| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 31 May 2013 : 20:22:12
Let me start off by saying I know a lot of us aren't fond of 4E realms (I'm one of them). Please, if you have no positive input for this particular thread, please don't add to it. I'd like this to be a nice reference thread for people like me who would like to see "the good stuff written for 4E".
Over time I've had people point out an article here and there from dragon or dungeon (which I don't subscribe to whatever wizards calls their online service, but I might for a month or two to download "the good stuff") that's been written since 4E came out. For those who have kept up with a lot of the 4E changes, are there any specific articles that you'd recommend. For instance, I know there was an article about Auril that I enjoyed (except for the Talos/Gruumsh thing). There was another article about the moonshaes. If you can provide links, that's even better. If there was a particular product that was lore heavy and worth buying, maybe mention it. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 10 Jun 2013 : 02:09:13
not sure about shadowfell, but look at the wilds book set, they cover allot of feywild things, as far as it affects things coming into the prime. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Jun 2013 : 23:08:47
hmmm, so just wondering was there any feywild or shadowfell articles that were really groundbreaking? That was the one thing that caught my eye at the outset of 4E was that they seemed like they really wanted to develop those "worlds". |
| Tarlyn |
Posted - 07 Jun 2013 : 11:15:39
Technically speaking, Ed Greenwood presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms is a 4e resource. That is easily the best Realm's product released in the last five years. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 06 Jun 2013 : 18:15:20
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
[...] but you think with Many Arrows being an Exarch, he would hold a stronger sway in how the clerics of grummish work.
That's what Erik is talking about. He has worked out a very intriguing scheme by which Obould could have successfully maintained stable relations with other nations in the North, giving the appearance of peace, while secretly playing the long game in terms of serving the chaotic evil ways of Gruumsh. Orcs don't have to be simple evil, anymore. They could've been complex evil, if WOTC had let them. |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 06 Jun 2013 : 17:18:34
I really don't think they are a victim of that, I think it just shows that, Many arrows was a visionary, and due to a lack of strong leadership and the various infighting that has happen, including the clerics of grummish trying to undermind what has been established. So as far as fantasy goes that is a pretty typical arch type of great 1st generation king, that is undermind and lost in further generations. It isn't huge but I think they tried to apply that, but you think with Many Arrows being an Exarch, he would hold a stronger sway in how the clerics of grummish work . |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 06 Jun 2013 : 16:21:28
Yeah, I see that passage about the Kingdom of Many-Arrows. It seems to be a victim of 4e's black-and-white, no-nuance-in-the-world skinning of things. The Many-Arrows of my campaign is much more interesting.
Cheers |
| Sightless |
Posted - 06 Jun 2013 : 15:53:40
I do like some of the things they did magic with though, especially with certain spells/ spell like abilities being able to be casted more than once a day. What I've enjoyed most though, in general has been the novels. As a general rule I have to say I like the idea that coming into concentrations of the weave can have different affects depending on an entire list of circumstances that can't be predicted. I like the mystery of it. |
| Sightless |
Posted - 06 Jun 2013 : 15:40:01
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
There are two DDI articles, that I’ve been told about that describes them as the enemy of the Silver Marches. They are also described as such in the 4e campaign guide, if I remember correctly. I can’t check that one at the moment. Being distrusted is one thing, being no longer a member of the league, and considered an enemy is another. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a big issue with 4e, there are a few things about I don't like, but that goes for every edition. I did like your Neverwinter book, yes, you didn't write all of it. This is one thing though that I brought up, because of someone else mentioning it.
I didn't interpret Many-Arrows as the "enemy of the North" in 4e, but rather that they're orcs, and thus distrusted by most of their neighbors. What gives you the impression they are "the enemy"?
Cheers
|
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 22:10:23
Yeah my level 15 group killed off the orcs,and used the remoteness of the place to make a portal and put floating earth motes. Right now where lantan useto been we now have something similar to waterworld.,a bunch of boats using tech for a city of sails. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 20:15:44
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I didn't interpret Many-Arrows as the "enemy of the North" in 4e, but rather that they're orcs, and thus distrusted by most of their neighbors. What gives you the impression they are "the enemy"?
Here's the main passage:
quote:
Enemies of Luruar include the orcs of Many-Arrows to the north, the Netherese and their puppet monsters in the eastern marches, and the nearby Underdark realms of Menzoberranzan and Gracklstugh. (bold added; FRCG {4E}, C6: p146:"Luruar")
The Many-Arrows orcs are listed right along with the Netherese, drow, and duergar as enemies of Luruar. In fact, the orcs are prominently placed first in that list.
Although, if we wanted to try to impose some sort of retcon hand-waiving rationalization onto all this, I suppose we could view this passage as merely meaning enemies of Luruar include some of the orcs, drow, and duergar, etc. 
But would it make sense thereby to qualify only some of the drow and duergar as being enemies of the North, in strained efforts to help the orcs save face?
The page on Many-Arrows refers to the orcs as "enemies" of the humans and dwarves, and refers to the seat of Many-Arrows Keep as one of many "threats".
I guess we could retcon those pasages as merely historically, traditional enemies; and Many-Arrows Keep as merely a potential threat. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 19:50:48
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Please, if you have no positive input for this particular thread, please don't add to it.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
All I have is the physically printed game books, and I've found them underwhelming, at best.
Le' Sigh 
Thank you, Markus. I was trying to indicate that while I didn't think any of the print game material was worth my personal recommendation, that I could not say whether or not the online content was worthy. I wasn't bashing anything, I was saying to look to the online resource for potential good material.
I was very careful to note that I was only speaking of the printed books, and saying something is underwhelming is not the same as being negative -- I'm reading the book Dune right now, for the first time, and while I am enjoying it, the hype I'd encountered about the book led me to expect a lot more from it than I am encountering. It is underwhelming to me -- I am enjoying it, but I am not impressed by it. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 14:18:15
For me, its hard to pin down. I can't think of anything in-particular that I wouldn't use, but I would re-spin just about everything. However, in its defense, I've done that with most of the official D&D material over the past 35 years (so my changing stuff shouldn't be blamed on the edition).
Two of my favorite bits are the Warlock Knights and the Eminence of Araunt.
I've even warmed-up to Aboleths a tiny bit, but I've merged them with the Neothelid concept (so Illithids and Aboleths are different offshoots of the same basic 'tadpole' form). Like I said, anything can be made to fit your home campaigns - it just needs a little tweakingto fit your flavor.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Please, if you have no positive input for this particular thread, please don't add to it.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
All I have is the physically printed game books, and I've found them underwhelming, at best.
Le' Sigh |
| EytanBernstein |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 17:09:36
Erik and I co-authored a couple of early 4e Realms articles.
- Channel Divinity: Champions of Torm - https://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drfe/20091116
- Eye of Justice - https://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/duad/20091019
I also had a 4e article on items from the Drizzt saga
- Bazaar of the Bizarre: Items of the Drizzt Saga - http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.aspx?x=dnd/drbaz/20100412
Keep an eye out on a future article. If it works out, it may have some Realms tidbits. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 00:19:47
I didn't interpret Many-Arrows as the "enemy of the North" in 4e, but rather that they're orcs, and thus distrusted by most of their neighbors. What gives you the impression they are "the enemy"?
Cheers |
| Sightless |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 21:29:40
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
Initially, I loved that they effectively reversed the whole situation with the orcan Kingdom of Many-Arrows, making it into an enemy of the North, once again. I couldn't buy into people letting Obould get away with what he did in 3E's "The Hunter's Blades Trilogy", no matter how much people wanted peace. Obould should've died on the end of a blade!
So there was that.
But RAS belatedly convinced me of Bruenor's mindset in calling off vengeance on Obould, and giving peace a chance per the end-stages of 3E, in the Prologue to Gauntlgrym.
So I've got to think that Bob was probably as pissed at that major change in 4E as he had been about them sacking Blingdenstone in 3E, though.  
Regardless, it will be interesting to see what effect 5E's Sundering event has on the whole Many-Arrows situation. Will the orcs remain enemies of the North, or will they endure a double-reversal and become allies, once again? 
Maybe most folks were content with just killing Ugreh, and the only you could kill Obould, and not have more wars with the orcs, is if he turned himself in. Now, why wouldn't he do that, because like it or not, and everyone seems to be of the not catagory, living Obould alive was the most rational course of events for ensuring a stable orc kingdom. What anoyes me so, is that they went the whole everything falls apart the moment he's gone, then we have a hundred civil war, with no real explanation of why it happened, or what it's real outcome was, and then it stops being allies with the Silver Marches, with no real explanation of that either. All the gaps I've tried to fill in are NC, which is why I'm reluctent to post all of it here. So, I really hope that they do something with the place, besides,
1. making it a puppit state of the Netherese;
and
2. Making it essentially a backwords enemy for the players to go out and slaughter for experience and stuff. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 15:57:01
quote:
Originally posted by Lily M Green
Now I've managed to get my virtual hands on them I'm currently lov ing Erik's Shadowbane novels. (At least two) of his protagonists have been directly, physically affected by the Spellplague and these effects play an interesting role in their stories. Also the novels do touch on historical aspects of The Realms and address certain aspects of the changes that perhaps some might not have been so keen on. Overall though they're just a really good read, the characters and plots are interesting and intriguing enough for the '4E' setting really not to matter when it comes to enjoyment of a good yarn.
Thank you for the kind words, Lady Green. I write for the spectrum of the Realms, based strongly in the history and context of the setting. Events that happened before the Spellplague are just as significant as events that happen now, and at least a few of my characters existed before and after (mostly just through being very long-lived people).
I'm also gratified people are enjoying the Neverwinter Campaign Setting, which I wrote about a third of. While there is a lot of 4e mechanical stuff woven into character construction and obviously it's intended for use with a 4e campaign, much of the actual lore and the extended character backgrounds are largely divorced from the mechanics. It's all about producing a campaign site, and you should feel free/encouraged to use whatever system you want with it.
Cheers |
| BEAST |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 06:02:36
Initially, I loved that they effectively reversed the whole situation with the orcan Kingdom of Many-Arrows, making it into an enemy of the North, once again. I couldn't buy into people letting Obould get away with what he did in 3E's "The Hunter's Blades Trilogy", no matter how much people wanted peace. Obould should've died on the end of a blade!
So there was that.
But RAS belatedly convinced me of Bruenor's mindset in calling off vengeance on Obould, and giving peace a chance per the end-stages of 3E, in the Prologue to Gauntlgrym.
So I've got to think that Bob was probably as pissed at that major change in 4E as he had been about them sacking Blingdenstone in 3E, though.
Regardless, it will be interesting to see what effect 5E's Sundering event has on the whole Many-Arrows situation. Will the orcs remain enemies of the North, or will they endure a double-reversal and become allies, once again? |
| Sightless |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 04:06:19
If I'm wrong, then please correct me. I've been told that for 4e they finally came out and siad that Gnomes were Feyan. If that's true, then they should stay that way. I mean, they are cold Gnomes after all. |
| Lily M Green |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 03:58:58
Now I've managed to get my virtual hands on them I'm currently lov ing Erik's Shadowbane novels. (At least two) of his protagonists have been directly, physically affected by the Spellplague and these effects play an interesting role in their stories. Also the novels do touch on historical aspects of The Realms and address certain aspects of the changes that perhaps some might not have been so keen on. Overall though they're just a really good read, the characters and plots are interesting and intriguing enough for the '4E' setting really not to matter when it comes to enjoyment of a good yarn. EDIT: That said, however, reading what Aldrick says about the Neverwinter Campaign setting I'd certainly suggest reading them for added flavour of places like Luskan if you're planning to run a campaign in that area and visit the cities. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 02 Jun 2013 : 07:11:50
The Neverwinter book is a really good purchase for Realms lore and information of the North, including other spots such as Helms Hold. The Shadowfell: Gloomwrought and Beyond was also a pretty interesting product too. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Jun 2013 : 04:56:16
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
All I have is the physically printed game books, and I've found them underwhelming, at best.
ive only heard good things about that product too, as well as comments that much of it is due to it being written very close to how 5e materials will now be handled.
Weird did you edit that while I was quoting it Wooly? I thought you said something a out never winter being de net I think and that's what my comment referred to
Nope. Others have praised that supplement. I am not among their numbers. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 01 Jun 2013 : 19:45:08
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
All I have is the physically printed game books, and I've found them underwhelming, at best.
ive only heard good things about that product too, as well as comments that much of it is due to it being written very close to how 5e materials will now be handled.
Weird did you edit that while I was quoting it Wooly? I thought you said something a out never winter being de net I think and that's what my comment referred to |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 01 Jun 2013 : 18:57:23
Thanks, I've gotten a few good ideas from this. I have been reading some of the novels (the Elminster and Brotherhood of the Griffon ones), it sounds like the Neverwinter Campaign Setting may be worth the money. The first Cormyr article would be of interest since the government structure has changed. I've been reading the Greenwood articles as Sage posts that they're available. I'd heard that a lot of expansion was done with the feywild, and I'd like to look into that, any FR specific reference works? Same question for the plane of shadow (I forget what its now called). |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 01 Jun 2013 : 12:26:31
There are some very good novels set in 4e including Richard Lee Byers Brotherhood of the Griffon, the Brimstone angels series and if you want something that is a bit different from the regular realms fare I recommend you try out Chosen of Nendawen series. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Jun 2013 : 05:30:34
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
All I have is the physically printed game books, and I've found them underwhelming, at best.
ive only heard good things about that product too, as well as comments that much of it is due to it being written very close to how 5e materials will now be handled.
I'm not sure that you were quoting the right person, there, since I referred to no specific products... |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 01 Jun 2013 : 02:27:54
the wilds books are very good also , very good varity from the average fr good. |
| Captain Grafalcon |
Posted - 01 Jun 2013 : 02:16:33
quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
If you're looking for novels, you can't go wrong with Richard Lee Byers' Brotherhood of the Griffon. If you go with the Neverwinter stuff, read Erin Evans' Brimstone Angels series. I haven't read the second book, but the first gives you a good look at the factions operating in the city Neverwinter. While its part of the Transitions series, Salvatore's The Pirate King is also worth a read. One of Salvatore's finest Realms novels since The Sellswords.
Good Point, ignoring the love/hate perceptions of 4e, some novel series rekindled with new plots and twists derivating from the spellplague, like the Abolethic Sovereignty trilogy, or even the Transitions books. The Spellplague brought adversity,and that is excellent to any story! |
| Aldrick |
Posted - 01 Jun 2013 : 01:30:04
I can't speak to WotC's online thing as I don't subscribe, but...
If someone came to me and asked, "I want to get into the Forgotten Realms, and want to use the newest edition; what books should I buy?"
My response would be to ignore most of the books and go and purchase the Neverwinter Campaign Setting. As the title suggests it's a complete campaign setting, and it's set in the area just north of Waterdeep and south of Luskan. The focus is, of course, Neverwinter.
It's a very good book that has tons of interesting plot hooks, and the idea of turning a region of the Realms like that into an independent campaign setting was a good idea I think. Personally, I think it makes it VERY easy for a novice DM who knows next to nothing about the Realms to slip into the setting and then gradually expand outward at their leisure. I also think it helped alleviate the feeling that some people expressed about the Realms feeling "overwhelming".
Finally, reading the book gave tons of ideas for campaigns and adventures in the region.
My only serious complaint is that it is tied into the 4E Rules (which shouldn't be surprising really).
One thing I really liked, and felt was good was the character themes - which were basically pre-built loosely defined backgrounds.
For example, you could play a Harper Agent who has been sent to Neverwinter to oppose the aims of the Open Lord of Waterdeep. You were assigned to work with an experienced Harper Agent on an important mission to prove that you deserve your Harper Pin. However, in the process of this mission unfolding you were betrayed - seemingly by your more experienced Harper Agent, who now lays dead. With the mission gone sour, and rumors of the failure being a result of an "inside job" suspicion is being cast on you. There are not many other Harpers left in Neverwinter, and you're effectively a rogue agent. You are now trying to uncover the truth about what happened, potentially unearthing more rogue Harpers, as well as striving to continue covertly opposing the plans of the Open Lord of Waterdeep.
These are really good ways to hook new players, and even experienced players, into the setting very quickly. The backgrounds are also designed in such a way to provide conflict that is relevant for the region, which gives the DM a lot to work with.
So, as a new DM and new players to the Realms - maybe even to D&D - all you really need are the 4th Edition rule books and this book to get into the Realms. You discuss the region and its feel with the players so they get a general idea of what they're going to be experiencing, then everyone selects a character theme that is most interesting to them, which in turn anchors them to the setting... then go!
There are tons of interesting campaigns to be run in the region, and like with many of the older editions of FR books - particularly 2E Books - the adventure hooks jump off the page. As you read the book you -WANT- to game in this region, and the more you read the more excited to explore it you become as your mind becomes filled with awesome ideas.
There are -SOME- good ideas in the 4th Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide. For example, the changes to Vaasa with the Warlock Knights is a positive change that makes the region much more interesting than it was previously. It makes you want to set a campaign in the Bloodstone Lands, to explore events taking place there.
The continent of Laerakond (known as Returned Abeir - the landmass that replaced Maztica) is also a very interesting addition to the setting. It actually fits much better in the Realms than Maztica did, and the feel of it is actually more familiar than parts of the mainland. This probably isn't shocking, because I heard Ed designed it.
Someone who hated 4th Edition and the changes made to Faerun might find themselves enjoying exploring Laerakond instead - since it's new, and doesn't really have the same baggage as a lot of the changes made to the more core setting. You could run it as its own independent campaign setting, ignoring the mainland entirely.
Even if a DM had no desire to use 4th Edition FR, they could still take Laerakond and move it into their Realms - say placing it where Osse is located, since Osse has no details. Then they could just drop the whole Abeir thing all together, and pretend that it always existed. This would only require a few minor changes to the lore.
A handful of other changes to the setting are also interesting, which I think improved some regions - or at least my desire to explore them further. I'm mostly keeping them in my Realms with a few tweaks.
In short the 4E FRCG is decent for mining some useful ideas, but probably isn't something most DM's with a past history of the Realms would want to adopt wholesale. Those who are new to the setting should pick up the Neverwinter Campaign Setting instead, though having access to the FRCG and FR Player's Guide is also very useful. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 01 Jun 2013 : 01:10:01
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
All I have is the physically printed game books, and I've found them underwhelming, at best.
ive only heard good things about that product too, as well as comments that much of it is due to it being written very close to how 5e materials will now be handled. |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 01 Jun 2013 : 00:43:32
As Diffan said: Eye on the Realms is awesome.
I'll add that the majority of the Eye articles could apply to the Realms pre-Spellplague. This for me was confirmed after reading Elminster's Forgotten Realms.
I've only read the latest trio of Elminster books and I enjoyed them and would recommend them.
The Neverwinter Campaing Setting was a great book too. I got a lot of miles out of it in terms of inspiration for writing a homebrew Current Clack for Neverwinter after the volcano went off, as well as some NPCs.
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