| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 06 Nov 2013 : 03:46:50
Just a quick question, does anyone know approximately how many Netherese Enclaves existed at their height? The FR Wiki states that about 1/year were being raised during the Golden Age...this seems a bit extreme to me. |
| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 08 Nov 2013 : 05:22:09
That might be a function of floating amongst the clouds :P |
| The Sage |
Posted - 08 Nov 2013 : 04:40:25
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
quote:
Netheril was a big area... It's likely that at any given point, you'd not see more than 2 or 3 enclaves, if that many. They didn't travel in one huge flock; they each drifted around on the whims of their respective archmages.
True, but the Golden Age covered centuries...not to mention the enclaves created before and after that period. If taken literally, it would mean hundreds of enclaves floating around simultaneously, which is just too much, IMO. Also, that's a ton of arcanists capable of casting 10th-level spells, also too much (that is assuming most wizards created their mythalars themselves and raised their enclaves themselves as well...which is what the lore implies).
Now, if there was a 'service' industry for the creating of enclaves for those with the funds but not the power...then a few more could have been floating around...but I doubt many would have been raised in this fashion.
Nope, not hundreds. Canon says 54. So I stand by my thinking that you'd rarely see more than 2 or 3.
I can't immediately recall which Netheril-centric source I remember this vaguely from [or whether it may have even been the Netheril chapter in Lost Empires of Faerūn], but there was a brief snippet of text written from the perspective of an inhabitant of Lower Netheril who once reported that it was rare to even see ONE enclave floating above a few times in one's life, let alone TWO or MORE. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Nov 2013 : 03:55:35
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
quote:
Netheril was a big area... It's likely that at any given point, you'd not see more than 2 or 3 enclaves, if that many. They didn't travel in one huge flock; they each drifted around on the whims of their respective archmages.
True, but the Golden Age covered centuries...not to mention the enclaves created before and after that period. If taken literally, it would mean hundreds of enclaves floating around simultaneously, which is just too much, IMO. Also, that's a ton of arcanists capable of casting 10th-level spells, also too much (that is assuming most wizards created their mythalars themselves and raised their enclaves themselves as well...which is what the lore implies).
Now, if there was a 'service' industry for the creating of enclaves for those with the funds but not the power...then a few more could have been floating around...but I doubt many would have been raised in this fashion.
Nope, not hundreds. Canon says 54. So I stand by my thinking that you'd rarely see more than 2 or 3. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 08 Nov 2013 : 02:40:30
I look at it this way: if over the course of 5 centuries, 3 were allowed per year - that is still a lot :P ... Plus there is nothing saying you could not have 5 looking at the different sections of the set at the same time. Get that snowballing and all of a sudden there are thousands of archwizards in Netheril |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 08 Nov 2013 : 01:52:07
That is true MM but I always found those numbers to be a bit artificial (as in overkill without a purpose). Also, it WAS Karsus' Enclave and I don't think those levels would necessarily reflect a typical city. Then again, if the average wizard was afforded some time with the Nether Scrolls then those numbers could have been typical. It just seems to me that most mages would have to 'prove' their worthiness to study the scrolls with the most naturally talented arcanists being allowed access over others. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 08 Nov 2013 : 01:11:58
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
quote:
Netheril was a big area... It's likely that at any given point, you'd not see more than 2 or 3 enclaves, if that many. They didn't travel in one huge flock; they each drifted around on the whims of their respective archmages.
True, but the Golden Age covered centuries...not to mention the enclaves created before and after that period. If taken literally, it would mean hundreds of enclaves floating around simultaneously, which is just too much, IMO. Also, that's a ton of arcanists capable of casting 10th-level spells, also too much (that is assuming most wizards created their mythalars themselves and raised their enclaves themselves as well...which is what the lore implies).
Now, if there was a 'service' industry for the creating of enclaves for those with the funds but not the power...then a few more could have been floating around...but I doubt many would have been raised in this fashion.
I would point out that 10th level magic were almost common in Netheril. The number of arcanists of sufficient level listed as living is Karsus enclave alone in NEOM was 52 - with another 20 or so within 1 or 2 levels of having enough mastery. That is in 1 enclave. This clearly demonstrates that not every arcanist desired to rule their own enclave or raise their own flying city. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 08 Nov 2013 : 01:11:02
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
quote:
Netheril was a big area... It's likely that at any given point, you'd not see more than 2 or 3 enclaves, if that many. They didn't travel in one huge flock; they each drifted around on the whims of their respective archmages.
True, but the Golden Age covered centuries...not to mention the enclaves created before and after that period. If taken literally, it would mean hundreds of enclaves floating around simultaneously, which is just too much, IMO. Also, that's a ton of arcanists capable of casting 10th-level spells, also too much (that is assuming most wizards created their mythalars themselves and raised their enclaves themselves as well...which is what the lore implies).
Now, if there was a 'service' industry for the creating of enclaves for those with the funds but not the power...then a few more could have been floating around...but I doubt many would have been raised in this fashion.
I would point out that 10th level magic were almost common in Netheril. The number of arcanists of sufficient level listed as living is Karsus enclave alone in NEOM was 52 - with another 20 or so within 1 or 2 levels of having enough mastery. That is in 1 enclave. This clearly demonstrates that not every arcanist desired to rule their own enclave or raise their own flying city. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 07 Nov 2013 : 23:48:28
quote:
Netheril was a big area... It's likely that at any given point, you'd not see more than 2 or 3 enclaves, if that many. They didn't travel in one huge flock; they each drifted around on the whims of their respective archmages.
True, but the Golden Age covered centuries...not to mention the enclaves created before and after that period. If taken literally, it would mean hundreds of enclaves floating around simultaneously, which is just too much, IMO. Also, that's a ton of arcanists capable of casting 10th-level spells, also too much (that is assuming most wizards created their mythalars themselves and raised their enclaves themselves as well...which is what the lore implies).
Now, if there was a 'service' industry for the creating of enclaves for those with the funds but not the power...then a few more could have been floating around...but I doubt many would have been raised in this fashion. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Nov 2013 : 14:40:12
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Thanks for the responses guys, the list seems appropriate to me. I just had a hard time visualizing the skies riddled with floating cities/castles, even for the 'ancient titanic magic' that Netheril commanded.
Netheril was a big area... It's likely that at any given point, you'd not see more than 2 or 3 enclaves, if that many. They didn't travel in one huge flock; they each drifted around on the whims of their respective archmages. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 07 Nov 2013 : 13:17:28
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Eric Boyd and I did a list of enclaves in LEoF with suitably Netherese names on p.108. True to the sources we noted that there were 54 floating cities, but in my Realms the full "city" enclaves numbered about a dozen, with another twenty or so being the equivalent of very big castle complexes and the rest being a cluster of towers on a rock outcrop.
-- George Krashos
On this topic, I can see the full city enclaves as being the ones with multiple mythallars of varying "types" as discussed in other topics recently. They'd probably need them just to "fuel" all their needs. The smaller "cluster of towers" enclaves would be more likely to have a single mythallar. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 07 Nov 2013 : 00:03:46
Thanks for the responses guys, the list seems appropriate to me. I just had a hard time visualizing the skies riddled with floating cities/castles, even for the 'ancient titanic magic' that Netheril commanded. |
| Asharak |
Posted - 06 Nov 2013 : 12:59:02
3 more
? : Negarath ?
? : Undrentine -339
? : Synode -339 |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 06 Nov 2013 : 10:31:02
Eric Boyd and I did a list of enclaves in LEoF with suitably Netherese names on p.108. True to the sources we noted that there were 54 floating cities, but in my Realms the full "city" enclaves numbered about a dozen, with another twenty or so being the equivalent of very big castle complexes and the rest being a cluster of towers on a rock outcrop.
-- George Krashos |
| Asharak |
Posted - 06 Nov 2013 : 10:16:01
All dates in DR
-2954 : Ioulaum / Xinlenal -339
-2686 : Quagmire / Akintaer -339
-2642 : Palter -339
-2612 : Sanctuary / Orbedal -339
-2510 : Spiel -339
-2267 : Shadowtop Borough / Aquessir -342
-2019 : Jockteleg -339
-1926 : Opus / Selūnarra save by Selūne
? : Sunrest / Maunator -1657
-1647 : Buoyance / Phylornel -339
-1645 : Doubloon -442
-1471 : Shade / Thultanthar save by Shar
-1401 : Delia -339
-1114 : Yeoman' Loft / Farenwey -339
? : Tanathras -647
-674 : Karsus/ Eileanar -339
-502 : Lachery -339
? : Nhalloth -339
? : Sakkors -339
? : Anauria 111
? : Asram -33
? : Hlondath 329
? : Hlaungadath ?
? : Jethaere ?
? : Jiksidur -339
? : Lhaoda -427
? : Nhallen ?
? : Tith-Tilendrothael -427 |
| charger_ss24 |
Posted - 06 Nov 2013 : 05:05:53
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
These were also all on the map provided. I'd say there were others, but not many.
Sakkors being one. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 06 Nov 2013 : 04:19:01
These were also all on the map provided. I'd say there were others, but not many. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 06 Nov 2013 : 04:18:03
The arcane age lists these Enclaves by name
Bouyance
Dagger's Point was an enclave but not a floating city.
Delia
Doubloon
Delia
Ioulam
Jockteleg
Karsus Enclave
Lachery
Opus
Palter
Quagmire
Sanctuary
Shade
Shadowtop Borough
Spiel |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 06 Nov 2013 : 03:52:56
I'd say that meant for a short period of time - not throughout the entire Golden Age. There would have been no mountain left anywhere nearby. |
