| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| jordanz |
Posted - 29 Nov 2014 : 17:48:08
Has this ever happened in the history of the realms? It seems like even the best mortal warriors of the realms would be hard pressed to defeat a Balor like Erttu solo, but a Demon Prince, even a minor one would seem to be an exponentially greater challenge. |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 01 Dec 2014 : 22:23:22
"they took down D&D Tools' website"
Bummer! |
| Shemmy |
Posted - 01 Dec 2014 : 19:03:02
With very slender exception, it shouldn't ever happen. An ant doesn't solo a giant unless under very singularly spectacular circumstances. Basically unless you're a god or another archfiend, it simply isn't possible, and even then it's a question of where the fight is happening.
When it does happen, something odd is happening, be it an artifact, divine support, etc. I suspect that Mephistopheles wouldn't have any issue with a demigod while on his own layer of the Hells unless Asmodeus wished for the outcome that happened.
It's also worth noting that there are different classes (for lack of a better word) of archfiends - those in control of a planar layer (Demogorgon as an example) and those without (Malkazid for instance, or various Dukes of Hell that aren't Lords of the 9). The latter are within the scope of defeat by exceptional mortals, while the former aren't by the scope of most planar D&D lore on the topic.
And yes, Kiaransalee was a deity when she killed Orcus (they both were). |
| Alamadaeo |
Posted - 01 Dec 2014 : 15:27:55
Having only been able to find a very small amount of information on this property via a quick google search (I haven't the foggiest idea of which source this property is located in, and they took down D&D Tools' website) they look like they're pretty much the same property with a different name. A "Dread" weapon is essentially the epic version of a "Bane" weapon. |
| jordanz |
Posted - 01 Dec 2014 : 07:26:14
quote:
Originally posted by Alamadaeo
Yes, Epic levels would be a must, as well as an Evil Outsider Bane weapon (Or a Dread weapon from Epic Level Handbook, as well as some glorious armour, say from Book of Exalted Deeds as well as Epic Level Handbook). I'd love to DM that fight! 
Does Foebane qualify as an "Evil Outsider Bane weapon"? |
| Alamadaeo |
Posted - 01 Dec 2014 : 05:44:20
Yes, Epic levels would be a must, as well as an Evil Outsider Bane weapon (Or a Dread weapon from Epic Level Handbook, as well as some glorious armour, say from Book of Exalted Deeds as well as Epic Level Handbook). I'd love to DM that fight! |
| jordanz |
Posted - 01 Dec 2014 : 00:27:10
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
The Trio Nefarious were greater nycaloths and, though powerful, were not on par with an archfiend. Gareth Dragonsbane did take on Orcus and an avatar of Tiamat back when she was still an archfiend - though he had his party to back him up.
Did Kiaransalee also beat Orcus when she was still mortal or had she already become a demigod?
We could see the difference when Fflar Starbrow took on Malkizid (a true banished archfiend). He ambushed Malkizid and still got starched, as did the epic wizard Araevin and the epic priest of Corellon (forgot his name).
I believe that Kiaransalee was a god when she defeated Orcus. Riven also punked Mephistopheles, in his own layer of the Hells, but he was already a demigod by that point.
The only mortals who could solo an archfiend would be Szass Tam level wizards or Cadderly level clerics.
I think one of the issues is that there doesn't seem to be any true epic levels fighter in the realms. There are several on the doorstep though..
I think a truly epic level paladin (like Gareth) with a very close relationship with his deity might stand a chance against a lesser archfiend (Not an Orcus or Demo gorgon type) on neutral ground...
|
| Lilianviaten |
Posted - 30 Nov 2014 : 21:04:33
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
The Trio Nefarious were greater nycaloths and, though powerful, were not on par with an archfiend. Gareth Dragonsbane did take on Orcus and an avatar of Tiamat back when she was still an archfiend - though he had his party to back him up.
Did Kiaransalee also beat Orcus when she was still mortal or had she already become a demigod?
We could see the difference when Fflar Starbrow took on Malkizid (a true banished archfiend). He ambushed Malkizid and still got starched, as did the epic wizard Araevin and the epic priest of Corellon (forgot his name).
I believe that Kiaransalee was a god when she defeated Orcus. Riven also punked Mephistopheles, in his own layer of the Hells, but he was already a demigod by that point.
The only mortals who could solo an archfiend would be Szass Tam level wizards or Cadderly level clerics. |
| jordanz |
Posted - 30 Nov 2014 : 05:20:44
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Fflar Starbrow Melruth managed to slay a 'a dozen' nycoloths, but was stopped by the demonic warlord Aulmpiter who was banished in turn.
Yep this is the closest I can fathom that doesn't quite reach the parameters.
|
| jordanz |
Posted - 30 Nov 2014 : 05:18:04
quote:
Originally posted by Alamadaeo
Well, as far as game mechanics go, I would assume that the greater challenge is the point! 
I throw class levels on my Balors and Pit Fiends sometimes to represent their superior nature, but to answer your question;
SPOILER ALERT:
The Simbul, in Elminster in Hell, defeated an Archdevil to rescue Elminster. As far as I know The Simbul, though mighty, is still mortal in that she can be defeated/killed - even though she is the chosen of a goddess.
Though The Simbul is an Archmage of dreadful power and not a sword-swinger. I don't know if that helps you out any now that I think about it haha, but I hope I did a little!
Yep thanks, I remember that but I'm looking for sword swingers. I'm thinking it would take an Epic level fighter with some minor artifact level weapons/Armor (and some luck!) to do the trick. |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 29 Nov 2014 : 21:24:06
The Trio Nefarious were greater nycaloths and, though powerful, were not on par with an archfiend. Gareth Dragonsbane did take on Orcus and an avatar of Tiamat back when she was still an archfiend - though he had his party to back him up.
Did Kiaransalee also beat Orcus when she was still mortal or had she already become a demigod? |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 29 Nov 2014 : 18:51:21
Fflar Starbrow Melruth managed to slay a 'a dozen' nycoloths, but was stopped by the demonic warlord Aulmpiter who was banished in turn. |
| Alamadaeo |
Posted - 29 Nov 2014 : 18:12:59
Well, as far as game mechanics go, I would assume that the greater challenge is the point!
I throw class levels on my Balors and Pit Fiends sometimes to represent their superior nature, but to answer your question;
SPOILER ALERT:
The Simbul, in Elminster in Hell, defeated an Archdevil to rescue Elminster. As far as I know The Simbul, though mighty, is still mortal in that she can be defeated/killed - even though she is the chosen of a goddess.
Though The Simbul is an Archmage of dreadful power and not a sword-swinger. I don't know if that helps you out any now that I think about it haha, but I hope I did a little! |
