| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| unseenmage |
Posted - 21 Mar 2014 : 16:12:38
How bad would the blowback be, both political and magical, if a character managed to set up several rings of Spellclocks (wondrous itemt hat recasts the same spell every hour) the net effect of which was to create thousands or even millions of permanent sentient free-willed Constructs?
This actually happened in one of our games and I'm curious if the weave would tear, the gods would intervene, or the godlike NPCs or the Realms would even let it happen?
In the game it's in both the Simbul and Elminster are bros with the character who did this thing, the character's deity asked that the process be stopped and never implemented again, and at least two mass invasions have been triggered and thwarted by the new Construct citizens of Aglarond. The character who did this is TN, he just saw it as a means to an end and he views the Constructs as people rather than property.
How would you folk have handled it? |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 26 Mar 2014 : 22:24:52
quote:
unseenmage
In the game it's in both the Simbul and Elminster are bros with the character who did this thing, the character's deity asked that the process be stopped and never implemented again, and at least two mass invasions have been triggered and thwarted by the new Construct citizens of Aglarond.
It seems you‘ve already answered your own question in the OP.
Early Realmslore provides examples of what happens when people defy their deities. Most people oblige with alacrity when a deity issues a request. Before the request becomes a demand. Before the demand becomes supernatural action. Even the most benevolent deities have been known to smite cities, hurl mountains, raise floods, cause droughts, inflict plagues, and all that sorta stuff. Let alone what happens when a deity aligns against schisms within the church, declares a holy war, jihad, crusade, or otherwise enforces unfaltering obedience to its faith. A Faerûnian deity needn‘t just decline divine support and magic, nor just let people suffer from portfolios run amok, but it can also simply withdraw sponsorship and protection of those who no longer serve its interests - almost a guarantee that Bad Things Will Happen, given the presence of so many competitive deities who will move aggressively towards a suddenly unclaimed pool of followers. And don‘t forget that all sorts of opportunistic wizards and dragons and the like will be free to act unimpeded and unchallenged by priestly meddlers.
And while Elminster and the Symbul may be powerful, popular, and enjoy unique positions which allow them to do almost anything they please, their godlike unstoppableness doesn‘t extend to those they befriend, not even to their ‘bros‘. Elminster has been ruthless in the past, and - while it may trouble him greatly, and he may even fight against it for as long as possible (that is, for about half a trilogy) - he will dispose of his closest friends if that is what‘s necessary to preserve things he loves and believes are more important. |
| unseenmage |
Posted - 26 Mar 2014 : 19:40:08
I am genuinely curious as to what laws you folk think could/would be set against/for these Constructs. Especially as they're about to be declared official citizens of Aglarond. |
| unseenmage |
Posted - 22 Mar 2014 : 23:53:51
quote:
Also, I don't mean "not care" as in "not even paying attention". I'm pretty sure most rulers would make laws concerning those constructs, and try to keep everything stable and working well. I meant few people are likely to try to stop the guy, at least in my world. But he'd probably get a lot of investment proposals.
What sort of laws would you suggest such rulers might pass?
They're currently residing in the Upperdark (top 5 miles of the Underdark) of Aglarond and there is a sizable population in all of the cities of Aglarond.
Nearly all of them have a feat that lets them use whatever skills they want to and they were put to work repairing every structure damaged by war or time in the country. So they're viewed as a workforce more than anything by the populus.
They aren't strong combatants though 1/5 of them are Huge size and amorphous enough to change their shape (but not their texture/color). Another 2/5 of them are nearly immune to damage but can be dispelled magically if they're not careful.
As for their needs Constructs are generally functionally immortal with no need to eat, sleep, breathe, or be maintained.
(Though one could see them also not caring about cleanliness or personal hygiene such as it may be. Imagine thousands of Construct citizens who don't care about the mud and filth they tramp about, could get messy.)
They're immune to disease and poison as well so they will have little need to police such things. One of them could start carrying around a beehive in it's armpit and though it wouldn't care the more flesh and blood citizenry might. |
| Mapolq |
Posted - 22 Mar 2014 : 21:37:15
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq
Think of it as an analogue to a mass migration via portal. It's happened several times in the past, and some of them, like the one where the Grey Orcs came to Faerûn, led to large-scale war. Now, it doesn't need to be that way, so I see no reason why would there be a problem in the Weave or why powerful people would be concerned, unless they're rulers of nations who might suffer from those creations (like the Simbul or the Zulkirs of Thay in your case).
You don't think people would be concerned about soldiers who are stronger and more resilient than humans, don't have to eat or sleep, and who could be mass produced?
Well, he didn't specify if the creatures are strong or not, if they decay quickly, if they require continuous maintenance, if they can be controlled, if they can be mass-produced beyond that first "batch", etc. I'm just going with the general idea (obviously I have no idea what those spells actually do, I wrote my post before he posted that in fact, but only got around to posting it a while later as it was hanging in my screen).
Also, I don't mean "not care" as in "not even paying attention". I'm pretty sure most rulers would make laws concerning those constructs, and try to keep everything stable and working well. I meant few people are likely to try to stop the guy, at least in my world. But he'd probably get a lot of investment proposals. |
| unseenmage |
Posted - 22 Mar 2014 : 19:25:47
There are other ideas he DID NOT implement too. Magic robot versions of aberration were-dragons who could agelessly spread their Construct-lycanthropy potentially forever? Yeah, didn't build those. Awaken Sand (Black Sand) which turns any living creature that dies while touching it into Undead? Didn't make those either.
This wasn't about brute forcing the situations. (it's way easier/cheaper to Ring of Three Wishes then chain gate Solars for example) and now we're happily role and roll playing the consequences of the events that unfolded.
Like I mentioned, Aglarond has suffered an extra invasion funded by it's enemies because of the potential threat created by these Constructs. On the other hand, Aglarond has also used them to claim the topmost 5 miles of the Underdark beneath the country.
The DM for the game was just telling me last night about how another group in the same shared world was visiting an Aglarondan city and they got to see a smith who was employing one of the Shapesand Constructs as a combination hammer and anvil. And another woman, a shopkeeper who was shooing Crawling Claws out of her house like they were racoons or rats with a broom.
Added an unexpected flavor to that part of their realms, which everyone agreed was pretty cool.
I was just curious what other political responses were likely in the Realms besides mass invasions. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 22 Mar 2014 : 07:27:09
How would I have handled it? No doubt with a shake of the head.
-- George Krashos |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Mar 2014 : 22:38:54
quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq
Think of it as an analogue to a mass migration via portal. It's happened several times in the past, and some of them, like the one where the Grey Orcs came to Faerûn, led to large-scale war. Now, it doesn't need to be that way, so I see no reason why would there be a problem in the Weave or why powerful people would be concerned, unless they're rulers of nations who might suffer from those creations (like the Simbul or the Zulkirs of Thay in your case).
You don't think people would be concerned about soldiers who are stronger and more resilient than humans, don't have to eat or sleep, and who could be mass produced? |
| Mapolq |
Posted - 21 Mar 2014 : 22:20:52
Think of it as an analogue to a mass migration via portal. It's happened several times in the past, and some of them, like the one where the Grey Orcs came to Faerûn, led to large-scale war. Now, it doesn't need to be that way, so I see no reason why would there be a problem in the Weave or why powerful people would be concerned, unless they're rulers of nations who might suffer from those creations (like the Simbul or the Zulkirs of Thay in your case). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Mar 2014 : 20:39:53
Keep in mind, too, that a lot of people -- and nations -- would not see this as much as a threat to them as it would a potential source of power. So even if there was some means of producing a free-willed construct every hour, someone would be trying to steal it for themselves very quickly. |
| unseenmage |
Posted - 21 Mar 2014 : 18:19:39
The "factories" have already been stopped. The Spellclocks were researched by an Eberron style Artificer. (part of the plot is that some outside force is leaving otherworldly ideas in his head, his deity confirmed that it wasn't the deity though.)
Xp can be bought, and is. The multiverse of Planar Metroplolises ensured that economies weren't broken. And the funds were (though far above WBL, an experiment by the DM) generated via an exhaustible set of resources. Magically created potions and acid, both of which are consumables and don't persist in the economy like magically created gold could.
For those curious the spells used are:
- True Creation (small winged obdurium statue)+Animate Objects+Permanency+Awaken Construct
- As above only replace Animate Objects and Permanency with Minor Servitor
- True Creation (statue of all left hands OR Effigy/Golem left hand)+Create Crawling Claw+ (Custom Magic Spell)Awaken Crawling Claw
- True Creation (Shapesand) +Awaken Sands (the Shapesand item traits were retained when it became a creature, but it's Wis is so low it can only change a 2' cube of itself at a time though)
The first two are subject to dispelling, the last two create true and actual creatures.
Some portion of the population of Crawling Claws is still non-sentient.
Some portion of the population of the other three types have been changed into true living humanoids and giants but Incarnate Construct.
The character who did this treated all of them with due respect and taught them to worship his deity. (DM ruled that the non-living Constructs didn't contribute any power to the deity, but the living ones might if enough choose to change.) |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 21 Mar 2014 : 17:05:52
Well, I can't see it working. First, spell clocks are items that should only be created once the secret of their construction is discovered somewhere in Xen'drik on Eberron. Second, it would take an awful long time to create that many spell clocks and use up resources that no one should have access to. I mean each one requires 65,000gp and 5,200xp to create. Who has 65,000,000gp to spare in the FR and what PC would be willing to lose 5,200,000xp? Third, a spell clock can only cast spells. I can't think of a 3.5e spell that summons constructs for more than 1 minute/level. If these spell clocks are casting once per hour, even with epic metamagic you'd have to be minimum caster level 31 to be able to imbue it with the ability to recast the same spell before it expires.
The constructs themselves would also be very restricted in their movements.
Do you have one spell clock to cast summon golem and another to cast awaken construct? If that's so, double the costs I already wrote.
I don't think it would break the Weave, though it would put incredible strain on it within the first week. If you're going to bring back lost magic from Eberron, I think it would be far more practical to try and locate the means to recreate a warforge. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 21 Mar 2014 : 16:49:51
Not sure what rule set you are using, splat book or one of newer editions. So can not directly comment of the technical details. I would not premit such an event to take place in the first place.
However in your game how to deal with the problem: Deities would not become involved unless many of their faithful were in danger.
These free will constructs will be taking up space of land that will clearly lead to wars as their numbers increase. Low level will quickly die, however as the constructs continued expansion continues, other races and nations will combine in a war to eradicate them. The Zents, Thay, Elves, Waterdeep etc. all would combine in truce with each other to remove the danger should that be required. The long term would be seeking the destruction of the "Spellclocks" and the insane person that used them for that purpose.
It might take years or perhaps a quick high powered raid would get rid of the PC and the factories.
Of course if the constructs do no damage and perhaps even help humans grow food and help defend them from things like Drow they certainly could be accepted by some. Sooner or later, sheer numbers produced requires that in the end the production must be stopped. |
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