| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| unseenmage |
Posted - 02 Dec 2014 : 01:09:40
I'm looking for canon examples of simulacrums, clones, and mirror duplicated who've shed their magically imposed limitations and become free-willed people capable of becoming more powerful unique individuals.
Discussion of how these plot based methods translate into D&D 3.x and/or Pathfinder more than welcome as well, though not necessary. |
| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 04 Dec 2014 : 12:13:02
just a thought here, not a canon example.... what about a sentient illusion that develops multiple personality disorder? They could actually change shape between their different personalities. Hell, they may even hold actual conversations with themselves. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 04 Dec 2014 : 11:58:24
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, there is the most obvious example: Alias and her sisters.
Yes. She was a customized construct based on a clone, however.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Just to expand this conversation, what about constructs in general that have gone beyond their programming. For instance, I know there are some free-willed helmed horrors roaming about, etc...
Helmed horrors are driven by someone's spirit (prisoners, volunteers, noncorporeal undead and anything in between). If there are no working magical controls or they are circumvented, it's free-willed, that's all.
Speaking of lifeforce transfer, there was also Minder in FR comics - a dwarven warrior working for a Halruaan wizard. She came into possession of an iron golem's body after her own was too damaged to make it. One of the golems which clobbered the team, at that.
And long before that, one of the Magisters used to walk around in golem bodies.
Homunculi - IIRC that was in some article on them: if the master is petrified or leaves the same plane, link with the humunculus does not break (killing it outright), but is blocked. After a week, lifeforce leaks enough that the homunculus gets system shock roll or takes damage, which won't recover until the link is either restored or lost. If it survives 8 weeks of this, its link is gone - it's free-willed and regenerates HP normally.
Of course, it was created as copy of a wizard's mind to begin with, so it shares the personality (including alignment) and skills thereof, and knows well what it does best, so free-willed ones often end up as assistants to other like-minded wizards. |
| Sylrae |
Posted - 03 Dec 2014 : 18:54:47
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
Manshoon is the first one I think of. He had many, many clones.
The latest Forging article is about him too, located here: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/manshoon-manyfaced
Very interesting article. Gives me a much increased interest in Manshoon.
How exactly did all of his clones awaken as independent entities? |
| Korginard |
Posted - 03 Dec 2014 : 17:17:09
Minder from the Forgotten Realms comic was a dwarven woman who's spirit was placed within a Golem when her physical body died. I would be easy to assume others could be "reincarnated" in similar ways by placing thier spirit into some kind of construct. I guess it's not quite an example of a construct becoming sentient, as the sentience is placed within it rather than it devloping somehow.
I was actually reading an old book on Artifacts last night and it occurs to me that The Apparatus might be an interesting way of placing a different personality into a simulacrum. A scary, crazy, convoluted way.. but interesting nonetheless..
As for sentient illusions, I've often thought it would be fun for an illusionist to develop a method similar to becoming a Lich that transforms them into a spectral form of undead. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 03 Dec 2014 : 13:07:38
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Has anyone ever seen any 3.5e game mechanics to have a simulacrum have a different personality than the creator? (Particularly an alignment shift.)
--Eric
Theoretically, a helm of opposite alignment could cause such. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 02 Dec 2014 : 23:30:45
One of the characters in some old FR novel - Pools of Darkness, perhaps? - was, in fact, both a sapient illusion and an accomplished illusionist.
2E simulacra imbued with living force (through reincarnation) and with sentience (through a properly worded limited wish) will duplicate some portion of the original's personality and capabilities. And they might often also possess capacities and quirks which differ somewhat from the original. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Dec 2014 : 19:15:32
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Has anyone ever seen any 3.5e game mechanics to have a simulacrum have a different personality than the creator? (Particularly an alignment shift.)
--Eric
Not that I recall, but there was a third party book called Encyclopaedia Arcane: Constructs that had some nifty rules. It was 3E, though, not 3.5.
It did allow for creation of simulacra and other constructs from the ground up, so I'd assume differing alignments would be possible. |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 02 Dec 2014 : 17:21:13
Lisa Smedman wrote a tale in the Realms of Shadow anthology about an agent of arcanist Shadow whose shadow double was put on trial. I forget the details though. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 02 Dec 2014 : 15:45:02
Has anyone ever seen any 3.5e game mechanics to have a simulacrum have a different personality than the creator? (Particularly an alignment shift.)
--Eric |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Dec 2014 : 15:16:18
There's Argus the helmed horror, but I don't think the story of his freedom has been published anywhere -- there's precious little info on him, in general.
There's also Squch the scaladar, in Undermountain.
And of course Minder, from the old DC/TSR comic series Forgotten Realms.
The Realmsified warforged I came up with are also free-willed constructs. One flavor, livegolems, are pretty much just reskinned warforged, except they are animated by slain warriors. Another flavor, the elfbane golems, are similar, but animated by the corrupted spirits of forest critters like fae. Only one of them is free-willed, though, something that is irksome to their creator. The last flavor, the eidelar, are former mortal psionicists who sought immortality in the form of animated crystalline constructs. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 02 Dec 2014 : 15:05:19
There was a 'living illusion' - an advanced illusion of a person that became self-aware.
I think it was in one of those 'pool of..." books.
The only other thing I can recall from the book was a small island used for banishment off the coast of Evermeet (because when a novel isn't that great, I tend to only recall the geographic info).
It was probably Pool of Twilight - I just looked them up and thats the only cover that looks familiar. |
| unseenmage |
Posted - 02 Dec 2014 : 13:38:02
Those are definitely of interest to me as well.
Pretty much any given Pinocchio story will do. I'm curious about all the ways that these artificial creatures have gained their freedom/individuality. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 02 Dec 2014 : 12:35:13
Just to expand this conversation, what about constructs in general that have gone beyond their programming. For instance, I know there are some free-willed helmed horrors roaming about, etc... |
| unseenmage |
Posted - 02 Dec 2014 : 07:39:12
I seem to remember some ritual or another that allowed a female villain's Simulacrum to become real.
I believe it was part of an adventure module but cannot remember.
Edit: Turns out this is in the adventure module "Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk".
I'm told that the main villain, the simulacrum of Iggwilv, tries to become the real deal by absorbing the powers of some gods. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Dec 2014 : 04:39:13
Well, there is the most obvious example: Alias and her sisters. |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 02 Dec 2014 : 03:11:11
Manshoon is the first one I think of. He had many, many clones.
The latest Forging article is about him too, located here: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/manshoon-manyfaced
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