| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 23 Aug 2014 : 21:08:09
I want to first say that I've had my players handbook for barely a day so far, and I worked yesterday. I am still going through the classes (up to cleric) and skipped ahead to the multi-class section a bit to get an idea of how it works. I also see that feats are an optional ruling that you would give up a +2 ability score improvement every 4th lvl in a class in order. So far, I can see where the basic idea of a fighter/wizard would work, but not say a cleric/wizard. The reason for this is you have only one list of spell slots, and your spellcaster level is driven by you actual character level in your class. So, a wizard 10th/priest 3rd is only able to memorize 2nd lvl priest spells in the slot.
So, I was thinking, what's the quickest way to fix this (and maybe someone saw something like this in 4e). The first idea that comes to mind is simply a feat called "minor theurgy" which would require you to have spells known or prepared of at least 2nd lvl in two classes. Then state that the feat raises the character for spells known or prepared as if he were 5 levels higher in a specified class (up to max character level). Thus, a wizard 4 / cleric 3 chooses to take this feat and puts it in cleric. He could then memorize spells as a 4th lvl wizard or 7th lvl cleric. He then continues advancing wizard to 8th lvl and cleric to 4th, and he takes the "minor theurgy" feat with his wizard and "theurgy" with his cleric (which maybe improved from +5 to +10 for his cleric class), and he's now 12th/12th in both classes (but he's now +6 ability score bonuses behind). He continues advancing wizard to say 16th wizard and cleric 4th, and he spends no more feats, and he's now a 20th lvl wizard caster and a cleric 12th (or it might be better to go 13th lvl wizard and cleric 7th for a 17th level spells prepared in wizard and 15th lvl spells prepared in cleric).
One caveat that might be done is maybe the theurgy feat only apply to whatever class you were leveling whenever you got the feat (i.e. leveling cleric... it applies to cleric spellcasting). Also, having appropriate ability scores may play against this kind of build (such that you will probably have to use some of those ability score improvements). I could also see this feat being part of say a magic domain, to encourage gods of magic to have priest/mages (say replacing the divine strike ability).
There might be similar feats that build off these that simply improve the number of spell slots you get. Granted, you won't have a lot of feats to spare, so this would be for someone truly looking for this kind of build.
While I specifically list priest mages, this structure would seem to work for all classes (thus bard/wizards, sorcerer/bards, druid/clerics, bard/druids, bard/clerics, wizard/druids, etc....). |
| 6 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 26 Aug 2014 : 01:00:19
quote:
Originally posted by see
Note that the lack of higher-level spells doesn't stop you from casting a lower-level spell in one of those slots . . . and one of the things about how 5th works is that many spells are written so they're more effective when used in a higher-level slot (as opposed to automatically scaling with level). For example, a 17th-level cleric can use the first-level spell cure wounds in a slot of any level, healing 1d8-9d8 depending on the level of the slot used. A Cleric (1-16)/Wizard (16-1) can also use the first-level spell cure wounds in a slot of any level, healing 1d8-9d8. So it's not nearly as much a nerf in spell power as it would have been in AD&D or 3.X to only have lower-level spells to cast in higher-level slots.
ahh, very good point. I haven't yet gotten to the actual spells yet, but I did note that it sounded like they were taking notes from that alternate player's handbook (forget who wrote it) where you could use lower level spells in higher slots and have increased effects (which made sorcerors more viable).
You know, I think I'm going to start another topic for "improvements" people have seen in 5th edition. |
| see |
Posted - 25 Aug 2014 : 02:52:44
Note that the lack of higher-level spells doesn't stop you from casting a lower-level spell in one of those slots . . . and one of the things about how 5th works is that many spells are written so they're more effective when used in a higher-level slot (as opposed to automatically scaling with level). For example, a 17th-level cleric can use the first-level spell cure wounds in a slot of any level, healing 1d8-9d8 depending on the level of the slot used. A Cleric (1-16)/Wizard (16-1) can also use the first-level spell cure wounds in a slot of any level, healing 1d8-9d8. So it's not nearly as much a nerf in spell power as it would have been in AD&D or 3.X to only have lower-level spells to cast in higher-level slots. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 24 Aug 2014 : 18:53:16
well, so far, other than some options being gone (like theurging), I will say that I'm intrigued by the general changes so far. For instance, the idea of advantage and disadvantage would really make a difference in some situations. Also, the various different archetypes (for instance 3 types of paladins whose oaths are different) are at least something worth reading. I'm not saying I'm on board, but I am saying that I'm not immediately turned off like I was with 4e. How the proficiency bonus plays into things may be the big difference, but I've yet to go that far. Of course, I'm also expecting the DMG to introduce some new stuff as well. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 24 Aug 2014 : 01:46:31
I haven't bought it but I have thumbed through it. I'll return to my local store on Monday (when I'm off) and read through it. But to be honest I wasn't impressed by the rules that I saw at all. I'll likely pass 5e by altogether unless folks start pointing out things that I like. I'm more concerned with the changes to the Realms anyway. |
| Akantor |
Posted - 23 Aug 2014 : 22:35:08
Interesting. Specially if I ever convert my 3.5 Wiz5/Clc3/MysticTheuge6/MysticWander1  (which is my favorite <3) |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 23 Aug 2014 : 22:26:02
Whoops, can't even do basic math straight today. I should have said 12th wizard and 8th cleric for a 17th lvl spells prepared in wizard and 18th lvl for spells prepared in cleric. Alternatively the +5 bonus in levels could be reduced to +4 (thus in this same situation, the mage priest would be at 16th/16th if he's only spent 3 feats on theurging (minor and normal theurgy for cleric and minor theurgy for the wizard) or 20th/16th if he's spent 4 feats on theurging (minor and normal in each class).
I'm also thinking that the normal theurgy feat might also come with bonus lower level spells (say 1 bonus spell per spell level you can cast except for your 3 highest level spell slots, to be assigned specifically to the class for which normal theurgy was taken). Thus, in the example given where someone went 12th/8th and bought 4 theurgy feats, he gets a bonus spell as a cleric for 1st-5th lvl spells and as a wizard for 1st-6th lvl spells.
Anyway, was just trying to see some way to have mechanics to allow some of the playstyles some may be familiar with while still keeping the rough balance.
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