| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Xnella Moonblade-Thann |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 15:41:27
In the 2e AD&D Forgotten Realms City of Splendors Campaign Expansion (set about 1367/1368 DR), it mentions a Sarya who resides in Castle Ward but is assigned Watch duty in the Adventurer's Quarter of Waterdeep. How she is described ("Selfish and openly scornful of others...When forced to confront someone, she is brusque but with veneer of politeness like a child forced into apologizing"..."In a manner similar to eastern wizards from Thay or Mulhorand, Sarya's forearms are tattooed in mystical patterns that glow when she casts spells; the designs are her own...") I am wondering if this is the same Sarya who is Sarya Dlardrageth? IIRC, Sarya Dlardrageth was one of the Fey'ri (demon/devil-blooded Sun Elves) who were free before Hellgate Keep was destroyed and freed the rest of the imprisoned Fey'ri. Any thoughts on if the two Saryas are actually the same person, fellow scribes? If this is so, then I may have an interesting plot hook for an adventure...  |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Barastir |
Posted - 18 Mar 2014 : 10:55:20
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Or... The tattoos are Sarya's consciousness.
(...)
And thus, she has been around for centuries, jumping from body to body, and Waterdhavian Sarya is just the latest one.
My idea of the tattoos being a reflection of a pact also considered this possibility, IF the person had to make them to "accept" Sarya's conscience - maybe thinking they would have control over the powers that (at least supposedly) came with the tatoos, to discover later that they don't. But maybe it would be more like a forced possession, when it was passed along from one person to the other. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Mar 2014 : 03:45:59
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
EDIT: You could even create a new variety of cloning that would allow Sarya a human "clone"... Although it would be very unlikely for a very proud sun-elf cambion. 
Or... The tattoos are Sarya's consciousness. The fey'ri Sarya had originally created them, before being imprisoned, in order to have a sort of disposable body. She put the tattoos on someone, "rode" and controlled their body thru the tattoos, and then, at the right time, had the tattoos pass on to the next person. When she was imprisoned, the tattoos, carrying a sort of imprint of her, remained -- almost like they were her avatar.
And thus, she has been around for centuries, jumping from body to body, and Waterdhavian Sarya is just the latest one.
It's rather similar to Azazel in the movie Fallen, though I would personally make the transfer of tattoos somewhat more involved, and thus force Sarya to use each body for a longer period of time, as opposed to popping all around the room just to screw with someone.
...And actually, I find myself rather enamored of this idea, and may figure out a use for it, myself. Though I wouldn't connect it to Sarya the fey'ri -- I like the fey'ri, but I would have this be someone else's gig. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 17 Mar 2014 : 15:56:08
Agreed with Wooly... In answer to the question "I am wondering if this is the same Sarya who is Sarya Dlardrageth?", the answer in canon is "no". However, if someone wants to make it true in his/her own campaign, it is entirely possible and natural. In my FR game I used and still use Under Illefarn adventures and NPCs in 1367/ 1368 DR - I started DMing before The North was published, and this boxed set situated the events of the adventure 15 years earlier (and so adjusted the age of the NPCs). In my Realms, they are young as in the module.
As for the use of Sarya in your game... First of all, if she was free since ancient times and is disguised as a human for many years, it would be more than a one-year adjustment to change, maybe she escaped when her sons were imprisoned, millenia ago. However, you can say that the Sarya outside of Hellgate Keep is a disguised clone, or even a human who was somehow dominated by the original, imprisoned Sarya. Maybe the tattoos are actually the result of a dark pact between her and the cambion countess, which was mentally contacted in a dark and lost ritual. The human woman would have been an ambitious sorceress, or maybe a wizard who was deceived and had her mind or soul trapped somewhere while Sarya took control of her body. Finally, you can advance the destruction of the infamous Keep one year or two, and use the freed Sarya, as mentioned before. Maybe she got free but her sons were still imprisoned, or maybe she is advancing her Myth Drannor ambitions from Waterdeep...
There are many possibilities in your homebrew game, feel free to use them to create great adventures for your PCs, even if they are not in accordance with published material. As MT said, canon is a guide, not shackles - it is true for Realmsian history as much as it is for the application of game rules.
EDIT: You could even create a new variety of cloning that would allow Sarya a human "clone"... Although it would be very unlikely for a very proud sun-elf cambion. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Mar 2014 : 03:18:53
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Yup.
There's NEVER a reason why someone should tell people they CAN'T do something in their games.
Canon is a guide, not a set of shackles.
Yeah, but discussions of canon should stick to canon. In canon, the two Saryas are clearly not the same, since the timing is wrong. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 15 Mar 2014 : 17:44:52
Yup.
There's NEVER a reason why someone should tell people they CAN'T do something in their games.
Canon is a guide, not a set of shackles. |
| Eltheron |
Posted - 15 Mar 2014 : 14:07:24
If it gives you an interesting plot hook, I'd say roll with it.
One year difference between two old TSR products doesn't seem like a major problem IMO. Just adjust the dates slightly and you're good to go. If I were a fey-ri trapped for ages and was accidentally released, I'd probably glamor or shapeshift myself and head to a big city. After the amount of time trapped, she'd need to get a feel for what's currently happening in the world and if there are any allies or dupes out there she could take advantage of for her own plans.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Mar 2014 : 03:09:52
quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq
I actually find the existence of namesakes refreshing... It's a bit weird that almost *everyone* has a different name in Faerūn. Though I know and appreciate the reason for it - avoiding needless confusion when you're not a die-hard fan who would know the difference between nine distinct Saryas, or whatever other name.
Ed has said that it's more common in his Realms, but when TSR bought them, they downplayed that to prevent confusion. In the early material, the only names I can think of that got reused were Helm and Torm. Both are deities, but there was a named PC that also had that name, in both cases. |
| Mapolq |
Posted - 15 Mar 2014 : 00:09:45
I actually find the existence of namesakes refreshing... It's a bit weird that almost *everyone* has a different name in Faerūn. Though I know and appreciate the reason for it - avoiding needless confusion when you're not a die-hard fan who would know the difference between nine distinct Saryas, or whatever other name. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 22:16:49
Iāll submit that Sarya-of-Waterdeep might be a doppleganger, assassin, spy, decoy, actor, charlatan, illusionist, or illusion who has directly had past dealings with Sarya-Daemonfey. Perhaps an agent working for Sarya, perhaps an enemy attempting to discredit her, perhaps an opportunist using her identity (and identity-based posessions?), perhaps even a polymorph-capable fiend with its own nefarious agenda.
Or we could say the writers just got a little lazy, Sarya might be a not-uncommon name, and any resemblance between the two might be coincidental. Or we could say the writers deliberately contrived this resemblance but never (yet?) explained any deeper connection. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 21:41:07
Given that the timing is wrong, I'd say the two women named Sarya are unrelated... Much like Torm of the Knights of Myth Drannor has nothing to do with Torm the deity. |
| Xnella Moonblade-Thann |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 21:01:57
Ooh! Markus, I love the way you think!
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| Markustay |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 20:53:24
I like the idea they are one-and-the-same, because what better way to 'hide', then in plain sight? Having those nefarious-looking tattoos, no-one would ever think she was some sort of elf.
On the other hand, who's to say she hadn't been disguised as a human for centuries, and did indeed spend some time in Thay (until she had to leave, rather in a hurry)? She may have even been apprenticed to a Zulkir, trying to learn secrets that would enable her to free her kin.
Lots of fun ways to spin that. |
| Xnella Moonblade-Thann |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 20:53:02
But...maybe the Sarya in Waterdeep is a magical double of Sarya Dlardrageth? It wouldn't be the first magical double of a person in the Realms (look at all the Manshoon clones running around  )
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| Xnella Moonblade-Thann |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 20:45:45
I'm thinking the tattoos are a disguise when Sarya takes a human form or are disguised in her real form...she is a devil/demon-blooded Sun Elf mage after all... If the two Saryas happen to be the same person, it would allow me to start with the party meeting Sarya in Waterdeep and then having them help her with Myth Drannor's reclaiming (they start out on her side but find out she was deceiving them, they switch sides without her knowing it and then use their trust with her to infiltrate her army and give the elves who are restoring Myth Drannor valuable information...although this may make the Last Mythal books invalid and change how Myth Drannor was restored...). I like the idea of the party unknowingly helping a villian then when they find out what's really going on they switch sides...they would be willing to make up for their wrong-doings. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 17:00:20
Cool theory, but there are some problems to sustain it: first of all, in countess Sarya's description in the 2e Hellgate Keep accessory, she shows no tattoos. Well, you could say thet she is in disguise, although maybe she would want a better one - without Thay-style tattoos that glow - to remain conspicuous (or maybe she would choose a Thay-like disguise for people to avoid her, or any other reason).
But the main point agains them being the same is that the destruction of the infamous keep and subsequent release of countess Dlardrageth happened only in 1369 DR, about one year after the time set for the 2e Waterdeep City of Spendors boxed set.
So, it seams we have two different and interesting female villains, that share the same name but have both their own different stories (one well-described, other more open to development by DMs).  |
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