| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Mournblade |
Posted - 01 Apr 2014 : 15:21:44
I am obsessed with perspective.
I am using Longitude and Latitude as our modern convenience only, I realize it is not done in the realms. (or is it?)
Does anyone (Markustay) know if there has ever been an official 'equator' of the realms, and if so its location?
The only source for these convenient lines I have found seems to be in the Faiths and Avatars from 2e of all sources but I am not sure these lines were made with any thought. They seem far to sparce, and anyway there is no 0 degrees listed.
Is the globe of Toril the same size as Earth? If so since the realms have 24 hour days the latitude and longitude lines are easy to calculate (15 degrees an hour) but a reference point is still needed.
If there is a source for Longitude and Latitude of the realms that would be great, but at the very least does anyone know if there is an official stance as to where an equator equivalent would be located?
It is easy to speculate, but I am wondering if there is anything official.
(Yes I know the Jungles would be located at the hottest part and I can extrapolate all of that, I am wondering if there has been an official ED GREENWOOD or TSR/WOTC proclamation on the matter) |
| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 08 Apr 2014 : 23:46:27
-A lot going on there, and the lack of color doesn't exactly help. Don't really see too much different, if anything- Halruaa being a place is the biggest thing, I guess, but it being on the map doesn't actually mean that Halruaa exists as it did. |
| Mournblade |
Posted - 08 Apr 2014 : 14:37:21
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If you like Nyambe-as-Katashaka, then I suggest you might find my one Candlekeep compendium article interesting, which contains a map of an island chain just off the coast of Katashaka, and is designed specifically with merging Nyambe with The Realms in mind (merging the lore together, what little needed to be done - there are colonies from Zakhara and Kara-Tur there, along with a portal that leads to Brightstar Lake, which covers the Egypt-like culture).
It was in Candlekeep Compendium IX.
Many thanks again!
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| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Apr 2014 : 19:29:06
The only 'sneak peak' we may have is this map from RAS's The Companions novel. However, that's pre-(2nd)Sundering, so everything might yet change again.
Note, its just a prettier B&W version of the 4e map, and it has been alluded to (by many, including Ed) that 'big changes are in store' and that the 5e Realms will have that 'Old Realms feel'.
Whatever all of that means - there are lots of theories. Whatever they do, though, its going to be the 4e world with a slightly moved-forward timeline, and some old things will be returning (presumably from their vacation on Abeir). However, none of the 4e stuff will be gotten rid of, including the new versions of Dragonborn, Tielfings, and Genasi.
Actually, Here is an even better resolution of that beautiful Mike Schley map. Not the world we fell in love with, but lightyears away from that hideous map they released for 4e.
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| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 04 Apr 2014 : 02:43:40
-What changes to the map have been proposed/leaked for 5e? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Apr 2014 : 16:12:38
If you like Nyambe-as-Katashaka, then I suggest you might find my one Candlekeep compendium article interesting, which contains a map of an island chain just off the coast of Katashaka, and is designed specifically with merging Nyambe with The Realms in mind (merging the lore together, what little needed to be done - there are colonies from Zakhara and Kara-Tur there, along with a portal that leads to Brightstar Lake, which covers the Egypt-like culture).
It was in Candlekeep Compendium IX. |
| Mournblade |
Posted - 03 Apr 2014 : 13:07:43
Yes, I looked at the galleries on Deviant art and I found many many of them useful. My interactive atlas won't work anymore and I don't feel the need to buy a new one on EBAY because the work Markustay does serves my purpose.
What I like about Ixios is that it is not juxtaposed. You developed an island already there.
I have been very interested in the African subcontinent for some time so I got a hold of the Nbaye 3rd edition ruleset and I am placing it on Katashaka. It won't violate any cannon at all.
One disappointment I have with WOTC after 3rd edition is they really did not pay attention to geography enough. The 4e map was a severe disappointment,and the Sundering maps have only been sketches. The best map I think they made was the updated Moonshae map for Dragon awhile ago.
You have literally done their job for them in regards to geography. I hope they use it.
I was glad to see though that the 12% larger than earth number at least had some logic to it, but I do not see how they couldn't just have adjusted the seas to compensate. Than to argue about less heavy metals for density seems wonky especially since in the forgotten realms there are probably more Gold, Copper, and Silver pieces existing than have EVER existed on earth.
The work you have done has spared me hours (though enjoyable they may have been) of calculations.
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| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 02 Apr 2014 : 19:13:50
Very good point MT...I truly hope to some day finish the writing on the Five Shires of the Forgotten Realms...but other things have been calling for some time now... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 02 Apr 2014 : 17:15:29
Technically, neither does the 5-Shire conversion.
During that century of 'magical upheaval' almost nothing is detailed, and since we know geography gets swapped around between worlds, it doesn't necessarily go against canon either. Post 3-e, anything goes.
Which is why I say the entire concept of 'canon' in FR is no longer relevant. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 02 Apr 2014 : 16:18:43
Ixinos can be found for download here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10166328/Ixinos%2C%20Island%20of%20Warrior%20Women%3B%20FINAL%20DRAFT.pdf
sorry for the ugly link. 
MT did an awesome job! He also made an awesome map for me for my homebrew FR concerning the Five Shires; but that is entirely non-canon.
Ixinos is Pseudo-Canon in that I didn't use anything that was AGAINST Canon in making it.
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| Markustay |
Posted - 02 Apr 2014 : 14:38:59
The constellation names ARE drawn from canon. 
Dalor Darden made the Ixinos netbook - I just made the map (but I named some of the places, which then lead to lore). He should be around shortly to provide a link.
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| Mournblade |
Posted - 02 Apr 2014 : 14:28:59
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Thank You. 
We knew the precise (canonical) locations of both the latitude of Waterdeep and the equator, and everything else was extrapolated from that data.
Note: Toril does NOT have timezones (or even the concept of 'hours'), and certainly doesn't use longitude and latitude; this map is purely for RW DM's to use to accurately gauge time & distance in games, NOT in-world.
The names of the tropics and arctic zones was a bit of 'poetic license', but derived from canonical sources (the names themselves, NOT the fact that Toril even has tropic and arctic zones with names). I freely give permission to WotC/Hasbro to use any part of that map in any way they wish, since it does use their intellectual properties.
I was thinking about your tropics.
I wonder if Spelljammer has any information on constellations that might be in Realms space. To follow the pattern it might be cool to name the tropics after some constellations from Canon.
I mean I like the names you used, but using constellations for the tropic names would be a loremaster medal (if they exist (obviously I am not said loremaster)). But now I am going to search for that.
Any advice on how to print that (timezone) map out? I am going to go to staples later to get it on paper.
I'll let you know here if I find any constellation information.
Your work on the placement on Larakond was very well thought out. I like what you did, it made it more palatable to me.
Oh while I am here...
Where is Ixios that you made. I think I want to use that.
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| Markustay |
Posted - 02 Apr 2014 : 14:13:51
Thank You.
We knew the precise (canonical) locations of both the latitude of Waterdeep and the equator, and everything else was extrapolated from that data.
Note: Toril does NOT have timezones (or even the concept of 'hours'), and certainly doesn't use longitude and latitude; this map is purely for RW DM's to use to accurately gauge time & distance in games, NOT in-world.
The names of the tropics and arctic zones was a bit of 'poetic license', but derived from canonical sources (the names themselves, NOT the fact that Toril even has tropic and arctic zones with names). I freely give permission to WotC/Hasbro to use any part of that map in any way they wish, since it does use their intellectual properties. |
| Mournblade |
Posted - 02 Apr 2014 : 14:08:46
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Toril w/Timezones.
By the gods!
The superimposed map you made is just what I needed. I was going to work on an (unskilled) numbers only version of that. Now I do not have too. NICELY DONE!
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| Mournblade |
Posted - 02 Apr 2014 : 13:54:12
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Toril w/Timezones.
Thank you Karsus and Markustay.
Markustay that was EXACTLY what I was looking for!
MAny THanks! Well done indeed!
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| Markustay |
Posted - 01 Apr 2014 : 23:00:46
Toril w/Timezones. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 01 Apr 2014 : 20:27:18
-It was; December 31, 2004
http://candlekeep.com/library/articles/sse/sse_1112-04.htm
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
I wonder why Wizards and Ed agreed that Toril was 12% larger in diameter, what bearing could that even have on the realms?
-The 12% number might've been retconned, with the 3e map being altered in relation to the 2e map (the reply is from 2004, so the map being smooshed may or may not have been taken into account there), and then who knows what with all the Spellplague stuff (continents were literally moved, so that probably would have a pretty big impact on this kind of stuff). Given that the former was a retcon, and the second was a huge magical catastrophe that did whatever the designers wanted it to do, with whatever kind of aftereffects they wanted it to have, likely very little. |
| Mournblade |
Posted - 01 Apr 2014 : 19:31:09
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Copying and pasting from the Forgotten Realms Mailing List Q&A,
quote:
"Looking at the map in F&A, we can see that the equator runs through the southern part of Maztica (just below the published map), through the northern portion of Zakhara, and through the southern reaches of Kara-Tur. It falls a little south of Nimbral (I think that's Nimbral) and well south of Chult.
Abeir-Toril, according to every published source, is roughly equivalent in size to Earth. However, part of what determines the size of the tropics and the intensity of the seasons is whether or not it has the same axial tilt. Since there are very definite summers and winters, I'd say the axial tilt is the same or perhaps even a little greater (23.5-25 degrees, as a ballpark guess).
Note also, from the same map, that even including Maztica we've only seen about a third of the surface area of Toril. There's a LOT of room for more lands to explore, to the west of Maztica and/or the east of Kara-Tur (as well as to the south of everything)."
-And according to Ed Greenwood (2004),
quote:
"So (bearing in mind that I can’t speak officially for Wizards), we’re agreed on Toril having a 12 percent larger diameter than Earth (therefore 8,880 miles or 14,280 km). I vote for the same gravity as Earth, so Toril must be about 90% as dense as Earth. I can live with that (as you say, we can assume divine tinkering with the availability of metals).
Adjust the latitude of all base calculations by 1.009, and I agree with your personal choice of 8.1 daylight Midwinter hours for Silverymoon and the axial tilt that results (28°53')."
Was the second one from one of SO saith Ed? What group was that from, I would like to read that thread.
Many thanks!
Carl
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| Mournblade |
Posted - 01 Apr 2014 : 19:24:57
Holy crap!
Thank you, that is a help. I am going to get working on my notes on this.
I wonder why Wizards and Ed agreed that Toril was 12% larger in diameter, what bearing could that even have on the realms? |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 01 Apr 2014 : 19:08:09
-Copying and pasting from the Forgotten Realms Mailing List Q&A,
quote:
"Looking at the map in F&A, we can see that the equator runs through the southern part of Maztica (just below the published map), through the northern portion of Zakhara, and through the southern reaches of Kara-Tur. It falls a little south of Nimbral (I think that's Nimbral) and well south of Chult.
Abeir-Toril, according to every published source, is roughly equivalent in size to Earth. However, part of what determines the size of the tropics and the intensity of the seasons is whether or not it has the same axial tilt. Since there are very definite summers and winters, I'd say the axial tilt is the same or perhaps even a little greater (23.5-25 degrees, as a ballpark guess).
Note also, from the same map, that even including Maztica we've only seen about a third of the surface area of Toril. There's a LOT of room for more lands to explore, to the west of Maztica and/or the east of Kara-Tur (as well as to the south of everything)."
-And according to Ed Greenwood (2004),
quote:
"So (bearing in mind that I can’t speak officially for Wizards), we’re agreed on Toril having a 12 percent larger diameter than Earth (therefore 8,880 miles or 14,280 km). I vote for the same gravity as Earth, so Toril must be about 90% as dense as Earth. I can live with that (as you say, we can assume divine tinkering with the availability of metals).
Adjust the latitude of all base calculations by 1.009, and I agree with your personal choice of 8.1 daylight Midwinter hours for Silverymoon and the axial tilt that results (28°53')."
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