until the target drops to 0 hit points, at which point you regain the use of this ability. If any other effect lets you roll twice and use the higher result when making a single attack roll, this power has no effect on that attack. If an effect forces you to roll twice and use the lower result when making an attack roll, this ability has no effect on that attack either.
At 13th level you may add your Wisdom modifier on any damage rolls you make while using your Oath of Enmity ability. In addition, this feature can be used against one additional target.
Swift Prayer: Beginning at 5th level, you can cast one spell each day as a swift action, so long as the casting time of the spell is 1 standard action or less. You can use this ability twice per day at 10th level, three times per day at 15th, and four times per day at 20th level.
Spell Power (Ex): Starting at 6th level, you can more easily overcome the spell resistance of any opponent you successfully injure with a melee attack. If you have injured an opponent with a melee attack, you gain a +2 bonus to your caster level check to overcome spell resistance for the remainder of the encounter. This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level, +4 at 16th level, and +5 at 18th level.
AVENGER TABLE 1:1
Base
Attack
Level Bonus Fort Ref Will Special
1st +1 +0 +2 +2 Divine Expressioin, Faith’s Shield
2nd +2 +0 +3 +3 Faith’s Domain
3rd +3 +1 +3 +3 Oath of Enmity
4th +4 +1 +4 +4 Faith’s Shield (flat-footed)
5th +5 +1 +4 +4 Swift Prayer 1/day
6th +6/+1 +2 +5 +5 Spell Power +2
7th +7/+2 +2 +5 +5 Faith’s Shield (+4)
8th +8/+3 +2 +6 +6 Faith’s Domain (2nd)
9th +9/+4 +3 +6 +6
10th +10/+5 +3 +7 +7 Swift Prayer 2/day
11th +11/+6/+1 +3 +7 +7 Spell Power +3
12th +12/+7/+2 +4 +8 +8
13th +13/+8/+3 +4 +8 +8 Improved Oath of Enmity
14th +14/+9/+4 +4 +9 +9
15th +15/+10/+5 +5 +9 +9 Swift Prayer 3/day
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +5 +10 +10 Spell Power +4
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Spell Power +5
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Swift Prayer 4/day
AVENGER SPELL PROGRESSION TABLE 1:2
Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
1st 3 2 -- -- -- --
2nd 4 3 -- -- -- --
3rd 5 4 -- -- -- --
4th 6 5 -- -- -- --
5th 6 6 2 -- -- --
6th 6 6 3 -- -- --
7th 6 6 4 -- -- --
8th 6 6 5 2 -- --
9th 6 6 6 3 -- --
10th 6 6 6 4 -- --
11th 6 6 6 5 -- --
12th 6 6 6 6 2 --
13th 6 6 6 6 3 --
14th 6 6 6 6 4 --
15th 6 6 6 6 5 --
16th 6 6 6 6 6 2
17th 6 6 6 6 6 3
18th 6 6 6 6 6 4
19th 6 6 6 6 6 5
20th 6 6 6 6 6 6
SPELL LIST
0: cure minor wounds, disrupt undead, fleeting fame, inflict minor wounds, resistance, virtue
1st: bane, blade of blood, bless, cause fear, command, cure light wounds, divine favor, doom, guiding light, inflict light wounds, lesser vigor, light of Lunia, magic weapon, obscuring mist, remove fear, rhino’s rush, updraft.
2nd: aid, bull’s strength, cure moderate wounds, darkness, darkway, deific vengeance, dimension hop, eagle’s splendor, hold person, inflict moderate wounds, light of Mercuria, owl’s wisdom, remove paralysis, silence, sound burst, spiritual weapon, swift fly, veil of shadow, zone of truth.
3rd: bestow curse, cure serious wounds, darkfire, daylight, footsteps of the divine, inflict serious wounds, invisibility purge, knight’s move, light of Venya, prayer, protection from energy, ring of blades, searing light, vigor
4th: air walk, castigate, cure critical wounds, dispel magic, dimensional anchor, discern lies, divine power, inflict critical wounds, sound lance, spell immunity
5th:blade barrier, break enchantment, flame strike, greater command, righteous wrath of the faithful, slay living, spell resistance, true seeing
Critique, criticism, and suggestions welcome. |
| 5 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Diffan |
Posted - 09 Jan 2015 : 15:55:17
i had removed the limitation on Oath of Enmity from 1 attack per turn to any/all attacks per turn. Apparently I even had the change in the file on my phone but never made it on the desktop.
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| Diffan |
Posted - 09 Jan 2015 : 06:17:07
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The 'scaling powers' feels a bit 4e-ish to me, but I suppose that was the idea.
In 3e, you normally would take 'imroved' versions of Feats to get that effect. Still, nothing wrong with one class behaving mechanically different then most others (which is very reminiscent of 1e).
Hm, I'm not entirely sure which ones you're referring to? The Spell Power +1 through +5 is the same feature the Duskblade gets at the same levels. The same is true with Swift Prayer (except the Duskblade is swift cast or something like that) at the same levels as well. Faith's Shield is similar to the Duskblade's advanced proficiency with medium armor and then with heavy shields later on though Faith's Shield is less powerful since it can't be buffed with magical bonuses like a Duskblade can find/buy. The only thing that seems to get a bump is Improved Oath of Enmity, which is just some extra damage on top + the ability to target two people with it instead of 1.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Personally, I am more of a 'less classes with more options' kind of guy, then a 'zillion highly specific classes' kind of guy, but thats just me. For example, you could have just swapped-out the Paladin's mount for the shield ability and it may have been fine (they have some sort of 'smite' already, which would work the same as an extra attack in most cases, averaged out). In other words, if you have an ability that deals double damage to a chosen enemy, rather then grants an extra attack, its just as good, if not better, in the long run.
Plus, I thought 3e had a 'Holy Avenger' PrC somewhere? Its been so long since I played a 3e game...
Oh I don't disagree with you. The Avenger could have been reflavored and done a multitude of different way, foremost in my mind was Crusader/Cleric (Wrath, Destruction domains) and then Prestige Class into the Ruby Knight Vindicator for some extra swift-casting + turn undead brokeness. But like I said, it just won't feel like a 4E-style Avenger. It would feel and play and be like a multiclass amalgam of stuff slapped together for mechanics purposes only. Not that it's bad, I just get bored rather quickly with the LEGO effect of 3rd Edition. I wanted something simple, 1 thru 20 levels that I could just grab and go and not have to worry about the fiddly bits. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 09 Jan 2015 : 00:37:47
The 'scaling powers' feels a bit 4e-ish to me, but I suppose that was the idea.
In 3e, you normally would take 'imroved' versions of Feats to get that effect. Still, nothing wrong with one class behaving mechanically different then most others (which is very reminiscent of 1e).
Personally, I am more of a 'less classes with more options' kind of guy, then a 'zillion highly specific classes' kind of guy, but thats just me. For example, you could have just swapped-out the Paladin's mount for the shield ability and it may have been fine (they have some sort of 'smite' already, which would work the same as an extra attack in most cases, averaged out). In other words, if you have an ability that deals double damage to a chosen enemy, rather then grants an extra attack, its just as good, if not better, in the long run.
Plus, I thought 3e had a 'Holy Avenger' PrC somewhere? Its been so long since I played a 3e game... |
| Diffan |
Posted - 09 Jan 2015 : 00:10:46
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Divine Expression (Sp): You can use the spell-like powers create water, detect magic, guidance, light, and purify food and drink
Why? When wen't avengers from being excecutioners of a deity's wrath to spreading a deity's grace by feeding the hungry? I don't see how this thematically fits with avengers.
I saw it as a completely self-serving feature. Considering that avengers are mostly on the road, travelling to serve their church/order/deity it would seem important to stay fed, especially if their in hostile territory where it's unlikely they'll find easy food and lodging. And on that same note, why spells like purify food and water would come up. If their job is to take out a Zhentarim Banite in Darkhold, there's a good chance they could be poisoned there.
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
Other than that I am not sure whether OoE translates that nicely into 3.x when it's limited to only one attack? I mean in 4e everyone was supposed to only get one attack per round and better make it count (until they released the plethora of way to multiattack) and yet it OoE still work on every attack.
In my experience with 3e the most significant attack was always the first one because and it's mostly due to the amount of effort put into überchargers and things like pounce. But I can re-write Oath of Enmity for this edition to work with every attack, including the full-attack action.
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
With the importance of full attack in 3.x I think this version is on the weak side of things
And if I change it so that it works in conjunction with full-attack? That might make it unwieldy but no more difficult than 5e's Advantage for any Fighter with multiple attacks and Action Surge.
Also, thank you for your response and critique. |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 08 Jan 2015 : 22:04:03
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Divine Expression (Sp): You can use the spell-like powers create water, detect magic, guidance, light, and purify food and drink
Why? When wen't avengers from being excecutioners of a deity's wrath to spreading a deity's grace by feeding the hungry? I don't see how this thematically fits with avengers.
Other than that I am not sure whether OoE translates that nicely into 3.x when it's limited to only one attack? I mean in 4e everyone was supposed to only get one attack per round and better make it count (until they released the plethora of way to multiattack) and yet it OoE still work on every attack.
With the importance of full attack in 3.x I think this version is on the weak side of things |
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