| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| TentCrash |
Posted - 29 Jan 2014 : 03:58:09
There is a similar topic to this already (Favourite Deity, or something), but I think this is different enough to warrant another thread, as hopefully those who think Shar or Bane is cool wouldn't actually worship them.
So, you're transported into FR in whatever era is suitable (so you can live the rest of your life without your god dying the day before you do), and you've realised that you'd better find someone to worship if you don't want to end up badly when you die (or you're just really impressed by a particular god). However, you're still you. So if danger and injury aren't something you enjoy in real life, you're probably never going to become an adventurer, and if you're in your 30s or older already, you're probably never going to be a wizard that could shake the heavens. Remember that you're going to be a human, also.
My choice is probably a bit dull to most people; I'd choose Eldath, who I've always had a soft spot for. Meditating by a little waterfall that flows into a nice pond sounds like heaven, and learning to be peaceful away from civilisation is something that really appeals to me.
How about you? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 05 Feb 2014 : 09:17:07
Sharessin is a very good adjective that I am going to steal |
| Demzer |
Posted - 04 Feb 2014 : 17:40:37
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
... as if the idea was funny in an absurd or silly way.
(Speaking of Selvetarm I sketched an outline of a story where Sharess ressurects her son free of demonic taint :) Which is perhaps why I am being defensive of an imaginary being's honor....a lot of it used the Sharess' ethos that a scribe posted much of here and expanded upon in my own imagination)
Understood, sign me up in the "funny in a silly way" list, apologies if i offended you but i assure you the joke came to me naturally while i was writing that i would "pay her lip service" meaning she wouldn't be central in my Realmsian alter ego religious life.
No offense intended towards true Sharessin and no cat was harmed in the making of my post(s). [ok, sorry, i'll stop with the silly jokes now] |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 04 Feb 2014 : 10:53:22
How we understand these fictional deities to exist in our collective imagination is not really analogous to understanding of any entities in contemporary real world religions. I don't think we should make the comparison, really, that is entering dangerous territory in my opinion.
In regards to Sharess pleasure, sensuality, and so forth isn't just about sex. Yes sex is enjoyable but her portfolio is not explicitly all about her being a "sex goddess". If she were real she would be as a real deity a being with many, many attributes...more than a mortal and existing in a way that is beyond mortal (or real) comprehension. I don't think you can "rank" her attributes of one being more important than another. She is the goddess of felines period. Her portfolio is her portfolio certain parts do not represent her more or less than another.
Since she is the amalgamation of three powers (Zandilar, Bast, and Felidae) into one being. All three aspects presumably still exist in her new form. (Real world parallel in Christianity "Father, son and the holy ghost/spirit", sorry if that comparison is blasphemous to anyone, or Angarradh in the Seldarine) Bast is not gone and forgotten she is just part of something new. Sex, sexuality and sexualities are very important aspects of existence, too. We can see how important things like sexual orientation, lust, sensual fulfillment and desire shape much of human behavior. What I meant earlier when I thought people did not take her seriously is that people would mention her name almost jokingly as if "yeah because i'd have sex all the time in her temple!" as if the idea was funny in an absurd or silly way.
(Speaking of Selvetarm I sketched an outline of a story where Sharess ressurects her son free of demonic taint :) Which is perhaps why I am being defensive of an imaginary being's honor....a lot of it used the Sharess' ethos that a scribe posted much of here and expanded upon in my own imagination) |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 04 Feb 2014 : 04:47:12
For me, I could surely put more faith in a deity I KNEW existed and that interacted with the world than even an all powerful entity that made no attempt to affirm its existence and remained aloof amid suffering and other dooms.
So again, Shaundakul would be perfect for me...as well as Mystra. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 Feb 2014 : 04:27:37
On a kind of similar note, with a person of one religion having to pick a Realms deity...
One of my long-pending on-again/off-again projects is a Warhammer 40k Space Marine that gets transported to the Realms. My thinking is that this particular NPC eventually becomes a priest of Torm.
Like all Space Marines, he was dedicated to the Emperor, but after spending some time in the Realms (and with a very persuasive priest of Torm), he became convinced that the Emperor was an avatar of Torm. The Emperor has been near death and in suspended animation for 10,000 years, but is still protecting mankind -- obviously he is dedicated to his duty and quite exemplifies Torm's focus on such. So if the Emperor is really a servant of Torm's, there is no issue switching over to him. |
| Karyl |
Posted - 04 Feb 2014 : 04:15:26
If I were born into the Realms - and had only those to choose from - it would be the Triad (as I wrote before). Lawful good to the core. That being said, though, a great part of my faith and devotion stems from the pursuit of truth-as-such; truth with a capital T, you could say, which interestingly is only referenced incidentally (if at all) in the Triad. Knowledge is intimately connected to Truth, which makes me wonder how Oghma would fit into the equation. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 04 Feb 2014 : 03:36:55
Wooly: oops! I typed that response on my phone, and it has a tendency to assume I meant to type one thing, when I really wanted something else. I didn't even notice that typo until you pointed it out! Lol I meant godhood.
Karyl: you make good points, and I guess I skipped over the "if you were transported to the Realms", and just focused on the part about which deity you would worship if you were in the Realms. If I were in the Realms (I wish it was a real place sometimes. Hey, maybe it is  ) but knew what I know now, I think it would be important to respect the deities of the Realms, and accept their blessings, if given (as you mentioned). But if you had to choose a deity of the Realms to worship, who would it be? Real world beliefs aside. That was my point about the Realms being a fictional place: because it's fictional, it's okay to choose a fictional deity to worship in the game, and for the sake of the question. |
| TentCrash |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 22:52:06
quote:
Originally posted by Karyl
Perhaps this is all too heavy-handed for the original question, which seems to be more a question of, 'who would appeal to you to worship - not for coolness factor but as an actual being in themselves, in alignment with your own values?', and I admit, I'm vaulting the intent of that question entirely! But it was so strikingly relevant to the current game I am in with Kris, I could not resist commenting.
No, not at all. Your answer can only be "None, because...", since that's the only answer that wouldn't feel like betraying your beliefs. I'd say you're answering the question correctly. |
| Karyl |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 22:40:33
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Most of the deities in the Realms aren't jumped up mortals, though. Some were once mortals and obtained Goodwood, yes, but many have been deities from the beginning. The Realms is a fictional setting, so whatever my faith is in real life (which is actually kind of complicated), for the Realms I would choose a deity (or deities).
Well - the premise of the thread was 'if you were transported to the Realms', which for me is a very different question from 'if you were born into the Realms.' It begs the reader to suspend belief for a moment, and to treat the Realms not as fictional for the purposes of the question, but rather, as a Real Place. If the Realms were a real place, say a different Crystal Sphere, and its deities likewise real, and you were to suddenly find yourself there, knowing all that you know now... whom would you choose to worship? I confess, it's an intriguing question!
As for Kris the Grey's comment above, calling Realms deities 'jumped up mortals'. Some of them quite literally are; some, not so much, as you pointed out. But I think we can agree that the kind of being they would be, were they real, is of a different kind entirely than the God the Abrahamic religions, were He real. Not to wax too philosophical, but the latter is a wholly different 'substance', classified not merely as Creator (in the way some Realms deities are) but even as Being Itself. A claim to which not even Ao supposes!
The point that would follow is this: a Catholic (such as myself) would recognize the very real presence and power of Realms deities, but would also acknowledge that such power is limited. That while the deities are immortal, they are not necessarily unkillable (or undestroyable); they may rise or fall in significance, ascend from mortality or be stripped of godhood. While tremendous beings, not to be trifled with, their ranks may nonetheless be broached by mortals. And so Kris would have no desire to bend the knee in worship to someone set over him by nothing more than circumstance.
For my own part, in this particular campaign, my relationship to the Realms deities is analogous to that of very powerful kings. I acknowledge their authority, influence, and very real power. I'll accept their blessings, should they choose to give them, and work side by side with their faithful - just as I would with any goodly leader. But I won't worship them any more than I would worship any 'classically mortal' king.
This is a very different kind of relationship than one with God as understood on Earth, who is a Being on a sort of unbreachable level, of a different kind entirely, not merely a degree of power. Which would explain my choice to continue in my current course of worship.
Perhaps this is all too heavy-handed for the original question, which seems to be more a question of, 'who would appeal to you to worship - not for coolness factor but as an actual being in themselves, in alignment with your own values?', and I admit, I'm vaulting the intent of that question entirely! But it was so strikingly relevant to the current game I am in with Kris, I could not resist commenting.
In fact, the first conversation I had with Kris about the direction of Karyl-as-character (class-wise) in the Realms went very much along these lines. Neat to come full circle, so to speak. |
| TentCrash |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 14:40:53
Well, no, I don't think we're actually in disagreement on how she is portrayed in FR, sorry if that wasn't clear. I'm just not a fan of how they've chosen to do it; she was a lot more interesting and nuanced in her original guise, in my opinion. |
| Demzer |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 14:05:39
quote:
Originally posted by TentCrash
I wouldn't say it bothers me; I just find the emphasis odd. It would be like adding Hephaestus and making him a god of fire or disabled people, rather than metalworking. Or even adding Jesus and making him a god of smashing moneylenders. Sure, these were aspects to them, but it's kind of missing the point, in a way that the Selune and Sune examples aren't.
Maybe we have very very different outlooks on Sharess and her portfolio but from all that i've gathered on her in Realmslore her time as Bast and Felidae is just a distant memory (holding only in the Old Empires and with the feline-bond residue everywhere) and she's much more invested in her hedonistic aspect. Thus when i think of Sharess she is the goddess of pleasure and sex first and felines, wanderlust, ecc... second. |
| TentCrash |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 10:55:02
I wouldn't say it bothers me; I just find the emphasis odd. It would be like adding Hephaestus and making him a god of fire or disabled people, rather than metalworking. Or even adding Jesus and making him a god of smashing moneylenders. Sure, these were aspects to them, but it's kind of missing the point, in a way that the Selune and Sune examples aren't. |
| Demzer |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 10:20:06
So when someone that isn't a sailor worships Selune as a moon goddess he/she isn't taking her seriously because it's overlooking her patronage on navigation?
When someone worships Sune because he/she likes beauty everywhere but isn't engaged in a relationship isn't taking her seriously because it's overlooking her patronage on love?
Faerunian gods and goddesses are multidimensional, some more than others, and the same deity can attract different followers for different reasons.
Sharess' pull on the overwhelming majority of Faerunian worshippers stems from her patronage of pleasure and sex, from the fact her temples hold sacred orgies and not from the fact she's Selvetarm's mother or because there are always cats and other felines in her temples. |
| TentCrash |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 10:03:33
quote:
Originally posted by Kris the Grey
3) Like Karyl above, I'm old fashioned, so I would have trouble worshipping any Realms 'deity' since I know they are basically just jumped up mortals (in some cases explicitly so) and I'd not bend my knee to a person merely because they had more power than me. Throw in my Catholicism, and that First Commandment, and you've got a recipe for me not 'going native' in the fashion of many of my players.
Yes, that's probably the answer most Christians would give. Being Buddhist myself, I have nobody to offend by worshipping a "jumped up mortal". Add to that the fact that I'd have another excuse to meditate more with Eldath. The only problem I can foresee is that I might be considered False for holding on to my old beliefs.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've never thought Sharess wasn't taken seriously, just that she didn't enjoy the same level of regard as some of the deific big names. Most people, I think, simply overlook her -- much like my choice, Lurue.
I think the point was that people seem to think Sharess/Bast is all about sex sex sex, when there was a lot more to her. Of course, the way she is presented in the sourcebooks doesn't really help. Bast was about pleasure and cats, sure, but cats in Egypt often meant the difference between plenty and famine. Not to mention her warlike (protective) traits, and aiding in childbirth (not exactly pleasurable, I can say from experience). |
| Irennan |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 09:19:09
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've never thought Sharess wasn't taken seriously, just that she didn't enjoy the same level of regard as some of the deific big names. Most people, I think, simply overlook her -- much like my choice, Lurue.
Yes, I too think that this is the case. Lesser known deities may be be overlooked in favor of the notorious ones, despite standing for interesting and valid concepts. |
| Rikudou |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 08:18:24
Ilmater for me |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 05:35:50
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Some were once mortals and obtained Goodwood, yes, but many have been deities from the beginning.
Goodwood? Aren't there pills that can give you that? 
I normally leave the typos alone, but goodwood was begging for attention. You can't leave that one alone.  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 05:33:23
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Sharess as a deity does not seem to be taken very seriously by this community, almost like it is a funny joke. A goddess of pleasure doesn't mean constant orgies there is more to hedonism and pleasure than sex... she she partly Bast who should be taken very seriously. Bast being from the "real world" had temples and cults that were about way more than sensuality. Her faithful would want to protect peoples' freedoms, fight evil, emulate/honor felines, etc.
I've never thought Sharess wasn't taken seriously, just that she didn't enjoy the same level of regard as some of the deific big names. Most people, I think, simply overlook her -- much like my choice, Lurue. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 04:51:50
Sharess as a deity does not seem to be taken very seriously by this community, almost like it is a funny joke. A goddess of pleasure doesn't mean constant orgies there is more to hedonism and pleasure than sex... she she partly Bast who should be taken very seriously. Bast being from the "real world" had temples and cults that were about way more than sensuality. Her faithful would want to protect peoples' freedoms, fight evil, emulate/honor felines, etc. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 02 Feb 2014 : 23:34:05
Most of the deities in the Realms aren't jumped up mortals, though. Some were once mortals and obtained Goodwood, yes, but many have been deities from the beginning. The Realms is a fictional setting, so whatever my faith is in real life (which is actually kind of complicated), for the Realms I would choose a deity (or deities). |
| Kris the Grey |
Posted - 02 Feb 2014 : 23:17:03
TentCrash,
I see you've hit upon one of the secret joys of the 'Play Yourself' style adventure I usually serve as a booster for around these parts. One of my players has even hopped into the discussion above (and has pretty much summed up the state of affairs on the subject in our campaign).
I'll just add a few things:
1) One of the key things to remember about the Realms and gods is the degree to which active polytheism is embraced. I know it has been said around here a million times (and by better scribes than me), but just like ancient Greece and Rome, most folks devote themselves to many gods venerating each in turn as they pass through daily subject matter areas devoted to each. One can worship Mystra and Selune and Sune and Chauntea and Lathander and...well you get the idea. So, why pick just one?
2) That said, most of us earther types of a non-religious nature would likely take the approach of favoring one god over the rest merely because we come from a culture dominated by monotheistic faiths. I'd guess most would pick the one whose subject matter area (Mystra maybe) or form of worship services (Sharess seems popular...) most appealed.
3) Like Karyl above, I'm old fashioned, so I would have trouble worshipping any Realms 'deity' since I know they are basically just jumped up mortals (in some cases explicitly so) and I'd not bend my knee to a person merely because they had more power than me. Throw in my Catholicism, and that First Commandment, and you've got a recipe for me not 'going native' in the fashion of many of my players.
4) On the subject of going native... I've been doing this Play Yourself thing for a while now (since the 90's), and only in my most recent campaign (which started circa 2010) have I encountered players willing to 'convert' to local faiths. Then again, this is the first time I've really played with people born after 1980, women in large numbers, and atheists. Before that, all my old school players, when asked if they would worship Realms gods, merely snorted. (One of them, when asked by a local priest what god he worshipped memorably replied, "I worship Jesus Christ you freak!"). I'll note that people who are atheists or agnostics here on Earth seem the most eager to sign up once they start play. I suppose the old 'I won't believe it unless I see it with my own two eyes' chestnut applies pretty well to them.
|
| Venomus |
Posted - 02 Feb 2014 : 20:46:23
I want to say Myrkul, I really, really do. But...
If i would look deep inside i think that I probably would have to go between Mystra and Oghma. First of all - Goddess of Magic. She enables everyone to use The Art itself, that is able to warp reality to your whim. If that's not beautiful, I don't know what is :D
Next, Oghma. His whole plane is the grandest library of them all. Literally All.The.Wonderfull.Grimoires.In.The.Multiverse. As a bibliophile im in. Would be sniffin those leather covers and litographed pages for days.
Well, in the end we all fear death so maybe Myrkul isn't a bad choice. Being a Lich has it's advantages after all... ;) |
| Karyl |
Posted - 02 Feb 2014 : 20:12:56
A fascinating question, and particularly on point for me, since my D&D group is embroiled in a play-yourself game... and this is a very real question we've all grappled with! Granted, we are operating as adventurers - yay for danger and injury - so the choices do reflect that.
Two members of us have chosen to become part of the Mystran clergy (a natural turn for faithful spellcasters, after all), and we have one who has very fittingly done the same for Lady Luck. Another two are faithful of Eilistraee, though certainly not members of the clergy. (That in itself is a long tale, worth the telling!)
For my part, however... since the grand premise of our game, and likewise, the subject of this topic, is we are transported into the Realms well; I'm a stubborn Catholic, and that would not be like to change. I would have to argue, after all, that God is the God of all universes.
Had I been born & raised in the Realms, though, I would like as not follow the Triad - and Oghma. I have always been a thinker more than a maker; a reasoner more than a creator; a scientist more than an engineer. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 02 Feb 2014 : 01:12:29
I'd have to say Eilistraee and perhaps Mystra or Oghma. They all represent things that are important to me, and simply because Eilistraee is a drow goddess, doesn't mean I wouldn't still admire her and want to follow her dogma. Dancing, spreading joy, fighting for freedom, music, and giving aid to those in need are all things that appeal to me. And suddenly finding myself in the FR, I'd also respect magic and knowledge as something worth pursuing. |
| Demzer |
Posted - 01 Feb 2014 : 10:46:26
Gond and/or Oghma - Unsure if one or both, but given my hunger for knowledge i would want to dive deep into tomes of lore and tinker with a lot of things in hope of one day shouting "Eat my f*****g bullets, wizard!" while unloading a cartridge in the face of some offending caster
Helm - Because there are a lot of things worth defending in Faerun and because without vigilance everything will just drop into anarchy sooner or later (and i dislike anarchy)
Jergal - Because i find it tremendously reassuring to know there is someone that takes care of the "after" in a precise and orderly manner (and f**k you Kelemvor, we all know Jergal is the mastermind)
Sharess - i would surely pay her for lip servic... erm sorry it's the other way around ... pay lip service to her ... yeah ... of course ... because Sharess
Waukeen - Because she is against hoarding and wants money and wealth to circulate and commerce to bloom and if everyone is richer, everyone is happier (yeah, wealth isn't everything in life, but sure as the Nine Hells it helps)
Hoar - Because i'm vindictive and the guy needs a boost
Beshaba - Because i'm unlucky and maybe she can go mind her own business with a few prayers
Red Knight - Because strategy games and finally a chick in a real armor! Red too!
Savras - Because some insight in the future always helps
Gorm Gulthyn - Because he is the Ultimate Dwarven Helm and needs all the help he can get and it's what i would like to be was i less coward (last stand after last stand in desperate fights because is the right thing to do without giving a s**t for the fact he will die)
Luthic - Ok i know this one is weird but give her more power and i'm sure orcs will stop just butchering everything they find and just for the heck of imagining that the one with the pants at home isn't Gruumsh
Ok maybe you wanted just 1 answer and i gave 12 but, hey, life is complicated. |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 31 Jan 2014 : 12:36:35
Hmm I think I would probably worship Helm or perhaps Mask if I gave in to the dark side. |
| Mapolq |
Posted - 31 Jan 2014 : 03:53:52
Waukeen. Or Lliira. Or back and forth between the two, I think they wouldn't mind.  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Jan 2014 : 14:54:22
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
Erm, Sharess? Who else? 
LOL - an honest man! I agree whole-heartedly.
As much as I would love to espouse some sort altruistic deity to represent my inner core, at heart I am a hedonist. |
| Arcanus |
Posted - 30 Jan 2014 : 14:08:29
Would have to be mystra. I love magic. Nuff said. |
| Ilmarinnen |
Posted - 30 Jan 2014 : 09:10:11
Gond. Definitely Gond.
Especially if I could find emloyment close to my current trade. |
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