| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| jordanz |
Posted - 04 Dec 2013 : 23:49:34
And does this person play a part in the Sundering? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Dec 2013 : 20:05:32
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I'm of a similar opinion as sleyvas on this. Someone made a mistake and that mistake never got corrected.
Still, that mistake getting reprinted makes it official, so live and let homebrew.
True, but even mistakes can have a simple fix, assuming someone takes the time to do so. We've not had one, here. |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 10 Dec 2013 : 18:53:43
I'm of a similar opinion as sleyvas on this. Someone made a mistake and that mistake never got corrected.
Still, that mistake getting reprinted makes it official, so live and let homebrew. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 10 Dec 2013 : 17:11:44
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
HOWEVER, Teylas does not = Talos. Teylas is supposedly Akadi (which makes no sense what-so-ever; Teylas is not only male, but also a warrior-god).
Yeah, I always thought that was very weird... I suppose it could be explained, though, by saying Teylas was "spun off" of Talos, perhaps a demipower or something, and then absorbed by Akadi.
I prefer to say that the author of the Horde boxed set screwed up. I'm sorry, Talos and Teylas match up too well. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Dec 2013 : 14:51:18
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
He was Chosen - its just that back then, only Mystra has Chosen (as it should be), so he wasn't labeled as such. If you read that particular chapter where he goes out into the lightening storm, it is VERY evident that he is an 'agent of the gods'.
Which is why I specifically stated Yamun wasn't exactly a Chosen. My phrasing was intended to reflect the ambiguous nature of the Chosen label back in the older editions.
quote:
HOWEVER, Teylas does not = Talos. Teylas is supposedly Akadi (which makes no sense what-so-ever; Teylas is not only male, but also a warrior-god).
I actually meant Akadi. But I repeated CoA's Talos naming accidentally.  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Dec 2013 : 14:28:41
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
HOWEVER, Teylas does not = Talos. Teylas is supposedly Akadi (which makes no sense what-so-ever; Teylas is not only male, but also a warrior-god).
Yeah, I always thought that was very weird... I suppose it could be explained, though, by saying Teylas was "spun off" of Talos, perhaps a demipower or something, and then absorbed by Akadi. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 10 Dec 2013 : 13:02:27
He was Chosen - its just that back then, only Mystra has Chosen (as it should be), so he wasn't labeled as such. If you read that particular chapter where he goes out into the lightening storm, it is VERY evident that he is an 'agent of the gods'.
HOWEVER, Teylas does not = Talos. Teylas is supposedly Akadi (which makes no sense what-so-ever; Teylas is not only male, but also a warrior-god).
That was the entire basis of my theories that primordials (which elemental lords are) have religions - and grant spells - through intermediaries. When Talos (as Teylas) is being revered as part of his 'storm god' portfolio, he shares that worship with Akadi (and hence the confusion). Just a theory, mind you... but it makes a bit more sense then the canon.
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Dec 2013 : 07:08:09
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I was given to understand that Yamun Khahan was suggested to be a chosen of Talos.
'Twas Teylas/Talos. And Yamun wasn't exactly a Chosen. His unique status was somewhat complicated by the fact that he later popped up as a Ghost in the Spellbound boxed set. Which only further confused the state of his relationship with Teylas/Talos. |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 09 Dec 2013 : 20:05:09
I was given to understand that Yamun Khahan was suggested to be a chosen of Talos. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 09 Dec 2013 : 19:28:45
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
I've never heard of a Chosen of Tempus (not that one doesn't exist somewhere). I think most answers would be more speculation than fact. You've got me wondering about any NPCs out there that may travel around the Realms promoting warfare and still not be obvious enough to be pegged as his Chosen. Perhaps, as a promoters of war, such individuals tend to die frequently (thus preventing others from realizing they were Chosen).
The last time I heard of a chosen of Tempus was when Yamun Khahan was supposedly. |
| jordanz |
Posted - 08 Dec 2013 : 07:01:39
quote:
Not trying to troll ... just pointing out that a war god will attack anything, anytime, he takes what he wants, he puts war in your face and forces you to fight back, even if only defensively and only as a reluctant “last resort“. Even your death can serve him. Cowards who flee from combat do not interest him.
Depends on the war god.... |
| Demzer |
Posted - 07 Dec 2013 : 19:44:07
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I wonder if how he conceals catapults in his pockets.
Very special gloves of storing is my guess. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 07 Dec 2013 : 18:58:23
Hmm, I suppose I stand corrected, athough I really can‘t imagine Tempus selecting any Chosen from the ranks of those who fought really, really well yet still ultimately lost. Moreso given that most of the losers would be dead or crippled or (if lucky) subjugated or enslaved. Even the king of the Spartans - as ridiculously competent and epic as he and his troop were - happened to be slaughtered to the very last man. Perhaps his legendary battle/sacrifice would‘ve turned out differently if he truly were the Chosen of a war god.
That Tempusan liturgy isn‘t entirely bad, but it seems (to me) too contrived and carefully inoffensive, almost like a democratic political charter or effacement towards Tyr or Torm. Tempus takes his war where he wills, he doesn‘t battle to serve the grand ideals of lesser gods - any cause (just or unjust, good or evil, noble or vengeful or abhorrent) is worth fighting for the fight itself. A column of glowing mounted paladins is no more worthy to Tempus than a marauding bandit king who rapes and burns and pillages. War is not intrinsically evil to Tempus, it is a (manmade) natural force, a simple self-evident fact. Remember, this is a god whose special blessing can instill a mindless, murderous berserk rage in anyone.
Not trying to troll ... just pointing out that a war god will attack anything, anytime, he takes what he wants, he puts war in your face and forces you to fight back, even if only defensively and only as a reluctant “last resort“. Even your death can serve him. Cowards who flee from combat do not interest him. Skill at arms, tactics, strategy, and the like are more the purview of Tempus‘s agent, the Red Knight, while honor and duty and suchlike are dictated by the obedient soldier god, Torm, and justice/revenge and anger and hatred and destruction and strife by a smattering of other gods - these sorts of details probably only interest Tempus insofar as they can be used to generate and sustain more war.
It has been said that Tempus carries on his person every kind of weapon ever invented for war. I wonder if how he conceals catapults in his pockets. |
| Gyor |
Posted - 07 Dec 2013 : 14:03:51
@Arcanus I guess that's why Tempus is Neutral and not evil, even if war itself is evil.
That bit about Tempus never attacking from the rear and using trickery and the like is why I can see some Generals rejecting Tempus in favour of a more pragmatic Martial Deity, Bast, who I can see valuing clever tactics over fairness and all that not sense. |
| Gyor |
Posted - 07 Dec 2013 : 05:20:41
@Arcanus I guess that's why Tempus is Neutral and not evil, even if war itself is evil.
That bit about Tempus never attacking from the rear and using trickery and the like is why I can see some Generals rejecting Tempus in favour of a more pragmatic Martial Deity, Bast, who I can see valuing clever tactics over fairness and all that not sense. |
| genebateman |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 23:12:15
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I�d say it doesn�t matter much who shows the most valorous, puissant, formidable, skillful, or agressive capacities in battle. Treachery and deception and slaughter are also irrelevant, indeed they are simply elements of war. Tempus is not about those things.
True, he may disdain cowardice and elevate glory. Thus he would tend to favour aggression ... but even slippery rogues and anemic wizards can fight, it�s not impossible for anyone (excepting those peacenik priests of Eldath) to serve Tempus, willingly or otherwise.
Tempus represents battles and victories. If he must choose a Chosen then it will be somebody warlike and victorious. There is no substitute for success, victory is all that matters.
as for Eldath i changed her a lil in my campaign from Cannon. in my game she is actually the daughter of Sune and Tempus. that is why he dont like his followers attacking hers. and in some instances he smote them |
| Arcanus |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 21:42:45
That seems like a more Torm-like attitude to war. |
| jordanz |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 18:06:36
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
I respectfully disagree, the outcome is secondary. Instead it's the process of WAR that matters ....and specifically to Tempus HOW it's waged matters. So IMo he would definitely side with the 300 Spartans in a losing battle to the Persians , because their actions (even in defeat) inspired more valorous warfare.
You are contradicting yourself. You cant say only the war matters then say Tempus would favour one side or the other.
You are right when you say that only the war matters to him tho. As long as there is a decent dust up he is happy.
Normally i'd agree but I guess Gods can forfeit portions of their portfolio which they find to be distasteful.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tempus
"Some scholars in the Realms believed that Tempus' dislike of mindless slaughter and bloodlust prompted him to spare Garagos so that he could represent those more vicious aspects of war. This was supported by the fact that the Tempuran liturgy stressed honorable combat, not wanton destruction."
Tempus' orders to all combatants were simple and direct:
1. Be fearless 2. Never turn away from a fight. 3. Obey the rules of war.[10]
“ "Tempus does not win battles, he helps the deserving warrior win battles. War is fair in that it oppresses and aids all equally and that in any given battle, a mortal may be slain or become a great leader among his or her companions. It should not be feared, but seen as a natural force, a human force, the storm that civilization brings by its very existence. Arm all for whom battle is needful, even foes. Retreat from hopeless fights but never avoid battle. Slay one foe decisively and halt a battle quickly rather than rely upon slow attrition or the senseless dragging on of hostilities. Remember the dead that fell before you. Defend what you believe in, lest it be swept away. Disparage no foe and respect all, for valor blazes in all regardless of age, sex, or race. Tempus looks with favor upon those that acquit themselves honorably in battle without resorting to such craven tricks as destroying homes, family, or livestock when a foe is away or attacking from the rear (except when such an attack is launched by a small band against foes of vastly superior numbers). Consider the consequences of the violence of war, and do not wage war recklessly. The smooth-tongued and fleet of feet that avoid all strife and never defend their beliefs wreak more harm than the most energetic tyrant, raider, or horde leader."
— Tempuran liturgy
|
| Arcanus |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 12:36:35
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I‘d say it doesn‘t matter much who shows the most valorous, puissant, formidable, skillful, or agressive capacities in battle. Treachery and deception and slaughter are also irrelevant, indeed they are simply elements of war. Tempus is not about those things.
True, he may disdain cowardice and elevate glory. Thus he would tend to favour aggression ... but even slippery rogues and anemic wizards can fight, it‘s not impossible for anyone (excepting those peacenik priests of Eldath) to serve Tempus, willingly or otherwise.
Tempus represents battles and victories. If he must choose a Chosen then it will be somebody warlike and victorious. There is no substitute for success, victory is all that matters.
I respectfully disagree, the outcome is secondary. Instead it's the process of WAR that matters ....and specifically to Tempus HOW it's waged matters. So IMo he would definitely side with the 300 Spartans in a losing battle to the Persians , because their actions (even in defeat) inspired more valorous warfare.
You are contradicting yourself. You cant say only the war matters then say Tempus would favour one side or the other.
You are right when you say that only the war matters to him tho. As long as there is a decent dust up he is happy.
|
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 04:30:03
quote:
I respectfully disagree, the outcome is secondary. Instead it's the process of WAR that matters ....and specifically to Tempus HOW it's waged matters. So IMo he would definitely side with the 300 Spartans in a losing battle to the Persians , because their actions (even in defeat) inspired more valorous warfare.
Here here I second this.
quote:
I believe, though I don't know if it was ever specifically spelled out, that this was specified to address the common complaint levied against the Realms as a setting; what's the point in the PC's when you have all these superpowerful god-chosen running around who can solve any problem of any significance? Whether or not that complaint was valid is a matter of debate, but it's still something that the setting was often accused of. So, start of 4e, no chosen unless your own players reach that level themselves, or your dm wants to make their own npc's.
I SOOOO want to comment on this but don't want to derail the topic into another inane debate.  |
| jordanz |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 04:11:30
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I‘d say it doesn‘t matter much who shows the most valorous, puissant, formidable, skillful, or agressive capacities in battle. Treachery and deception and slaughter are also irrelevant, indeed they are simply elements of war. Tempus is not about those things.
True, he may disdain cowardice and elevate glory. Thus he would tend to favour aggression ... but even slippery rogues and anemic wizards can fight, it‘s not impossible for anyone (excepting those peacenik priests of Eldath) to serve Tempus, willingly or otherwise.
Tempus represents battles and victories. If he must choose a Chosen then it will be somebody warlike and victorious. There is no substitute for success, victory is all that matters.
I respectfully disagree, the outcome is secondary. Instead it's the process of WAR that matters ....and specifically to Tempus HOW it's waged matters. So IMo he would definitely side with the 300 Spartans in a losing battle to the Persians , because their actions (even in defeat) inspired more valorous warfare. |
| jordanz |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 04:07:00
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I‘d say it doesn‘t matter much who shows the most valorous, puissant, formidable, skillful, or agressive capacities in battle. Treachery and deception and slaughter are also irrelevant, indeed they are simply elements of war. Tempus is not about those things.
True, he may disdain cowardice and elevate glory. Thus he would tend to favour aggression ... but even slippery rogues and anemic wizards can fight, it‘s not impossible for anyone (excepting those peacenik priests of Eldath) to serve Tempus, willingly or otherwise.
Tempus represents battles and victories. If he must choose a Chosen then it will be somebody warlike and victorious. There is no substitute for success, victory is all that matters.
|
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 23:10:55
Officially at the start of the 4th edition, 1479 I believe, there were no chosen active on Toril. They'd all either died, ascended to godhood, or simply lost their status.
I believe, though I don't know if it was ever specifically spelled out, that this was specified to address the common complaint levied against the Realms as a setting; what's the point in the PC's when you have all these superpowerful god-chosen running around who can solve any problem of any significance? Whether or not that complaint was valid is a matter of debate, but it's still something that the setting was often accused of. So, start of 4e, no chosen unless your own players reach that level themselves, or your dm wants to make their own npc's.
That having been said, I've likewise never heard of Tempus having a chosen, except maybe Uthgar, and that's far from current. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 22:54:43
I‘d say it doesn‘t matter much who shows the most valorous, puissant, formidable, skillful, or agressive capacities in battle. Treachery and deception and slaughter are also irrelevant, indeed they are simply elements of war. Tempus is not about those things.
True, he may disdain cowardice and elevate glory. Thus he would tend to favour aggression ... but even slippery rogues and anemic wizards can fight, it‘s not impossible for anyone (excepting those peacenik priests of Eldath) to serve Tempus, willingly or otherwise.
Tempus represents battles and victories. If he must choose a Chosen then it will be somebody warlike and victorious. There is no substitute for success, victory is all that matters. |
| Tamsar |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 20:58:16
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
He got tired of being the chosen and swapped positions with Vashanka. I think last I heard, Vashanka was down in Westgate. For those that get this, 2 points.
That was weak. Now I've got a headache, time to get an Asprin :) |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 17:39:04
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
I am getting really tired with all of these chosen coming out of the woodwork. Sigh.....
The deity of woodwork is quite down with it, though. 
The deity of working wood? Is that Sharess? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 17:30:37
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
I am getting really tired with all of these chosen coming out of the woodwork. Sigh.....
The deity of woodwork is quite down with it, though. |
| Arcanus |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 17:11:23
I am getting really tired with all of these chosen coming out of the woodwork. Sigh..... |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 14:13:59
He got tired of being the chosen and swapped positions with Vashanka. I think last I heard, Vashanka was down in Westgate. For those that get this, 2 points. |
| Madpig |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 08:25:58
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
If one reads the Sundering series it hints that the Gods mostly have multiple chosen now, how many appears to be unknown. I'd even say its likely that Tempus now has many chosen.
No names for you though or powers, at least not yet.
Perhaps the newly reincarnated (spoiler -highlight) Wulgar is one of those chosen....
Have to say it was first thing that came to my mind.
Also, Catti has special relationship with multiple gods. Bruenor was blessed by and mayby chosen of Moradin. And D-boy is speculated to be chosen of Mielikki. So there you have it. Only Regis has no special relationship with any god. |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 08:24:25
well the last one that I think could possibly one that might have been Chosen of TEmpus at one point has since become a goddess, Namely the Red Knight |
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