| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Knightfall |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 21:45:07
Okay, I just had a thought. Why in the world would the most powerful people in the Realms stay on the world, if they had the chance to escape the continuous RSEs?
Sure, the common people wouldn't have a choice, but if a person gains enough power to planewalk elsewhere, why wouldn't they stay away completely? There would have to be another world, somewhere, that would be safer to live on.
Of course, the question depends on which cosmology we choose to associate the Realms with. Since the 4E cosmology is the standard (for good or ill), it might be the cosmology to speculate with until the new 5E cosmology is fully revealed.
(Perhaps WotC will go back to the unique 3E cosmology described in the FRCS, or perhaps they will go back to having the Realms as part of a Planescape-like cosmology.)
Regardless, if there is even a chance that a powerful planewalker can "get out of dodge," why wouldn't he/she make that choice? For if the RSEs are hard on the REAL us, imagine how hard it is on the FICTIONAL them.
Just some thoughts... |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Knightfall |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 08:24:47
Let's escalate this idea: Toril is, for whatever reason, soon to become unlivable. The world just dies and the powers-that-be cannot stop it from happening.
What would the Chosen do? Would they try to save as much as they can and find a new world for survivors? Would they move elsewhere in Realmspace, assuming the whole Crystal Sphere isn't doomed?
Who would abandon the ship and leave the mundanes to die with the world?
Who would stay and die with the world? |
| Knightfall |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 07:37:57
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
That answer would vary from one individual to the next. Elminster, for instance, will do everything in his power to make the Realms a better place for all...so abandoning ship is out of the question.
You're right that Elminster would never abandon his world. In order for him to leave the entire world would have to be destroyed, and he'd do anything to prevent that from happening. He'd sacrifice himself before letting the world die, IMO.
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
For others it may be that they don't feel there is a good alternative (that they know of, at least).
Others may simply love where they live and not want to leave. Conversely, perhaps there are others whom they love that want to stay...and so the individual chooses to remain with them.
Sure, not everyone would know what to do or be willing to abandon their kin, but I'm sure there would be more than a few individuals that don't have any strong ties to family or friends who would say, "I'm out of here."
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Still others may simply lack the means to leave despite being 'powerful' as you say. In the end, only folks with access to world-spanning magic would be able to leave...and that magic is actually a bit rare. Add to that the fact that some folks, after the collapse of the Weave, were simply unable to wrap their minds around how to formulate new magic (and thus could not accomplish the world-walking feat).
Well, I've noted in the various 3E sourcebooks that there are more than a few NPCs that are archmages. So assuming we look at the Spellplague, specifically, anyone who survives the initial catastrophe would be, IMO, eager to relocate. The world that they knew has changed significantly and there aren't any guarantees that they will continue to have the same resources or allies in a post-Spellplague Toril.
I look at what happened to the Shining South and the Old Empires, and I can't imagine the people, even those with significant magical abilities, would just take it in stride. I'd be pissed! And I would blame the gods. After all, faith is what binds the world together even for powerful wizards and the like.
Of course, getting off the world could be a challenge if we assume Mystra's death strips the most powerful arcanists of their powers. They're screwed.
I can see a mage who had a chance to leave during the Time of Troubles but decided to stay, bemoaning her life after the goddess falls. Perhaps she turns to Shar in desperation or hunts for an ancient portal that will lead her to anywhere else.
Sad wizards drinking themselves to stupor and crying for the Old World.
A mad wizard trying to open up the gates of time to escape to the world's past in hopes of stopping the worst of the calamities to come or to destroy the gods that failed him.
If I were a surviving wizard of Halruaa, I'd be hunting for a new homeworld. A place to rebuild the civilization I lost and perhaps, one day, return to Toril to lay waste to the world that ripped apart my heart and soul.
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
And then, I think we must assume, some folks actually DID leave. We just don't know about them. After a century, most would assume 'the wizard in yon tower died or departed many years ago.' That may be the extent of it.
True, I was reading the thread about whether or not the 100 year gap should be filled in. Well, I think it would be a good choice for a web enhancement. Something for the 4E fans (no, I'm not a diehard 4E fan) and for the rest of us that want some clarification on: What The Hell Happened During Those Years? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 03:35:45
Let's take these RSE's and put them under a microscope for a second and compare them to an individual. Let's just for instance use a Thayan named Sleyvas. So, 1st RSE... the time of troubles. Well, the gods walked the earth and magic went wonky. So, he couldn't rely on his magical skills during said time and go somewhere else, but he had his backup skills as a warrior. Its also right on the heels of the end of the salamander war, during which he'd begun to establish himself as a decent military leader with moderate magical skills. So, he "soldiers through" much better than his fellow red wizards, and even takes advantage of the mess to eliminate some rivals by spitting them on a sword.
A year later, he's sucked into Ravenloft into a domain (Hazlan) which has Bane as a deity (which surprises him, because Bane is dead in the realms). What's more, Bane has been forced to take an avatar. The avatar of Bane and the domain's ruler (Hazlik, a former red wizard whom Sleyvas' Thayan master had humiliated) are at war with one another, and Sleyvas finds himself having to take sides with the avatar of Bane (i.e. Sleyvas is an NPC serving Bane... the players are trapped in Ravenloft... and it was my homebrew idea that Bane was in avatar form... the campaign was short lived, but fun... the players turned evil really quick).
Sleyvas spends "time" trapped in this Ravenloft domain before finding a way to escape to another area of Raveloft, during which he finds his magic somewhat dangerous... the masque of the red death campaign setting... in which he finds his magic even more erratic. He's trapped here for a long time (a little over a decade), whereupon he gains a basic understanding of gun technology and works as a bounty hunter in the old west (and gets involved with a powerful witch). (translation: pure story here, and was some character building with an old friend, and this lead into the storyline of Sleyvas having a son that he was never aware of).
So, after a dozen'ish years trapped in other worlds where magic sucked, he finally gets home to Toril... and seemingly only a couple monthss have passed (translation: I made up the idea that time flowed differently in the Masque of the red death campaign). He's a more accomplished wizard than he was before, having spent decades studying the underpinnings of magic. He catches his rivals unawares and advances amongst the Thayan hierarchy. Times are great.
So, the next RSE happens... the Tuigan horde invades... the red wizards use them as pawns. Sleyvas finds it funny.
Also, during this time, the "Banedeath" wars between Cyricists and Banites happen. Sleyvas cheers the Cyricists only because he got fed up with Bane in Hazlan. Meanwhile, he continues to build a name for himself as a bounty hunter who hunts Cyricists, Banites, followers of nearly any other religion, and most especially wizards. In particular, he also takes on jobs requiring discretion for Zulkir Lauzoril.
Meanwhile, Eltabbar suffers a major earthquake. This isn't an RSE, but it causes major local issues, and chance to assault mages whose magical fortresses are in need of repair. Times are good.
So, the next RSE happens... the threat from the sea. Sleyvas pretty much doesn't know its going on, but at some point his house is flooded in Bezantur because some jackass blew up the ship of the gods. While annoyed, he pretty much reacts like people do when a hurricane passes... he enslaved some foreigners and put them to work rebuilding his house using money he acquired by looting the houses of the dead following the tidal wave (thank god for his rope trick spell). He then goes and smacks around some Mulhorandi in helping his country retake the Alaor, while some other red wizards decide to go chasing sahuagin under the water (Sleyvas offers to help if they'll message him, but he doesn't feel like running around under the water).
So, the next RSE's happens... Halaster's Highharvesttide and the destruction of Hellgate Keep. Sleyvas hears about it too late to go join the fun. Other people got to do all the looting. Sleyvas decides to go drink.
Not an RSE, but around this time, Sleyvas does some politically incorrect things (long story... involves some time travel, rescuing his wife from the past, and getting involved with witches of Rashemen). He fakes his own death through swapping bodies and eventually flees to Chessenta and takes up residence in Soorenar.
So, the next RSE happens... Evermeet is attacked. Sleyvas doesn't even know it happened.
So, the next RSE happens... Shade enclave returns. Sleyvas' only interest is in hunting down lone Shadovar to learn more about these people. He doesn't find any particularly powerful magic and he decides against trying to challenge the leader's of Shade Enclave. Its a profitable venture... no one really complains or links him to the murders. Sleyvas does hear that Evereska was attacked, which makes him smile.
So, the next "RSE" happens... Mulhorand and Unther go to war. Result, Sleyvas gets jobs to kill off officers in the Mulhorandi army. Doesn't quite pay what he'd like, so he decides to sit on the sidelines and watch what happens.
So, the next "RSE" happens... Lolth goes silent and the drow go nuts. Sleyvas never hears about it, but he's becoming very friendly with the clergy of the temple of the red knight. He begins training a young cleric/mage who beats him playing a card game of "Wheel of Spells", offering up lessons as his bets (he gains a fondness for this bright young cleric, and Sleyvas actually begins attending services of the Red Knight).
So, the next "RSE" happens... The Dragon Rage and the return of Tchazzar... During this time, Sleyvas kills an adult dragon with the aid of some Soorenar based followers of the red knight. Unfortunately, he doesn't know where their lairs are, so the loot is lost to him (he figures others with more time to spare will probably find and loot the lair first). When Tchazzar returns and attacks the fleets, Sleyvas feels no "patriotic" feelings towards his adopted country and opts to live and fight another day (i.e. when better prepared for such an encounter), rescuing the young red knight priest in the process. The two take up mercenary work with some others, Sleyvas letting the young red knight lead the mercenary company and simply enjoying being the muscle should they get in trouble. He finds himself enjoying life again.
So, the next "RSE" happens..... Myth Drannor is recovered by Elves. Hillsfar is toppled. The Daemonfey are routed. Sleyvas hears about it, considers performing some hit and run assaults, decides to keep on drinking.... and he decides he's going to bed that cute young blonde sitting in the corner (sure, he's thirty years older than her, but he's certain he can get her interest).
So, the next wave of "RSE's" happen, and Sembia, the dalelands and Cormyr and Zhentil Keep are all involved. Sleyvas keeps an eye out on the war with Mulhorand and Unther. He's also getting really good at strategy games from playing against red knight followers.
So, the next RSE happens.... Thay goes into a civil war. Szass Tam against the Zulkirs. Having never liked Tam, Sleyvas encourages the red knight mercenary to lead his men over to get paid by the Zulkirs (secretly revealing to Lauzoril that he isn't actually dead). Its like old times again. He finds that killing necromancers is like eating potato chips, you can't just do one. This goes on for years (during which he finds out his son's ex-wife, Lady Jillian Doncastle of Neverwinter, a mage-priest of Deneir, has made him a grandfather). Sleyvas begins visiting Waterdeep in disguise regularly to check up on his grandchildren (though always revealing his true identity to his ex-daughter in law and his grandchildren). During one such visit, he and Lady Jillian get involved in a mystery surrounding the sudden disappearance of Mirt the Moneylender... then the spellplague happened.... what happened next is cloudy.
So, in short... Sleyvas went to other worlds, and he found them full of magic issues, and all he wanted to do was get home. For the most part, the RSE's didn't affect him much, up until the spellplague.
|
| Ayrik |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 01:35:54
The fantasy (and sci-fi) genre can offer landscapes and possibilities bounded only by the limits of our human imagination. And yet one of the most evocative recurring themes is for characters to always remember their origins and - no matter where their travels may take them - always yearn to return home.
Many of the truly powerful characters from the Realms (and Oerth, Krynn, etc) do indeed travel elsewhere throughout the D&D cosmos; such is the basic foundation of Spelljammer and Planescape settings. Most do eventually return to their homeworld, as a central base of operations if nothing else - powerful characters also enjoy some unique advantages when on their "native" plane/world, and suffer some unique disadvantages elsewhere, so it's often best for them to spend some quality time at home anyhow.
"Powerful" itself is an abstracted term ... much "power" is based on local friends and deities and resources. Characters from the Realms rarely have the ability to access all their "power" when far away from home, it tends to be anchored and concentrated and diluted in all sorts of intangible ways; castles and wizard towers and magical libraries, the local alchemist, the best ale in town, gossip about one's friends, heroic reputation, and your friendly neighbourhood blacksmith just won't all (usually) fit in your backpack.
[Edit]
Why would powerful characters come to the Realms from elsewhere? Some seek adventure, suffer from wanderlust, are lost, whatever. Many are drawn to the Realms because the Realms reeks of unique powers and people with power have a tendency to ambitiously seek ever more power. |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 01:05:53
Here is a good question, why do the powerful keep coming to toril ;) |
| Gyor |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 00:33:52
Social obligation. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 00:18:45
Honestly, it's like people who live in areas where certain natural disasters are more likely... Ask someone in southern California why they choose to live where there are so many earthquakes, or a Floridian to live where there are so many hurricanes... A large part of it is going to be "Well, yeah, it happens sometimes, but we've been lucky so far!"
I've aired my share of complaints about the flood of RSEs, but very few of them have affected all corners of the Realms, they are usually are least a few years apart, and until the Era of Upheaval, they were practically non-existent. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 00:16:34
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
quote:
Originally posted by Knightfall
Okay, I just had a thought. Why in the world would the most powerful people in the Realms stay on the world, if they had the chance to escape the continuous RSEs?
Personally? Well... I hate to reveal things, but...
Taco Tuesdays at Mother Tathlorn's House of Pleasure and Healing in Waterdeep. She also makes a fantastic margarita (well, once I showed her how, and supplied her with the tequila). 
Name one other place where you can get your feet massaged while taking a mineral bath soak and have tacos.
You can't.
 |
| Therise |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 22:48:19
quote:
Originally posted by Knightfall
Okay, I just had a thought. Why in the world would the most powerful people in the Realms stay on the world, if they had the chance to escape the continuous RSEs?
Personally? Well... I hate to reveal things, but...
Taco Tuesdays at Mother Tathlorn's House of Pleasure and Healing in Waterdeep. She also makes a fantastic margarita (well, once I showed her how, and supplied her with the tequila).
Name one other place where you can get your feet massaged while taking a mineral bath soak and have tacos.
You can't.
|
| Hawkins |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 22:28:07
Khelben Blackstaff actually did leave Toril, and his (great?)uncle assumed his role in Waterdeep. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 22:01:02
Another thought just came to mind. Most RSEs on a grand scale happened across the planes. Many may have assumed that what happened to Toril also happened elsewhere...so they may not have seen the point in uprooting. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 21:59:17
That answer would vary from one individual to the next. Elminster, for instance, will do everything in his power to make the Realms a better place for all...so abandoning ship is out of the question.
For others it may be that they don't feel there is a good alternative (that they know of, at least).
Others may simply love where they live and not want to leave. Conversely, perhaps there are others whom they love that want to stay...and so the individual chooses to remain with them.
Still others may simply lack the means to leave despite being 'powerful' as you say. In the end, only folks with access to world-spanning magic would be able to leave...and that magic is actually a bit rare. Add to that the fact that some folks, after the collapse of the Weave, were simply unable to wrap their minds around how to formulate new magic (and thus could not accomplish the world-walking feat).
And then, I think we must assume, some folks actually DID leave. We just don't know about them. After a century, most would assume 'the wizard in yon tower died or departed many years ago.' That may be the extent of it. |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 21:54:29
I'd guess that those powerful enough aren't really bothered by most RSEs. Those that are bothered the most are not yet powerfull enough to just walk, and then there are some in the middle who likely do leave whenever Mystra's been looking sick lately ;) |
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